Guild Wars 2

In this analysis, I want to compare how well a hometeam zerg can protect their keeps from enemy zergs. I’ll be using the distance between waypoints and keeps, the time it takes to break into inner and the time it takes to bring down a lord. I’ll give consideration to some new elements in HoT that also have an impact—namely more expensive guild catapults. One should also note that Emergency Waypoints are now a thing, though I don’t see a clean way to account for them here.

If anyone feels there are more directions to look at this from, say as much and I’ll do what I can to add them in.

TRAVEL TIMES – All times are with swiftness but no leaps.

ALPINE – source:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/How-long-were-Alpine-Borderland-travel-times/6046414

DESERT – source: timed myself in DBL

FINDINGS

The travel time from the center keep to the side keeps increased by about 40s, or 50%.

BREAK-IN TIMES – Source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fspreadsheets%2Fd%2F1S0RkQUsaXhBmv4y1dN7YtFWmuUq8VsUBUk1uxTj4AZw%2Fedit%23gid%3D0

FINDINGS: – Here, I added up the times for all tiers and compared them. It’s not spot on for any tier but is a good general picture.

The west side keep takes 25% longer to break into on Desert or 94% longer using guild catas (due to the cost change).

The east side keep takes 122% longer to break into on Desert or 246% longer with guild catas (due to the cost change).

LORD FIGHT LENGTH

Unfortunately, I don’t much data on this point. The common word is that is has increased on Desert, which I do not doubt, but I don’t have any way to measure precisely how much.

This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUrjWKI822M shows a group of ~15 (non-pro players) taking a lord down in about 10 seconds. I would estimate a DBL lord takes at least a minute to go down, probably more.

CURRENT CONCLUSIONS

This is all a moot point because of two reasons:

- Scouts have abandoned Desert because of convoluted keep/tower layout and zergs dont like to port to garri and run a gauntlet/maze to defend, so you dont get warnings or reinforcements in time.

- Alpine keeps where under constant siege threat from nearby towers/camps but with Citadel home base (garri+nw/ne tower+n camp) being so easily defensible, defensive zergs where encouraged to stay on their toes in an area about 20% the size you need to do it in Desert border (ie well below garri vs everything below spawn). Its the same reason EB “home” defense works good (keep+3 towers+2 camps).

I think I already showed you how simple it is to scout firekeep/airkeep with screenshots, so I’ll spare you a second posting. I also can’t really respond to your dramatic claim of scouts having abandoned the BL. Perhaps some scouts you know did, perhaps some didn’t. That’s not really relevant to this thread. Pretty sure I also responded to the ‘maze’ comment elsewhere too.

Given that response times are longer, it seems like the goal was to increase the size of the area where zergs needed to stay on their toes. Thus, while I don’t see any claim in your statement, the bit of info you shared seems to highlight the effect of the differences well. Since the time to respond is longer too, the effect is such that commanders can defend but also benefit from better information (since taps take up more time).

To scout properly you need to build siege. But you need so much siege to defend every spot that you don’t siege at all…
And the keep are really annoying to scout.

You add non counterable spot, like nort outer wall and south inner wall at palace… I didn’t find atm counter spot to cata at north UC, wall at right from the door, cata on the hills at north east.

Then what the point to scout if you know that you can’t do anything ?

Actually (at least on my server in T1 in EU) there is no more any scout, no more siege (or just a very on rampart). If the zerg join we generally have the time to defend because the lord is so long to kill.
If the zerg don’t join, then at least no one loose money to siege something that the zerg don’t defend.

The uncounterable spots are certainly a problem, but that’s not what’s being tackled here. So much goes into scouting that it’ll be a while before I can really define what needs to be looked at with it.

You add non counterable spot, like nort outer wall and south inner wall at palace… I didn’t find atm counter spot to cata at north UC, wall at right from the door, cata on the hills at north east.

There are numerous options to defend the south inner wall at palace. As for the north outer wall, you can use a) the cannon, b) the m o r t a r, c) a treb at the same spot, d) supply traps, e) omega golem.
Most of you are so hardened in negativity that you don’t even try. Actually, you can defend palace better than hills with less siege.

The canon ? You die in 2 sec if you stay on that thing….

Ychiju.7960:

There are numerous options to defend the south inner wall at palace. As for the north outer wall, you can use a) the cannon, b) the m o r t a r, c) a treb at the same spot, d) supply traps, e) omega golem.
Most of you are so hardened in negativity that you don’t even try. Actually, you can defend palace better than hills with less siege.

While it’s not really what the topic of this thread is about, can you give me information on how to defend south Airkeep inner? When I finally get that scouting thread together, it’ll be good info to have.

How’s a defensive zerg going to show up when most servers don’t have the numbers to actually have scouts in the first place?

You forget one main issue. It is a lot easier to maneuver in the alpin keeps. Hence, it is easier to scout. An attack is faster detected.

that is true but the small team initiative was ruined by all the perma-stealth thiefs that were roaming at the end you couldn’t come near a camp, or escort without one being on your back, and when it wasn’t enough he stealthed and ran back to his starting-point.

Instead of being able to hide small groups and to use tactical advantages

The continuous buffs and boons for the thief kinda killed it for me.

yeah scouting is maybe easier but in the end weren’t the ppl just sitting in the towers and keeps and just waiting for the next attack.

I guess all things and ideas have their pro and cons its not that i’m out to get told that i’m right lol.

gloflop.3510:

You forget one main issue. It is a lot easier to maneuver in the alpin keeps. Hence, it is easier to scout. An attack is faster detected.

Here’s how to scout Firekeep and Airkeep in, at most, 20 seconds. With sentries and the like, you should really be able to narrow it down more quickly. Honestly, any scout that wants to pass my test had better call out the enemy zerg before the keep goes contested.

Sviel.7493 from Start to Garry you cod do in about 5sec if there were a mesmer that did a portal in Garry then TP back and made portal in start

i guess you wish keep-taggers back OO i will hear the complaints afterwards, it only happens on EBG nowadays.