Guild Wars 2

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

johnnymiller.5968:

Prysin.8542:

Even good guilds aren’t THAT good. But a feeling of superiority drives them, this feeling or aura or whatever, makes others think they are that great. Even though they aint.

Ain’t that the truth. One of the guilds on my server said they did not want anyone else running with them – no problem. Then came the statement about their superiority to everyone else and how much they can achieve. Having witnessed some of the decisions by their commander its highly debatable. Although when something goes wrong apparently all the players lack skill; never the commanders fault.

Have to love Elitist guilds. Had a couple of these on the server for a bit, they typically transfer from server to server over time, they come in telling everyone how great they are but if you want to run with them you have to 100% rep, change your class and build to match what they want, etc., etc. They poach a few players and then jump to their next bandwagon. Funny thing was I saw them wipe many times to even numbers, wonder why they never posted those vids…

Yeah; there are rumours floating around this particular guild is on the move. I know they came from another server a few months back. Not as bad as one other guild we had on our server. Verbal abuse at non guild members was not uncommon if players stumbled upon them and tried to help, if non guild members were downed in a fight they had no problem telling the said player/players how terrible their abilities were. Nor would they revive anyone outside of their own guild members. Fortunately they moved on to torment another server.

There is a balance between being unnecessarily elitist, and being a bag delivery service.

First off, is it a WvW guild or a PvX?
If it’s WvW, are you running builds that compliment your group?
If you are running something that doesn’t go well with the group (cough ranger cough) are you at least getting results and are not giving free rallies?

I’m in a WvW focused guild. We politely suggest that people get a real profession if they are running a ranger, but we’ve never kicked or banned anyone for it. If you are willing and able to play it smartly; no one will say a thing.

Likewise, we do say “we run these builds” but encourage members to post their ideas and we kick the tires on them and see if they hold water.

The only unforgivable sins is that we ask people that if they are on during our limited mandatory times that they join us; because it’s pointless to be in a WvW guild if you are in FotM all the time.

Elitism goes both ways. Some people think non-members have a right to impose themselves on and make demands of what are essentially private clubs just because they play on the same server and then get all kitten when the private club asserts their own rights. The only rights you have are equal access to a fight. A guild can’t stop you from that.

This isn’t to say that sometimes the private clubs don’t go overboard, just that the elitism, like respect, goes both ways.

A WvW guild is ideally a group of like-minded individuals who want to be a part of a coordinated team that plays, works, and improves together during regularly scheduled “raids.” If a player does not find that idea appealing, they are not forced to join. If a guild or it’s leadership is not living up to those expectations, a player is not forced to stay.

Spending time waiting to start is a failure of both leadership and membership. Regular raid times need to be clearly communicated by leadership. Members need to take it upon themselves to show up on map and in TS on time or early. If the guild doesn’t have enough players to start right away, the guild needs to recruit more.

Build debate is a forum topic. Everyone should know what they are running, and what their teammates are running, well before a raid starts. Guild builds must be faithfully implemented, so that guild leadership can accurately interpret weather a build or composition needs to change.

Rage-kicking members is a sign of unstable leadership. Deflecting wipe-blame away from leadership is a sign of unstable leadership.

WvW guilds typically dislike tag-alongs because they can sometimes cause more harm than good. If he dies he will rally the enemy team. If he drops a field on a regroup, he could negate tens of thousands of would-be healing.

I want to chime in on this subject as it is one that I’ve had to put up with for over a year of commanding.

WvW is a RTS (real time strategy game) in which you’re the units. It is why this commander raged in his Guild Raid and kicked the 2 guys. The reason is simple. His strategy revolved around those guys dropping the correct combo fields such that the raid could trigger them and gain the appropriate effect (most likely a water field to get heals). His strategy was denied because these 2 players were so confident in their “personalized play style” build for their character. They end up denying the strategy their commander wants to use because their personal play style doesn’t have the combo field he needs.

This is something I’ve gone against for over a year. I don’t try to force anyone to change because it’s ultimately impossible. The raid commander here has obviously grown tired of having to compromise the quality of his raid just so that Johnny X can run the ranger he played on for months.
Either Johnny X doesn’t know his ranger is detrimental to the raid or he’s determined to run it because he put so much hard work into it and is not comfortable on anything else.
In a Guild Raid, especially one that expects to zerg bust, there is no wiggle room to put that ranger in and the commander is tired of carrying these players who refuse to build toward the strategy the commander wants to implement.

TL;DR:
This commander sounds elitist right? Well you’re also elitist because you want your ranger to fit into his raid and want him to bend his strategy around your comfort. I would not expect to win his good graces that way and the rage he put out is a result.

PS: If he had to wait an hour to start the raid then his guild is more of a problem than he is. Raids are scheduled usually a week in advance in some kind of accessible medium. Those guild members he waits on don’t put the time in to get acquainted with the schedule and it hurts the 7 or so that show up on time. That adds to the frustration let me tell you.

Preach on Lioka. 100% agree

A good commander realizes he/she is not leading bots in a RTS and makes some allowances for human error (in short, plays with the team they have and not the team he/she wants.)
Usually problems work themselves out because the player will improve unless they have an attitude problem. If they have an attitude problem, it will be made evident very quickly and either that person will leave or be shown the door.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

My advice: There is 1 rule in organizing which MUST be followed in order to make an event enjoyable:

1) DO what you SAY.

When you rally in a BL, don’t go afk waiting for more. If raid starts at 8PM, then start it at 8PM. If you don’t, people will stop showing up at 8PM. If your raids are failing, its the fault of your organizer. NOT the members.

People should always listen to the commander. It also doesnt hurt to tell everyone in advance the big possibility were all going to get whiped, we learn from our mistakes and its no reason to roidrage.
It also helps to always use the same location for players to gather such as your own borderlands.

elkirin.8534:

I would suggest rather than be put off by the raid mentality, play the game, find people with similar attitudes to your own and most importantly…….. Do not be afraid to venture out into WVW without the guild.

This is really hard for lowbies, they rely on zergs for exp/loot or just fun. Other than that yea theres always a pug zerg around in EBG that anyone can join.

Guild raid:

Hop on vent.

Log in.

“Somebody pick map”

“We all here?”

“Got “x” number guild catapults."

“Let’s do this.”

Commence fun.

Works for us because we’ve worked together for 14 years. Not without issues. Small team is easier for teamwork.

Have also led server wide raids in the past with fluctuating numbers between 50 and 200 people. All sorts of different player skills, builds and classes present. Some better than others. Some new players.

Here is what we learned:

Large raids require 2 basic ingredients: respect and willingness to listen. For both the commander and the followers.

Large raids leaders need a lot of patience, willingness to work with what they have, sharing info/explaining/guiding in a way that is respectful and efficient. And knowing when to call a halt and/or pull back.. And an ability to encourage when the inevitable wipe/unsuccessful attempt occurs.

Large raid followers need a lot of patience (and understanding), willingness to follow directions, asking questions/ raising concerns in a way that is respectful and efficient. And knowing when not to distract with issues they could solve without commander intervention. Willingness to trust when the commander says pull out, and determination to get back up and try again when the inevitable wipe/unsuccessful attempt fails.

Both leaders and followers need to be open to suggestions and learning.

Humor also often helps diffuse tense situations. Not a necessary ingredient; it sure adds to the flavor of what should be, in the end, fun.

All you elitist Guild Leaders…Leadership is: The art of influencing and directing people to accomplish the mission.

Not bullying. Not belittling, Not whining.

Lead. Don’t dictate.

…and to all y’all Ranger haters…you don’t deserve a response that would get my post censored.

I see more commanders rage at hammer guards cuz of inappropriate light field spam then i see commanders rage at rangers. Go figure where the real problem is.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Guild raids p*ss me off, sorry. I understand it’s " Guild Wars " but how crucial guilds are of followers really bothers me. I’m not in a guild for almost that exact reason… The majority of them, let me stress majority will shoo away anyone who isn’t in their guild or scrutinize them until they leave. Sure, there are benefits to being coordinated that much no one can deny. But you shouldn’t exclude people because they’re not a part of your guild, they’re still a part of your server. Let them run with you and who knows maybe they’ll enjoy your conversations and how you play as a team and bam, new recruit.
Not only that, as everyone so often says, coverage wars it should be the more the merrier.

Way I see it, if you’re going to guild raid do what KrazyFlyinChicken said and do what you say don’t kitten around for 60 minutes or have a fit on the five people that want to follow you.
Sorry for the temper but guild raids really grind my gears. It’s like being on the battle field and saying “no, we’re fighting for the same thing but we’re called ‘super friends’ and you can’t fight with us because you’re not a super friend.” It makes no sense.
And thus why I enjoy PUG’s even if they scatter at the sight of a red name. At least they’ll pick you up if you go down and welcome any one who wants to fight by their side.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

My advice: There is 1 rule in organizing which MUST be followed in order to make an event enjoyable:

1) DO what you SAY.

When you rally in a BL, don’t go afk waiting for more. If raid starts at 8PM, then start it at 8PM. If you don’t, people will stop showing up at 8PM. If your raids are failing, its the fault of your organizer. NOT the members.

My guild does closed raids where we like to improve our skill and try to work better as a team, and somebody who isn’t on ts can completely throw you off. My guild also does open raids where you usually tag up and lead a map in an open channel where everybody is welcome. I can understand where some people are coming from by not wanting non-guildies running with them, and if they want to run like that you should let them. That’s how they want to play. You think they shouldn’t exclude people because that’s who YOU want to play, so it’s the same thing really.

Some people just want to take the game more seriously, so follow the tag next time =p

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Guild raids p*ss me off, sorry. I understand it’s " Guild Wars " but how crucial guilds are of followers really bothers me. I’m not in a guild for almost that exact reason… The majority of them, let me stress majority will shoo away anyone who isn’t in their guild or scrutinize them until they leave. Sure, there are benefits to being coordinated that much no one can deny. But you shouldn’t exclude people because they’re not a part of your guild, they’re still a part of your server. Let them run with you and who knows maybe they’ll enjoy your conversations and how you play as a team and bam, new recruit.
Not only that, as everyone so often says, coverage wars it should be the more the merrier.

Way I see it, if you’re going to guild raid do what KrazyFlyinChicken said and do what you say don’t kitten around for 60 minutes or have a fit on the five people that want to follow you.
Sorry for the temper but guild raids really grind my gears. It’s like being on the battle field and saying “no, we’re fighting for the same thing but we’re called ‘super friends’ and you can’t fight with us because you’re not a super friend.” It makes no sense.
And thus why I enjoy PUG’s even if they scatter at the sight of a red name. At least they’ll pick you up if you go down and welcome any one who wants to fight by their side.

How hard is it to understand that if you’re not on the raid team, you can spoil multiple things for them ? First of all, you are not on TS with them, so you don’t know their move. Second, you might not have the proper build required, which the guild obviously won’t share. So when facing enemy guild specially a raiding one, you’ll simply go down and die from their focus bomb no matter how good player you are, just because you don’t know the next move of the guild group you’re following. When you’re dead, you could have rallied the enemy guild group’s one caster (being a rallybot) say one necro, main source of damage, and in guild raids, one person matters a lot. If you wanna really follow, ask them if you can join their voice command. If you’re running a Ranger, simply stay away from them. There’s a reason guild groups run tagless. By the way if the closed raid raidleader is running with a tag, then it’s totally not your fault.

That is exactly why I decided to shy away from guilds myself. For the most part, too much politics for my liking. When I log onto WvW, I like to fight, not stand around and debate builds which won’t mean a kitten when you encounter a group more than twice your size which always happens. I also like to hop maps.

For me, there is nothing more enjoyable than being part of a pug Zerg who refuses to get on TS who consistently wipes out a larger whole guild Zerg (whom you know is on TS). It’s enjoyable because you must know they must be furious.

Again the debate about close raids? Can’t you just let it go and accept a concept that has been here for a year now?

To the op: Congratulations, you found team nobhead.

yeah… i hate when 50 people afk at spawn. guild groups dont want random because they are rally bots. in piken often happens: every borders are full, but no tag. you must to be in very good friendship with 3-4 good guilds if you want to play every day.

Sreoom.3690:

All you elitist Guild Leaders…Leadership is: The art of influencing and directing people to accomplish the mission.

Not bullying. Not belittling, Not whining.

Lead. Don’t dictate.

…and to all y’all Ranger haters…you don’t deserve a response that would get my post censored.

It just depends on the guild mentality. Some guilds are “serious” about a videogame and they have high goals so their guildees tolerate the abuse and flaming they receive from their guild commanders/leader.

if you prefer the laidback guilds who are just out there to learn and have fun stay away from the serious ones.

Zenith.6403:

“Alright, looks like we’re set.”
The 15-man guild group ventures out and meets enemy 25-35 man PUG group with commander leading it. The wipe is real.

“OMG you guys suck! Didn’t I just tell you what field you need to put down! Why don’t you stick up with me?”
2 players kicked from guild.
Raid over.

All Is Vain.

“Closed” raids are for those commanders who can’t deal with pugs. Period, that is the only difference. Those commanders may not like that label, and I get why you wouldn’t. But you need to be a very good commander to run a raid with pugs tagging along and still get those loot bags.

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

“Closed” raids are for those commanders who can’t deal with pugs. Period, that is the only difference. Those commanders may not like that label, and I get why you wouldn’t. But you need to be a very good commander to run a raid with pugs tagging along and still get those loot bags.

Nope, you need to have pugs that are willing to follow, and not run everywhere and nowhere, doing just what pleases them while is not always good for the group (oh, I’ll put out all my aoe’s to tag as much as I can, despite the lead asking for water zones… or lets all go in a different direction, tagging different people instead of doing a burst to effectively bring the ennemy down… or what a great idea to go directly at the lord to get the banana despite the 10 AC raining on the lord’s room…)
Commander can’t be better than the people following (or not following) him…

Some days pugs are great to lead, some other days they’re just hopeless.

Back to topic, the fact my guild raid don’t like pugs is that they overwrite our fields with theirs, even the best of them won’t make the timely dodge our guild members know we will do, thus they fall and rez the ennemy.
If people want to play with us, they should apply to our guild, or get in an ally guild.
We’re not particularly hardcore, feels like a family, but we want to know who is playing with us. I got in a WvW guild, it’s not to play with randoms…

Only went in two WvW guild, the first one having a greater level than the second, but I never got a lead that shouts at guildies.

We do take some time to get started – partly for grouping purposes, but mostly to see who is there, and if anyone needs to change build (we have over 100 members, but only somewhat 20 each raid… sometimes we have mostly our support members, other times we have mostly our DPS members, and some others we have way too much of our CC members, and way not enough of the other ones, so some have to re-spec to balance it out, which takes more than 30 seconds to decide (who will change) and do (for what)).

Most of our members run with the pug commander until enough people got on the map to raid, but when we organize the specifics of the raid, we do have the whole guild at the spawn for 10-15 minutes… Never saw a problem with it, even as a pug, since being organised and having a good balance of support/damages/cc/boons stripping gives guilds the best chances against enemy blobs…

I love my guild : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgW2fR92fLA

We are rectruiting btw.

Cheers.

Nope, you need to have pugs that are willing to follow, and not run everywhere and nowhere, doing just what pleases them while is not always good for the group (oh, I’ll put out all my aoe’s to tag as much as I can, despite the lead asking for water zones… or lets all go in a different direction, tagging different people instead of doing a burst to effectively bring the ennemy down… or what a great idea to go directly at the lord to get the banana despite the 10 AC raining on the lord’s room…)
Commander can’t be better than the people following (or not following) him…

This is true although the same applies to commanders. Wait until you’re fortunate enough to be stuck with commanders obviously incapable of making decisions. Run from point A to point B to Point C then back again. What did the pug achieve? outside of physical exercise for their chars, nothing. No fights, no defense, no attacks, no siege building – just run in a circle, stop for a couple of minutes while commander consults whatever tools are available, then run in a circle again.
Lets attack this tower; place siege right in front of a group of 40 enemy that just capped the tower and wonder why your pug & siege were wiped out (’but but… dear leader, we could not build your siege without being killed in the process). Commander gets upset, oh this group of players has no skill. Hmmm, perhaps commander should have built siege a distance away from tower giving pug the chance to defend against the inevitable attack.

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

“Closed” raids are for those commanders who can’t deal with pugs. Period, that is the only difference. Those commanders may not like that label, and I get why you wouldn’t. But you need to be a very good commander to run a raid with pugs tagging along and still get those loot bags.

That didn’t make any sense at all to be honest. Do you even speak WvW ?!

You need to be playing with people who are 1. Good or have the ability to be Good and 2. are very comfortable with, friends. Ive had to deal with players who arn’t both or are only one and its incredibly akward when you have someone who proves they dont have the ability to improve but are your friend o.O

Zenith.6403:

I’ve been on a couple of guilds now that have this thing called “guild raid” on WvW borderlands.

“Everyone get on TS”, “Which TS?”, “Our own TS.”
“Everyone needs to have microphone to join and xxKIdxxx stop playing music on backround please.”

Then about 7 people show up on borderlands and start afk’ing at spawn for good part of hour waiting for their buddies to show up. Once the number is about 15 it’s time to get inventory of professions and what equipment everyone is wearing. There’s debates about builds and what order every skill is used. The guild may have commander in it, but he doesn’t turn the tag on because some smelly PUGs might join the guild raid and that would diminish the glory.

“Alright, looks like we’re set.”
The 15-man guild group ventures out and meets enemy 25-35 man PUG group with commander leading it. The wipe is real.

“OMG you guys suck! Didn’t I just tell you what field you need to put down! Why don’t you stick up with me?”
2 players kicked from guild.
Raid over.

And one of those 2 was Zenith.

warriorjrd.8695:

My guild does closed raids where we like to improve our skill and try to work better as a team, and somebody who isn’t on ts can completely throw you off. My guild also does open raids where you usually tag up and lead a map in an open channel where everybody is welcome. I can understand where some people are coming from by not wanting non-guildies running with them, and if they want to run like that you should let them. That’s how they want to play. You think they shouldn’t exclude people because that’s who YOU want to play, so it’s the same thing really.

Some people just want to take the game more seriously, so follow the tag next time =p

And to this date, INVI is one of the few guilds that i see around that is maintaining a good friendly attitude to those around them even during closed raids.
Take care and carry on

For me i’d avoid any guild that either dictates what you should build like, or insists everyone stacks up all the time.

I play my own style, and i play it to its strength. Charging in headlong is the worst thing i could do, and exactly what commanders expect from everyone.

elkirin.8534:

There is an element of the OP’s version of truth in many guild outings. It is a fact of life, since a certain game increased the playerbase to be very inclusive.

I would suggest rather than be put off by the raid mentality, play the game, find people with similar attitudes to your own and most importantly…….. Do not be afraid to venture out into WVW without the guild.

Agree 100%. I dont understand why people want to log on, be told to use certain skills like a slave. Guild raids in WvW = LOL.

Why is it so hard to understand that some people just want to play with their friends, and don’t want to play with people they don’t know?

Do you go into a restaurant and randomly join a group of people you don’t know? No. They have gone to the restaurant to have a meal and conversation with their friends. You may be a wonderful person, full of hilarious and interesting conversation, but none the less if you just go and insert yourself into a group’s meal, they’re going to look at you funny.

And when they look at you funny and ask what you’re doing, do you go “But we’re all here to eat! We’re all doing the same thing! Who are you to say I can’t sit and eat with you??”

Yes, you have just as much of a right to be in the restaurant. But that doesn’t mean you’re suddenly best friends with everyone there.

If you’re going on a walk through the countryside, or a tour round a city, with your friends/family, would you not find it annoying if someone decided to follow you around all day? Playing football in the park, going to the cinema, having a chat in a coffeeshop, squishing blobs in WvW; sometimes people just want to be left alone with their friends.

Ragnar put it perfectly!