Like I wrote, I think there’s a subset of players that are asking for a stripped down and casual fights environment, one that doesn’t have game aspects that can interrupt your fights. They are claiming to be “true WvW players”, but I think they’re really some open world PvP players because “true WvW” is about managing the activity that goes on across all four maps like an RTS, not “hey we’re having an open field fight over here.”
I think the guild hall arenas were developed specifically for these players.
The part of your quote that I bolded is so true, and it amazes me that so many posters on this forum complaining about “PvE” don’t seem to realize it. It’s almost as if they have made themselves oblivious to WvW’s fundamental design. WvW is an open world objective-based PvP game mode. It has always been about managing environments and objectives. Often that means fighting other players over those objectives, but not always. .
And you seem oblivious to the difference between artificial environmental obstacles and natural/organic obstacles and that when people object to the former it doesn’t mean they are also referring about the latter.
Aha, now we’re getting down to the meat of things a little. So which are the artificial obstacles, and which are the organic ones?
Would have thought it was pretty clear, pop up rocks are artificial, something like a swamp affecting movement is natural.
Got it, so rocks are artificial and swamps are natural. Never mind that WvW has no such swamps (I was hoping for some actual examples from WvW). What are walls and gates then, artificial or natural?
OK then so you are not willing to debate it honestly, cya. And so much for wanting better criticism than just some of the bashing that goes on here.
I think the guild hall arenas were developed specifically for these players.
The part of your quote that I bolded is so true, and it amazes me that so many posters on this forum complaining about “PvE” don’t seem to realize it. It’s almost as if they have made themselves oblivious to WvW’s fundamental design. WvW is an open world objective-based PvP game mode. It has always been about managing environments and objectives. Often that means fighting other players over those objectives, but not always. It has been like this since the game launched, from the original orb event and quaggan island, to ruins/bloodlust, to the very basics like escorting/sniping yaks, taking down walls and gates, killing guards and lords, etc. The oasis event and the shrine bonuses are completely within this design philosophy.
Dude?
The removal of the Quaggan/Krait event (that absolutely no one did because it’s a brainless PvE grind) in favour of the ruins was hailed as an improvement. That they now went back to PvE centric objective design is a step back!
It’s the map that is keeping people way from it.
You can shine a piece of poo, it’s still a piece of poo.
Quote from the review:
“There’s also a sprawling, beautiful new world-versus-world battleground called the Desert Borderlands that grants powerful bonuses for holding keeps, but two weeks on, there were never enough people playing it for me to truly see it in action. "Even IGN recognizes the outdated WvW server system that leaves us with 3 empty copies of the new map (which we all agree is beautiful).
I see nothing in that IGN quote about the server system, only about lack of players. Come on. There’s a lot of problems regarding WvW right now and they need good discussion, not weird logic.
The lack of players is due in great part to the server system, the old Alpine maps were also empty before the update. Even if they did added waypoint to the new map there is not enough players around to fill them.
Sorry, but I beg to differ. The old BL maps had more players then current maps, anyone that says differently is straight up lying or delusional.
entire farmzergs to the lakes in the bls…..(a reason why rewards should never be high in wvw)
Are you referring to the “kill 50 krait” daily?
I think it was “50 (or was it 25? 20? can’t remember) underwaterkills” ^^
I loved that lake and the quaggans. Collecting pearls gave me something to do while keeping an eye on my borderland
Like I wrote, I think there’s a subset of players that are asking for a stripped down and casual fights environment, one that doesn’t have game aspects that can interrupt your fights. They are claiming to be “true WvW players”, but I think they’re really some open world PvP players because “true WvW” is about managing the activity that goes on across all four maps like an RTS, not “hey we’re having an open field fight over here.”
I think the guild hall arenas were developed specifically for these players.
The part of your quote that I bolded is so true, and it amazes me that so many posters on this forum complaining about “PvE” don’t seem to realize it. It’s almost as if they have made themselves oblivious to WvW’s fundamental design. WvW is an open world objective-based PvP game mode. It has always been about managing environments and objectives. Often that means fighting other players over those objectives, but not always. .
And you seem oblivious to the difference between artificial environmental obstacles and natural/organic obstacles and that when people object to the former it doesn’t mean they are also referring about the latter.
Aha, now we’re getting down to the meat of things a little. So which are the artificial obstacles, and which are the organic ones?
Would have thought it was pretty clear, pop up rocks are artificial, something like a swamp affecting movement is natural.
Got it, so rocks are artificial and swamps are natural. Never mind that WvW has no such swamps (I was hoping for some actual examples from WvW). What are walls and gates then, artificial or natural?
OK then so you are not willing to debate it honestly, cya. And so much for wanting better criticism than just some of the bashing that goes on here.
The Superior Sigil of Energy is strong with this one.
I think the guild hall arenas were developed specifically for these players.
The part of your quote that I bolded is so true, and it amazes me that so many posters on this forum complaining about “PvE” don’t seem to realize it. It’s almost as if they have made themselves oblivious to WvW’s fundamental design. WvW is an open world objective-based PvP game mode. It has always been about managing environments and objectives. Often that means fighting other players over those objectives, but not always. It has been like this since the game launched, from the original orb event and quaggan island, to ruins/bloodlust, to the very basics like escorting/sniping yaks, taking down walls and gates, killing guards and lords, etc. The oasis event and the shrine bonuses are completely within this design philosophy.
Dude?
The removal of the Quaggan/Krait event (that absolutely no one did because it’s a brainless PvE grind) in favour of the ruins was hailed as an improvement. That they now went back to PvE centric objective design is a step back!
What is “PvE centric objective design”? And do walls/gates, dolyaks, and keep lords/guards count as PvE centric objective design, why or why not?
The ruins were hailed as an improvement by only a subset of the population. Another set cried foul due to the Minor and Major Bloodlust stat increases, which if anyone remembers, had gotten nerfed rather quickly.
Can satisfy only some of the people some of the time.
@Zioba, I remember it was 50 because everyone would curse about how long it took. Hehe.
Doesn’t matter if it is 1, 25, 50, or N….the system is broke. I mean seriously, look at the yack slapper achievement. If you can’t see the system is broke due to the amount of noise, this one title was supposed to be difficult yet here we are with a change to make it obtainable by the masses.
The more I see the lack of attention to the whole WvW concept the more I see it is just a ruse or smoke screen. It was put into place to capture the older DaOC style of PvPer who only cared about RvR. The problem is that the system they introduced didn’t have any supporting cast.
No portal for player or guild statistics. The orbs never got addressed. The jumping puzzles got nerfed. No traps outside the jumping puzzles. No guard warnings, no alliances. No migration path between starting point and EBG. Let us not even get started on server populations, ranking system, and wall clock coverage.
PVE gets all the rewards, WvW nothing. To top it off they couldn’t balance PvE, sPvP, and WvW. I mean, how difficult is it to just tie sPvP with WvW and leave PvE alone? Seems pretty simple to me. Yet we get Edge of Mists – big whoop. As if you couldn’t split the player base even more than what it already is.
entire farmzergs to the lakes in the bls…..(a reason why rewards should never be high in wvw)
Are you referring to the “kill 50 krait” daily?
nah there were no dailies when the krait farm zergs were around. its was pve bots. thats how we used to farm badges…..kill the bots, but they lagged out the entire map and messed with the outmanned buff and the map cap
entire farmzergs to the lakes in the bls…..(a reason why rewards should never be high in wvw)
Are you referring to the “kill 50 krait” daily?
I think it was “50 (or was it 25? 20? can’t remember) underwaterkills” ^^
I loved that lake and the quaggans. Collecting pearls gave me something to do while keeping an eye on my borderland
haha yeah when i used to scout garri watergate thats all i did, getting pearls and killing kraits, but at least i enjoyed scouting.
we also had bot zergs at the skritt and the very south in that little lake there…. i did enjoy killing pve bots but it gets old.
I tried to give these maps a chance. I learned the routes, I learned the jump pads and teleports and all that. I even looked up guides online. I now know all quickest reinforce routes and the points you can jump over the barricades (is that even intended? I doubt it) As a roamer/scout, the experience is always the same: I see almost no one. I see enemy players like once every twenty minutes, or less than that. I spend the bulk of my time killing NPCs.
As a sometime leader of a havoc group, the maps feel lonely and sluggish. As a member of a large PPT-for-fights guild, I have to wait in a long EBG queue while the borderlands maps are empty night after night. (Then I get DC’ed from lag – while my teamspeak is working perfectly – and have to queue again)
No one responds to callouts on home borderland anymore. They just don’t care, not even for a tier three Rampart (the garri equivalent). I’ve only cared this long because I’ve pushed myself to.
Go on, call me a zergling, a one-masher, a rallybot, a scrub, say I don’t get it, whatever. The new maps are boring, sluggish, and empty. And this is from a Fort Aspenwood player – on a server that, according to Anet’s own metrics, is full. I don’t even want to think about what it’s like on lower tiers.
In the old wvw-days my friendlist was full of people in wvw – nowadays i see like 2-3 people… bring back old maps!
entire farmzergs to the lakes in the bls…..(a reason why rewards should never be high in wvw)
Are you referring to the “kill 50 krait” daily?
nah there were no dailies when the krait farm zergs were around. its was pve bots. thats how we used to farm badges…..kill the bots, but they lagged out the entire map and messed with the outmanned buff and the map cap
Oh man you’re going waaaay back. I remember zergs of bots doing nothing but escorting yaks. When I saw that I decided not to play for a few months until the game mode had matured.
-snip-
Go on, call me a zergling, a one-masher, a rallybot, a scrub, say I don’t get it, whatever. The new maps are boring, sluggish, and empty. And this is from a Fort Aspenwood player – on a server that, according to Anet’s own metrics, is full. I don’t even want to think about what it’s like on lower tiers.
We, SoS, rarely go to FA border because we have a constant FA/TC presence on our own. Our numbers are very low as well, so we simply can’t field a team on EBG, our BL and our enemy’s BLs. It sucks as we’re often outnumbered by both server’s groups, but it does make for lots of excitement.
I’m betting that your complaints, while legitimate, are caused by the now aggravated population difference rather than the map itself.
The new map sucks. That’s the reason there arent alot players on them. This should be clear for most people.
No the map is fine (besides the PvE Event) people cannot adjust to it, thats the only reason. It is not blob friendly so most server dont want them because they just want to blob.
They need to make it flat so you can get from point A to point B, as it is now you have to run all over the map to get to any building its walls, canyons, blocking walls, canyons, mountains, canyons.
The new map sucks. That’s the reason there arent alot players on them. This should be clear for most people.
I completely disagree with that. The new map is fine minus a lack of waypoints. It needs waypoints in towers as soon as you cap them.
The problems are core WvW problems that have been there WAY before the release of HoT.
We had amazing fights on that new map in T2 last night. Granted, 2 of the copies were empty as we could only fill a portion of a single Desert Borderland map and EBG.
The problem is always the same, running back to a fight is way too long. Honestly it was too long in the Beta and it could have been fixed if hey listened to the community.
Realistically they can’t make the map flatter, the map is designed as it is. However, making it much faster to obtain waypoints (like 10 minutes after a capture) would remedy the situation.
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