Coalescence of Ruin and WvW/GvG

Coalescence of Ruin and WvW/GvG

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Posted by: aB EXT.1287

aB EXT.1287

Despite the fact that ArenaNet have now stated that there will be no more balance passes until early 2016, I am compelled to at least share the thoughts of many dedicated WvW players – and try to explain why exactly this is such a big issue.

Since release, there have always been ‘mandatory’ professions/specs. The GWEN meta was established quite early as each profession showed true value and we all more-or-less accepted it; this sort of thing is inevitable in any ‘competitive’ game, as people will always figure out the most effective way to play. Fast forward 3 years and the Revenant class was introduced with the HoT expansion, promising very strong party support through boon sharing and boon extension. It had a rocky journey through the betas, with developers trying to make the class feel good to play, the result being largely well received by all aspects of the GW2 game mode trinity (PvE/sPvP/WvW). It could grab a fair spot in any game mode because it had the tools necessary to be competitive, which was fantastic… until people discovered just how strong it could be in WvW. Despite having some terrain bugs (as many skills currently do, still) people discovered the unparalleled damage pressure of Coalescence of Ruin (hammer skill #2) and how quickly it could turn a fight, especially if stacked. This is not to say that skill becomes irrelevant, it just becomes less relevant. Even at the top levels of GvG, people have accepted that the team with the most Revenants has a very clear advantage (again, not taking skill into account) and have begun stacking them for that very reason.

Let me just stress this point in its own paragraph:

The team with the most Revenants has an advantage due to one single weapon skill. Not a mechanic, but a weapon skill.

CoR is hands-down the most effective damage ability in WvW/GvG. It has 1200~ range, very high base AOE damage and coefficients, intense trait synergy with damage modifiers/perks, and a short enough cast/animation time that it can’t be dodged effectively in large scale (not to mention texture bugs that cause it to not show at all and LOD trimming which makes it nearly impossible to see coming anyway) – all on a 2s cooldown; 2 whole seconds. It also still bugs occasionally, triggering a double-tag hit. On top of all of this it is not static and can not be reflected. Anyone who is investing in organized WvW play will understand just how important these last two points are as they are crucial aspects of counterplay.

So we have a new king in town, what’s the big deal, right? Well here’s the thing… balance is very delicate in large scale combat. One of the main things keeping GvG style combat competitive was that the main sources of damage were ground targeted, static AOE spells. This meant that a good team could make judgments about when to attack and when to retreat. In order to secure kills, you frequently needed to combine these attacks with crowd control in order to land enough damage to down a target. These abilities were also on long CDs (30-60s~), meaning that there were periods of time during which a team could tactically engage in melee combat without fear of constant, massive AOE counter spikes.

So how have things changed? There is no longer a safe time to make tactical plays. CoR can do all of, if not more damage than these previous damage spikes – all upfront and on a 2s CD. Regardless of what you do, you will be bombarded with (occasionally unblock-able, +50% damage) 6-15k CoR crits every 1 or 2s. Depending on how many Revenants are on the field on either side, this is instant death if you are caught by 1, 2 or 3 (depends on your current and total health) at the same time, or in rapid succession. Several classes can not achieve safe EHP values to survive even one of these (without neutering themselves), as the chances of being at 100% health in a fight are very low and short lived. This has resulted in a worst-case scenario… Rally Wars 2. All you have to do is look at any of the top level guild streams, and you will see that people are going down left and right – the winner being crowned because they finished off downed targets the fastest, rallying all of their downed teammates (provided they got a tag on the target). Granted, this has always been a thing but not to the horrendous degree it is now. It doesn’t matter what you do, there is always a risk that every 2s you will die instantly because you happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, which is usually entirely out of your control due to the directional nature of the ability.

It doesn’t take a genius to see why this is so bad for the game mode, and I’m sure everyone has experienced it to varying degrees by now. We know that the hammer doesn’t get any action in PvE and sPvP metas, and it is only in WvW that this is a problem – but it is a huge problem that needs to be addressed. It is worth noting that it has always been the case that certain weapons see more action in specific areas of the game, and right now Hammer is dominating WvW largely due to this ability, but is underused in PvE and sPvP metas. While this is problematic for those who enjoy the hammer and wish to shoe-horn it into other game modes, this is a reality that every class faces. I urge you (devs) to take a very serious look at Coalescence of Ruin during the next three months and consider a solution that will keep the game mode fun and competitive without destroying the weapon set. The Revenant is a fantastic addition to all game modes, and does not need this one over-tuned ability to be viable, especially when it is having such a dramatic effect on a specific part of the community.

In closing, I would like to share with you some of the ideas being thrown around on the related reddit thread (https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3v4x4h/coalescence_of_ruin_is_sending_destructive/). I do not claim personal credit for these suggestions, and would like to thank everyone who chimed in on the discussion and contributed various points of interest. I am not personally advocating any of these as concrete solutions, nor am I claiming that all of these should be implemented in bulk, I am simply providing the more reasonable feedback from the community related specifically to WvW.

- Address the traited damage mods on traits such as Cruel Repercussion and the impact they have on CoR. This specific trait alone is a huge problem when combined with CoR in WvW where blocks are frequent, resulting in (un)lucky potshots or completely unpredictable damage bursts. It is currently very easy to stack multiple high +damage mods.

- Switch the damage pulses so that the higher damage is in close range (where it is less likely to do massive amounts of damage) and the damage tails off on targets farther away. This is not a completely alien concept for ranged weapons in GW2 (e.g. Mesmer GS #2, Mirror Blade). This means that you must take a risk to reap the rewards of such a powerful attack instead of sitting back and casually downing back-line with a huge damage pulse that may more may not have been intentional.

- (BUG) Acknowledge and fix the AOE multi-pulse and double-tagging that has been present since beta.

- Increase the CD or energy cost so there is a bigger gap between its use, or doing massive damage spikes comes at a significant resource cost.

- Make CoR reflectable/stoppable by projectile blockers in the same way that some other ground trail attacks are (e.g. staff Elementalist earth #5, Shock Wave). This alone opens up significant counter-play options.

- Give it a much clearer animation/texture so that it is more visible over spell noise and look into how effect LOD prioritizes spells, as running with it off is not an option for many people due to the immense performance cost.

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Posted by: funassistant.6589

funassistant.6589

More like “Coalescence OF RUINED GW2 DELETE THIS”

Team Africa [TA]
European Overlord

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Posted by: BassHunteR.7246

BassHunteR.7246

I rerolled rev from warrior.. im using CoF gear and i run around wvw doing up to 8k aoe damage…
Its funny how ANET thinks.
Skill is broken as kitten.. but they leave it like that until they have have a full balance patch ready..
Cause it would be caring to much to just balance a single skill that is broken like this

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Posted by: Oak da Vite.9054

Oak da Vite.9054

Well, they do it for rangers. Without a blink. Even without trying it out. Announced by staff members that are not even responsible for the class (funny sidefact: person announcing the change on twitter is responsible for revenant).

Da Vite – Miller’s Sound
Last Phoenix [Nix]

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Posted by: vespers.1759

vespers.1759

Well, they do it for rangers. Without a blink. Even without trying it out. Announced by staff members that are not even responsible for the class (funny sidefact: person announcing the change on twitter is responsible for revenant).

This. They’re too busy giving druid a nerf every second day to bother with any of the other classes.

Bristleback can’t hit anything? Let’s fix the HP bug instead.

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Posted by: BassHunteR.7246

BassHunteR.7246

Well.. at least druid is on a spot that it can be nerfed and still be viable with some builds…
Now think about warrior.. there isnt much left to nerf on it.. it is already on a state that it is pretty depressing to play on wvw and that you hurt your team more then you help on spvp

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Posted by: DanAlcedo.3281

DanAlcedo.3281

Time for some stupid math!

Lets asume we take a rev and a ele with 4000 power.
They have no traits ( only the ele has pyro training).
We asume all possible hits to hit something.

We look now at the tool tip dmg.

CoR:
2052 low hit x5
2873 mid hit x5
3694 high hit x5

this is 43095 tool tip dmg.

Lets look at Ele Meteor Shower:

2347 tool tip dmg x 24 meteors each hits 3 targets.

this is : 168984 dmg

Meteor Shower ist better right?
But is has a 20 sek cd!

Lets look on the dmg per cooldown second.
CoR = 43095 / 2 = 21547 dmg
MS =168984/20 = 8449 dmg
Icebow=51048 dmg/20 = 2552 dmg

I think something is wrong here….

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Posted by: Naithe.4271

Naithe.4271

I run a now semi (due to people leaving the game) large guild in tier 1. Signed, signed and signed again. Please nerf this ability. If you want everyone to play revenants, keep this as it is. If you want everyone else to quit playing, just go ahead and keep this as it is.

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Posted by: ima kong fu ninja.3052

ima kong fu ninja.3052

+1, I say increase the CD to 6-8 seconds and reduce the damage by 40-50%, keep the energy level the same.

(edited by ima kong fu ninja.3052)

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Posted by: Sarika.3756

Sarika.3756

Absolutely signed, from another T1 GL and commander.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Yup. It’s pretty stupid and is really destructive to the format right now in its already-problematic state of weakness and concern.

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Posted by: Junkpile.7439

Junkpile.7439

Well to be fair you blob and try to soak aoe dmg and COR just make you pay.

Low quality trolling since launch
Seafarer’s Rest EotM grinch

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Posted by: Sviel.7493

Sviel.7493

COR is a pain in small fights too. If even one or two lands, the fight is basically over for anyone that isn’t a condi bunker build.

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

Time for some stupid math!

Meteor Shower ist better right?
But is has a 20 sek cd!

Lets look on the dmg per cooldown second.
CoR = 43095 / 2 = 21547 dmg
MS =168984/20 = 8449 dmg
Icebow=51048 dmg/20 = 2552 dmg

I think something is wrong here….

CoR is more spammable, not channeled, doesn’t root the caster for a prolonged period and has a very minimal pre-cast. MS is sloooooow and on a class/build with low armor/hp pool.

CoR as shown by your math is horribly busted.

Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”

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Posted by: Telemin.7380

Telemin.7380

I dont see a problem with CoR Damage. To me, the real problem is the 2 second cooldown. Set to to auto attack and win.

Teh Ouchies

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Posted by: Infusion.7149

Infusion.7149

It could use a change to more recharge (5-6 seconds?). Two recharge is essentially an autoattack given the activation time. The real problem occurs when you have multiple CoRs rip through your back line. It singlehandedly removes aegis also.

Another alternative is to change it so that the first and second strike are smaller range. Maybe strike 1 =300, strike 2 = 600, final strike = 1200 range. Right now the largest damage is the third strike.

The damage needs to be examined since melee range needs to do more damage or more often than this revenant 1,200 range skill. Sometimes I hear teammates got hit for 15k from CoR on a front liner. This isn’t a Berserker primal burst.

Desolation (EU) → Yak’s Bend (US)
In your backline: Elementalist+Mesmer+Necromancer

(edited by Infusion.7149)

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Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

I approve of this message.

Team Deathmatch for PvP – Raise the AoE cap for WvW – More unique events for PvE

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Posted by: Terrahero.9358

Terrahero.9358

Herald in particular is such a dumb spec. It takes very little cognitive function to play, activate passive perma-Fury for a traited +40% crit chance, activate passive 8 stacks of might, and just go to town.

Weapon skills barely use any energy, so that regen of 1 is more than sufficient to keep using the powerful AA, and the overpowered CoR. Just kick back and watch the guarenteed 7k crits roll in.

It’s not the only overpowered specialization mind you. For some reason anet had this weird fascination of giving elite specs very powerful, low cooldown, abilities on their new weapons. Dragonhunter’s Trueshot is bs as well, and i cannot believe they thought it was balanced to pack that much burst, cc, mobility and stealth into one neat little package called the Chronomancer.

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Posted by: Tankvieh.5796

Tankvieh.5796

Time for some stupid math!

Lets asume we take a rev and a ele with 4000 power.
They have no traits ( only the ele has pyro training).
We asume all possible hits to hit something.

We look now at the tool tip dmg.

CoR:
2052 low hit x5
2873 mid hit x5
3694 high hit x5

this is 43095 tool tip dmg.

Lets look at Ele Meteor Shower:

2347 tool tip dmg x 24 meteors each hits 3 targets.

this is : 168984 dmg

Meteor Shower ist better right?
But is has a 20 sek cd!

Lets look on the dmg per cooldown second.
CoR = 43095 / 2 = 21547 dmg
MS =168984/20 = 8449 dmg
Icebow=51048 dmg/20 = 2552 dmg

I think something is wrong here….

that aside in wvw its all about the burst, not pve damage to grind down a 2 million hp mob.

so if you are facing someone with 16k hp who is running around constantly, you start channeling ms on ele, he sees the red circle and can dodge out of it or maybe gets hit 1 times before running out

= ~ 3-5k dmg based on crit

now we have revenant, he always crits because of some trait he runs around with ~ 90% crit rate

he can shoot out his skill every 2 seconds so the possibility to hit something is very hight, also he doesnt have to root himself in counterrange like the ele as he can use cor on the run on max range as it does most damage on max range anyway, and a missed skill is not a big deal as the cd is only 2 seconds.

he does 9k+ damage to his target.

now like i said doing 9k damage to 1 player is much better than doing 3k damage to 3 as you win by killing people and its better to spike down someone 1 than to push back 3 which will regen anyway. (also helps rallying your allies)
Also retaliation is much less of a thing with hard hitting abilites which hit less often.

so yeah skill is pretty broken, i tried out rev and just ran with zerker in our backline hitting 8-15k crits every 2-5 seconds.

not much fun to play against though.

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Posted by: samo.1054

samo.1054

This opening post is one of those, that while you’re reading it, you’re almost screaming “YES!! YESSSS!” and you’ve got this huge urge, that you could grab someone from Anet and tell them “Read this, just read it!!!”.

Great post, exceptionally well written. A shame that there’s 0.001% chance that someone from Anet will acutally respond to it, or even read it. Still I really appreciate the effort you put into writing this down and of course I thoroughly agree with what was said in OP.

Thumbs up.

Let’s also keep this thread civil, constructive and bumped

(edited by samo.1054)

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

activate passive perma-Fury for a traited +40% crit chance

Herald get double fury bonus? Man I think I need to start playing one

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Posted by: Reverence.6915

Reverence.6915

I think a major way we can tone down CoR is to give it a 2 second rooted cast time with a 5 second cooldown. That way, we can keep its damage while giving us significant counterplay by having ranged classes being able to focus out the revenant before they can cast the skill, or have them tank the damage and land the skill and deal the broken damage it deals now.

Expac sucks for WvW players. Asura master race
Beastgate | Faerie Law
Currently residing on SBI

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Posted by: Terrahero.9358

Terrahero.9358

I think a major way we can tone down CoR is to give it a 2 second rooted cast time with a 5 second cooldown. That way, we can keep its damage while giving us significant counterplay by having ranged classes being able to focus out the revenant before they can cast the skill, or have them tank the damage and land the skill and deal the broken damage it deals now.

I think a major tone down is needed to Revenant/Herald weapons autoattacks, weapon skills need a higher energy cost, higher cooldown.
Glint’s channels need a higher energy cost as well. Giving a whole group permanent Fury, permanent 8+ stacks of Might in such a passive way, while still having plenty of energy is just stupid.

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Posted by: Notsoperky.2348

Notsoperky.2348

Sadly the OP posted this in the wrong forum section to get any notice from devs.

Needs to copy and paste it to the spvp section and hopefully one might read it before it’s removed back to the wvw backwaters.

I find one of the issues is not to be even able to see it coming in any sort of fight, with all the other rubbish on the floor (and people milling around) it’s impossible to even pick it up. Even if you dodge one, three or four more are coming and of course they can spam it every 2 seconds…

I’m starting to wonder why I bother wearing armor at all in some of these fights. When you come across 4-5 revs who time their 2 second CoR so they all hit your blob (and let’s face it, the game relies on buffs/heals/etc that mean you HAVE to bunch up to get them..oh for a trinity..) and insta down half of you, it’s really not much fun.

Even running a totally tanky Druid build last night (2200 toughness- 3k+ armor) it felt like armor made no difference to the outcome in a lot of fights, where the burst skills of several classes are now so OP.

Sadly, they won’t fix it, as it doesn’t affect their precious spvp. Or if they do, it won’t be for wvw’s benefit it will be part of a general pvp baised skills update.

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Posted by: aB EXT.1287

aB EXT.1287

Thanks for your support all! I’m reluctant to post this in other sub-forums as they are not directly relevant and so will attract the wrong crowd. I urge you to head to the reddit thread and give it an upvote/comment there if you would like to keep it on the radar.

(https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3v4x4h/coalescence_of_ruin_is_sending_destructive/)

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Posted by: damnwidget.9301

damnwidget.9301

I think a major way we can tone down CoR is to give it a 2 second rooted cast time with a 5 second cooldown. That way, we can keep its damage while giving us significant counterplay by having ranged classes being able to focus out the revenant before they can cast the skill, or have them tank the damage and land the skill and deal the broken damage it deals now.

I think a major tone down is needed to Revenant/Herald weapons autoattacks, weapon skills need a higher energy cost, higher cooldown.
Glint’s channels need a higher energy cost as well. Giving a whole group permanent Fury, permanent 8+ stacks of Might in such a passive way, while still having plenty of energy is just stupid.

Obviously you have no idea about how the class mechanic works but hey, why not? Let’s nerf it down to the ground sure…

[SoW] Sông Of War – Baruch Bay

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Posted by: Ocosh.5843

Ocosh.5843

Before HoT hit we were looking at the viability of Revenant as part of the train, then everyone got ahold of one and realized, “Nope. This is backline material — just with better armor — because hammer damage is insane.”

Most especially if the intention is to kick us off the battlefield and into the confines of the tight guildhall arena, where there is no escaping the hammer spam, Coalescence of Ruin needs an adjustment. With multiple revenants casting it over and over, you simply will not have sufficient dodges and movements to avoid them all, particularly if the enemy is lining them up properly. As the OP points out, hammer is little used outside of WvW: in PvE it appears in open-world, where minute changes to damage or function are not going to be noticed; and in PvP some find it helpful situationally, but it is not considered optimal. Thus, toning down this ability will not significantly affect play in other areas of the game. Meanwhile, it will better the only portion of the game in which it appears — a win all around.

The #2 skill on a lot of weapons is the short-cd “burst” attack for that weapon. None of them blasts quite so hard, so often, from so far away, and through so many targets as does CoR. We could argue that it is natural that there will always be one item in a category that is the “best,” but that does not mean it has to be the best in every way.


By comparison, the second impact of CoR hits almost as hard as Mighty Blow (1.70 to 1.75 coefficient) from much further away. The final impact of CoR hits harder than eating half of a Rapid Fire (2.18 vs. 1.875) with lower visibility on a weapon whose average base damage is ~5% higher than a longbow. The current king of long-range damage on short cd, Smite (1200 range, 5.28 coefficient (for all hits), albeit on a 1h weapon), is unreliable and easily avoided, and nobody’s running scepter guard in squad play anyway. A double-hit of either the second or third impact of CoR hits harder than Gravedigger, much faster and much further away. Every one of these skills has a longer base recharge than CoR (the energy cost is negligible; unless running with too many facets on, you will recoup the cost while it recharges). None of them has a class mechanic to give a periodic +50% damage bonus (ranger could opt for +25%, but would have to forego piercing).

By the way, folks, the fellow posting the comparison between CoR and Meteor Swarm is agreeing with you that CoR is too strong.

(edited by Ocosh.5843)

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

Coalescence of Ruining the game with 1-shot skill on a 3 second cooldown.

That’s what it is, but the main problem is the trait that doubles the damage.
that traits needs to be nerfed by 80% to be like any other damage modifiers at 20%.

Then the skill itself needs to be nerfed by 15-20%, because it’s too much spike damage for a range attack.

Attachments:

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Posted by: Osu.6307

Osu.6307

From anet management: CoR will get nerfed when all those free account idiots buy HoT, and not before.

Full zerk hammer rev is just stupid OP right now, especially when you have a decent-sized zerg to protect you. I just laugh when my well-placed CoR lands smack dab in the enemy’s backline and crits multiple players for 16K each. If I see an allied player go down to a CoR, I don’t bother trying to rez because I know I can’t get him up AND get a dodge off in less than 2 seconds.

I’m sure everyone knows this by now, but the biggest protection from CoR is terrain. CoR only hits dependably on PERFECTLY flat terrain. I’m talking laser-leveled rice paddy flat. The slightest incline or decline in terrain in between you and your target, and CoR just kinda disappears.

Osu

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

From anet management: CoR will get nerfed when all those free account idiots buy HoT, and not before.

Full zerk hammer rev is just stupid OP right now, especially when you have a decent-sized zerg to protect you. I just laugh when my well-placed CoR lands smack dab in the enemy’s backline and crits multiple players for 16K each. If I see an allied player go down to a CoR, I don’t bother trying to rez because I know I can’t get him up AND get a dodge off in less than 2 seconds.

I’m sure everyone knows this by now, but the biggest protection from CoR is terrain. CoR only hits dependably on PERFECTLY flat terrain. I’m talking laser-leveled rice paddy flat. The slightest incline or decline in terrain in between you and your target, and CoR just kinda disappears.

There is nothing more frustrating in this game right now than being in a large zerg fight, doing all your stuff at full health, and getting instakill by someone who just presses 1 key abusing a skill/trait that evidently Anet completely forgot to balance properly.

This isn’t a balance patch item, it’s a bug level unintended behavior and should be fixed immediately.

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Posted by: Daendur.2357

Daendur.2357

There is nothing more frustrating in this game right now than being in a large zerg fight, [/cut]

you deserve everything that happens to you.

Black Thunders [BT] – Gandara

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

There is nothing more frustrating in this game right now than being in a large zerg fight, [/cut]

you deserve everything that happens to you.

Whats your point? That WvW shouldn’t be WvW? Or that a 17k hit on a 3 second cooldown is no big deal? Looks like you are just here to troll. Everyone knows Coalescence of Ruin is broken.

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Posted by: Daendur.2357

Daendur.2357

There is nothing more frustrating in this game right now than being in a large zerg fight, [/cut]

you deserve everything that happens to you.

Whats your point? That WvW shouldn’t be WvW? Or that a 17k hit on a 3 second cooldown is no big deal? Looks like you are just here to troll. Everyone knows Coalescence of Ruin is broken.

the point is, leave the zerg and l2p

Black Thunders [BT] – Gandara

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

There is nothing more frustrating in this game right now than being in a large zerg fight, [/cut]

you deserve everything that happens to you.

Whats your point? That WvW shouldn’t be WvW? Or that a 17k hit on a 3 second cooldown is no big deal? Looks like you are just here to troll. Everyone knows Coalescence of Ruin is broken.

the point is, leave the zerg and l2p

We’re talking here about a skill that instakill people with 1 hit and you come here with your biased opinion about how the game should be played. You just want to roam only, fine, but if you think large scale battles do not belong in WvW then you’re just playing the wrong game. But besides that you also have the condescending view that fights between large group are just the result of people karma training when the reality couldn’t be further from the truth.

You’re off topic anyway.

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Posted by: Xernth.8561

Xernth.8561

The only changes it needs are to redesign Cruel Repercussion; a 50% modifier is insane an the primary purpose it serves is to fuel angst filled screenshots.

The second change it needs is to move .2 of its coefficient from the furthest away hit to the closest hit retaining the flavor but toning down the highest impacts.

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Posted by: Daendur.2357

Daendur.2357

There is nothing more frustrating in this game right now than being in a large zerg fight, [/cut]

you deserve everything that happens to you.

Whats your point? That WvW shouldn’t be WvW? Or that a 17k hit on a 3 second cooldown is no big deal? Looks like you are just here to troll. Everyone knows Coalescence of Ruin is broken.

the point is, leave the zerg and l2p

We’re talking here about a skill that instakill people with 1 hit and you come here with your biased opinion about how the game should be played. You just want to roam only, fine, but if you think large scale battles do not belong in WvW then you’re just playing the wrong game. But besides that you also have the condescending view that fights between large group are just the result of people karma training when the reality couldn’t be further from the truth.

You’re off topic anyway.

a rifle war can do the same. in an “epic battle” ppl just press 1 1 1 f and a skill like CoR seems to be OP because in the mess that a blob creates you can’t see it even if it is a skill really easy to avoid, so the problem is not the skill itself, but the fact that you can’t avoid it and that’s because you are just blobbing.
maybe if you split up that kittening blob and try to do some decent fights you’ll learn to avoid skills like CoR, but yeah, it’s better to cry and call for nerf

Black Thunders [BT] – Gandara

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Posted by: Stonewall.6037

Stonewall.6037

quote:
I’m sure everyone knows this by now, but the biggest protection from CoR is terrain. CoR only hits dependably on PERFECTLY flat terrain. I’m talking laser-leveled rice paddy flat. The slightest incline or decline in terrain in between you and your target, and CoR just kinda disappears.
/quote

I’ve seen thief/mes roamers use this: jump on low rocks, then attack revenant— many of the skills won’t hit if there is a 1/2 meter difference in altitude of the target. Counter is to also jump up on said rocks first .

So Long, and Thanks For the Loot Bags.

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Posted by: Substance E.4852

Substance E.4852

maybe if you split up that kittening blob and try to do some decent fights you’ll learn to avoid skills like CoR, but yeah, it’s better to cry and call for nerf

People come to wvw for big fights.

Go to spvp if you want small scale pointless fights over nothing.

Connection error(s) detected. Retrying…

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Posted by: Notsoperky.2348

Notsoperky.2348

There is nothing more frustrating in this game right now than being in a large zerg fight, [/cut]

you deserve everything that happens to you.

Whats your point? That WvW shouldn’t be WvW? Or that a 17k hit on a 3 second cooldown is no big deal? Looks like you are just here to troll. Everyone knows Coalescence of Ruin is broken.

the point is, leave the zerg and l2p

We’re talking here about a skill that instakill people with 1 hit and you come here with your biased opinion about how the game should be played. You just want to roam only, fine, but if you think large scale battles do not belong in WvW then you’re just playing the wrong game. But besides that you also have the condescending view that fights between large group are just the result of people karma training when the reality couldn’t be further from the truth.

You’re off topic anyway.

a rifle war can do the same. in an “epic battle” ppl just press 1 1 1 f and a skill like CoR seems to be OP because in the mess that a blob creates you can’t see it even if it is a skill really easy to avoid, so the problem is not the skill itself, but the fact that you can’t avoid it and that’s because you are just blobbing.
maybe if you split up that kittening blob and try to do some decent fights you’ll learn to avoid skills like CoR, but yeah, it’s better to cry and call for nerf

What do you call a ‘decent fight’? 5v5? It’s still almost impossible to avoid CoR more than twice as after that your dodges are on cool down- and that’s if you can even see it coming in the mess that is a typical GW2 pixel fight (with lag and ping issues). Add in a decent engi/mes and a couple CoR spammers and a decent team will wipe you before you even see them. It’s not an issue in spvp because there are few places where CoR functions well and very rare to have more than 2 or 3 maximum players fighting over more than one cap point.

It’s not fun, nor is it decent large scale fight design to have such long range massive damage skills on such a small cooldown and so hard to see.

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Posted by: Osu.6307

Osu.6307

Just got off the phone with the anet spvp team and they said CoR is fine. In fact, most revs don’t even run hammer because it is so crappy so they are thinking of buffing the damage on CoR to bring it in line. And since wvw is basically spvp anyway…..

Osu

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Posted by: Lord of Rings.5371

Lord of Rings.5371

This gives so clearly a reason for WvW players and the new free players to buy HOT because Revenants are so powerful with this 2 sec cool down massive long range AOE damage skill.

Revenant is unique. It appears to be the most powerful class in zergs and only it comes with HOT. Any side with most Revenants wins.

The pressure is on ..

Leveling Revenants and getting armors and hammers with right runes and sigils might be another few hundred hours of playing time; so investing some gems could speed this up.

Fire Water Air
FA

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Posted by: Daendur.2357

Daendur.2357

People come to wvw for big fights.

People are stupid, and just want the easy way.

Black Thunders [BT] – Gandara

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Posted by: Notsoperky.2348

Notsoperky.2348

People come to wvw for big fights.

People are stupid, and just want the easy way.

The pvd is strong in this one…

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Posted by: Simonoly.4352

Simonoly.4352

I love that this skill exists in such an unbalanced form – it absolutely epitomises the state of the game.

Gandara

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Posted by: LetoII.3782

LetoII.3782

STILL A BETTER CHANGE THAN AUTOUPGRADE

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Posted by: johnny lafata.4670

johnny lafata.4670

This is a great post OP…

I originally made a set of Ascended zerker/scholar runes for my rev because of the hammer. I cant believe how much damage CoR does with all the defensive abilities herald provides. I took that set on put it on my main (Warrior) to see what numbers i could get. For my warrior to hit that hard, I have to run absolute glass. I’m talking Signet of Might, On my Mark, and Signet of Fury/ Heal skill. Killshot i can get a 14k still. Easy as hell to see it coming, and if it misses im basically dead. Gun flame i can get around 12k on a low CD. For Evicerate I feel lucky if i get a 12k now. For a melee burst. But lets give Rev a 8-15k 1200 range with lowest CD in the game. Its a perma Gun Flame warrior basically. Warrior is outclassed in almost every way.
BRB Rerolling Rev as main

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Posted by: Fortra.5918

Fortra.5918

quote:
I’m sure everyone knows this by now, but the biggest protection from CoR is terrain. CoR only hits dependably on PERFECTLY flat terrain. I’m talking laser-leveled rice paddy flat. The slightest incline or decline in terrain in between you and your target, and CoR just kinda disappears.
/quote

I’ve seen thief/mes roamers use this: jump on low rocks, then attack revenant— many of the skills won’t hit if there is a 1/2 meter difference in altitude of the target. Counter is to also jump up on said rocks first .

I have seen CoR hit the rock walls(that appear on the way to garrison) go up and over, then proceed to deal damage to those on the other side. Yet I have also seen CoR kinda disappear like you said on almost flat terrain. Its very inconsistant and that is part of the problem.

But yeah, the damage is absolutely absurd, no idea what ANet was smoking when they created this skill…

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Posted by: Solori.6025

Solori.6025

Question…

When has a skill ever been changed because it was too strong in WvW?


The world needs more KUNG FURY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS5P_LAqiVg

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Posted by: Virtute.8251

Virtute.8251

Question…

When has a skill ever been changed because it was too strong in WvW?

Mesmer Portal uncapped at launch, later capped to allow 20 players to travel through.

Retaliation damage equal in all modes at launch, later reduced by 33% in WvW and PvP zones.

Legendary PvF Keep Lord Anvu Pansu Senpai
RvR isn’t “endgame”, it’s the only game. Cu in CU.

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

Question…

When has a skill ever been changed because it was too strong in WvW?

Ice Bow 50% nerf, it was really 1-shoting people in WvW all over the place… lol