Guild Wars 2

I am a ranger.

I use a longbow. (Which is terrible enough as it is.)

I used barrage.

Retaliation ate through 8k HP. And that’s not just bad timing, these guardians spamming group retal have this up 24/7.

Wtf? That’s half my health bar. Even 100% confusion before nerf wasn’t this terrible.

Heal Also, apparently some of the WvW maps don’t have the new retal reduction. I haven’t seen any update saying it’s fixed, anyway.

Personally I just fire off my barrage and see what happens I typically live.

It’s all about the speed of attacks you use. Barrage attacks multiple times extremely fast and ends up killing the ranger. I would run a beastmaster build/trap build with melee and kite the guardian while my pet kills him. Works quite well.

Glassy rifle engis/tanky warriors/sword dagger thieves also do very well, however

pistol pistol engis + d/d condition thieves + p/d or p/p thieves melt like butter

You pretty much have to run more tanky, and cut any multi hit, or multi projectile abilities out of your build.

There is no way around it for most until ret gets changed.

But keep in mind that this is a wide spread problem.

Almost every profession has a build or two hit by it, but it is more devistating for some than others. Ele, Engi, Ranger, and Necro being some of the worst hit, since the bulk of thier builds, or functional WvW builds are dependant on AoE multi hits or persistant GTAOE.

Grenade or Flamethrower Engineer is very difficult to play due to the massive amount of retal, and tossing grenades onto players buffed with that is the only time I am happy about the AoE limit.

Just plan on a weapon swap, and carry siege blueprints, that’s what I do.

I typically roam around in wvw and atm the majority of people i run into are rangers and thieves. The rangers are typically all using the beastmaster, regen, bunker build. The reason there are so many out is because its so kitten good and a littel retaliation isnt going to bring them down.
From a guardian point of view, we lack mobility and are easily kited. Basically most classes are able to get away from us and reset the fight. We need people to stick around in order to kill them.
I would suggest reviewing your build and simply paying attention to when the little fist icon is up if the >400 dmg is destroying you..

Better yet, try being a confusion mesmer. I hit them for 65 with confusion then get hit back for 375 from retaliation. Yeah, that’s fair…..

Protip: It’s not up 24/7. It’s up for 5-7 seconds max every 24 seconds with traited, and a few more seconds if they run greatswords.

TL;DR: Watch their boons.

Drakh.3128:

Better yet, try being a confusion mesmer. I hit them for 65 with confusion then get hit back for 375 from retaliation. Yeah, that’s fair…..

Confusion is based on condi damage, retal is based on power.

Bokitten.6591:

I typically roam around in wvw and atm the majority of people i run into are rangers and thieves. The rangers are typically all using the beastmaster, regen, bunker build. The reason there are so many out is because its so kitten good and a littel retaliation isnt going to bring them down.
From a guardian point of view, we lack mobility and are easily kited. Basically most classes are able to get away from us and reset the fight. We need people to stick around in order to kill them.
I would suggest reviewing your build and simply paying attention to when the little fist icon is up if the >400 dmg is destroying you..

What if the ranger isn’t running a boring bunker passive beastmaster healing build like everyone else and decides to run a different build that’s based more on damage?

I’m talking about zergs, not individual fighting.

Retaliation damage stacks, you realize this? If you give retaliation to 4 other people including yourself, and if I hit you all once with one attack, I take 5 × 400 = 2000 damage in that one instance?

Forget it, it’s obvious you didn’t read or comprehend my post at all.

iCryptik.1496:

Protip: It’s not up 24/7. It’s up for 5-7 seconds max every 24 seconds with traited, and a few more seconds if they run greatswords.

TL;DR: Watch their boons.

Drakh.3128:

Better yet, try being a confusion mesmer. I hit them for 65 with confusion then get hit back for 375 from retaliation. Yeah, that’s fair…..

Confusion is based on condi damage, retal is based on power.

There usually, just usually, just maybe, happens to be more than one guardian in a 40-50 man zerg.

Your using longbow, that’s your problem right there.

If you run enough vit, you should be fine.

Otherwise, stand by some allies while you’re firing Barrage, and when you go down they’ll practically insta-rez you.

Hopefully. :/

Drakh.3128:

Better yet, try being a confusion mesmer. I hit them for 65 with confusion then get hit back for 375 from retaliation. Yeah, that’s fair…..

your build is wrong them having a mesmer with condition build and glamour set up I hit them easily 400+ so fix your build and play smart.
People have just to stop whine if you dont understand one mechanic it is not broken you are just not good enough ask guildies ask your server mates to help you figure it out.
The only class that have some problems with retaliation is engineer because of the granages and flamethrower but you can always switch to dual pistol and just own them but it is up to player to react on the situation…

iCryptik.1496:

Protip: It’s not up 24/7. It’s up for 5-7 seconds max every 24 seconds with traited, and a few more seconds if they run greatswords.

Light fields + blast finishers.

C’mon, Al… I’m disappointed in you.

As a PP thief what I do is attack slower. Im not even kidding, much. I primarily use unload and switch to DD on a fight with most classes. But with a class with a lot of retaliation I use vital shot a lot. Bleed him and draw the fight out for a long time and go over multiple cooldowns. This tends to beat the bad players who use retaliation. If they are good though, Im not sure, but I think your screwed (in my case). Just to point out also, Im running a full zerker thief and will literally die to two bursts of my own unload whilst the retal class will still have 90% of their health pool.

I want to run a full berserker GS warrior build in WvW because it is more fun than axe/shield/mace pvt build. But people do not stand still to take my 100b. Please nerf walking.

Seriously, nerf this, nerf that, nerf everything that kills me so I can run the fragile build I like but not pay the price for it.

If we continue like this we are going to end up just spamming auto-attack and moving supply around. Hurray for class diversity …..

Run a damage build if you like, but accept that you will die more than the bunker builds. To confusion, to retaliation, to reflection, to everything.

PS: I don’t run a guardian, I play a mesmer and when in berserker gear retaliation does hurt. Being focused by rangers also hurts. I don’t think either should be nerfed just so I can continue running berserker.

I strip retaliation along with every other boon on the target as often as I can.

in small scale fights ret is not bad.

But if you take a close look at any organize guild group, you’ll notice that they stack a lot of guardians, warriors, and blast finishers.

It is not an issue to keep ret up, and you re-apply it so quickly that the limited amount of boon stripping does nothing.

The key thing to keep in mind a lot of this ret stacking is not an intentional tactic as much as it is a passive effect of running heavy on warrior / guardian.

Notice that most of the suggestions are to not use Barrage or any other high-hit-number channeling skill. That’s a problem with the game design, not the player.

Chaba.5410:

Notice that most of the suggestions are to not use Barrage or any other high-hit-number channeling skill. That’s a problem with the game design, not the player.

It’s not a problem with game design. Retaliation is working as intended. If you don’t want to nuke yourself, then attack slower, don’t attack at all, or strip boons. I like retaliation and it’s function. I don’t want to see it changed. I personally don’t run a build that gives me retaliation, but I also never felt like I lost a fight because someone had retaliation up. If I ever died and the person that beat me just happened to have retaliation up during the fight, it just means the same thing if the player didn’t have retaliation up; I was outplayed. Retaliation adds more depth to combat and I appreciate that level of complexity.

Lyndis.2584:

I am a ranger.

Problem found, you’re welcome.

Simple solution to retaliation: more vitality/max hp.

Think of it this way. The retaliation exists to make you smarter about using your attacks. So yes, maybe you can dish out 60k damage in a couple seconds to a mass of players. And for all that damage you’re going to have to eat, what, 8? Big whoop. You do have an option though: check if the enemy has mass retal running. If so, don’t use a barrage, or do at the cost.

Retaliation stacks duration so you can get more out of it having like mentioned above multiple sources, but yes it is supposed to be broken on some maps.

Just employ the services of a pocket guardian to give you your own source of retaliation, my guardian and my friend with his necro together had a field day vs 3-4 on a tower wall with an AC they literally stupidly killed themselves and the AC lol

I’m guessing stealth, thief burst damage and confusion has been nerfed to an “acceptable” lvl for the majority and now retaliation is the next on the “things to be nerfed” list? This is laughable.

I’m thinking ANet should put some thought into making another part to the game. We already have pve which is visually stunning hence the drop in fps. (There has to be some way of preserving all the work that went into creating the world and increasing the fps at user’s end.) And of course wvw/spvp. Here’s where ANet can copy paste their time and efforts but ppl that go to the “kitten vs kitten” can scrap it out but never die!!

Yep, they can go at it until 1 is in a downed state but never die. The downed player gets a 2 min god mode in which they can revive and seek revenge upon the offender that put them down.

Its not only about ranger.
Engi with grenades have tougher life. Hey Grenades are AoE and they supposed to be thrown into stack of enemies. But you throw 2 waves and you are dead. You can cancel Barrage with dodge when you see its taking your health too, but grenades fly so slow that you will toss 2 waves before first one even hits and have no way how to cancel them.

Bern.9613:

I’m guessing stealth, thief burst damage and confusion has been nerfed to an “acceptable” lvl for the majority and now retaliation is the next on the “things to be nerfed” list? This is laughable.

Yup.

And after this, ranged dmg. Cause you know, its not fun dying to someone who is not within range of your GS and you can’t hit back at them.

…..so a guy goes to the Doctor and says “Doc, it hurts when i do this” and the Doctor says “Stop doing that”……

Don’t barrage zergs since they will often have many players with retaliation up. Sorry but its that simple. There are many other things you could be doing instead of using the one skill from one weapon used in one scenario that gives you too much damage.

Retaliation has been nerfed so many times. It’s fine the way it is…..if people keep complaining like this anet is going to nerf it to stupid levels.

Hot Boy.7138:

Chaba.5410:

Notice that most of the suggestions are to not use Barrage or any other high-hit-number channeling skill. That’s a problem with the game design, not the player.

It’s not a problem with game design. Retaliation is working as intended. If you don’t want to nuke yourself, then attack slower, don’t attack at all, or strip boons. I like retaliation and it’s function. I don’t want to see it changed. I personally don’t run a build that gives me retaliation, but I also never felt like I lost a fight because someone had retaliation up. If I ever died and the person that beat me just happened to have retaliation up during the fight, it just means the same thing if the player didn’t have retaliation up; I was outplayed. Retaliation adds more depth to combat and I appreciate that level of complexity.

Wasn’t the answer to confusion to stop attacking? so you’re saying if you don’t want to die to retaliation stop attacking, the very reason confusion was nerfed to being all but useless.Confusion adds more depth to combat………

Don’t like a boon that someone else has? Then strip it away from them! At the very least, if you are getting hit by Retaliation and it isn’t going away … change your attack strategy!

I speak as an Engineer who gets hit very hard by retaliation if I don’t keep my eye on it … maybe that’s the secret? Maybe Retaliation should hit harder so that people will be forced to adapt or die.

Just kittening make it so barrage can’t hit you for 60k damage.

Hit 1 retal hit per barrage. 12 barrage hits = 12 retal hits (about 4k damage)

I’m a Ranger who uses the Longbow and have no such issues. I’ll take a guess that you’re running berserker gear..?

slower more powerful attacks, rapid fire can be good you take aprox 1k retaliation but you deal tons more.

My new record for confusion damage on my necro- 20k. That’s one skill doing 20k damage to me that is unblockable and isn’t even an active.

Yep, working as intended….

Maybe they should have confusion reflect 100% of retaliation damage back to the caster- would be hilarious to see some guardians suddenly drop dead. But then they would complain about the damage they received (being way less than they caused, but apparently that’s ok for rangers and engis), or would have to Learn to Play and not have it running when confusion hits (like they tell anyone who uses an aoe).

People should realise that throwing barrage out when your standing defending a wall is about all a ranger can do- SB skills won’t do anything, and your BM build is completely useless. It’s bad enough that half your damage ie your pet won’t even go out there and attack your target, and if it did it dies in seconds..

I tried a tanky BM build and almost died from boredom- sure, 1v1 it’s almost impossible to kill but all that leaping around got stale real fast, and i’m not the solo roaming type (or I’d play my thief more and stealth heal, etc…).

In small scale fights and 1v1 there is nothing wrong with retaliation damage, it’s when it’s scaled up in wvw that it becomes a problem.

All it needs is a simple cap on the amount of damage it returns per second and it would work just fine, say once per second for 380 damage per second, that’s 1900 damage on an average barrage – about the same damage as you cause to the average zergoid using barrage.

As a mesmer I try to ensure I have chaos armor on me at all times. When an enemy hits me with chaos armor on they can get 1 stack of confusion. If they have retaliation and continue to hit me the retaliation from the confusion ticks hits me like a truck.

How does this force me to play better?

I like the idea of retaliation but the execution is just bad.

Retaliation should be limited to one, maybe two triggers per second. Smarter design.

Kvitoq.9154:

As a mesmer I try to ensure I have chaos armor on me at all times. When an enemy hits me with chaos armor on they can get 1 stack of confusion. If they have retaliation and continue to hit me the retaliation from the confusion ticks hits me like a truck.

How does this force me to play better?

I like the idea of retaliation but the execution is just bad.

Really? Retaliation works on Confusion? Well if that’s the case why on earth doesn’t Confusion work on Retaliation? I’d love to see Mesmers and Guardians edging nervously away from each other, with the occasional pair of smoking boots when one or other had got careless. =)

In all seriousness if Retaliation does work on indirect attacks like Confusion then that is a broken mechanic.

I think it work on all conditions. Tried to throw shrapnel grenade on one group. And it was ticking me (cat paw with red numbers) for at least 6 secs.

Its not really the answer a lot of people like but one available tool that a lot of people overlook are consumables. Many people either use none or straight damage consumables rather than what covers their weaknesses.

You took 8k damage from retal over a 12 second barrage. If you were using an omnomberry pie, it has a cd of 1 sec which matches barrage ticks – assuming you crit atleast once per barrage tick (which is expected as a damage ranger), you’d have proc’d 12 omnomberry pie steals, at 325 hp each or 3900 hp stolen, mitigating half of the retaliation damage.

If thats not your game, then the standard strategy applies – focus fire when retal is a problem to drop single targets, AoE when there’s a window. Retal is supposed to counter wanton AoE, and while it does arguably have too much uptime countering it too readily its a matter of adapting unless that gets changed.

Hebril Amolebin.9817:

Drakh.3128:

Better yet, try being a confusion mesmer. I hit them for 65 with confusion then get hit back for 375 from retaliation. Yeah, that’s fair…..

your build is wrong them having a mesmer with condition build and glamour set up I hit them easily 400+ so fix your build and play smart.

Can you please post a recent screenshot of 400+ confusion per stack?

I think it needs around 5,000 condition damage to get 400+ per stack

kurath.9406:

Its not really the answer a lot of people like but one available tool that a lot of people overlook are consumables. Many people either use none or straight damage consumables rather than what covers their weaknesses.

You took 8k damage from retal over a 12 second barrage. If you were using an omnomberry pie, it has a cd of 1 sec which matches barrage ticks – assuming you crit atleast once per barrage tick (which is expected as a damage ranger), you’d have proc’d 12 omnomberry pie steals, at 325 hp each or 3900 hp stolen, mitigating half of the retaliation damage.

If thats not your game, then the standard strategy applies – focus fire when retal is a problem to drop single targets, AoE when there’s a window. Retal is supposed to counter wanton AoE, and while it does arguably have too much uptime countering it too readily its a matter of adapting unless that gets changed.

Smart man, that’s exactly how to counter retal. It’s too bad some people want to just blindly throw AoE out there from the back lines and be safe at the same time. Being focused by rapid fire hurts like hell. I could just as well complain that LB rangers are op. 5 of them focus firing can kill anyone they want, with retal being a non-factor. And your zerg should have retal up as well.

Also, I swear a third of HoD in wvw are all LB rangers and they do just fine. I would hate to see them all start raining barrage on people just because retal gets nerfed to jokes damage. They’d be like mobile ACs, and we all know how ACs go…

retaliation is based on power: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Retaliation

It would require around 2.7k power to do 400 damage. Of course having Might increases your power so that should be possible.

Relevant: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Retaliation-Does-more-damage-in-BL-than-EB/first#post2121497

DevonCarver.5370:

We’ve identified the problem with retaliation and are getting a fix in so that it will function as intended on all the maps. When it is fixed it will be mentioned in the release notes for that build.

“Just stop attacking” a zerg with 30+ seconds of retal. What do you think they’re going to be doing with their 30 seconds? Group hugs?

Retaliation stacking duration is a broken game mechanic. It should stack charges with short (5 seconds) duration. Each time the player with retal is hit, it would proc one charge of retaliation and remove that charge.

binidj.5734:

Kvitoq.9154:

As a mesmer I try to ensure I have chaos armor on me at all times. When an enemy hits me with chaos armor on they can get 1 stack of confusion. If they have retaliation and continue to hit me the retaliation from the confusion ticks hits me like a truck.

How does this force me to play better?

I like the idea of retaliation but the execution is just bad.

Really? Retaliation works on Confusion? Well if that’s the case why on earth doesn’t Confusion work on Retaliation? I’d love to see Mesmers and Guardians edging nervously away from each other, with the occasional pair of smoking boots when one or other had got careless. =)

Haha! Hilarious…

So…

• You know using Barrage will basically kill you if you fire it into a zerg.
• You still use Barrage, and promptly dies.

Sorry but I think this is working exactly as intended. Bad players die good players prevail.

I want an anti-retaliation trap, if there is an anti-stealth trap why not an anti-retaliation trap?. When I play p/p retaliation discourages me for playing, and it can not avoided with any p/p build that is clearly us unfair as stealth spamming.
I want my antiretaliation trap asap.
xD

Best regards,

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

EFWinters.5421:

So…

• You know using Barrage will basically kill you if you fire it into a zerg.
• You still use Barrage, and promptly dies.

Sorry but I think this is working exactly as intended. Bad players die good players prevail.

Because facerubbing a gate, instagibbing people that AoE you due to Retal is the pinacle of skill. Amiright?

Terrahero.9358:

EFWinters.5421:

So…

• You know using Barrage will basically kill you if you fire it into a zerg.
• You still use Barrage, and promptly dies.

Sorry but I think this is working exactly as intended. Bad players die good players prevail.

Because facerubbing a gate, instagibbing people that AoE you due to Retal is the pinacle of skill. Amiright?

I never claimed it was the pinnacle of skill. But it sure as hell shows a lot more skill than AoE’ing that zerg even though you have died because of it thousands of times already.

Get some toughness all you paper dpers