Guild Wars 2

Estus.1726:

Raf.1078:

Here is what I’m reading in this thread:

My group of leet hyper skilled players cannot compete against a zerg of lesser skilled players. Therefore, ANet must tilt the game towards our type of playstyle because….

Well, this is where you guys are losing it. Cause I’ve yet to read single decent reason for tuning the game to small group play over large group play. More people zerg than play small groups.

The zerg is tkittenense of wvw. Zergs can carry more suppy for siege…can drain supply camps to deny the enemy and speed build siege on the spot for the conquest of keeps & towers.

Not to say that there isn’t a place for small group play…but not at the expense of other forms of play.

I agree. it boggles my mind that people in this thread actually wants to discourage large scale group battles in a MMORPG. What do people want? If more than 20 people are in a certain radius of each other they randomly start to drop dead?

SPVP seems to be what ANET had in mind for small groups. WvWvW IMO was designed for three massive armies to go toe to toe with each other.

Dude you act like “wvw” is the first open world system…. “this is meant for large scale battles” news flash couple other games have had open world systems… And those games allowed for Zergs to happen. They also allowed for skilled coordinated groups to smoke said Zergs if the Zergs really were filled with new players who don’t fully understand pvp. This thread is not saying don’t allow Zergs, it’s saying allow for another play style at the same time.

What I hear as a counter argument is "we in the Zerg populus enjoy our press 1 epic combat and don’t want any “leet” players to ever effect our gameplay". To use your own saying, “tough it’s wvw my 5 smoked you 20+, you guys absolutely should have beat us but didn’t and in wvw that’s how it goes”. That’s not going to happen Everytime but Anet doesn’t provide ANY chance with its current setup of 5 Aoe cap and down state.

Jscull.2514:

Estus.1726:

Raf.1078:

Here is what I’m reading in this thread:

My group of leet hyper skilled players cannot compete against a zerg of lesser skilled players. Therefore, ANet must tilt the game towards our type of playstyle because….

Well, this is where you guys are losing it. Cause I’ve yet to read single decent reason for tuning the game to small group play over large group play. More people zerg than play small groups.

The zerg is tkittenense of wvw. Zergs can carry more suppy for siege…can drain supply camps to deny the enemy and speed build siege on the spot for the conquest of keeps & towers.

Not to say that there isn’t a place for small group play…but not at the expense of other forms of play.

I agree. it boggles my mind that people in this thread actually wants to discourage large scale group battles in a MMORPG. What do people want? If more than 20 people are in a certain radius of each other they randomly start to drop dead?

SPVP seems to be what ANET had in mind for small groups. WvWvW IMO was designed for three massive armies to go toe to toe with each other.

Dude you act like “wvw” is the first open world system…. “this is meant for large scale battles” news flash couple other games have had open world systems… And those games allowed for Zergs to happen. They also allowed for skilled coordinated groups to smoke said Zergs if the Zergs really were filled with new players who don’t fully understand pvp. This thread is not saying don’t allow Zergs, it’s saying allow for another play style at the same time.

What I hear as a counter argument is "we in the Zerg populus enjoy our press 1 epic combat and don’t want any “leet” players to ever effect our gameplay". To use your own saying, “tough it’s wvw my 5 smoked you 20+, you guys absolutely should have beat us but didn’t and in wvw that’s how it goes”. That’s not going to happen Everytime but Anet doesn’t provide ANY chance with its current setup of 5 Aoe cap and down state.

And jsculls famous rants that have no facts in them start again

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If people want to encourage small grouping, that is fine. Just don’t encourage by penalizing players for coming together in a small group.

And I fully agree, but any suggestion is branded as leet, stupid or “I just won’t enter a debate where WvW could have more depth”, not just the current state.

All you can read is negative comments, “don’t dare to change”, “why change if it work for ME” but no offers of compromise or ideas. On the other hand I don’t le either the “l2p” comments towards those who like to group.

snowaugar.1823:

Jscull.2514:

Estus.1726:

Raf.1078:

Here is what I’m reading in this thread:

My group of leet hyper skilled players cannot compete against a zerg of lesser skilled players. Therefore, ANet must tilt the game towards our type of playstyle because….

Well, this is where you guys are losing it. Cause I’ve yet to read single decent reason for tuning the game to small group play over large group play. More people zerg than play small groups.

The zerg is tkittenense of wvw. Zergs can carry more suppy for siege…can drain supply camps to deny the enemy and speed build siege on the spot for the conquest of keeps & towers.

Not to say that there isn’t a place for small group play…but not at the expense of other forms of play.

I agree. it boggles my mind that people in this thread actually wants to discourage large scale group battles in a MMORPG. What do people want? If more than 20 people are in a certain radius of each other they randomly start to drop dead?

SPVP seems to be what ANET had in mind for small groups. WvWvW IMO was designed for three massive armies to go toe to toe with each other.

Dude you act like “wvw” is the first open world system…. “this is meant for large scale battles” news flash couple other games have had open world systems… And those games allowed for Zergs to happen. They also allowed for skilled coordinated groups to smoke said Zergs if the Zergs really were filled with new players who don’t fully understand pvp. This thread is not saying don’t allow Zergs, it’s saying allow for another play style at the same time.

What I hear as a counter argument is "we in the Zerg populus enjoy our press 1 epic combat and don’t want any “leet” players to ever effect our gameplay". To use your own saying, “tough it’s wvw my 5 smoked you 20+, you guys absolutely should have beat us but didn’t and in wvw that’s how it goes”. That’s not going to happen Everytime but Anet doesn’t provide ANY chance with its current setup of 5 Aoe cap and down state.

And jsculls famous rants that have no facts in them start again

Guys that take the time and spend the focus learning classes ins and outs and build synergy groups shouldn’t be held back from playing. Same as a zerg can exist….my team should not be limited by Anet’s mechanics….and since launch we have been.

Jscull.2514:

snowaugar.1823:

Jscull.2514:

Estus.1726:

Raf.1078:

Here is what I’m reading in this thread:

My group of leet hyper skilled players cannot compete against a zerg of lesser skilled players. Therefore, ANet must tilt the game towards our type of playstyle because….

Well, this is where you guys are losing it. Cause I’ve yet to read single decent reason for tuning the game to small group play over large group play. More people zerg than play small groups.

The zerg is tkittenense of wvw. Zergs can carry more suppy for siege…can drain supply camps to deny the enemy and speed build siege on the spot for the conquest of keeps & towers.

Not to say that there isn’t a place for small group play…but not at the expense of other forms of play.

I agree. it boggles my mind that people in this thread actually wants to discourage large scale group battles in a MMORPG. What do people want? If more than 20 people are in a certain radius of each other they randomly start to drop dead?

SPVP seems to be what ANET had in mind for small groups. WvWvW IMO was designed for three massive armies to go toe to toe with each other.

Dude you act like “wvw” is the first open world system…. “this is meant for large scale battles” news flash couple other games have had open world systems… And those games allowed for Zergs to happen. They also allowed for skilled coordinated groups to smoke said Zergs if the Zergs really were filled with new players who don’t fully understand pvp. This thread is not saying don’t allow Zergs, it’s saying allow for another play style at the same time.

What I hear as a counter argument is "we in the Zerg populus enjoy our press 1 epic combat and don’t want any “leet” players to ever effect our gameplay". To use your own saying, “tough it’s wvw my 5 smoked you 20+, you guys absolutely should have beat us but didn’t and in wvw that’s how it goes”. That’s not going to happen Everytime but Anet doesn’t provide ANY chance with its current setup of 5 Aoe cap and down state.

And jsculls famous rants that have no facts in them start again

Guys that take the time and spend the focus learning classes ins and outs and build synergy groups shouldn’t be held back from playing. Same as a zerg can exist….my team should not be limited by Anet’s mechanics….and since launch we have been.

I’ve never been limited when havoc by mechanics run 10 and tend to not have to many problems until faced with 40 can’t win em all gotta choose my battles carefully buut never been hindered by the mechanics

Estus.1726:

Raf.1078:

Here is what I’m reading in this thread:

My group of leet hyper skilled players cannot compete against a zerg of lesser skilled players. Therefore, ANet must tilt the game towards our type of playstyle because….

Well, this is where you guys are losing it. Cause I’ve yet to read single decent reason for tuning the game to small group play over large group play. More people zerg than play small groups.

The zerg is tkittenense of wvw. Zergs can carry more suppy for siege…can drain supply camps to deny the enemy and speed build siege on the spot for the conquest of keeps & towers.

Not to say that there isn’t a place for small group play…but not at the expense of other forms of play.

I agree. it boggles my mind that people in this thread actually wants to discourage large scale group battles in a MMORPG. What do people want? If more than 20 people are in a certain radius of each other they randomly start to drop dead?

SPVP seems to be what ANET had in mind for small groups. WvWvW IMO was designed for three massive armies to go toe to toe with each other.

WvW is a massive battlefield where players can participate in whatever way they want but my problem is when players from one form of pvp want to change the game so their style of game play has an edge. Spvp with most other arena style pvp in MMOs gets old and boring very quickly if you are running around the same maps with Rock/Paper/Scissors group make-ups.

WvW is a completely different beast to Spvp. I can roam around and kill other roamer all day long but that gets boring after a will and I rather just do spvp/Obsidian Sanctuary if i m in the mood for those small scale fights. WvW gives me and others the option to be part of a large force, scout/roaming, join smaller groups, skirmish in the jumping puzzles, level lowbies or even farm. WvW is not a balance area just like war its a 24 hr a day massive player battlefield and not a 24 hr a day battle-arena.

snowaugar.1823:

Jscull.2514:

snowaugar.1823:

Jscull.2514:

Estus.1726:

Raf.1078:

Here is what I’m reading in this thread:

My group of leet hyper skilled players cannot compete against a zerg of lesser skilled players. Therefore, ANet must tilt the game towards our type of playstyle because….

Well, this is where you guys are losing it. Cause I’ve yet to read single decent reason for tuning the game to small group play over large group play. More people zerg than play small groups.

The zerg is tkittenense of wvw. Zergs can carry more suppy for siege…can drain supply camps to deny the enemy and speed build siege on the spot for the conquest of keeps & towers.

Not to say that there isn’t a place for small group play…but not at the expense of other forms of play.

I agree. it boggles my mind that people in this thread actually wants to discourage large scale group battles in a MMORPG. What do people want? If more than 20 people are in a certain radius of each other they randomly start to drop dead?

SPVP seems to be what ANET had in mind for small groups. WvWvW IMO was designed for three massive armies to go toe to toe with each other.

Dude you act like “wvw” is the first open world system…. “this is meant for large scale battles” news flash couple other games have had open world systems… And those games allowed for Zergs to happen. They also allowed for skilled coordinated groups to smoke said Zergs if the Zergs really were filled with new players who don’t fully understand pvp. This thread is not saying don’t allow Zergs, it’s saying allow for another play style at the same time.

What I hear as a counter argument is "we in the Zerg populus enjoy our press 1 epic combat and don’t want any “leet” players to ever effect our gameplay". To use your own saying, “tough it’s wvw my 5 smoked you 20+, you guys absolutely should have beat us but didn’t and in wvw that’s how it goes”. That’s not going to happen Everytime but Anet doesn’t provide ANY chance with its current setup of 5 Aoe cap and down state.

And jsculls famous rants that have no facts in them start again

Guys that take the time and spend the focus learning classes ins and outs and build synergy groups shouldn’t be held back from playing. Same as a zerg can exist….my team should not be limited by Anet’s mechanics….and since launch we have been.

I’ve never been limited when havoc by mechanics run 10 and tend to not have to many problems until faced with 40 can’t win em all gotta choose my battles carefully buut never been hindered by the mechanics

Pretty sure anyone that doesnt fight in groups over 10 has lost fights due to terrible down state mechanics….a mosquito dies so therefore 3 guys rally? Right youve never experienced that. Also, AoE cap of 5? Terrible….should be at least 10-15 if not removed….Please dont tell me the mechanics have never lost you a fight when it happens everyday to real small mans.

AydenStar.4216:

Estus.1726:

Raf.1078:

Here is what I’m reading in this thread:

My group of leet hyper skilled players cannot compete against a zerg of lesser skilled players. Therefore, ANet must tilt the game towards our type of playstyle because….

Well, this is where you guys are losing it. Cause I’ve yet to read single decent reason for tuning the game to small group play over large group play. More people zerg than play small groups.

The zerg is tkittenense of wvw. Zergs can carry more suppy for siege…can drain supply camps to deny the enemy and speed build siege on the spot for the conquest of keeps & towers.

Not to say that there isn’t a place for small group play…but not at the expense of other forms of play.

I agree. it boggles my mind that people in this thread actually wants to discourage large scale group battles in a MMORPG. What do people want? If more than 20 people are in a certain radius of each other they randomly start to drop dead?

SPVP seems to be what ANET had in mind for small groups. WvWvW IMO was designed for three massive armies to go toe to toe with each other.

WvW is a massive battlefield where players can participate in whatever way they want but my problem is when players from one form of pvp want to change the game so their style of game play has an edge. Spvp with most other arena style pvp in MMOs gets old and boring very quickly if you are running around the same maps with Rock/Paper/Scissors group make-ups.

WvW is a completely different beast to Spvp. I can roam around and kill other roamer all day long but that gets boring after a will and I rather just do spvp/Obsidian Sanctuary if i m in the mood for those small scale fights. WvW gives me and others the option to be part of a large force, scout/roaming, join smaller groups, skirmish in the jumping puzzles, level lowbies or even farm. WvW is not a balance area just like war its a 24 hr a day massive player battlefield and not a 24 hr a day battle-arena.

Rockstar we are not ARENA BASED pvpers…..our team is from daoc open world 8 manning……did it in WAR also…we dont want to have time limits or capture points…You are scared that 5 will come in a wallop you because you want lazy pvp.

TL:DR

Did the minute men of the colonies in the american revolutionary war complain about the British zerg when they were decimating them with guerilla attacks?

Assassin X.8573:

TL:DR

Did the minute men of the colonies in the american revolutionary war complain about the British zerg when they were decimating them with guerilla attacks?

Anet will complain when 1/3 of their pop leaves for a better game cuz their mechanics blow for player vs player…

It will be heaven, all the starter mmo’ers will be left with each other in zerg land.

Assassin X.8573:

TL:DR

Did the minute men of the colonies in the american revolutionary war complain about the British zerg when they were decimating them with guerilla attacks?

I’m sure they did, actually.

Jscull.2514:

Assassin X.8573:

TL:DR

Did the minute men of the colonies in the american revolutionary war complain about the British zerg when they were decimating them with guerilla attacks?

Anet will complain when 1/3 of their pop leaves for a better game cuz their mechanics blow for player vs player…

It will be heaven, all the starter mmo’ers will be left with each other in zerg land.

Yeah…it will be really nice to play with adults again.

Raf.1078:

Jscull.2514:

Assassin X.8573:

TL:DR

Did the minute men of the colonies in the american revolutionary war complain about the British zerg when they were decimating them with guerilla attacks?

Anet will complain when 1/3 of their pop leaves for a better game cuz their mechanics blow for player vs player…

It will be heaven, all the starter mmo’ers will be left with each other in zerg land.

Yeah…it will be really nice to play with adults again.

Lol good one.

Jscull.2514:

Assassin X.8573:

TL:DR

Did the minute men of the colonies in the american revolutionary war complain about the British zerg when they were decimating them with guerilla attacks?

Anet will complain when 1/3 of their pop leaves for a better game cuz their mechanics blow for player vs player…

It will be heaven, all the starter mmo’ers will be left with each other in zerg land.

starting with you, TODAY… one can only hope… right?

Sunreva.8714:

B) Also, another tweak that would help to eliminate bads roaming in huge groups, would be to make it so that capture points (camps, towers, keeps) only issue a fixed value of XP/world XP which get distributed to players in the capture radius. For example, a supply camp could be worth 5000 points (arbitrary number)

A million times this. So +1 my friend.

Coming from a full time WvWer, I can blatantly say I’m frustrated by the current climate of WvW.

Here are a few things that bother me..
*High pop servers matched with lower pop servers
How can a high pop server like Dragonbrand be matched with Maguuma and expect anything but 150k to 50k scores.
*The amount of lag a large Zerg can bring.
I call it my zerg senses. Sometimes I can tell a Zerg is in the area because my frame rate drops to 10. Some times I can port, but then why should I have to port?
*The realism issue.
A small group should be MORE mobile and a larger group should be LESS mobile. Yes, this would lead to discussions of a debuff for zergs. I don’t think that should be ruled out, but I have another suggestion.

That’s not to say I’m crying about these things. I look at Zerg warfare as a challenge. I grab my five closest buddies and give fighting them off my best shot. But at a certain point, you simply lose something. When there are zergs of 50+ running around against servers that can barely field 50 people per map, we have an issue with matchups.

It is easy to say that the game mode was designed for large scale pvp, “if you want small scale, go to spvp.” That is pathetic! SPvP is a joke, although I thank the Devs for working towards a better game there. I play WvW because I love working with my character that I spent time perfecting. I customized my armor pieces, my sigils, runes and weapons. The fact you can’t do that the same way in SPvP keeps me away.

So to continue addressing “If you’re not in a Zerg, go home.” type responses, I’d say what about scouting parties, special operations teams and demolitions. You need Zerg warfare because it keeps this game interesting and it is unique at this point to GW. I don’t disagree that it should stay.

I have several suggestions from myself and my friends on ways to begin bringing other facets of the game back to WVW.

*I love Sunreva’s suggestion of risk vs reward. If nothing else, this should be added in tomorrow. It at least makes it worth it to roam alone or with a few other scouts.
-This alone would fix a lot by encouraging certain people to group up into smaller zergs at a lower level. It just keeps maps more populated with that population spread out.
*Dedicated roles
-These are something to consider as a great way of encouraging people to step into different roles. For example, why not include a Scout, Soldier and Defender role. You pick one as you enter the battlefield. Your tag you receive from selecting one of the above grants you several buffs and several debuffs. For example.. Solder gives you: “Safety in numbers. You receive a bonus from being in 1000 range of at least 15 allies. Soldiers move with a 40% running cripple when in 1000 range of 15 allies” Scouts receive different bonuses and so do defenders. These don’t have to be exactly like what I just described, but they truly would branch people out more.

*Changes to outmanned buff
-This is a way of getting around debuffing zergs. Make outmanned an area buff that only pops up when you’re severely disadvantaged in numbers in a 1500 area radius around you. This could allow small man teams to escape zergs instead of getting steamrolled by them.

*Losing mercenaries
-Perhaps a way to make the mid week more fun for servers with more people and maybe a little more fair for servers without people. This would entail some breakout type scenarios.. For example:
-If a server has held onto a garrison/keep they need to pay its defenders an increasing amount of gold, otherwise they turn a mutiny and help the server they originally belonged to.
-If a server’s original territory has been taken for a long time, mid week, army patrols will begin roaming the streets. So just extra veteran guard/scout contingents around.

To close.. Yes not everybody will agree with everything I’ve said, but please realize I just am aiming at a little more reality/balance/fun. After all, who hasn’t been bored with WvW if your server is winning by 100k or losing by 100k. The most fun I’ve had in WvW is similar server matches that are decided by 5-10k points.

Good luck and happy roaming, comrades!

By the way, for anybody concerned with it, I’m a Maguuma Mesmer/Thief who roams small teams 100% of the time on the game.

Jscull.2514:

Assassin X.8573:

TL:DR

Did the minute men of the colonies in the american revolutionary war complain about the British zerg when they were decimating them with guerilla attacks?

Anet will complain when 1/3 of their pop leaves for a better game cuz their mechanics blow for player vs player…

It will be heaven, all the starter mmo’ers will be left with each other in zerg land.

A continued ability to create sensationalist numbers claim their validity without any “evidence”…apart from the" I know best syndrome"…

…………do you work for Fox news by any chance..