/fix this forum’s pagination!
Folks should stop blaming the glicko and instead blame themselves. The reason it’s so obscene is because of how players themselves stacked upward.
You need to ask why players did that and stop blaming folks for the design of something that is completely outside of their control. Do you not understand why DB continues to have bandwagons and implosions for their non-SEA population or why SoS has such difficulty getting EU? Do you still not get why non-NA populations are most numerous in the higher tiers? EU servers don’t see this because there’s no such thing as an official SEA or official OCX server amongst EU.
Lol so you’re blaming the stagnation of NA on SEA players and NA EU players? Oh cmon now. We have those too in EU.
The whole stacking fiasco was player-created. Getting that shiny 1st place became more important than the game itself. NA wvw has always been more of a job than fun. And, for some, that’s their definition of fun, amd that’s fine too.
NA stacked. And recruited. And bought guilds with “war chests”. And pillaged the lower tiers purposefully to get MOAR players, leaving the lower tiers tumbleweed cities. And even when they were full, they kept recruiting in some bizarre MMO arms race. And then kept recruiting, despite a stalled glicko and repetitive matches, that everyone complained about so much, that Anet had to step in and force the situation.
So yes, the bulk of the existing issues can be directed at the playerbase itself and its lack/resistance to change and fix itself.
But to base all the stagnant glicko woes at the feet of two time zones is a bit disrespectful at least.
Edited to add: There’s a running joke about NA vs EU.
NA server: Come join us! We have TONS of room! Our QUEUES are short! COME COME!
EU server: Oh crap, our server just went to “very high.” Maybe if we stand very very still they won’t notice? … or more blatantly “Shoo! go away! No more!”
It’s not that EU’s antisocial (well maybe a few are, haha), it’s more that the way NA obsesses about being No.1, is the same way EU obsesses about spreading out to ensure there’s consistent change in matches and good fights/challenges — and you’ll note that EU doesn’t really have the same glicko issues, even WITH Sea and NA guilds on most servers. Absolutely not the same numbers as you see in NA, but we have them. And they give some servers more advantages over the others — still we don’t see that mass stacking that you see in NA to compensate for one server having more or less.
(edited by Jayne.9251)
Jayne, just because you spent a lot of time early in this game recruiting for TC when TC didn’t need it doesn’t mean everyone else in NA does. You don’t think anyone in NA tells people not to come either? They come anyway!
Stagnation is caused by players wanting balance, not No. 1.
You say that players in NA just want to be No. 1, but over time many came to realize that that’s boring. So is being on the opposite end of that no fun. Players want balance because the matches are more fun so they’ll go to where they can get it. That’s why T1 became 100% glicko locked. That’s why T2 became 100% glicko locked for the first time in history. It’s also why T3 is now almost 100% glicko locked for the first time in history.
You were gone for a large amount of time from this game when the population in the lower tiers collapsed in such a way that T5 resembled T8 of the past. At one point there were literally no T3-sized servers. And yes, that has a lot to do with Dragonbrand’s SEA population holding that server up around T2-T3 when the rest of the timezones were more like T4-sized. That was not balance so players move. HoT announcement brought a lot of new players and returning players. Without it, WvW would look very different today.
(edited by Chaba.5410)
Jayne, just because you spent a lot of time early in this game recruiting for TC when TC didn’t need it doesn’t mean everyone else in NA does. You don’t think anyone in NA tells people not to come either? They come anyway!
Xushin buying guilds. Mag for T2 2015.
And lower tier servers also have warchests btw.
Just two quotes, not to cause a fight, just showing you your own examples.
EU servers don’t have war chests.
Well maybe SFR does, but they’re the only ones.
The rest of us kind of just huddle and rock ourselves to sleep whenever a new bouncing batch of bandwagoners arrive. At least they rotate fairly frequently, no cash incentive needed.
Plus ça change, plus c’est la même ….
My whole point is players should be accountable and actively try to fix things themselves so they can enjoy greater variety and matches. Instead, it took Anet to step in and force it.
(edited by Jayne.9251)
Jayne, just because you spent a lot of time early in this game recruiting for TC when TC didn’t need it doesn’t mean everyone else in NA does. You don’t think anyone in NA tells people not to come either? They come anyway!
Xushin buying guilds. Mag for T2 2015.
And lower tier servers also have warchests btw.
Just two quotes, not to cause a fight, just showing you your own examples.
EU servers don’t have war chests.
Well maybe SFR does, but they’re the only ones.
The rest of us kind of just huddle and rock ourselves to sleep whenever a new bouncing batch of bandwagoners arrive. At least they rotate fairly frequently, no cash incentive needed.
Plus ça change, plus c’est la même ….
My whole point is players should be accountable and actively try to fix things themselves so they can enjoy greater variety and matches. Instead, it took Anet to step in and force it.
Those examples are not at all inconsistent with the idea that players are seeking balance and not just stacking to be No. 1. You used them without providing any explanation for why you used them. All you’ve done is prove by my examples the kind of things that players actively do to try to fix it so that they get closer matches and not blowouts.
Mag for T2 is poking fun at Xushin. He’s been using his funds to balance T3, not to stack Mag for T2. Mag doesn’t want T2 because they’ll get badly imbalanced match against the rank 4 server and SoS’s OCX.
Mag doesn’t want T2 because they’ll get badly imbalanced match against the rank 4 server and SoS’s OCX.
Scared to fight outnumbered? Can’t zergbust? Dosen’t know how to kill a tail to force a good fight? All of the above?
OCX timezone never has been about fights I guess. Judging by T2 is all about running from even numbers and full nomads pirate ship combat.
Mag doesn’t want T2 because they’ll get badly imbalanced match against the rank 4 server and SoS’s OCX.
Scared to fight outnumbered? Can’t zergbust? Dosen’t know how to kill a tail to force a good fight? All of the above?
OCX timezone never has been about fights I guess. Judging by T2 is all about running from even numbers and full nomads pirate ship combat.
Yea that’s part of it. The combat mechanics don’t exactly help out the smaller force against a larger force. Not saying they should either. There’s other adjustments that could be made, as many have spoken with regards to the outnumbered buff.
Jayne, just because you spent a lot of time early in this game recruiting for TC when TC didn’t need it doesn’t mean everyone else in NA does. You don’t think anyone in NA tells people not to come either? They come anyway!
Stagnation is caused by players wanting balance, not No. 1.
You say that players in NA just want to be No. 1, but over time many came to realize that that’s boring. So is being on the opposite end of that no fun. Players want balance because the matches are more fun so they’ll go to where they can get it. That’s why T1 became 100% glicko locked. That’s why T2 became 100% glicko locked for the first time in history. It’s also why T3 is now almost 100% glicko locked for the first time in history.
You were gone for a large amount of time from this game when the population in the lower tiers collapsed in such a way that T5 resembled T8 of the past. At one point there were literally no T3-sized servers. And yes, that has a lot to do with Dragonbrand’s SEA population holding that server up around T2-T3 when the rest of the timezones were more like T4-sized. That was not balance so players move. HoT announcement brought a lot of new players and returning players. Without it, WvW would look very different today.
I don’t think you’re correct on this one. What you say could be true if not for the fact that a massive amount, if the not the majority amount, of transfers are to bandwagon servers. Take, for example, Dragonbrand (multiple times, including now, which make no mistake they’re a huge bandwagon right now, Dh is a bandwagon and they slaughtered us), Maguuma (on their rise back to t3), CD (when they were in t4 and in season 2 which saw more of a mini bandwagon), HoD (recently in the HodB fusion, or even bigger during 2nd tourney).
There are many, many more examples I could list, but I hope my point is taken. I think it’s blatantly obvious that people in NA do not move for balance. If they did, we’d have more of an EU situation. Instead, people here tend to move for community and/or position (that is, they like/know/admire some people or the community of server X, OR they like the position and population of server X).
I’ll grant you there’s some definite transfers for balance. But not all are that way in NA, indeed not even most. That’s why we have so many lopsided matches, so many bandwagons going up and down (in fact, as I’ve been here since launch probably like you, in my time I don’t know if there was ever a period without at least one active bandwagon server, maybe for a short time here and there but otherwise don’t think so).
Also the lower tiers collapsed 100% because people transferred upwards (mostly into bandwagons). It wasn’t people quitting or anything like that, as someone who was a member of said lower tiers, it was mostly because people wanted to stack bandwagons or t2 servers.
Yea that’s part of it. The combat mechanics don’t exactly help out the smaller force against a larger force. Not saying they should either. There’s other adjustments that could be made, as many have spoken with regards to the outnumbered buff.
The combat mechanics help out the skilled players against the unskilled players. Numbers just makes you fight a little different.
I don’t buy the we tank because our OCX excuse. I don’t see FA using that excuse and they have as good a reason to.
(edited by displayname.8315)
Dragonbrand (multiple times, including now, which make no mistake they’re a huge bandwagon right now, Dh is a bandwagon and they slaughtered us), Maguuma (on their rise back to t3), CD (when they were in t4 and in season 2 which saw more of a mini bandwagon), HoD (recently in the HodB fusion, or even bigger during 2nd tourney).
I wouldn’t even call their populations bandwagons at this point. We shouldn’t see any of the game breaking bandwagons now that the full status workarounds are gone.
They are all pretty well populated and hopefully we can get some good matchup variation going now.
Instead, people here tend to move for community and/or position (that is, they like/know/admire some people or the community of server X, OR they like the position and population of server X).
Arius,
That’s a good way to look at it. That’s not necessarily stacking to be No. 1 nor moving for balance. It kind of encompasses both effects.
Also, us players have imperfect knowledge. It is really difficult to determine exactly how many others are moving to a server and the delays with glicko and now the population status change make it harder. Not everyone pays attention to discussions happening on this forum or the other one nor do they do their due diligence in scoping out their destinations. And glicko is some sort of voodoo that most players don’t understand.
Looking back on what people have been saying and going back on topic, I think this idea would be better suited to occur on and off, perhaps once every other month (or two). Maybe ArenaNet can make it the new season format, except every server is in the pool and it is not separated into Gold/Silver/Bronze so the servers at each of the old thresholds can intermingle. I think that would satisfy me enough to be honest…
(edited by Michelangelo.1742)
Arius,
That’s a good way to look at it. That’s not necessarily stacking to be No. 1 nor moving for balance. It kind of encompasses both effects.
Also, us players have imperfect knowledge. It is really difficult to determine exactly how many others are moving to a server and the delays with glicko and now the population status change make it harder. Not everyone pays attention to discussions happening on this forum or the other one nor do they do their due diligence in scoping out their destinations. And glicko is some sort of voodoo that most players don’t understand.
Nono Chaba we can’t agree, the world might end. Think of the consequences to the very fabric of our reality!
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