Guild Wars 2

Hi everybody,

In my opinion…

Classic WvW is server based & is the Alpine Map.

New WvW is megaserver based & is the Desert BL or EotM Map.

I could be totally wrong…so read at your own risk.

ANet tried to change Classic WvW by adding Desert BL to the formula.

Classic WvW players tried it…and didn’t like the Taste of New WvW.

In Fact…Classic WvW players quit playing Desert BL, or went to play in EBattle Map that tasted more like Classic WvW.

Some players suprisingly liked the taste of New WvW & actually play in Desert BL wondering why nobody else likes the great new taste.

ANet should consider putting back Classic WvW on the shelf & Stocking New WvW in a Beta mode until more players acquire a taste for it.

Then there will be two types of consumers willing to buy this WvW game mode. One that likes Classic WvW & the other that likes New WvW.

If we wait too long…Classic WvW consumers will wander away & may never come back because they’re really looking for their Classic WvW fix, but can’t get it anymore.

In the end…the Classic WvW consumers will find something to replace their craving.

You’ll have to work extra hard to grow the consumers that like your New WvW…which taste really great to them.

This is one way to view your players.

Consumers of Classic WvW & New WvW.

I’d suggest reading up on what Coca-Cola did when faced with a similar dilema.

Think carefully…

Analyze the WvW population statistics, but get in the game & play yourself to see how many players really are playing.

Pick to play in all the Tiers…not just the Top Tier…where it’s expected to be full & exciting.

Statistics might show high number of players going to WvW, but they might be going to visit the Mystic Forge, Craft Vendor, and Trader as a nice stop before going back to PvE…or just doing their Daily then logging off.

I could be totally wrong…and all this comparison is outright crazy.

I’m a huge fan of Classic WvW in case you’re wondering & I play in NA Tier 6…so this post is pretty biased. So read at your own risk.

Yours truly,
Diku

p.s.
Please Reboot the Base Map Mechanic & Population. Please fix the chronic server stacking, population in-balances, not being able to play with friends & family on different servers, and off-peak capping that the current Base Map Mechanic perpetuates.

I like the name Classic WvWvW. It perfectly summarizes what many players want. Almost every WvWvW player I know wants the original maps back. Some stopped playing because of drastic changes, which alienated the core gamers. Some only play in Eternal Battlegrounds, since that is the only remaining map, which offers gaming experience which is at least similar to the original experience.

For comparison: Counter-Strike (CS) was first released in 1999 as Half Life 2 mod. In over 15 years CS remained surprisingly faithful to the original and still gathers very wide gaming audience. I don’t even want to draw comparisons how many views CS:GO youtube videos and Twitch streams get compared to GW2 videos. Despite fierce competition in FPS genre, CS continues to be popular.

In over 15 years the gamers haven’t grown tired of the CS maps. Most of the new CS maps are not full of gimmicks, but follow the proven keep it simple stupid (KISS) formula of the original maps. I know there are several CS games: 1.6, source, Global Offensive, but nevertheless they play more or less the same. If Valve would have done Arenanet and replaced the beloved CS maps with a massive map, which is full of pve events (shrines, oasis), overbuffed NPCs and takes long time to find any enemies, I am sure CS would have lost major share of players and the rage would have been massive.

Arenanet has simply went too far with the new mechanics and maps they have released since launch in Autumn 2012. Bazaar of the Four Winds in July 2013. That was the 1st pve map with increased verticality and gimmick mechanics. Traversing was made into the primary challenge instead of defeating smarter and thougher enemies. Now HoT pve maps have both and I like the latter, but not the former. Since the Bazaaer map we have had lots of other maps with similar design: Dry Top (pve), Skyhammer (spvp), Edge of the Mists (“WvWvW”) and Heart of Thorns (pve) and the new Desert Borderlands (“WvWvW”).
Skyhammer, EotM and Desert BL have all met with lots of criticism from player. There was lots of good feedback from the Desert BL beta, but Arenanet developers chose to ignore those very valid concerns. Now there is no denying, the WvWvW player base has diminished.

I am playing Desolation, EU rank 1 server. You might think we are stacked to the brink. Last time when I was raiding prime time with my guild we had the outnumbered “buff” on us. Enemy server had much bigger blob (we had 13, enemy had around 40). We still managed to get some objectives. We changed to another borderland, once again outnumbered “buff”. Usually there is NO queue to any map. The EBG queue is often bugged. E.g. yesterday it showed “queue”, but when I clicked it, I got instantly in and we had (you can guess…) outnumbered “buff” in EBG. This is NOT a healthy situation. EU rank 1 should much more players. I can just barely imagine how empty the other EU servers are outside their busy hours.

Now almost every single new map seems to follow this formula:
- lots of verticality, very much 3D
- difficult to learn, difficult to traverse ( = horrible for newbies! recipe for shrinking player base!)
- emphasis on mini games (as if the game designers don’t think the main game is enough e.g. adventures on the HoT pve maps).

I am totally fine of some pve maps having these features, but Arenanet please do NOT force all gamers into just “one design”, which is very different from the original. One of the best game producers of Finland once told me a very good advice, which I tell to my game design students: “Often gamers want more of the same”. In other words, they don’t want drastically different content, but more and more similar content. This is true for all entertainment from films to music, games to books. That is why sequels are so profitable business. If you can make the sequels similar enough to the original you will be financially successful, despite some critics might complain “doesn’t add enough to the original formula” (what critics like and what sells is another story).

If you read about the New Coke fiasco, you’ll note that Coca-Cola actually realized there was a problem and acted on it really fast.

It doesn’t seem like that’s going to be the case here.

Deniara Devious.3948:

I like the name Classic WvWvW. It perfectly summarizes what many players want. Almost every WvWvW player I know wants the original maps back. Some stopped playing because of drastic changes, which alienated the core gamers. Some only play in Eternal Battlegrounds, since that is the only remaining map, which offers gaming experience which is at least similar to the original experience.

For comparison: Counter-Strike (CS) was first released in 1999 as Half Life 2 mod. In over 15 years CS remained surprisingly faithful to the original and still gathers very wide gaming audience. I don’t even want to draw comparisons how many views CS:GO youtube videos and Twitch streams get compared to GW2 videos. Despite fierce competition in FPS genre, CS continues to be popular.

In over 15 years the gamers haven’t grown tired of the CS maps. Most of the new CS maps are not full of gimmicks, but follow the proven keep it simple stupid (KISS) formula of the original maps. I know there are several CS games: 1.6, source, Global Offensive, but nevertheless they play more or less the same. If Valve would have done Arenanet and replaced the beloved CS maps with a massive map, which is full of pve events (shrines, oasis), overbuffed NPCs and takes long time to find any enemies, I am sure CS would have lost major share of players and the rage would have been massive.

Arenanet has simply went too far with the new mechanics and maps they have released since launch in Autumn 2012. Bazaar of the Four Winds in July 2013. That was the 1st pve map with increased verticality and gimmick mechanics. Traversing was made into the primary challenge instead of defeating smarter and thougher enemies. Now HoT pve maps have both and I like the latter, but not the former. Since the Bazaaer map we have had lots of other maps with similar design: Dry Top (pve), Skyhammer (spvp), Edge of the Mists (“WvWvW”) and Heart of Thorns (pve) and the new Desert Borderlands (“WvWvW”).
Skyhammer, EotM and Desert BL have all met with lots of criticism from player. There was lots of good feedback from the Desert BL beta, but Arenanet developers chose to ignore those very valid concerns. Now there is no denying, the WvWvW player base has diminished.

I am playing Desolation, EU rank 1 server. You might think we are stacked to the brink. Last time when I was raiding prime time with my guild we had the outnumbered “buff” on us. Enemy server had much bigger blob (we had 13, enemy had around 40). We still managed to get some objectives. We changed to another borderland, once again outnumbered “buff”. Usually there is NO queue to any map. The EBG queue is often bugged. E.g. yesterday it showed “queue”, but when I clicked it, I got instantly in and we had (you can guess…) outnumbered “buff” in EBG. This is NOT a healthy situation. EU rank 1 should much more players. I can just barely imagine how empty the other EU servers are outside their busy hours.

Now almost every single new map seems to follow this formula:
- lots of verticality, very much 3D
- difficult to learn, difficult to traverse ( = horrible for newbies! recipe for shrinking player base!)
- emphasis on mini games (as if the game designers don’t think the main game is enough e.g. adventures on the HoT pve maps).

I am totally fine of some pve maps having these features, but Arenanet please do NOT force all gamers into just “one design”, which is very different from the original. One of the best game producers of Finland once told me a very good advice, which I tell to my game design students: “Often gamers want more of the same”. In other words, they don’t want drastically different content, but more and more similar content. This is true for all entertainment from films to music, games to books. That is why sequels are so profitable business. If you can make the sequels similar enough to the original you will be financially successful, despite some critics might complain “doesn’t add enough to the original formula” (what critics like and what sells is another story).

Yup… Sums it up.

@Lord Kuru

Yes, Coca-Cola did the right thing in putting back Classic Coke.

It allowed them to sell 2 products in the end…giving them more market share & taking back a portion of the consumers that liked the sweeter Pepsi.

That’s the reason behind this topic.

I’m keeping it positive in nature to alert ANet about the changes they’re doing is very very similar to the Classic Coke & New Coke case study.

We can only hope that ANet becomes our Coca-Cola on this Classic Coke & New Coke dilemma that we’re having in WvW.

Yours truly,
Diku

Still having a hard time to swallow the taste of New WvW that uses Megaserver/Alliance & will probably use the New Desert BL.

I miss the taste of Classic WvW.

I can remember the thrill of running from Citadel to save Bay.

Running through Ruins knowing I might get jumped as I race to recapture the southern camps in an effort to stop the flow of supplies being used to fuel the capture of the southern towers.

I think many us are playing in EB because that’s the closest we can get to tasting the Classic WvW we’re so used to.

Right now in my tier all 4 maps are green and fully upgraded. Taking a fully upgraded structure takes so long that green has all the time in the world to come to defend it. So red and blue just dont bother and dont show up anymore. Autoupgrade is ruining everything. I want my classic wvw back :-(

Diku.2546:

p.s.
Please Reboot the Base Map Mechanic & Population. Please fix the chronic server stacking, population in-balances, not being able to play with friends & family on different servers, and off-peak capping that the current Base Map Mechanic perpetuates.

Server stacking is the solution to population imbalances within a tier, the solution to playing with friends and family, and the solution to off peak capping.

As much as i would liek to supportall these great ideas and solutions that the community has come up with I’m afraid we’re flogging a dead horse.

Anet will do what Anet wants and it’s as simple as that, I’m already looking for a new RvR gamemode in an MMO to play but they are all so bland with very boring combat that involves sieging for over half a day with huge ability cast times.

I honestly think Anet are actually being maliscious at this point with thier complete lack of involvement with the WvW community, thier consistant dismissal and ignoring of solid ideas from people who acutally play the game mode. They have to make a conscious disiscion to do what they do because it can’t be by accident they do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what we want every time.

I am amazed that no company hasn’t carbon copied Gw2 WvW with it’s class mechanics, maps, siege and combat etc because if they did and they listened to the community and did as we asked WvW would be only played by people wanting to level in Gw2. I would even be happy to pay a small sub if it meant i get a high qaulity version of Anets WvW because Anets WvW is no longer a quality product.

WvW is dead, long live WvW.

GROMIT.7829:

I am amazed that no company hasn’t carbon copied Gw2 WvW with it’s class mechanics, maps, siege and combat etc because if they did and they listened to the community and did as we asked WvW would be only played by people wanting to level in Gw2. I would even be happy to pay a small sub if it meant i get a high qaulity version of Anets WvW because Anets WvW is no longer a quality product.

WvW is dead, long live WvW.

If you find one, let me know.

Gonna miss you Grommie.

Jayne.9251:

GROMIT.7829:

I am amazed that no company hasn’t carbon copied Gw2 WvW with it’s class mechanics, maps, siege and combat etc because if they did and they listened to the community and did as we asked WvW would be only played by people wanting to level in Gw2. I would even be happy to pay a small sub if it meant i get a high qaulity version of Anets WvW because Anets WvW is no longer a quality product.

WvW is dead, long live WvW.

If you find one, let me know.

Gonna miss you Grommie.

Yeah gonna miss you to Bamby and gonna miss Piken when i do finally loose my temper and leave the game, Piken has become an awesome place to be, apart from Ash guild it’s porbably the best community around, lost of fun, jokes and even some touchy feeling hippy crap.

@GROMIT

I’m gonna miss the strong emotional ties that World Servers nurtured too.

I remember many battles where folks would rally for our Home Server…fighting in the name & honor of your Home Server.

We had our Warcry…won’t be sounding it here…out of respect for other Home Servers…who also probably have their own Warcry as you went into battle…but it was really fun to share that kind of camaraderie.

Your’s truly,
Diku

Classic WvW PUG Commander

My tag grows dimmer and flies less often, but I’ll continue to struggle to remember & re-live the Old Classic WvW of yore…for the sake of all my Home World brothers & sisters that will leave me…to find their Classic WvW fix elsewhere…till one day…I too will leave.

If you can…please continue asking ANet in a positive way…that we miss & want our Classic WvW back on the shelves.

If ANet fails that…then as a Classic WvW Consumer…I’ll have to find my fix somewhere else, but in the mean time…keep asking for our Classic WvW.

Deep in the feels bros.

Best fights were had on home borders with epic defenses of hills, garri or bay. I remeber one fight with AR and BB lasted 6 hours in Garrison with my guild EXE and another guild ONYX, ONYX played thier god kitten hearts out as they aren’t seen as a good fighting guild but crist they they pulled some serious determination out of nowhere and my guild just broke out the loot sticks and went to town, each of our 20 man groups were busting blobs inside a Garrison turned to swiss cheese with supply or siege.

Now we’re just stuck in EB coz no objective have any personal worth, even the scouts who tell us Garri is sieged now don’t care, they only come in to tell us as a courtesy to see if we want loot.

Only one server i see doing good out of this and this is a predictioni made months ago was Baruch Bay because of thier guilds running 15-20 men at all times in 1 or 2 groups and sometiems up to 4-5 groups which no server can competewith in terms of coverage, now they’ll be the first to admit at how terrible at fighting they are but because of the social dynamic within thier server they are rising to top spot.

Our server and many others can’t break this mentality and Anet will do nothing either.

WvW is dead, long live WvW.

GROMIT.7829:

Only one server i see doing good out of this and this is a predictioni made months ago was Baruch Bay because of thier guilds running 15-20 men at all times in 1 or 2 groups and sometiems up to 4-5 groups which no server can competewith in terms of coverage, now they’ll be the first to admit at how terrible at fighting they are but because of the social dynamic within thier server they are rising to top spot.

Baruch Bay (BB) is rising up, but don’t underestimate Desolation. We might intentionally tank at some point to get more varied match ups, but current our strategy seems to work great point wise. There has been lack of competition and it is actually good to get real challenge. We often have very small teams: 1-3 players capturing everything from camps to towers and keeps. Surely so small groups cannot match BB’s 15-20 player groups and we will probably once again have outnumbered “buff” on 3/4 maps, but eventually they will log off.

On my server outside prime time it was me and 2-3 guys trying to play EB with a lot of frustration for the last 2 weeks (from 3 total that i played). I am tired of playing 3 vs 30 seriously I wanted to change server but I don’t want to leave the friends i made here. I feel like a I drive a sport car with pedals.

GROMIT.7829:

As much as i would liek to supportall these great ideas and solutions that the community has come up with I’m afraid we’re flogging a dead horse.

Anet will do what Anet wants and it’s as simple as that, I’m already looking for a new RvR gamemode in an MMO to play but they are all so bland with very boring combat that involves sieging for over half a day with huge ability cast times.

I honestly think Anet are actually being maliscious at this point with thier complete lack of involvement with the WvW community, thier consistant dismissal and ignoring of solid ideas from people who acutally play the game mode. They have to make a conscious disiscion to do what they do because it can’t be by accident they do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what we want every time.

I am amazed that no company hasn’t carbon copied Gw2 WvW with it’s class mechanics, maps, siege and combat etc because if they did and they listened to the community and did as we asked WvW would be only played by people wanting to level in Gw2. I would even be happy to pay a small sub if it meant i get a high qaulity version of Anets WvW because Anets WvW is no longer a quality product.

WvW is dead, long live WvW.

This so much.

I’d like to teach…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib-Qiyklq-Q

Classic WvW

Get rid of the Current Tier Based system & replace it with a Globe based system.

Keep it Server based & bring back the Alpine Maps.

GROMIT.7829:

As much as i would liek to supportall these great ideas and solutions that the community has come up with I’m afraid we’re flogging a dead horse.

Anet will do what Anet wants and it’s as simple as that, I’m already looking for a new RvR gamemode in an MMO to play but they are all so bland with very boring combat that involves sieging for over half a day with huge ability cast times.

I honestly think Anet are actually being maliscious at this point with thier complete lack of involvement with the WvW community, thier consistant dismissal and ignoring of solid ideas from people who acutally play the game mode. They have to make a conscious disiscion to do what they do because it can’t be by accident they do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what we want every time.

I am amazed that no company hasn’t carbon copied Gw2 WvW with it’s class mechanics, maps, siege and combat etc because if they did and they listened to the community and did as we asked WvW would be only played by people wanting to level in Gw2. I would even be happy to pay a small sub if it meant i get a high qaulity version of Anets WvW because Anets WvW is no longer a quality product.

WvW is dead, long live WvW.

“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”

-Hanlon’s Razor

@Pretty Pixie

Hmmm…even Coca-Cola made a big mistake.

Chief operating officer and a director of The Coca-Cola Company.

Donald Keough at a press conference. “The simple fact is that all the time and money and skill poured into consumer research on the new Coca-Cola could not measure or reveal the deep and abiding emotional attachment to original Coca-Cola felt by so many people.”

Coca-Cola quickly corrected their New Coke fiasco less than 3 months after New Coke’s introduction & responded to their customer’s feedback & had Classic Coke re-stocking the shelves.

Time is ticking…and I’m hoping ANet does a Coca-Cola re-stock of Classic WvW.

ANet can say they were testing the New Desert BL, but decided that the Old Alpine BL will be put back temporarily to allow the New Desert BL to be brought into maintenance mode to make changes to improve WvW mechanics.