Guild Wars 2

Are golems game breaking?
Do to bring more or less to the overall WvW tactical gameplay?
Do they provide any skill at all to the game other then, porting into a zone with 80 people, triggering the BO event, and instantly popping 8 golems that can burn down a keep gate in seconds?

I have a suggestion to bring GOLEMS into some form of balance. I would hate to actually limit the number of golems a team wishes to spend their funds on, but i also dislike the idea that a fully upgraded keep, can be lost instantly without anone even having time to counter it by golems, now more so then ever, because you can still roll up to a keep with 20 golems, and not flag a battle marker. Pretty broken.

So my suggestion is. Have each alpha golem count as 10 players and each omega count as 15. So that if an army brings to many golems to a keep, it will flag a battle marker at the keep.

This game should be about the fight, not about taking fully upgraded keeps down in seconds just because a team can bring 24 golems to a keep, and not flag it as a battle.

SM trebs, golem rush, invisible stomping, portal bombing, solo-contesting, thief damage, camp buff (fixed version), glitching into gates, invisible circles, culling, lag, bugged queue, orbs..

theres a lot that should be fixed..

Golems are awkward, delicate and only function well when used in numbers. They are most effective when used in surprise attack and after that they often get dumped in a keep somewhere and forgotten, due to the impractical nature of their use.

They also function as a way of breaking stalemates where everything is fully upgraded and foot slogging just ends in death and frustration.

I would say that they are fine and the general opinion I see when golems bash something in is that if people wish to spend that much cash on an attack, then they deserve to see success.

Steelo.4597:

SM trebs, golem rush, invisible stomping, portal bombing, solo-contesting, thief damage, camp buff (fixed version), glitching into gates, invisible circles, culling, lag, bugged queue, orbs..

theres a lot that should be fixed..

Not least of which is 90% of tiers have big population tine slot imbalances.

Can a Golem stop an invasion? Can a Golem defeat a zerg?

Who would win… 8 Golems vs 8 Balistas… even odds, no interference, Golems start 2 seconds away.

Golems are very powerful in VERY specific circumstances when used efficiently. I’ve seen a 10 Golem charge get burned because of 1 bad port. I’ve seen 20 and 30 Golem rushes fail due to bad timing/ overwhelming enemy siege.

They are fine. If they were the end all, be all of WvW, we’d see more use of them.

put siege behind the door, use oil, have spotters,place people at garrison watergate on top with a superior arrowcart. have people chack everything in the bl and walk around. golemrushes on your own borderland usally get poetaled from spawn.most of the time the takem out near victors/heros/champions then takem through the water past the ruins right to watergate. yes golems are powerful ad even more if timewarp is there…but hey huge golemrushes failed before…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD2pt08VDoo

selan.8354:

put siege behind the door, use oil, have spotters,place people at garrison watergate on top with a superior arrowcart. have people chack everything in the bl and walk around. golemrushes on your own borderland usally get poetaled from spawn.most of the time the takem out near victors/heros/champions then takem through the water past the ruins right to watergate. yes golems are powerful ad even more if timewarp is there…but hey huge golemrushes failed before…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD2pt08VDoo

Prior to a Golem rush you kill off the canons and oil. Rarely have I NOT seen this happen. As far as Arrow Carts. We lost a fully upgraded Garrison w/ 2 Superior AC’s and 3 normals. Golems took those out before we took them down.

As for spying, the new ‘thing’ to do is veil them and just walk them up. What happened as well when we lost Garrison. We actually had the siege manned because, as I stated, the group came in before and cleared oil and cannons they could clear.

The only real ‘counter’ to this is to have a major force stationed at Garrison 24/7 to be there immediately to counter, since they can bust through 1 gate and get the next one kitten close to down before you can get there and react.

Golems are melee ranged, fragile, slow, and you have to defend them. They get destroyed by siege weapons.

Game breaking would be the horrendous lag on T1 maps where you can’t cast any skills for 10 seconds.

I think you have all not read what i have actually posted.

I’m not saying to change golems attacks, or anything else about them other then, to actually create a battle marker on the mini map when they are used with more then 2 in an area.

Heck i would even be more inclined to say, that if 3 or more golems are in a radius of each other, an event marker is triggered and followed around them on the map.

Personally I like them, because they mean I have to spend less time killing a static object with a bunch of HP and have more time killing players.

That said I can see where you are coming from in that you can rush an upgraded keep fast if you get the timing right. It does kind of require you to get everything done properly and be a bit lucky though. If you get scouted early on you’re probably gonna get kitten . If there is someone scouting in the keep, you might make it through first and maybe even second gate, but you’ll probably have an enemy force there to stop you. It’s also a heavy investment in terms of supplies, so there is definitely a fairly large risk involved.

I can’t count how many times someone has forgotten to take out oil or cannons before attacking a door with golems. I easily have over 100 hours just “watching” the TC garrison watergate, and there have been numerous times where after calling out the golem rush realizing (something like) ‘holy crap, those are omegas and why is the cannon still up?’. I have had many a good laugh tee’ing off on golems with a cannon…and watching people try to retreat with them or just eat it.

Golems are balanced around risk vs reward. The reward being they chew through gates like crazy, and the risk being that they’re slow and vulnerable until they get to the gate.

Problem is, when you introduce a Mesmer portal into the equation, it removes the risk leaving only the reward, thus making golems overpowered.

Golems are easy to stop if you have scouts. They do eat up paper gates fast, but a few superior arrow carts and they are doomed.

If 80 people show up, they don’t need golems and are just zerg bored with nothing better to do.

Personally, I think towers and keeps are too easy to take overall.

hex.3218:

If they were the end all, be all of WvW, we’d see more use of them.

and we very nearly never see them…

Used properly, a group of golems can help things out a great deal.

I’ve also seen groups of golems wiped out when a port went wrong, someone made a mistake, or the other side just got lucky and caught them somewhere.

They seem fine to me. It’s not like I see golems all over the place constantly.

Though mobile, they’re really slow and ineffective against infantry, not to mention expensive. So I think they’re fine.

Several arrow carts behind gates are a strong counter, however the south inner garrison gate never gets reinforced when the keep is upgraded, meaning you only have 1 and a half gates defending that route.

But I think the main balance issue with golems is mesmer timewarps….5 golems and 3 mesmers will take down a reinforced gate in about 30 secs of staggered timewarps.

The title shoulda been “Golems – Gate breaking”

if u got an upgraded keep and u see a zerg come wiping cannon and oil. then u also notice that for the past hr the enemy team has commited no major resource for an attack. u also notice they have no outmanned buffed, if ur a decent commander u should be expecting golems. and considering they just clear cannon and oil and a keep, extra precaution in that location.

major golem assault are actually semi predictable. also just because u lost outer/inner doesnt mean u lose a keep, plenty of keep got enough chokes in the lord room that when properly seiged with enough defenders makes it near impossible to take.

There are many ways to counter golem rushes! Whether it be large amounts of AoE/siege pouring down on them. Or having your force push out and wipe out the enemies outside while having siege rain down on them. Having scouts can easily counter golem rushes pretty efficiently as well, making them near impossible to work if you can respond each and every time.

I have more issues with trebs than golems honestly. Garrison → Bay trebs and the worst offender being SMC. Then again I think keeps are too easy to defend as it is. Anyone with a brain can throw down 5-10 arrow carts (my personal best is 15 on hills N outter, but i was bored) and stop anything from coming in. Meaning it’s a slow treb game after that…

I think they should make it so that time warp doesn’t work on golems though… not sure about portals since that’s less of an issue.

Golems causing swords wouldn’t be terrible I suppose, but anything more would be too much. At the same time the whole point of the swords update was to encourage scouting.

Make golems visible on the map at all times.

Problem solved.

I also think rams should cost more supply. “Ninja-capping” is extremely harmful to the game and it’s baffling to me that anyone supports ways of making it easier (like the change to orange swords).

Golems should not be able to use portals, thats all.
Portal bomb = smash keyboard = 0 skill needed to play :S

I’m liking the idea of :
-Golems not being able to use portals.
or
-Golems appear on the mini map
or
-More then 2 Golems in any given area creates a battle marker.

Golums are powerful yes but they take such a tremendous amount of resource, planning and protection they are rare and a non issue IMO. If a team is able to get the resource to build a bunch of golems enemies are pretty much SOL anyways.

Steelo.4597:

SM trebs, golem rush, invisible stomping, portal bombing, solo-contesting, thief damage, camp buff (fixed version), glitching into gates, invisible circles, culling, lag, bugged queue, orbs..

theres a lot that should be fixed..

I think only the last half of those are actual problems… some of them aren’t even problems in and of themselves but aspects of a problem you later re-mention, making them redundant.

Moddo.7105:

Not least of which is 90% of tiers have big population tine slot imbalances.

And that’s not something that can actually be “fixed” by some miracle patch. ANet cannot force people to play fairly.

Dag.1257:

selan.8354:

put siege behind the door, use oil, have spotters,place people at garrison watergate on top with a superior arrowcart. have people chack everything in the bl and walk around. golemrushes on your own borderland usally get poetaled from spawn.most of the time the takem out near victors/heros/champions then takem through the water past the ruins right to watergate. yes golems are powerful ad even more if timewarp is there…but hey huge golemrushes failed before…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD2pt08VDoo

Prior to a Golem rush you kill off the canons and oil. Rarely have I NOT seen this happen. As far as Arrow Carts. We lost a fully upgraded Garrison w/ 2 Superior AC’s and 3 normals. Golems took those out before we took them down.

As for spying, the new ‘thing’ to do is veil them and just walk them up. What happened as well when we lost Garrison. We actually had the siege manned because, as I stated, the group came in before and cleared oil and cannons they could clear.

The only real ‘counter’ to this is to have a major force stationed at Garrison 24/7 to be there immediately to counter, since they can bust through 1 gate and get the next one kitten close to down before you can get there and react.

like i said u might wanna station a person at the watergate.Usually ull see a mesmer running up and putting port sown. the guards will react way before that.I used to do the watergate shifts and would start shooting with my s.arrowcart the moment i see someone getting up there.

plus there is a mortar(if upgraded) at SE garrison gate that can aim right at the water gate 5% shot. mortars will take a golem down extremely fast. if the gate is reinforced the superior will take care of those 8 golems.

Even if they get through watergate they will die at inner gate if u have more s. arrowcarts, catas, ballistas in lordsroom(and they should always be there)

and if u wanna try to put a treb into the lordsroom, which we usually do around SEA primetime and we don’t have many people on. Trebs will destroy rams and golems in 2 , 3 hits…

ErlendR.6107:

Golems should not be able to use portals, thats all.
Portal bomb = smash keyboard = 0 skill needed to play :S

not really true. portals have to be well timed and a portalbomb often fails…u do need skill for both of it…we destroyed many portalbombs before.

Wierd, I actually think Gollems are underpowered lol. At least for their price.

You miswrote the title , it’s “Golems are Gate breaking”

Golems are fine imo. A rush need a lot of coordination+experience. Otherwise It’ll fail.
If the idea for adding marker is ever put in, then Golems will be used as a detraction. E.g Build one near LV while planning to full attack hill.

They aren’t really game breaking considering that:

- you usually need four of them to do anything meaningful
- a small zerg can eat through them
- you need good coordination and a lot of patience to use them (nearly every time I have been part of a golem push we have had to WP them out, multiple times, because there was barebones defense waiting for them)
- they are kitten against characters
- they are kitten against characters
- they are kitten against characters
- if mesmers are helping them out they leave the landscape dotted with portals, in plain sight of your scouts (no scouts? that’s why you don’t appreciate that they are balanced, how the 25-man battle marker working out for you?)

The only thing that unbalanced about them is that they look so kitten cool; but their bark is WAY louder than their bite.

I’m glad Selan posted that video. I was actually looking for it before I scrolled to see if anyone else did. That video makes me laugh every time

Golem rushes aren’t as frequently used as they used to be on T1. At least they really don’t bother me enough to take notice. Now Treb’s on the other hand…. As my newer main has been an Ele, that should tell you how much of a love/hate relationship I have with Treb’s. :-) Love to use them, hate trying to defend against them. Though can do both effectively. So, it really all works out in the end.

There is nothing wrong with golems. If you have a scout at your keep, golems wouldn’t be an issue. They get eaten alive by arrow carts. End thread/

Nothing wrong with them. Thing with golems is that in certain situations, a big golem rush is just about the only way to break a stalemate. They can very easily be countered by appropriately placed defensive siege, take ages to walk/portal and are expensive both in gold and supply.

I like the fact that there is an option for a surprise speed siege.

chronometria.3708:

Golems are awkward, delicate and only function well when used in numbers. They are most effective when used in surprise attack and after that they often get dumped in a keep somewhere and forgotten, due to the impractical nature of their use.

They also function as a way of breaking stalemates where everything is fully upgraded and foot slogging just ends in death and frustration.

I would say that they are fine and the general opinion I see when golems bash something in is that if people wish to spend that much cash on an attack, then they deserve to see success.

Yeah. And personally I think they should sell a “Royal authority parchament” in the item mall. This item would immeditately claim any single building in the map to your world. It would cost a lots of gems, but if people wish to spend that much cash to capture a building, they deserve to see success.

testpig.5018:

Are golems game breaking?

Simple Answer: No.

Golems are on par to all other means of Siege. They have their use and their situation where they are good, and have their weakness as well.

Ungood.3054:

testpig.5018:

Are golems game breaking?

Simple Answer: No.

Golems are on par to all other means of Siege. They have their use and their situation where they are good, and have their weakness as well.

There’s a hard siege limit based on geography, and golems bypass that. They are completely unique from other siege weapons

if there is a golem coming, if you have 30 seconds and 9 people you can kill them at a TOWER with REGULAR arrow carts. if you need proof well, here ya go:

Master of Timespace.2548:

chronometria.3708:

Golems are awkward, delicate and only function well when used in numbers. They are most effective when used in surprise attack and after that they often get dumped in a keep somewhere and forgotten, due to the impractical nature of their use.

They also function as a way of breaking stalemates where everything is fully upgraded and foot slogging just ends in death and frustration.

I would say that they are fine and the general opinion I see when golems bash something in is that if people wish to spend that much cash on an attack, then they deserve to see success.

Yeah. And personally I think they should sell a “Royal authority parchament” in the item mall. This item would immeditately claim any single building in the map to your world. It would cost a lots of gems, but if people wish to spend that much cash to capture a building, they deserve to see success.

no, SM would get traded every few minutes, N O !!!!!

Pinko.2076:

Ungood.3054:

testpig.5018:

Are golems game breaking?

Simple Answer: No.

Golems are on par to all other means of Siege. They have their use and their situation where they are good, and have their weakness as well.

There’s a hard siege limit based on geography, and golems bypass that. They are completely unique from other siege weapons

That is because Golems do not have a ranged attack. Can you imagine how game Breaking 20 Arrow Carts defending a keep would be? Or dropping 50 Trebs? Geeze, talk about just destroying the game.

Seriously, Golems are about the weakest and least deadly of any siege item out there except maybe for rams.

Bedstain.6735:

Golums are powerful yes but they take such a tremendous amount of resource, planning and protection they are rare and a non issue IMO.

Pfft, maybe on YOUR server.

I long to see an entire day go by without a 5-golem attack on at least one keep.

These PvE people are running around with 200g in their pocket and nothing better to buy. Puzzle jumpers get oodles of free golems. The only real limit on them is supply and when SM or keeps can build up 1500+ supply, it’s cheap to send 5 golems, which go through a door like a hot knife through butter.

My Dead Characters.9517:

if there is a golem coming, if you have 30 seconds and 9 people you can kill them at a TOWER with REGULAR arrow carts. if you need proof well, here ya go:

The whole point of golem attacks is that they can hit places and be inside before defenders have a chance to respond.

I bet I can log into your server today and look around and find plenty of towers and possibly keeps that have 0-1 defenders. 5 golems and a couple mesmers and I’ll be on your keep lord before you can get 8 other people to show up.

Golems are not for PvP.

Golems are for avoiding PvP.

Slamz.5376:

Golems are not for PvP.
Golems are for avoiding PvP.

That is pretty much the case point right there.

And as another poster stated… ALL siege in the game is restricted by a limit within radius.. Golems ignore this, and thus break the game balance mechanic when doing so.

here is just a random video out of hundreds and thousands on youtube showing how golems require no skill, avoid the fight, and just ignore all the rules of balanced siege mechanics the game offers..

Heck, maybe another idea would be to have the golems projectile barrier be perma. But also, no other golems can enter it.

Golems are balanced around risk vs reward. The reward being they chew through gates like crazy, and the risk being that they’re slow and vulnerable until they get to the gate.

Problem is, when you introduce a Mesmer portal into the equation, it removes the risk leaving only the reward, thus making golems overpowered.

How many golems does it take to kill Siegerazor?

I chuckled when I read 5 Golem attack. To me, 5 Golem’s isn’t a rush

oh, and where are these places in PvE where you can have hundreds of Gold? That’s only available from Dungeon Runners. You are not getting that much gold from meandering about Orr even.

Get rid of them. WvW isnt about Ninja tactics, its about battles against others.

bradderzh.2378:

The title shoulda been “Golems – Gate breaking”

ROFL.

I love golems. Though I think an adjustment with the swords wouldn’t be a bad idea too.