Guild Wars 2

Something I haven’t seen mention was DAOC gave you a purpose, After you checked out RVR for the first time it gave the sense that you knew why you were leveling up a character, so you could go and fight for your realm. You weren’t building a character to go do PVE raids. Even when you were PVE questing, or crafting…. the moment someone in chat said “enemies are goin for our relic keep!” there was huge panic, everyone and their mother stopped what they were doin and head to the frontier to try to defend what was theirs. this was also due to the map design, each side had a homelands where the keeps were yours. In GW2 it may says 1 sides borderlands but really everything has the feel its up for grabs and really doesn’t belong to anyone. the fact that the maps are split into 4 make it feel like just 4 mini games that don’t matter. when you have 1 giant zone you go where your needed. but in 4 zones you rarely leave 1 if something is happening in another.

Don’t even get me started on the orbs…. Why no Orb keep? that should be the most fortified keep of all. lets just make it like taking a supply camp with harder guards….. I know why they took away the orbs but if they had been done correctly there wouldn’t have been a problem and there would be some actual goal in WvW.

There are so many aspects that made DAOC better. Is GW2 bad? no. this is why I have high hopes for ESO, because its actually using the DAOC design with 1 mega map and homelands for each side.

Here this is what i’m talking about. This is how WvWvW should have been done

http://elderscrollsotr.mymiddleearth.com/2013/03/26/elder-scrolls-online-zenimax-online-studios-teso-pvp-in-eso-controlling-cyrodiil/

DAoC was fun, and that statement comes from a former RR10 Thane.
(LAGHAMMAHZ)

In all honesty though, with how much this community kittenes about the asymmetric nature of the classes in this game, imagine how they’d react to, what was it, 25 unique classes split unevenly into 3 distinct realms.

DAoC today = Developer Nightmare.
GW2 = Good enough for gov’ment work.

Besides, thinking about Bolt-ranged 60s Mess from a lifetapping, pet-charming, POM-chanting class with Single-charge BT, Ablatives AND AF buffs is making me sick.

NEED MOAR BOMB GROUPS PLZ.

I always feel these posts are like the WoW posts saying BC was the best pvp and arenas. And yet no one seems to remember all the whing about 2v2 with resto druid / x class (warrior), or mage/rogue.

But its human nature to just remember the good times so we feel betwhen arenas in wow had no time limit, and i kept the match going for about an hour with my resto druid….so stupid.

Waage.2047:

Xsorus.2507:

ARM.3912:

Dogskins.1259:

ARM.3912:

lorndarken.3702:

words

DAOC was better by far than this game, but it died. End of story.
ps: Darkness Falls came way after Trials of Atlantis. Did you not play the game?

Do you even lift bro? :P

Just playing, lol. But:

He wasn’t talking about the expansion, was talking about the PvP dungeon near PK Bridge in Alb, not too sure about mid/hib lol

Yes, the PvP dungeon under the center of the map(DF) came 4 years after TOA.

You’re thinking of Labyrinth of the Minotaur. Completely different dungeon.

Anyway…DAOC is superior in pretty much every way concerning PvP in this game….GW2 doesn’t hold a candle..

Hell GW2 doesn’t even beat Warhammer Online when it comes to PvP….

Hell even the actual Mechanics of PvP require less skill then DAOC…

I know some will say “But in GW2 you have to dodge” and in DAOC you had to actually Position your self to use attacks worth anything…Hell You had to position yourself period so you wouldn’t be destroyed…Which is the equiv of dodging in this game.

if Mark Jacobs Camelot Unleashed is half as good as DAOC, it’ll still be 4x better then GW2.

Okay i am going to revoke your “I know what i am talking about card” for your Warhammer online statement. I played that on the side of Order for a long time and that game is TRASH compared to GW2 when it comes to WvW.

Now i played on the European servers and there was only 3 classes that was core. WP, Knight and Bright Wizard. A few Slayers and few AM’s could be useful, but the rest had to be bomb’s or else you would lose.

Hey want to attack a keep. Where there is 1 way in so stand here and press hold the line over and over and over and over and over and over. The maps them self where badly made super unbalanced tiny. The Tier 3 ones where good, but tier 4. MY GOD!

RK was active in that game and a massive force on our server and to this day we still joke about the horrible stuff that was in that game.

Remember knights were not in the game at the start, So i’m assuming you had Ironbreakers back then.

AM’s at the start also had an incredibly powerful Channeled Heal.

White Lions had their Massive Range Pull (one you could pull someone across the entire map)

Runepriests also were pretty good.

Witch hunters were kind of week at the beginning, But eventually became pretty good. Shadow Warriors were kitten..Engineer’s were powerful till they nerfed the PBAE pull.

You actually probably had more build diversity at the beginning on Warhammer, What you’re talking about is Mid Warhammer right after Knights were added in, and You usually ran 1 Knight/2 Wp’s/2 Bw’s and your 6th was usually whatever you wanted…Cause lets face it, Those 3 classes were great for groups (You could substitute a WP for a Rune Priest, but that was really up to you) DPS AM’s actually ended up being a powerful 6th.

Little after that Slayers were added and you started having Slayer/Choppa Heavy groups running.

As for the one way inside the keeps, This is true…you only had one way in… But really does it matter? You basically focused on a point and fought around it… Your zerg could easily be wiped from behind if you weren’t careful either. You had the Realm Rank system so you actually had a reason to defend and hold that keep (not to mention you didn’t want them to get to your city)

Also you disliked the maps? I’ll admit I didn’t care a whole lot for the T4 orc/dwarf pairing..but the Dark Elf/High Elf and Human/Chaos Pairing had fairly good maps..Praag for example.

Unless you’re talking about Scenario’s? In which case you’re probably right about T4 maps, very few of them were really great..I can think of maybe 1 or 2 off the top of my head.

Aervius.2016:

DAoC was fun, and that statement comes from a former RR10 Thane.
(LAGHAMMAHZ)

In all honesty though, with how much this community kittenes about the asymmetric nature of the classes in this game, imagine how they’d react to, what was it, 25 unique classes split unevenly into 3 distinct realms.

DAoC today = Developer Nightmare.
GW2 = Good enough for gov’ment work.

Besides, thinking about Bolt-ranged 60s Mess from a lifetapping, pet-charming, POM-chanting class with Single-charge BT, Ablatives AND AF buffs is making me sick.

NEED MOAR BOMB GROUPS PLZ.

Sorcs always cracked me up on My Valkyrie and my Savage..Get on them, and watch them pop MoC and start life tapping..Run in the opposite direction…. wait 10 seconds…Come back and kill them.

Fuzzion.2504:

Without a doubt, DAoC is superior to GW2. But then again it took 5 years to polish DAOC.

I know some of you dont agree, but GW2 is a 10 year project. But the time it hits 5 years, it will be far more fun than what daoc was after 5 years.

Unless they plan on changing the down system in this game in the next 10 years..unlikely

DAoC 2 AKA camelot unchained after 4 days at kickstarter over 800k funded almost halfway there.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained?ref=live

Xsorus.2507:

ARM.3912:

Dogskins.1259:

ARM.3912:

lorndarken.3702:

words

DAOC was better by far than this game, but it died. End of story.
ps: Darkness Falls came way after Trials of Atlantis. Did you not play the game?

Do you even lift bro? :P

Just playing, lol. But:

He wasn’t talking about the expansion, was talking about the PvP dungeon near PK Bridge in Alb, not too sure about mid/hib lol

Yes, the PvP dungeon under the center of the map(DF) came 4 years after TOA.

You’re thinking of Labyrinth of the Minotaur. Completely different dungeon.

Anyway…DAOC is superior in pretty much every way concerning PvP in this game….GW2 doesn’t hold a candle..

Hell GW2 doesn’t even beat Warhammer Online when it comes to PvP….

Hell even the actual Mechanics of PvP require less skill then DAOC…

I know some will say “But in GW2 you have to dodge” and in DAOC you had to actually Position your self to use attacks worth anything…Hell You had to position yourself period so you wouldn’t be destroyed…Which is the equiv of dodging in this game.

if Mark Jacobs Camelot Unleashed is half as good as DAOC, it’ll still be 4x better then GW2.

This. The interrupt system of DAoC was fantastic. Casting on the run was impossible bar instas of which there were precious few. You also got a lot more back for you investment… the difference between high level RvR toons and low was major.

However, internet whining destroyed DAoC which caused the watering down of classes and spreading the abilities out. People preferred not to learn to play. Sound familiar anyone??

I have played plenty games that entail massive battles areas for entertainment. DAoC was by far the best of them hands down. The whole concept was base of RvRvR. It very hard to compare any game after DAoC decline as equal. They created three very separate realms, that had nothing in common with each other; each class in each realm perform different functions and aide to their fellow realmmates. This attempt to create very different realms did create a imbalance and they spent endless years always patching fixing. But make no mistake, Abs did not like Hibs, Hibs did not like Mids, and Mids did not like Abs That alone added another layer of fun and love of realm to the game. What drew me to GW2 was the promotion of DAoC format which other games could not deleiver. WvW is fun but they need to make it mean something outside of a scoreborad. There are not benefits for controling keeps and towers outside of a scoreboard and improve the award system for those players that day after day defend their realm (not just new skins) GW2 has potenial for greatest, but the programer really need to start thinking outside of the box for realm unity. I dont recall the constant fighting among PvEers vs PvPers in DAoC, everyoen came out to the frontier at some point to fight, even if it was only to open DF. As I see it now, I’m being entertained, but for how long. Outside of server Pop. there is no difference in how toons play, Players jump server quickly because there is nothing to loose, a Charr is a Charr is a Charr, a warrior is a warrior, etc. Too many recent games have taken the cookie cutter appoarch to RvRvR. In DAoC, a few years went by before I even attempt to play another realm. DAoC was ahead of its time and was thinking outside the box but just lack the current tech of today. GW2 needs to step up, I’m enjoying the mindless fighting now, but for how long?

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

[quote=1772026;Xsorus.2507:]

cosmicegg.8502:

DAoC 2 AKA camelot unchained after 4 days at kickstarter over 800k funded almost halfway there.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained?ref=live

Im all for Camelot Unchained but I really think TESO will bring the RVR that Everyone has been wanting since DAOC. It will have ES combat but if you look at stuff it uses teh same style as DAOC, no cool downs all abilities use endureance and power from you bar you need to manage. there is active blocking and power attacks so it could actually be better. On the other side it will still have a PVE game for people who like to do both

Pirhana.8935:

cosmicegg.8502:

DAoC 2 AKA camelot unchained after 4 days at kickstarter over 800k funded almost halfway there.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained?ref=live

Im all for Camelot Unchained but I really think TESO will bring the RVR that Everyone has been wanting since DAOC. It will have ES combat but if you look at stuff it uses teh same style as DAOC, no cool downs all abilities use endureance and power from you bar you need to manage. there is active blocking and power attacks so it could actually be better. On the other side it will still have a PVE game for people who like to do both

I am skeptical, but I am hopeful. Skyrim hasn’t done an MMO, and that concerns me. I am predicting a lot of silly dev mistakes, but I am hoping the game will be good. My money is on Camelot Unchained (literally)!

Fast forward to 10 minutes 10 seconds…..

this type of stuff would never happen in GW2 and thats what i miss the most.

I love GW2 but i burnt out quick and havent played in a month or 2 and have no desire to log in

I really enjoyed Daoc sure it had its own problems but it was by far the best mmo I’ve played. Since then I’ve tried many “the next big thing” game but nothing ever touched Daoc for server pride and pvp(rvr).

I think GW2 is on the right tracks towards what daoc was and I haven’t played a game which ever managed that feat.

Nothing will ever beat daoc for me but for a free to play game GW2 sure is good.

GW2 did a lot right….the real problem is they just didn’t do enough of it. It would be interesting to know the population of PvE versus the population of WvW (and how this has tracked over the last few months) but I bet WvW is keeping pace nicely despite representing probably less than 5% of the developer’s total efforts.

They spend months on a new PvE thing that everyone blows through in 30 days and never plays again while the same tiny piece of land representing WvW gets replayed again and again and again. I have to believe that someone somewhere is noticing this and coming to a realization that money spent on WvW content is money well spent. If this game had 4 small PvE zones and the entire rest of the map was WvW (instead of the other way around), I feel like it would have been a lot more popular and held onto a lot more players for a lot longer time.

Slamz.5376:

GW2 did a lot right….the real problem is they just didn’t do enough of it. It would be interesting to know the population of PvE versus the population of WvW (and how this has tracked over the last few months) but I bet WvW is keeping pace nicely despite representing probably less than 5% of the developer’s total efforts.

They spend months on a new PvE thing that everyone blows through in 30 days and never plays again while the same tiny piece of land representing WvW gets replayed again and again and again. I have to believe that someone somewhere is noticing this and coming to a realization that money spent on WvW content is money well spent. If this game had 4 small PvE zones and the entire rest of the map was WvW (instead of the other way around), I feel like it would have been a lot more popular and held onto a lot more players for a lot longer time.

Definitely agree.

I don’t think GW2 has much to worry about from ESO in terms of PvE, or even lore/story. My experience is that games with “light-hearted” tones, like WoW and GW2, draw in larger audiences than the more seriously pitched games like Lord of the Rings Online. ESO has a darker tone, and that will appeal to fewer people (though still a lot).

Gameplay-wise, ESO and GW2 look very similar, and have equivalent “action combat” styles. Judging by the latest footage though, ESO combat looks “clunky”, and GW2 is among the smoothest I’ve ever played. Advantage GW2.

The only serious challenge from ESO then is going to be their PvP. Will it be good enough to make up for not being the best in the other areas? There is no doubt that the current setup of WvW favours zergs too much, and as such, does not reward skill like it should. There is a real possibility ESO PvP will hit the sweet spot between average player and hardcore. If that happens, GW2 WvW will have some trouble, if it’s not improved.

Pirhana.8935
cosmicegg.8502:
DAoC 2 AKA camelot unchained after 4 days at kickstarter over 800k funded almost halfway there.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained?ref=live
Im all for Camelot Unchained but I really think TESO will bring the RVR that Everyone has been wanting since DAOC. It will have ES combat but if you look at stuff it uses teh same style as DAOC, no cool downs all abilities use endureance and power from you bar you need to manage. there is active blocking and power attacks so it could actually be better. On the other side it will still have a PVE game for people who like to do both

I like the fact that so many games want to create RVR worlds. More minds in the arena of ideas make this type of game great. DAOC was the first time i ever did any type of pvp and i was hooked since. With CU, TESO , and others in the wings i look forward to the choices. And so many of the games going with their own engine. That is quite a commitment.

Thrumdi.9216:

Gameplay-wise, ESO and GW2 look very similar, and have equivalent “action combat” styles. Judging by the latest footage though, ESO combat looks “clunky”, and GW2 is among the smoothest I’ve ever played. Advantage GW2.

Dunno where you get that from. TESO combat looks fine to me and with the active blocking, the greater array of skills and the ability to equip any armour and weapon I think combat has the potential to be better than GW2 which has been compromised by the esports paradigm.

Dark Age of Camelot was a wonderful game for it’s time and it had a little more focus on players. Guild Wars 2 however is a superior game in almost every aspect. From character flexibility, to UI, to graphics, to how smooth the game plays, to the underlying strategic supply system.

There are still aspects of DAOC that were “better” and will likely always be. But Guild Wars 2 will stick to it’s guns and make itself the next DAOC by following it’s own path and being good in it’s own way.

It’s like 2 different flavors of cheesecake that are both awesome. Only Guild Wars 2 is cheaper and made with better ingredients, even if they taste equally awesome.

Kiltor.9362:

DAoC was way ahead of its time. back then people were just getting into pvp as main stream type of playstyle. and daoc amped it up by doing it 3 realms vs eachother.

Kiltor!!!!!

I never had a real pvp experience before DAoC. The first time I was brave enough to venture into Thidranki and was killed I was hooked. Heart pumping, hand sweating, back-stabbing good fun! The environment was just as important as the competition.

morrolan.9608:

Dunno where you get that from. TESO combat looks fine to me and with the active blocking, the greater array of skills and the ability to equip any armour and weapon I think combat has the potential to be better than GW2 which has been compromised by the esports paradigm.

Unless something has magically changed since the PAX video “leak” (I use that word because Zenimax sure did a number trying to have that video deleted), I wouldn’t be very generous with the TESO combat. It just looks bad: clunky and lifeless.

Probably explains why they have yet to show us any meaningful in-game footage.

morrolan.9608:

Thrumdi.9216:

Gameplay-wise, ESO and GW2 look very similar, and have equivalent “action combat” styles. Judging by the latest footage though, ESO combat looks “clunky”, and GW2 is among the smoothest I’ve ever played. Advantage GW2.

Dunno where you get that from. TESO combat looks fine to me and with the active blocking, the greater array of skills and the ability to equip any armour and weapon I think combat has the potential to be better than GW2 which has been compromised by the esports paradigm.

From the reveals I’ve seen, the TESO hotbar will have roughly the same number of active skills as GW2.

It is slightly different in that your weapon will have an autoattack and a primed attack, that are not on your hotbar, but just activated by your mouse. Special weapon skills will go on the hotbar.

Overall though, in terms of possible skills to equip, it looks like TESO will have a lot more. But that really makes it an outlier like the first GW1. GW2 is already on the high end of equipable skills for mainstream games.

I like what i see so far about teso, The back story for pvp, the rock scissor paper approach all looks great. Bethesdaso produces good products and i look forward their attempt at producing a good mmog.

cosmicegg.8502:

Bethesdaso produces good products.

Not really about the topic in and of itself… but no they don’t. They produce bugged, copy-pasted (heellloooo skyrim dungeons!) content which gains most of its fame either in the modding community, in the hilarious game-breaking bugs that result, or the lore and expansive world where you can muck around however you see fit.

…None of which are going to exist or be good in an MMO, except lore.

As such I have no idea why they are making an MMO on a single-player franchise that was about player freedom. But we’ll see how it goes.

I suppose this makes sense, considering how often Daoc comes up on forums.