Guild Wars 2

jamesdolla.3954:

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

I defend the map everyday. I believe you’re trying to hard too push your claims but no one is buying it man.

What claim? That the map sucks and most people hate it? That’s a fact.

It’s a fact that DBL was voted in by the majority… It’s also fact that DBL is not going anywhere, so your thread is futile.

Caliburn.1845:

The desert BL is in most matches slightly less played on than the Alpine BLs. But all the BLs are much, much less played than EBG in every match-up consistently.

So really just get rid of everything except EBG.

are you mad it lags enough as it is. also not every one like to play in a lag blob fest.

Mylerian.9176:

Taxidriver.2043:

no kidding ppl who voted to keep it dont even play that map they go queue EB first.

That’s because they polled everyone in GW2. A lot of PVE folks voted cause they thought it was cool. The WvW peeps mostly did not want it. At least that has been what I have noticed.

nope a lot of people like the dbl. it is a change from the alpine bl. some day people play in the alpine other day in the dbl. change of scenery is not bad once and a while. of course when you are out number almost on all map you will probably go less to the dbl since some place are a little more hard to get. example: the fire keep lord. in that room a small number of defender can take down a bigger attacker group.

I would say it also depend on the server organization. some always play big number on one map only and leaves no one or almost no one on the other map. in that case nothing is upgraded or sieged or defended. so the strategy can be different to make ppt depending on different factor.

stephanie wise.7841:

Caliburn.1845:

The desert BL is in most matches slightly less played on than the Alpine BLs. But all the BLs are much, much less played than EBG in every match-up consistently.

So really just get rid of everything except EBG.

are you mad it lags enough as it is. also not every one like to play in a lag blob fest.

I’m pretty sure it was a post just to point how silly the argument of “the map is less played than the other” is in this discussion… Like he said, following this logic, we should just get rid of all maps and play only EBG.

Desert BL should be removed and re-purposed in fact their are many maps in this game that should be re-purposed.

Also you have rotation or Simultaneous

The people who hate it are going to vote simultaneous because if you voted for a rotation it means youd be stuck with all three maps as the desert map for months on end instead of just having one constant one. No one wanted rotation because forces a pure DBL map scheme on WvW players from time to time while the later lets people ignore the DBL and play on Alpine constantly.

Go into World vs world, some ghost thief has exploited himself into garrison, spend 15 mins chasing him out….. 5 mins later hes respawned and back in our garrision while west keep is dealing with 20 people and their uncounterable cataspot ( the one that the cata shoots through but you can’t hit it back with anything from your side….. Yeah this map sucks.

desert BL is objectively a bad map

the ONLY argument i’ve heard about it being good is from people who want to avoid other players (by extension, guilds use it to avoid randoms as well). Why is it a real argument that a multiplayer map is good because you want to avoid other players??

Alpine borderlands isn’t even close to a good map. It’s only hindsight that we appreciate it. Before DBL that kittening map was never played, but then Anet showed us how bad design can go.

Ulion.5476:

Because of DBL A-net will create another wvw map. Hopefully it will be more zerg focused, instead of roaming focused like DBL. Frost themed, where towers can treb keeps, and it should be more compacted to get to the action faster.

Are you high? More zergs maps? BEcause besides dbl every single map is zerg friendly. what they need to do is add 1 more perma waypoint to dbl for each side so it gets easier to get around and actually reward more roaming. not every map needs to be a ZERG map.

Swagger.1459:

jamesdolla.3954:

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

I defend the map everyday. I believe you’re trying to hard too push your claims but no one is buying it man.

What claim? That the map sucks and most people hate it? That’s a fact.

It’s a fact that DBL was voted in by the majority… It’s also fact that DBL is not going anywhere, so your thread is futile.

Yes most people hate it. And yes the community voted to keep it in. BUT this is because the community knows some, a small minority of players like the desert border, and so voted to keep at least one map as the desert border to be fair to those players. If the community really had a choice, it would be to get rid of it and make a new true wvw border map which everyone would like.

Digikid.7230:

Go into World vs world, some ghost thief has exploited himself into garrison, spend 15 mins chasing him out….. 5 mins later hes respawned and back in our garrision while west keep is dealing with 20 people and their uncounterable cataspot ( the one that the cata shoots through but you can’t hit it back with anything from your side….. Yeah this map sucks.

Yup, if you have it and the other team is all about the pvd it’s rip your bl. might as well just let em have it and you won’t have to deal with it.

Aphs.9528:

there should be a revote . The only people i see there is people doing dailes or people who are stuck in queues …..

the last vote for that bl was hacked. it was rigged in that almost every vote included desert bl in some shape or form. there was not a vote that says keep it off. demand a revote and investigation into this matter.

Swagger.1459:

Move on to more productive topics peeps, dbl was voted in by majority and it’s not going anywhere…

the voting process was rigged. it’s not by majority when all the options are to have it included in some form. move it and call it another edge of mists map.

dragon.8071:

the last vote for that bl was hacked. it was rigged in that almost every vote included desert bl in some shape or form. there was not a vote that says keep it off. demand a revote and investigation into this matter.

dragon.8071:

the voting process was rigged. it’s not by majority when all the options are to have it included in some form. move it and call it another edge of mists map.

You problably missed the poll where they asked if the map should be removed then. Guess what option won?

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

The poll has ended! After removing all votes for “Don’t Count My Vote” the final results are:

65.5% No: The Desert Borderland map should continue to be supported.
34.5% Yes: The Desert Borderland map should be permanently disabled.

This means that the Desert Borderlands map will continue to be supported. Next, the Mixed Borderlands poll will be re-run to determine how the Desert Borderlands map will re-enter play. Thank you to everyone who voted!

You lost and Desert Borderland is here to stay. Suck it up and stop crying…

Some of you completely missed the point saying “I voted for Desert Borderlands”. Anet NEVER gave us the option to NOT have that map. And this was the final straw for a lot of hardcore WvW players including commanders. Fixed polls do not help the community and that was what anet gave us. The options were not do we want DBL, but how often we wanted that map on rotation. Anet refused to admit thier failure with the map and the fact only 1 in 100 wvw players ever went to the DBLs (and normally for short periods). And decided the “poll” about the map would not include the option to have the map perma taking away. So no matter what anyone voted on to keep it on rotation weekly, bi-weekly or monthly didnt change a single thing anet ignored the masses again and we never had the option to have that map taken away.

The map is 100x bigger than it needed to be resulting in 10mins + to get from one side to another if a person dies etc and making its layout complicated to get around at the best of times = no one plays it.

So if one side focuses on DBL with zerg for ppt it will likely take hours before the paper is flipped back if not days, because normally no one wants to go there in place of EB. Thats why the first said way before beta dbls that it would replace EB map on a weekly basis. Instead they again changed their minds and decided to keep EB and instead use the new map for a 4th map. Less population in wvw than ever and they give us ANOTHER map making no sense…..

Then we have “linking” instead of deleting half the severs (bottom tier) they instead link servers in a completely unbalanced way. Anet simply dont understand their own game and STILL after 4 years refuse to listen to the REAL wvw players or common sense that would have saved this game mode.

Anet GAME OVER 1000s quitting who only played wvw because you cant seem to get basics. Give them more golemrush weeks which can be perma exploited again and then leave the exploit in game as u did before…………..

I voted for DBL because I love the design of the map and I thought that Anet wouldn’t just lazily put it there, that they would continue to improve it.

Unfortunately they left it there with all its problems and then moved on to making polls about stuff that should have been fixed 2 years ago. They couldn’t even add more waypoints to make traveling faster and the middle area is all useless wasted space.

I wish Anet wouldn’t take years just to fix simple stuff.

I’m ignoring the entire wall of text because of this stupid assumption right on start:

clone wars.9568:

Anet NEVER gave us the option to NOT have that map.

Please re-read the quote in my post above yours. There WAS a vote asking if DBL should have been discontinuated or not. And DBL won.

Jeknar.6184:

I’m ignoring the entire wall of text because of this stupid assumption right on start:

clone wars.9568:

Anet NEVER gave us the option to NOT have that map.

Please re-read the quote in my post above yours. There WAS a vote asking if DBL should have been discontinuated or not. And DBL won.

Agreed… if anyone saw that poll and didn’t see that they had the option to vote against DBL completely then they didn’t read it well enough. It was there, I voted to KEEP DBL on at least one map… and happy for it.

Desert Borderlands are good, but are in need of desperate alteration. There are fun battles to be had in the map, particularly with the powerful bosses.
My main issues with desert map:

1. Garrison is very difficult to defend
2. Towers give no advantage – they are pointless

Other people I talk to believe:

1. The objectives are too far apart
2. There is nothing in the middle of the map, this could be a good fight-spot if the ruins were sunk low into the ground

It would be interesting to see these things examined with some seriousness by the developers. I mean, I appreciate that they’ve changed things considerably from their original, unpopular vision to something that more players enjoy, but I’d love to see the map make more sense.

TL;DR The Desert Borderland is a beautiful map which is even better with the changes. It should have a few more adjustments, too, though.

There’s a reason when this game came out that they gave 3 realms the exact same bl. if you give out different maps one team either gets a massive advantage or disadvantage. They are not fixing the problems on the desert bl. the bloodlust has been a problem forever and still they have done nothing about it. Just get rid of it and put in alpine until you fix this crap at least.

people also forget that the devs made a reddit comment post right before the poll launched that they are more likely to create maps in the “future” if DBL was voted to be kept. This definitely had a sway in the amount of people that voted to keep this terrible map in.

jamesdolla.3954:

Digikid.7230:

Go into World vs world, some ghost thief has exploited himself into garrison, spend 15 mins chasing him out….. 5 mins later hes respawned and back in our garrision while west keep is dealing with 20 people and their uncounterable cataspot ( the one that the cata shoots through but you can’t hit it back with anything from your side….. Yeah this map sucks.

Yup, if you have it and the other team is all about the pvd it’s rip your bl. might as well just let em have it and you won’t have to deal with it.

Or, yknow, you could defend it. With well placed siege, it takes half the bodies that alpine requires to defend.

Jayne.9251:

jamesdolla.3954:

Yup, if you have it and the other team is all about the pvd it’s rip your bl. might as well just let em have it and you won’t have to deal with it.

Or, yknow, you could defend it. With well placed siege, it takes half the bodies that alpine requires to defend.

You telling him to go play on DBL. PREPOSTEROUS! Why would anyone do that?
/sarcasm

The people vote for the 1 desert bl because anet said they will make the 3rd bl map. The problem is how long we have to wait for the 3rd bl map.
The WvW overhaul is a joke as the desert bl have no bloodlust. If the map is not balanced , do you think population balance will work? A___ , what a shame? Do they think cannon blueprint and repair hammer are more important than adding bloodlust to the desert bl and the 3rd bl map?

So, the three reasons to play on DBL are:

1. You’re in a zerg and you play for PPT and you want to ktrain the map
2. You’re in a zerg and you play for PPT and your server has coverage for 4 maps
3. You’re small scale/roamer and you play for PPT

The PPK players play ABL/EB because they’re better for PPK

I avoid desert border if I can, but tonight the group commander ordered us all to go there, so I thought “well, it cant be that bad, just this once”.

Just getting from our main keep to the air keep meant that we needed a diploma in navigation. We lost a third of the group just getting there. We then fought for about a minute and kicked out the intruders. After that we spent a good five minutes lost in the air keep trying to work out where the broken walls were.

And then, to really drive the point home, the commander told us all to move out in teamspeak and we all immediately almost fell to our deaths just trying to go towards the exit and finding that we had ended up over some massive drop. Luckily the commander saw it and stopped in time, but from his voice on teamspeak he was pretty shocked by this and it completely broke his train of concentration.

The enemy on this awful borderland is the terrain. It is confusing, full of twists and turns and contains massive drops, many of which are actually inside keeps and structures. Why is it that we can easily die just trying to navigate from one keep gate to another? This map was clearly made for gliders and so long as it doesn’t have them, it will just be a torturous experience to play on it. So we try very hard not to.

Swamurabi.7890:

The PPK players play ABL/EB because they’re better for PPK

Explain to me what’s the difference between DBL and ABL that affect PPK so much that “only PPT players play there”?

Or, yknow, you could defend it. With well placed siege, it takes half the bodies that alpine requires to defend.[/quote]

This is just wrong…… The East keep in DBL is easier to defend, however the garrison and west keep are much much worse to defend then their alpine counterparts. Even without all the possible exploit into all 3 keeps, inner garrison can be trebbed from NN, west keep inner has the uncounterable cataspot that everyone uses……. No-one can use siege to actually defend in garri/ west keep, therefore the only way to break a siege is to suicide rush their siege with decent numbers/ kill the enemy so if you’re outmanned, WK and garrison are essentially undefendable.

Not sure why people are saying it’s easy to defend in dbl? The cannons are practically useless, they don’t cover anything and seem to be placed backwards. Same goes for the mortars completely useless.

Scouting is a pain with all those long runs… PvD’ers just use cata or treb and defenders can’t do anything but wait around hope for even numbers.

I actually would enjoy a third map so three diffrent borderlands and this one Zerg unfriendly forcing small roaming groups. If this is even possible … People will still zerg …

Jeknar.6184:

Swamurabi.7890:

The PPK players play ABL/EB because they’re better for PPK

Explain to me what’s the difference between DBL and ABL that affect PPK so much that “only PPT players play there”?

DBL doesn’t lend itself to open field fights (PPK) like ABL does. ABL is also smaller so that in the five areas of ABL where you can have all three sides gather, when two sides fight and one loses, it doesn’t take long for the losing side to respawn, regroup and return to the fight.

I remember spending most of a raid in the area between bay and garri, where all three sides waited to 1v1 with the loser sitting out and regrouping. This lasted for HOURS. It was the best time I’ve had in GW2. It could never happen in DBL.

What is unfortunate for WvW is that like YB’s version of PPT took the fun out of playing, Mag’s version of PPK is taking away what’s left.

Or, yknow, you could defend it. With well placed siege, it takes half the bodies that alpine requires to defend.

Digikid.7230:

This is just wrong…… The East keep in DBL is easier to defend, however the garrison and west keep are much much worse to defend then their alpine counterparts. Even without all the possible exploit into all 3 keeps, inner garrison can be trebbed from NN, west keep inner has the uncounterable cataspot that everyone uses……. No-one can use siege to actually defend in garri/ west keep, therefore the only way to break a siege is to suicide rush their siege with decent numbers/ kill the enemy so if you’re outmanned, WK and garrison are essentially undefendable.

I have counters for everything. Including MaguumieBears.

It’s possible.

Also:

chronometria.3708:

Just getting from our main keep to the air keep meant that we needed a diploma in navigation. We lost a third of the group just getting there.

This made me chuckle.

MMO-Darwinism FTW!

Deli.1302:

There was a vote.

People voted for it.

Democracy kittenes.

That vote is about as useful as people who sign petitions to keep a local pub open, or as a pub, and swear blind they are either regulars or will go there often. Loss making pub is forced to stay open, hardly any of those that said it was a wonderful place and they would use it actually do so.

They should have tracked those that voted for it, and force them to have to log in to it if they log into wvw and stay in it for at least one hour before being allowed on the other maps.

Then have another vote about keeping it or ditching it with the above rule applying.

displayname.8315:

Scouting is a pain with all those long runs… .

This is the only thing I dislike about DBL. However, it’s compensated by the gates/walls being thicker — so it means you actually have the time to run to the attack. It’d be nice to have a system of portals between all the main keeps and towers, however; not a waypoint exactly, but part of an upgrade.

As for cannons and mortars — they’ve never been the go-to for defence. A well-placed treb in hills (air keep) managed to keep 10 of us out with one person one week. I was impressed and vowed to learn the placement. And I did

As for garri; there are solutions to proxy catas, etc .. just experiment.

Would like to see us get points for destroying siege too. PPS (points per siege) + PPK + PPT = balance!

Just the deployable siege though, canons aite.

I can’t believe this rubbish is being raised again. Comparative player numbers are irrelevant or we would only have EB.There was a vote, you lost……by a clear margin.

I’ve read two excuses for that defeat here:

- more PvE’ers follow this forum and vote in WvW polls than “real WvW players”.
- People voted for DBL despite the fact a majority of them hated it because of their altruistic desire to provide a map for the few

Really…….really, they are both so laughable it’s not worth commenting on. You just have to accept that your view of who “real WvW players” are was, and is, wrong.

I’d like to suggest an equally stupid explanation for the DBls being relatively quiet. “Casuals”/QQ’ers have never bothered learning the DBL, so feel too scared to go there in case they get lost or accidentally walk off a high ledge!

Jong.5937:

I’d like to suggest an equally stupid explanation for the DBls being relatively quiet. “Casuals”/QQ’ers have never bothered learning the DBL, so feel too scared to go there in case they get lost or accidentally walk off a high ledge!

You shouldn’t have to work to enjoy something. It’s either enjoyable and then you put the effort in to learn more about it, or it’s not and you don’t look back. I’m sure I could plaster your quote with analogies but why bother, it’s common sense, if something doesn’t grab your interest within the first few minutes it likely never will.

Nuzt.7894:

Jong.5937:

I’d like to suggest an equally stupid explanation for the DBls being relatively quiet. “Casuals”/QQ’ers have never bothered learning the DBL, so feel too scared to go there in case they get lost or accidentally walk off a high ledge!

You shouldn’t have to work to enjoy something. It’s either enjoyable and then you put the effort in to learn more about it, or it’s not and you don’t look back. I’m sure I could plaster your quote with analogies but why bother, it’s common sense, if something doesn’t grab your interest within the first few minutes it likely never will.

Actually, DBL for newer players does teach an important skill….staying on tag.

However, running back from spawn does pose problems for new to map players if you have to run past air or fire keep. The only thing you need to learn on ABL is where the safe drop areas are.

It’s less about learning and more about interest, if I buy a new game I can usually tell if I’m going to like it or not with the first 5-10 min, I won’t bother putting in the effort to learn if I already know I’m never going to play it. So learning to stay on tag is irrelevant if the map is not enjoyable.

Jayne.9251:

As for cannons and mortars — they’ve never been the go-to for defence. A well-placed treb in hills (air keep) managed to keep 10 of us out with one person one week. I was impressed and vowed to learn the placement. And I did

As for garri; there are solutions to proxy catas, etc .. just experiment.

The way the side keeps are underneath the attackers negates pretty much any counter trebs. Your friend must have got lucky with a PvD group using bad placement.

I find the cannons and morters in alpine have good use, especially inner. Its like they actually designed alpine for WvW, where this dbl sure feels like a repurposed map, as many have stated.

If your basis of DBL being justified as a map is that democracy is good in game design, you honestly should rethink your entire life.

Running your game design based on player democracy is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard of. Democracy among game devs is even terrible, that’s how balance in this game has gotten so bad.

displayname.8315:

Jayne.9251:

As for cannons and mortars — they’ve never been the go-to for defence. A well-placed treb in hills (air keep) managed to keep 10 of us out with one person one week. I was impressed and vowed to learn the placement. And I did

As for garri; there are solutions to proxy catas, etc .. just experiment.

The way the side keeps are underneath the attackers negates pretty much any counter trebs. Your friend must have got lucky with a PvD group using bad placement.

I find the cannons and morters in alpine have good use, especially inner. Its like they actually designed alpine for WvW, where this dbl sure feels like a repurposed map, as many have stated.

People tend to forget all about inner cannons on dbl during an attack on garri. They work the same way hills cannons do on alpine.

That said, don’t rely on non-placed siege. Use shield generators smartly.

Jayne.9251:

People tend to forget all about inner cannons on dbl during an attack on garri. They work the same way hills cannons do on alpine.

That said, don’t rely on non-placed siege. Use shield generators smartly.

Dbl garri cannons have some limited use.. Still nowhere near the placement of alpine. The cannons and mortars on inner alpine garri have way better coverage.

The cannons on fire and air keeps are practically useless. They cover the actual gate and that’s it period, none of the inner keep, none of the outer keep. As apposed to alpine where inner cannons can actually cover holes in the outer walls and gates.

Again its a repurposed map not designed for WvW and it shows. If this is supposed to be competitive red team has a big handicap. TC lost last week as red, MAG loosing this week as red.

jamesdolla.3954:

No blood lust

Super hard to get around

No one goes to them but ppters

The server that has the red BL is put at a disadvantage

every keep can be glitched into

Do us all a favor and get rid of them. thx

I agree on everything he said, Desert BL is a waste of space that should be rotated with EOTM (just so the dev’s who developed Desert BL don’t feel bad). EOTM map is way better than Desert BL.

Nuzt.7894:

It’s less about learning and more about interest, if I buy a new game I can usually tell if I’m going to like it or not with the first 5-10 min, I won’t bother putting in the effort to learn if I already know I’m never going to play it. So learning to stay on tag is irrelevant if the map is not enjoyable.

The Desert Borderland had forum hipsters whinging from the get-go. They are the same casuals who say they “only play for fights”, “hate PPT”, etc. – to me this is boring, mindless trend-following. Think for yourselves!

jamesdolla.3954:

No blood lust

Super hard to get around

No one goes to them but ppters

The server that has the red BL is put at a disadvantage

every keep can be glitched into

Do us all a favor and get rid of them. thx

Players say Devs, we want new maps
And Devs granted new map
Players say Devs, maps are too big, small populated servers can’t cover/manage
And Devs removed new map
Players say, Devs, we made a mistake, we want the map back
And devs took a poll and added map back

See any pattern here at all OP?

Crapgame.6519:

jamesdolla.3954:

No blood lust

Super hard to get around

No one goes to them but ppters

The server that has the red BL is put at a disadvantage

every keep can be glitched into

Do us all a favor and get rid of them. thx

Players say Devs, we want new maps
And Devs granted new map
Players say Devs, maps are too big, small populated servers can’t cover/manage
And Devs removed new map
Players say, Devs, we made a mistake, we want the map back
And devs took a poll and added map back

See any pattern here at all OP?

It looks so easy to create fiction and be an apologist for poor game decisions. Thanks for the example!

Pinko.2076:

It looks so easy to create fiction and be an apologist for poor game decisions. Thanks for the example!

Care to elaborate? Or…did you miss the sarcasm?

Can’t have it both ways. Scream for a new map, scream when you find things wrong it, scream when it is removed, scream bot put back, devs poll, and add it back. Now back to screaming about its removal. Make up your bloody mind already.

Most ironic thing in the OP’s reason is no one goes there but those who care about ppt. Isn’t that helping?

actually, after playing it a while, i kinda like DBL….. absence of bloodlust is the only flaw there…

Crapgame.6519:

Players say Devs, we want new maps
And Devs granted new map
Players say Devs, maps are too big, small populated servers can’t cover/manage
And Devs removed new map
Players say, Devs, we made a mistake, we want the map back
And devs took a poll and added map back

See any pattern here at all OP?

Correction:
Some players told devs they wanted new maps. I was never in this group. I think other WvWvW related things should be solved first: Like population imbalance, better profession/skill balance, better rewards, getting rid of lag & bugs. These remain still to be solved and since Arenanet has limited resources, I hope they are NOT wasting their limited resources in making a 3rd borderland map.

The new map, Desert Borderland, wasn’t properly tested and the devs ignored the feedback, releasing it in a crappy form. Later on they made several improvements to it, but it is still in many ways inferior to the Alpine border, which enables much faster paced fluid game play and has less gimmicks.

I voted for DBL + 2 Alpine, because I rather have this combination than 3 months of DBL only and then 3 months of Alpine only. If there would have been choice to have endless months of the original Alpine border (with lake) I would have surely voted for that.