Guild Wars 2

I do enjoy being in zergs, but I also wish small teams could be more effective (or rather less ineffectual) than they are now. If you have taken a tower with only three people you are very lucky! Usually you get swarmed by the enemy zerg, or just another small team, before you can finish running supply to build. It would be more satisfying if a small havoc squad could actually cause more havoc. Addressing the supply capacity is a good option. I think the benefit to small groups outweighs any positive or negative effect it may have on zergs themselves. Doubling supply may make a single enemy zerg more powerful, or it may reduce their size and split them up. It just depends on how that server is organizing themselves. But in the end small teams would be more powerful too.

I play in tier 8. The fight is different on this end of the spectrum from what you face in T1. In order to maximize the effectiveness of much smaller forces we have to find things we can impact with 2, 3 or five people. Since we very rarely have that larger force to execute a direct assault we have to starve, misdirect, surprise our opponent. As far as player capacity we never move without the +5 guild supply buff running. We always keep the force supplied because when the opportunity presents itself you have to be ready to hit and get it. Also all three keeps in a borderland can be opened with a single catapult per objective. So with a guild buff and a guild catapult you can open a keep with two players and 30 supply. Will this small force succeed every time? Not likely but more then once we have taken a keep with three people.

Phlogus.2371:

I play in tier 8. The fight is different on this end of the spectrum from what you face in T1. In order to maximize the effectiveness of much smaller forces we have to find things we can impact with 2, 3 or five people. Since we very rarely have that larger force to execute a direct assault we have to starve, misdirect, surprise our opponent. As far as player capacity we never move without the +5 guild supply buff running. We always keep the force supplied because when the opportunity presents itself you have to be ready to hit and get it. Also all three keeps in a borderland can be opened with a single catapult per objective. So with a guild buff and a guild catapult you can open a keep with two players and 30 supply. Will this small force succeed every time? Not likely but more then once we have taken a keep with three people.

So doubling player supply capacity would help you guys out significantly. Less running supply, and more effectiveness

Also in Tier 1, keeps do not fall to one catapult per objective. Unless the borderlands are literally empty.

Hayashi.3416:

There’s a very easy way to buff havoc squads without buffing zergs.

1. Raise tolerance for Outmanned, so it procs when your world’s players are half or less of an opposing worlds forces OR your world has 10 players or less, regardless of opposing forces.
2. When a world is Outmanned, allow all players in the world to carry 20 supply instead of 10.
3. When Outmanned fades, current supply carried by players remain held, but any new pick up of supply will be back to 10.

This should encourage people to start attempting to cap Outmanned borderlands, and in doing so draw a few people away from each zerg.

If a zerg moves to a borderland, it will fade Outmanned before anyone from the zerg can possibly pick up supply, so 60×20 is impossible.

Zerg players are unaffected, as 60×10 is still more than enough supply. There’s also little appreciable difference, as even if 10 people decided to move to a BL, 50 people are still in the zerg.

By the way, I run a guild specialising in small-group tower (and occasionally Keep) captures, using golems in conjunction with rams/superior rams. It’s not impossible to take a tower with 2-3 people (and almost guaranteed with 4+), but it involves running a golem from a supply camp to the tower, which is unfairly expensive to use on the Commander.

I highly dislike zerging because in those circumstances, results of battle are generally dictated by the number of people, and each person in the zerg adds very little battle power to the overall power of the zerg (2.5%?)… whereas in havoc squads, a skilled player may represent up to 30-40% of the power of a 5-man squad alone.

I came in to say this. Outmanned should let you carry 20. No need for more changes than that. It’s a very simple way to buff the little guys while not having to directly debuff the Zerg. It should also add in with WvW traits and guild buffs for a maximum of 30.

I’d even be in favor of ditching the extra supply trait line, dropping max possible to 25, in light of this new mechanic. It’s ridiculously expensive for what you get, and would be a way to soften the outmanned buff if you felt you needed it.

This would let a small team take some undefended stuff easily, forcing the larger force to keep a close eye on their territories, but it would also allow for a stronger potential defense for the outmanned team. This could allow servers who don’t have full coverage to at least hold some things.

Wish list changes I would like to see is to lock supply in a fortification when upgrading. Upgrades cannot start until enough supply is available then it takes the prescribed time. This is a buff to defensive play as taking the camps would no longer be able to prolong the process once it’s started, but it is also a buff to offensive play as hitting a tower or keep right after the process starts would leave defenders with no supply.

Additionally, players should be able to access a time stamped log at a fortification’s quartermaster. With a tab noting the players who ordered upgrades, and a tab for who took supply. If possible include the ability to click names for chat/reporting purposes. This should go hand in hand with adding siege placements to the combat log and/or siege showing the owners name.

Basharic.1654:

Hayashi.3416:

There’s a very easy way to buff havoc squads without buffing zergs.

1. Raise tolerance for Outmanned, so it procs when your world’s players are half or less of an opposing worlds forces OR your world has 10 players or less, regardless of opposing forces.
2. When a world is Outmanned, allow all players in the world to carry 20 supply instead of 10.
3. When Outmanned fades, current supply carried by players remain held, but any new pick up of supply will be back to 10.

This should encourage people to start attempting to cap Outmanned borderlands, and in doing so draw a few people away from each zerg.

If a zerg moves to a borderland, it will fade Outmanned before anyone from the zerg can possibly pick up supply, so 60×20 is impossible.

Zerg players are unaffected, as 60×10 is still more than enough supply. There’s also little appreciable difference, as even if 10 people decided to move to a BL, 50 people are still in the zerg.

By the way, I run a guild specialising in small-group tower (and occasionally Keep) captures, using golems in conjunction with rams/superior rams. It’s not impossible to take a tower with 2-3 people (and almost guaranteed with 4+), but it involves running a golem from a supply camp to the tower, which is unfairly expensive to use on the Commander.

I highly dislike zerging because in those circumstances, results of battle are generally dictated by the number of people, and each person in the zerg adds very little battle power to the overall power of the zerg (2.5%?)… whereas in havoc squads, a skilled player may represent up to 30-40% of the power of a 5-man squad alone.

I came in to say this. Outmanned should let you carry 20. No need for more changes than that. It’s a very simple way to buff the little guys while not having to directly debuff the Zerg. It should also add in with WvW traits and guild buffs for a maximum of 30.

I’d even be in favor of ditching the extra supply trait line, dropping max possible to 25, in light of this new mechanic. It’s ridiculously expensive for what you get, and would be a way to soften the outmanned buff if you felt you needed it.

This would let a small team take some undefended stuff easily, forcing the larger force to keep a close eye on their territories, but it would also allow for a stronger potential defense for the outmanned team. This could allow servers who don’t have full coverage to at least hold some things.

Wish list changes I would like to see is to lock supply in a fortification when upgrading. Upgrades cannot start until enough supply is available then it takes the prescribed time. This is a buff to defensive play as taking the camps would no longer be able to prolong the process once it’s started, but it is also a buff to offensive play as hitting a tower or keep right after the process starts would leave defenders with no supply.

Additionally, players should be able to access a time stamped log at a fortification’s quartermaster. With a tab noting the players who ordered upgrades, and a tab for who took supply. If possible include the ability to click names for chat/reporting purposes. This should go hand in hand with adding siege placements to the combat log and/or siege showing the owners name.

In T1 you very infrequently have outmanned. Usually there is a queue for all borderlands, and especially EB. A change focused on the outmanned buff, does little to nothing. If you reduce the stored supply in all keeps/towers to 200, you make it very difficult for a zerg to fill up on supply for an all out attack. If you make it so that towers/keeps lose all their supply when they flip, then if the zerg performs an all out attack using a massive amount of supply, the attack ends when they flip their objective. With these two zerg supply limits in place, it then becomes safe to raise player supply capacity to 20. You don’t need the outmanned buff to dictate this at all.

A Lizard Bolting Skin.7426:

In T1 you very infrequently have outmanned. Usually there is a queue for all borderlands, and especially EB. A change focused on the outmanned buff, does little to nothing. If you reduce the stored supply in all keeps/towers to 200, you make it very difficult for a zerg to fill up on supply for an all out attack. If you make it so that towers/keeps lose all their supply when they flip, then if the zerg performs an all out attack using a massive amount of supply, the attack ends when they flip their objective. With these two zerg supply limits in place, it then becomes safe to raise player supply capacity to 20. You don’t need the outmanned buff to dictate this at all.

Isn’t supply leftover from flipping camps a much greater problem than supply leftover from towers? I just don’t see much of an effect from removing tower supply on flip. It’s 100 max, that doesn’t even build 2 sup rams. The attackers probably blew more supply than that unless the target was paper/undefended, in which case it probably didn’t have much/any supply to begin with.

A Lizard Bolting Skin.7426:

In T1 you very infrequently have outmanned. Usually there is a queue for all borderlands, and especially EB. A change focused on the outmanned buff, does little to nothing. If you reduce the stored supply in all keeps/towers to 200, you make it very difficult for a zerg to fill up on supply for an all out attack. If you make it so that towers/keeps lose all their supply when they flip, then if the zerg performs an all out attack using a massive amount of supply, the attack ends when they flip their objective. With these two zerg supply limits in place, it then becomes safe to raise player supply capacity to 20. You don’t need the outmanned buff to dictate this at all.

Maguuma is technically T2 and we are outmanned on 2-3 maps at all times.