Guild Wars 2

Ungood.3054:

Sergo.2867:

This has been a great matchup for me on Tarnished Coast. Great fights everywhere I turn.

I would imagine, and it great to hear that you have having wonderful fights.

Did you guys realize that over the course of the last month you have totally changed all your opppnets. (Tarnished Coast)

Have a Look.
This week -
You faced – Blackgate and Kaineng
3rd Place – yah you got served at 145.

last week – Week 5 –
You faced – Blackgate and Fort Aspenwood
2nd place – You scored 179

Week 4 –
You faced – Santum Rail and Stormbluff.
Took 2nd – with a score of 111

Week 3 –
You faced – Santum Rail and Stormbluff
Took 2nd – With a Score of 174

Week 2 -
You faced – Santum Rail and Stormbluff
Took 2nd – With a score of 186

You know what I noticed. You your server was doing progressively worse from week 2 to week 4, facing the same opponent that crushed you, week in and week out.

So while maybe you can say you were having fun, it’s pretty clear your server as a whole was not.

Also notice – Week 5, new fight, new worlds, you scored a Staggering 179 Points, a far jump from the 111 of the week before, even if you took 2nd again.

At this point it’s pretty safe to assume that new worlds to face brought new vitality to the fight. You did better against Kaineng and Blackgate (which had come down from Tier 1) then you were doing against Sanctum rail by the end of your 3rd week.

So spare me this “Oh love of the fight” line, your server was giving up, and the numbers showed it, New faces brought new vitality and you fought again. That is what the numbers show.

So yah. Tarnished Coast and Stormbluff Isle, are great example sof how this system not only works but also due to maintaining unbalanced matches crushes a worlds spirit to even go out on the field anymore.

By Week 3 against Sanctum Rail, Stormbluff scored a 42, of what was once a 168 when they first met, you can see they just gave up.

Does that mean they don’t want to fight? hardly, they scored a 152 the following week upon Transfer away from Santum Rail, still taking 3rd, but showing much more fight.

So yah. Numbers don’t lie. This system is bad for everyone. Tarnished Coast, was just lucky to get new blood to fight thanks to Kaineng’s rising, as you can see by the continual decline in your performance numbers, you were well on your way to succumbing to being demoralized by being locked against an Oppont you never should have been facing, and eventually you would have just lost the will to even keep trying, or the people to make a diffidence as they jumped ship. Which is what I theorize happened to Stormbluff, they took a population crash thanks to messed up system that locked people into feeling dead ended in blowout tiers, where they can’t win.

But hey, Maybe you were enjoying the decent, and losing, your sever as a whole was not, and the numbers prove that.

The scores look like that because SBI was hemorrhaging players back when they were in T1, and continued to do so once they were in T2. You can see that SBI has been in free fall, this isn’t speculation. Back at the end of days on SBI there were barely queues even on Fridays.

You know, the quality of players as well as quantity can only grow if facing difficult opponents, and facing the same people over time will not allow for servers to try new strategies or even slack off eventually due to boredom of having to face the same people, no matter how great they are. >3<

Mainly the problem with this is going up and down this way will add a lot more challenge to the game, in a way of facing more difficult opponents, but most people, it seems as I’ve read in this thread simply want to win or make it easy >3<. Well, that’s not fun, imo. Got to earn it in the least.

Every post here supporting WULD has just cherry picked example match ups that would’ve benefited from it, most of which were due to transfers (which won’t be happening as frequently or in such large numbers), completing ignoring the fact that it would destroy match ups every other weeks due to the red server constantly being 2 tiers below the green one. It’s never going to happen.

I don’t know why everyone seems to think everyone in T8 wants WULD. I want Sorrow’s gone because of course we can not take them. It is clear to anyone who has played in T8 that somehow Sorrow’s population increased. They have such a large population advantage that they can wipe both ET and FC off the map, except for reset night. They have better overall coverage than us. They have larger zergs than us. IT IS NOT FUN.

BUT that doesn’t mean T8 shows that the WULD system would be better. The glicko system doesn’t work well in T8 because of the large transfers that kittened it’s score. When Kaineng and Devona’s moved out of T8, they dragged a large part of the points out of T8. This caused a gigantic sinkhole for anyone unfortunate enough to fall into T8. This problem with glicko doesn’t mean WULD would be better, it just means that the math is wrong.

WULD would cause a lot of problems that most of its supporters happily ignore. What I (and many others) propose would be for ANet to step in every once in a great while to adjust the scores. If they tweaked the scores to allow for some servers to move or even be placed down or up tiers it would be great. Sadly, ANet doesn’t care about tier 8.

Vilkata.4725:

Honestly what’s so bad about fighting the same 2 servers all the time if the match is close? I’ve enjoyed the BG/Kain/TC match-up more than any other match-up I’ve ever seen and would be thrilled to fight the same servers all the time.

I can understand how it could be bad in T8 where the top server always wins but doesn’t leave the tier, but the problem is that there currently isn’t any server that would be a good fit. SF dominates now but I think any server from T7 would dominate just as much if not more. Do you think the blowouts will be more fun if it’s a different server every week?

But Sorrow;s as they are now hasn’t been tested against T7. They have a much higher pop in WvW than they did when they dropped into T8. When they dropped into T8 against FC and ET they lost the first week, and won the second by 15k. 4 weeks later they are scoring 200k points higher than FC. The week before Sorrow’s dropped down they scored fairly closely to Henge. Something is there in Sorrow’s that wasn’t there before. Maybe if someone drops down we could compete,

Sovereign.1093:

You know, the quality of players as well as quantity can only grow if facing difficult opponents, and facing the same people over time will not allow for servers to try new strategies or even slack off eventually due to boredom of having to face the same people, no matter how great they are. >3<

Mainly the problem with this is going up and down this way will add a lot more challenge to the game, in a way of facing more difficult opponents, but most people, it seems as I’ve read in this thread simply want to win or make it easy >3<. Well, that’s not fun, imo. Got to earn it in the least.

Servers can try new strategies all the time on the same opponents. Using new strategies and tactics is not driven by who you play. Some may work better against certain servers or commanders but there’s plenty of variety on servers between players and commanders. Players get better from practice and experience. Neither of which is exclusively server driven. Practice is something get no matter who you are playing. Same with experience and you may get a very slightly different experience fighting a different server. It ultimately comes down to the players and players can be drastically different on the same server.

How did you come to this conclusion that most of us always want an easy win? I know I don’t and so do plenty of those that I see against the WULD system. You would actually learn less and have less of a challenge with the WULD system and the larger blowouts. You would either be on the winning server destroying the other ones or be the one getting destroyed. You don’t learn much of anything from being on either end of that spectrum in said match up. Getting run over by far superior numbers and getting insta owned teaches you nothing. Same with being the one that is rolling over the others.

The current system allows for those unbalanced matches but not to the degree of WULD. This allows for learning to face superior numbers or skill instead of getting owned before you can do much of anything.

Sovereign.1093:

You know, the quality of players as well as quantity can only grow if facing difficult opponents, and facing the same people over time will not allow for servers to try new strategies or even slack off eventually due to boredom of having to face the same people, no matter how great they are. >3<

Mainly the problem with this is going up and down this way will add a lot more challenge to the game, in a way of facing more difficult opponents, but most people, it seems as I’ve read in this thread simply want to win or make it easy >3<. Well, that’s not fun, imo. Got to earn it in the least.

That’s not true at all. In fact, new strategies are more likely to be developed in repeated matchups against the same enemies than against new ones. The reasons for this are simple. First, when facing the same enemy (especially one that consistently beats you) you have more incentive to change tactics than remain static. The more you use a certain strategy, the more likely your opponent is to find a counter to it, and the more effective those counters will be. If you use the same feint over and over again, they’re just not going to fall for it anymore and they’ll know where you’re going next so you have to mix it up to be successful. In addition to that, when trying strategies against the same opponents, you have a strong baseline as to how successful they are. Repeated matchups mean you likely know your opponent well, and have a good idea how things will usually turn out. So when you mix things up and try something new, it’s often fairly easy to decide whether it actually worked, and made you better off.

When you’re facing different enemies frequently, there’s more proliferation between servers of the same ideas. It seems like “new” strategies, but it’s really just copying something you saw someone else do. That’s not innovating. The same number of strategies continue to exist across all servers, it’s just that the distribution of “who’s doing what” might have changed. On top of that, when facing new enemies frequently, servers will likely fall into habits and use the same tactics they’re used to all the time rather than innovating because the opponent doesn’t have sufficient time to develop counters. Repeating the same strategy no longer offers diminishing returns, and in fact probably becomes more effective as practice works out any kinks in it.

But your comments at the end of your post make me think you don’t know what it’s like to be in an unbalanced matchup. It’s not fun for anyone. Speaking as someone on a server that has placed 3rd every week for a very long time, I’d much rather take this matchup than the stomping we’d likely offer to the enemy from two tiers below us, and I know the server that’s consistently won our matchup would rather stick with us than be dominated by a server two tiers above.

rhyein.6172:

Every post here supporting WULD has just cherry picked example match ups that would’ve benefited from it

I find Calling 7 of the 8 NA tiers for the last month of match-ups “Cherry Picking” dishonest.

Syeria.4812:

That’s not true at all. In fact, new strategies are more likely to be developed in repeated matchups against the same enemies than against new ones.

This is only true if fight was tight, or it was made clear that it was an error in strategy to start with.

The reality is, there is not much in the way of tactics to be used, and the most brutal and effective one, is one of attrition, thus If your opponent can without fail, play an attrition game against you, it is not IF you will lose, but how long you will hold out before you lose.

The reasons for this are simple. First, when facing the same enemy (especially one that consistently beats you) you have more incentive to change tactics than remain static. The more you use a certain strategy, the more likely your opponent is to find a counter to it, and the more effective those counters will be. If you use the same feint over and over again, they’re just not going to fall for it anymore and they’ll know where you’re going next so you have to mix it up to be successful. In addition to that, when trying strategies against the same opponents, you have a strong baseline as to how successful they are. Repeated matchups mean you likely know your opponent well, and have a good idea how things will usually turn out. So when you mix things up and try something new, it’s often fairly easy to decide whether it actually worked, and made you better off.

The irony of this, that you have an idea how well a tactic will work against them before you even use it, what that means in simple matter is, that it removes options, it does not add them when fighting a stagnant match up.

But your comments at the end of your post make me think you don’t know what it’s like to be in an unbalanced matchup. It’s not fun for anyone. Speaking as someone on a server that has placed 3rd every week for a very long time, I’d much rather take this matchup than the stomping we’d likely offer to the enemy from two tiers below us, and I know the server that’s consistently won our matchup would rather stick with us than be dominated by a server two tiers above.

As someone in an unbalanced match-up as well, I could not disagree with you more on this stand.

I simply can’t even fathom how anyone could want to face the same match-up knowing that it will end the same way, week in and week out.

I don’t grasp how any comfort or joy can exist in that. But I am not you, so don’t pretend to speak for you, and I am going to say, you don;t speak for me, or anyone but yourself for that matter.

However, the reason spot teams don’t keep lop sided matches going on endlessly because the majority of the world can’t fathom why anyone would want to watch or even be apart of a lop sided match up. They are boring, for everyone involved.

The reality is, If I was the winning world, you can BET I would want to move up and see how well I do as opposed to curb-stomping the same people week in and week out.

If I wanted Stagnation and the same predictable outcome all the time I’d PvE as there are better rewards for doing it.

We just fight the matches Anet tells us to fight and be happy we can play such a great game…have been on the losing side of many of fight and just had fun dying out there honing my tactics. I can lead small group precision strikes behind enemy lines and take take supply camps and bounce around to confuse the enemy. Learned it from from when I was fighting loosing match week after week.
I just have fun playing and that’s all.

Ynot.8397:

Vilkata.4725:

Honestly what’s so bad about fighting the same 2 servers all the time if the match is close? I’ve enjoyed the BG/Kain/TC match-up more than any other match-up I’ve ever seen and would be thrilled to fight the same servers all the time.

I can understand how it could be bad in T8 where the top server always wins but doesn’t leave the tier, but the problem is that there currently isn’t any server that would be a good fit. SF dominates now but I think any server from T7 would dominate just as much if not more. Do you think the blowouts will be more fun if it’s a different server every week?

But Sorrow;s as they are now hasn’t been tested against T7. They have a much higher pop in WvW than they did when they dropped into T8. When they dropped into T8 against FC and ET they lost the first week, and won the second by 15k. 4 weeks later they are scoring 200k points higher than FC. The week before Sorrow’s dropped down they scored fairly closely to Henge. Something is there in Sorrow’s that wasn’t there before. Maybe if someone drops down we could compete,

Thank you, now that make sense to me. SF received a population increase that would make them more suitable for T7 or higher. I agree that something should be done to prevent T8 from becoming a sinkhole.

Vilkata.4725:

Thank you, now that make sense to me. SF received a population increase that would make them more suitable for T7 or higher. I agree that something should be done to prevent T8 from becoming a sinkhole.

Even if they put in “Seasons” like most Sport teams, that last say, 14 games total, throw out a prize for the First Place Team at the end of the “season” like everyone that was there from start to end got a big bag of high end stuff.

Yah, yah, yah, there would be blowouts, but there are blowouts anyway.