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Posted by: Reverence.6915

Reverence.6915

Night capping needs to be fixed through population balancing. Not artificial multipliers.

Expac sucks for WvW players. Asura master race
Beastgate | Faerie Law
Currently residing on SBI

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Posted by: Ogre.3124

Ogre.3124

seal the faith of any weak “primetime” server to always lose…

No NA players on a NA server. What a tragedy for them to lose. Welcome to how NA players feel like against heavy OCX/SEA ppt servers. Nobody wants to be paired up with them. Maybe if those servers tried to buy NA players (how rare are those?) instead of every other server fighting for a minority of foreign players the game would actually be good huh

Maguuma

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Posted by: testpig.5018

testpig.5018

I think PPK should be just as important as PPT personally. I don’t play for point ticks as a roamer. Sure I take camps and towers when I can, but my primary focus is defeating my foes in WvW, the fights – not the objectives. Making PPK matter as much as PPT caters to everyone in WvW because then we all have an equal role in our world score.

And this is why you have no true understanding of WvW.

You are Not World vrs World.. you are PvPing.. you should stick to sPvP. the grand open world strategic battles are a bit tomuch for your playstyle.

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Posted by: DeWolfe.2174

DeWolfe.2174

This would be the end of Power of the Mists buff. Most players don’t really notice the buff.

Hope there’s an equivalent to make up for this in PvE. That’s a huge hit to come later in the week. I always waited to craft before reset. To use boosters toward the endof the week to stack the effectiveness. Better up the Guild ones, let us use two Guild ones at once, or something.

Any other bad news for today? Might as well toss it all out on us now…

[AwM] of Jade Quarry.

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Posted by: Kovu.7560

Kovu.7560

  • That feeling of hopelessness when your team is down 100,000 points after a single day
  • Give players a real opportunity to make a comeback
    • Matches are often decided in the first few days, making playing in the final days feel pointless
  • Aye, gw2 wvw needs to be more like Mario Kart.
    Give T2 some blue shells to huck at Yaks Bend, so we can feel accomplished. =)

    Thanks for the Assassin’s Creed update the other week btw, now I’ll die from fall damage 0.02% less often. =D

    ~ Kovu

    Charr Ranger, Necromancer, Thief
    Fort Aspenwood. [CREW], [TLC], [ShW], [UNIV]

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    Posted by: fishball.7204

    fishball.7204

    I’m kinda worried that as a non prime time player there will be reduced WvW activity since our contribution won’t be as important. Right now on BG and TC/DB people come out to fight because there’s people everywhere and stuff actually matters (eg. TC will defend their garri in SEA, even if it means overtime by their EU).

    If the scoring changes are implemented, I worry that people will just go ‘oh this isn’t really my timezone i will just stay in PvE or continue sleeping’ so there’s nothing to do in WvW which was actually what happens and hence the term #hibergate.

    If the scores are going to be similar regardless of the commander(s) playing 12 hours or 2 hours they’re probably going to play 2 hours? The last thing right now is to make people want to play LESS WvW -_-

    Another problem is, at the end of the day we want to fight people (as non prime time players) which is why we all move up to tier 1/2. Currently the glicko system and coverage system works somewhat to distribute servers across tiers with suitable opponent coverage. If for example, BG had YB and Maguuma for opponents, all the OCX/SEA players on BG would have nobody to fight even if the scores are close which just kills WvW for us non prime players.

    FOR THE GREEEEEEEEEEEEN

    (edited by fishball.7204)

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    Posted by: manveruppd.7601

    manveruppd.7601

    Points for Capture
    Capturing an objective awards immediate score.
    If the objective is upgraded it is worth additional score.

    This alone should improve things immensely!

    May I also suggest an additional bonus score for capturing objectives from the server leading the score? This would incentivise the two bottom teams to gang up on the leader rather than to turn on each other for easy points, as I’ve often seen happening.

    A bad necromancer always blames the corpse.

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    Posted by: Ulion.5476

    Ulion.5476

    Night capping needs to be fixed through population balancing. Not artificial multipliers.

    Its hard to balance server populations when no one wants to move servers. WvW guilds are the main source of players that effects coverage. It cost a lot of gold/money to move or to get fights or for whatever reason.

    Ele – Tarnished Coast
    “Quoth the raven nevermore”
    Platinum Scout: 300% MF

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    Posted by: elkirin.8534

    elkirin.8534

    While I tend to play in early OCX during weekdays and only in NA hrs on the weekends, I do see the value in the scoring change suggestions.

    I worry that people who paid to move (not me) will be disgruntled enough to leave the game but am hoping this actually energises wvw.

    If the vast majority of the players play in a certain time block, they should be looked to for the main drive of the changes. Anet must sustain a critical mass of players.

    Good luck with the changes Anet, it is good to see you paying some attention to WvW.

    Please keep the constructive comments flowing.

    Please do not take offence to pro or anti change troll vitriol, they likely do have opinions , they just appear to lack the skills to express them in a civil manner.

    Dubain – Sea of Whoever we are Linked to now

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    Posted by: Liston.9708

    Liston.9708

    Night capping needs to be fixed through population balancing. Not artificial multipliers.

    amen to this. some matchups are just plain bad and boring when 1 server plays at one time of day and the other(s) play at another time of the day….

    YB→YB→YB→YB→YB→YB→YB→most likely YB

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    Posted by: Jayne.9251

    Jayne.9251

    Night capping needs to be fixed through population balancing. Not artificial multipliers.

    amen to this. some matchups are just plain bad and boring when 1 server plays at one time of day and the other(s) play at another time of the day….

    Thankfully it’s within your power to do that! Get like-minded guilds to spread out through the tiers!

    Won’t do it? Well it’s the only way to get what you want. The choice is yours.

    Otherwise be thankful Anet came up with an outside the box idea. You can’t expect Anet to play parent and force people to spread out for match parity, it’s like herding cats. They’d just get things nicely balanced and the mass migration would ensue again.

    Be the change you want to see.

    L’enfer, c’est les autres

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    Posted by: morrolan.9608

    morrolan.9608

    We want to improve scoring for a few big reasons:

    • Reduce the need for 24 hour coverage by reducing the effects of off-hours capping (night capping)
      […]
    • In conjunction with population rebalancing, updating Scoring allows us to decide a winner of a match more fairly, and thus reward players more fairly

    As an Aust. player on a server where the NA population is smaller than most your proposal will alienate non NA players, you should do 1 of the following which have all been mentioned by others:
    -base the scoring on time slices reflective of each major timezone;
    -base the scoring on the relative size of the total population for the matchup on a dynamic basis;
    -do more to balance the population, balanced populations will ensure scoring is even. This would require you do more to change the mode than your current proposals but drastic measures are needed.

    Upgraded Objectives Score Higher

    • Each tier of objective upgrade increases the amount of score per tick
    • The goal is to incentivize defending your upgraded objectives and assaulting opposing upgraded objectives

    In practical terms having coming up against a server like YB this is just going to encourage turtling inside keeps and towers behind siege and tactics even more than now. Siege and tactics should all be drastically nerfed to encourage more active defending.

    [quote=6145749;Tyler Bearce.3427:][quote=6145749;Tyler Bearce.3427:][quote=6146251;Ulion.5476:]

    Jade Quarry [SoX]
    Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
    Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro

    (edited by morrolan.9608)

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    Posted by: Grim West.3194

    Grim West.3194

    “In conjunction with population rebalancing..”

    What rebalancing?

    Population imbalances are by far the biggest problem in WvW. The biggest zerg ALWAYS wins and get all the rewards. That’s not competition and you know it. And yet you barely mention it.

    Until you fix the massive stacking and population balance problems all of this other stuff is wasted effort and a bunch of fluff. I refuse to pay for a transfer and many people will not play this game ever again until you start fixing this issue. WvW is a sad joke because you have never dealt with this issue, but instead encourage people to pay you to transfer.

    What are you going to to about it?

    (edited by Grim West.3194)

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    Posted by: Ryu Kaisus.1293

    Ryu Kaisus.1293

    Good changes all around. I’m for the controversial one too.

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    Posted by: Ogre.3124

    Ogre.3124

    Population imbalances are by far the biggest problem in WvW. The biggest zerg ALWAYS wins

    Tier 1 players actually believe this

    Maguuma

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    Posted by: Noein.7635

    Noein.7635

    There will always be individuals who are upset with change, and when it comes to WvW, PPT is very controversial.

    Do what you did with rewards; after implementation and some play time, poll everyone and ask if they like the new PPT overhaul.

    Also, thanks Anet for doing a complete 360. That was a close one.

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    Posted by: roamzero.9486

    roamzero.9486

    The biggest zerg ALWAYS wins and get all the rewards. That’s not competition and you know it. And yet you barely mention it.

    I would like to see this addressed somehow. There should be a distinct tradeoff between running a giant zerg and splitting up, with advantages and disadvantages to both. It would also be neat if there were more “clutch” options available, such as personal siege that can only be deployed by a player once per skirmish that would work really well against a zerg. But other than that I think the changes on paper are worth trying.

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    Posted by: Swagger.1459

    Swagger.1459

    This would be the end of Power of the Mists buff. Most players don’t really notice the buff. Nor do they play WvW specifically for the buff, so it hasn’t served as an effective motivator for winning matches. It also tends to reward PvE players more than WvW players. The upside to removing the buff, for WvW players, is that it should help our case for further improving WvW rewards, because it’d be lowering the rewards entering the game from elsewhere.

    Does that “case” include unique wvw legendary weapons, armors and back pieces?

    New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

    221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

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    Posted by: SailorSpira.9371

    SailorSpira.9371

    Potential (controversial) additional change:

    • While the above change takes steps to bring the value of off-hours coverage in-line, there’s a good chance it’ll still be overvalued. If that’s the case (and we’ll eventually poll on this), then we have plans for an additional system.
    • This is the Action Level – Victory Point Multiplier system
      • This system would multiply the Victory Points awarded by Skirmishes based on map populations and time of day.
      • During prime time hours, the multiplier would always be at it’s maximum of 3.
      • During off hours, the multiplier might stay at 3 or drop to 2 or 1, depending on on activity level.
      • It’s important to include map populations as a factor, to make the system more fair for off hours players and its important to include time-of-day as a factor to prevent a winning team from trying to keep the score muliplier low by exiting WvW

    Hi Tyler thanks for posting the details, i’m really excited for all the new updates except the one i’ve quoted above.

    I’ve seen a lot of posts on the forums on “night capping” over the last few years and I’ve never felt the need to respond as it was always the same tired arguments and I always thought surely Anet won’t respond to this nonsense.

    I am a dreaded night capper, why? Because I live outside the US. Does this mean I run around empty maps taking all the other guys stuff and laughing “Bwahha take that sleepers”? No.

    Yes there is less activity on most servers at this time, but I’ve played against eight other servers and every single one of them had equal, more or at most 2-3 less players on at that time then we did. Yes there are less people but there are still fights, objectives are defended and skill is involved.

    Why then do some servers lose everything and others don’t? Co-ordination, leadership and dedication. If you can’t defend a keep with 8 people against 10, you deserve to lose it at any time of the day.

    My server has been grossly out numbered in these time zones in the past but at the moment we’re generally falling in the middle, facing a server which grossly out numbers us and one that just gives up on off hours despite having enough people to defend. But we generally don’t go losing all our points because we have players who are dedicated to defending and if they can capping… at night!

    I often see these off hour players one man per tower, they siege it, they guard it, they scout it, when it’s attacked they defend it. They kill the guys trying to take it or if they die defending they’ll be back in 5 mins to recap so the server doesn’t lose PPT and start again.

    They use their own siege they get very little world exp and loot but they get enjoyment from contributing to the server. When you tell them they’re not as important because the map isn’t qued they’re going to start losing enjoyment and losing players.

    I’d also be concerned about servers which have strong OCX/SEA/EU presence, It might be worth looking at servers with these higher numbers where would they now sit on the new system? If it would cause a drastic drop then that is something you may want to think about.

    It’s a 24hr game, people who play prime time already get rewarded with more fights, exp and loot is making them more important then the rest of us really worth it?

    Edit for clarification: Referring in this post generally to late SEA early EU. Still plenty of activity OCX.

    FA [CC]

    (edited by SailorSpira.9371)

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    Posted by: Cake.4920

    Cake.4920

    Night capping needs to be fixed through population balancing. Not artificial multipliers.

    Even if every server has the same amount of population throughout the day, those playing at night still contribute more war score per person under the current system.

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    Posted by: Khisanth.2948

    Khisanth.2948

    This would be the end of Power of the Mists buff. Most players don’t really notice the buff. Nor do they play WvW specifically for the buff, so it hasn’t served as an effective motivator for winning matches. It also tends to reward PvE players more than WvW players. The upside to removing the buff, for WvW players, is that it should help our case for further improving WvW rewards, because it’d be lowering the rewards entering the game from elsewhere.

    Heh … also slightly fewer PvE players wondering why their HP is suddenly lowered.

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    Posted by: SirNukes.7854

    SirNukes.7854

    Instead of your idea of skirmishes, I would suggest instead just applying diminishing returns to PPT to avoid some motivation problems.

    With skirmishes, if I am a player on a weak world that is locked into last place for the skirmish, I have no PPT motivation to play. Similarly, if I am part of a small havok group on the strong world that is locked in first, I again lack PPT motivation. Scaling points by timezone is fraught with its own issues, as elaborated on in other posts. Scaling based on population has problems such as people using the Citadel crafting stations, or people sitting around accumulating participation rewards while occasionally repairing a wall or killing a guard (which also leads to a queued world only being able to field a 15 map group).

    I have long felt that WvW would benefit instead from diminishing returns on PPT, something like:
    PPT awarded = sqrt( point total of holdings) * 15
    With the above, average holdings would still be worth the same, but holding just a single camp would be worth 33 points (instead of 5) while holding absolutely everything would be worth only 395 points (instead of 695).

    With diminishing returns, nightcapping would still be nerfed, but it reverses the lack of motivation problem. A weak world’s players would be encouraged to turn out, since now their ability to hold a tower and two camps is worth thrice as much.

    PPK I feel is generally bad for WvW. Winning fights and getting kills is already tremendously awarded with: fun, ego, loot, moral, group cohesion, ability to take or hold objectives, and misc bonuses (stacking sigils, holding onto banners their full duration, etc.). Adding points to that is unnecessary, and just adds another source of demotivation for the weaker world’s players to fight when outnumbered or outclassed.

    Points for upgraded objectives is similarly problematic. Strong worlds are much more likely to build up upgrades (and add guild buffs), to the point where their spawn side holdings are often effectively removed from the matchup since the other worlds cannot threaten them. If you want to add points for upgraded holdings, I suggest limiting it only to holdings in enemy territory (their third of the map) and camps.

    Amazon Basin
    SBI

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    Posted by: Cake.4920

    Cake.4920

    When you tell them they’re not as important because the map isn’t qued they’re going to start losing enjoyment and losing players.

    But if the map was queued, they’d be able to do less.

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    Posted by: Johje Holan.4607

    Johje Holan.4607

    It’s important that PPT continues to be the primary source of score. PPK just accounts for a very low percentage of score currently, and at the least we should be able to safely double the score from kills.

    I specifically avoided going into too many specific numbers or formulas because it’s really easy for people to get hyper-focused on arguing the details of a proposal and lose sight of the bigger picture. For instance I didn’t say how many Victory Points a Skirmish would award. There’s probably 3 reasonable starting points: 3/2/1, 2/1/0 and 5/3/1. I’m leaning towards the first, but I can see pros and cons to any of them. However, regardless on which set we decide on, it’ll be an improvement on the existing match scoring system. Once we’ve built the system, tweaking things like the number of Victory Points awarded for Skirmish placement will be an easy thing to do.

    perhaps consider 5/3/2. 5/3/1, 3/2/1, and 2/1/0 arent fundamentally different. they all have equal spacing.

    i too am not so concerned with specifics. thats for you guys to do. you get to test out things because you have the test environment and the ability to change things. so im keeping this short.

    + 1000 Yes please look at using 5/3/2 Tyler. You all need to encourage playing for 1st and attacking the strongest server. If its any of the others you’ll end up with the weaker servers playing for 2nd. And both #1 and #2 attacking #3.

    A 2v1 on the weakest server is as bad as “nightcapping”.

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    Posted by: Cake.4920

    Cake.4920

    • Warscore for Caravan Kills, Caravan Delivery and Sentry Capture should increase by at a similar rate as PPK.

    Please please please go the other direction with this. Dolyaks are currently worth way too much, often outscoring the objectives they deliver supply to. Small roaming squads are currently the most efficient way to PPT, and they still will be even after a nerf. At most, yaks should be worth 1 warscore under the current system.

    Sentries suffer from another problem, in that they only award points on cap instead of on tick. This means that if you own a sentry, to get the most points out of it, you should let the enemy cap it, so you can recap it later to get a point. If you increase the points per capture on these, you may just end up with servers sentry trading.

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    Posted by: Blackarps.1974

    Blackarps.1974

    This would be the end of Power of the Mists buff. Most players don’t really notice the buff. Nor do they play WvW specifically for the buff, so it hasn’t served as an effective motivator for winning matches. It also tends to reward PvE players more than WvW players. The upside to removing the buff, for WvW players, is that it should help our case for further improving WvW rewards, because it’d be lowering the rewards entering the game from elsewhere.

    Does that “case” include unique wvw legendary weapons, armors and back pieces?

    That would be amazing. I’d love to get legendary gear just through being in WvW. I think that’s too big of a reach though. Anet really likes pushing people around the game and doing content they might not enjoy. Its hard to blame them for that though because they put a lot of work into those other areas as well. Anyways, yeah it’d be nice to work towards a greater good in WvW.

    Maguuma Guardian

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    Posted by: Arzael.1823

    Arzael.1823

    Nightcapping? We all paid the same for this game. We paid for wvw 24h possible. Many of us have jobs or other circumstances so we play while night, some only in the morning. Would be the same if you would close pvp or pve during night! So why doing this to us wvw fans.
    I would prefer the idea of more score for every lvl of the objects.
    But 1 question… do you ever play wvw? It would help arenanet to realize why fans love wvw and why we don’t want edge of mist on every border !

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    Posted by: Grim West.3194

    Grim West.3194

    Population imbalances are by far the biggest problem in WvW. The biggest zerg ALWAYS wins

    Tier 1 players actually believe this

    Yeap, a couple of groups can overcome the zerg!, That is why Tier 8 servers regularly rose up to beat the Tier 1 servers /rolls eyes. Lol, it never happened for a reason.

    Just look at the history of BG and JQ. They stayed on top because they had the numbers. JQ didn’t drop from T1 until ANET leaked some info and there was a massive transfer of players OFF of JQ. Ooh and look at all that transfer money ANET got! Cha Ching! Every server that fell from top tiers did so because of populations transfering off. Every server that rises is because of stacking. Period.

    Massive disparities in population always win, in all tiers, and I’ve played in most of the tiers. Anyone who claims that numbers don’t matter is fooling themselves.

    Teams don’t have to be perfectly even, but if there are massive disparities like we have now, then it is impossible to overcome.

    WvW encourages stacking because of it’s bad design. And ANET encourages stacking because of their short sighted love of transfer money. Until they stop their transfer money grab and actively force population balance, everything else being talked about here is a total waste of time.
    .

    You can’t rely on players to balance things out on their own. EVERY RvR game (especially 2 faction games like WarHammer, Aion, etc etc) has failed when players are allowed to stack one side over another. Fix that basic issue first, then work on the lesser important mechanics.

    Until RvR devs admit that basic fact, RvR games will continue to fail.

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    Posted by: Ogre.3124

    Ogre.3124

    Population imbalances are by far the biggest problem in WvW. The biggest zerg ALWAYS wins

    Tier 1 players actually believe this

    Yeap, a couple of groups can overcome the zerg!, That is why Tier 8 servers regularly rose up to beat the Tier 1 servers /rolls eyes. Lol, it never happened for a reason.

    Winning the matchup and winning fights are different. During the TC/Mag matchup our kdr was at one point higher than theirs then only slightly lower at the end of the week. This was while outnumbered.

    Maguuma

    (edited by Ogre.3124)

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    Posted by: ThunderPanda.1872

    ThunderPanda.1872

    I’m not sure exactly how scaling based on population works. But I hope it’s based off the poplulation on ALL side (e.g. even numbers, say like 30 people each team will get you 3 points) and not overall population say like < 100 people across wvw hence get scaling if 1

    Send me 1000g and I will stop trolling WvW forum.
    I have a dream – Our Anet Senpai will make WvW Great Again!
    WvW Forum is more competitive than WvW

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    Posted by: Klypto.1703

    Klypto.1703

    First mistake was bringing back alpine maps. All the complaining ppl who claim they quit over the desert ones didn’t even come back. So the quality of life aspect that didn’t win is lowered. At the very least it would be great if we had a rotating map like factions of gw1 worked where it pushed one way or the other so you don’t see this old looking alpine map and at some point get to the one that looks like it had a lot of time put into it and was interesting to play on.

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    Posted by: gloflop.3510

    gloflop.3510

    We want to improve scoring for a few big reasons:

    • Reduce the need for 24 hour coverage by reducing the effects of off-hours capping (night capping)

    And reduce the number of players who will consider it as worth to stay up all night. Just keep it in mind!

    • It’s not okay that the time periods with the smallest number of active players have the largest impact on the score

    Every tick counts equal at the moment. I doubt the “largest impact” story. It has the same impact.

    • That feeling of hopelessness when your team is down 100,000 points after a single day

    100k behind after 1 day is really a lot. Now roughly half of the matchup is played and in not even a single case the difference is 100k and you talk about it after a day? I have doubts that this ever occurred.

    Changes to Match Structure:

    • We’ll split the week long matches into 2 hour time slices we are calling ‘Skirmishes’
    • Warscore is used to determine the winner of a Skirmish
    • Skirmishes award varying amounts of Victory Points based on placement
    • Victory Points are used to determine Match victor
    • When a Skirmish ends, Warscore is reset, but actual map-state remains unchanged

    If I understand it correctly, you will abandon the tick and replace it with “skrimish”. How will the matchup be determined? Traditionally or with the new rules? I fear other imbalances with the new rules. Let us say a server has a strong primetime and a weak off-time. With the old rules, the primetime was weighted more and hence the server climbed in the ranking. It got opponents which actually had a chance competing with them in the primetime. Now the sever will fall until it can compete in the off-time.

    • Teams will still want to win as many time slices as possible, off-hours coverage is still important, but less dominant

    I dont get it. I simply dont understand what you want to say here.

    • This system would multiply the Victory Points awarded by Skirmishes based on map populations and time of day.
    • During prime time hours, the multiplier would always be at it’s maximum of 3.
    • During off hours, the multiplier might stay at 3 or drop to 2 or 1, depending on on activity level.
    • It’s important to include map populations as a factor, to make the system more fair for off hours players and its important to include time-of-day as a factor to prevent a winning team from trying to keep the score muliplier low by exiting WvW

    I got several questions here:
    First: Why a maximum of 3? Why not 2.9 or 3.1? It sounds to me as a random number.
    Second: How will you account for public holidays? It will be relatively easy in NA. Think of the EU. If there is a French public holiday (and only in France), French servers are normally crowded, the rest not.
    Third: How will you account for cultural differences? Especially in the EU not only time-zones but also culture plays an important role in when you have free time and when you have to work. Best example is the “Spanish Siesta”. Another example is the German strength between 5-8 in the morning. I can see the flames coming.
    Fourth: How will you ensure that I actually understand the scoring? Now I get 2 points, next I get 5, then 3? I dont have a master degree in guild-wars-scoring and I will not try to achieve one.

    Last Stand

    • Last Stand describes the final day of any week long matchup
    • During Last Stand, Skirmish placement Victory Points are multiplied
    • This is intended to make the last day of the match as exciting as the first, and provide a final comeback mechanic for teams that are behind

    and this will cause an imbalance again. A server now only wins and constantly wins because it has a good friday? Especially when we think about the cultural differences among Europe. In some countries the people work more during the week and less on Friday, in others on Friday as much as on Thursday.

    Reduced the Score Tick Timer from 15 minutes to 5 minutes

    • This will guarantee that every objective is grants at least one score pulse before it can be flipped by another team.

    Keep in mind, it will change the strategic behaviour.

    Upgraded Objectives Score Higher

    • Each tier of objective upgrade increases the amount of score per tick

    It does already implicitly. It is easier to defend if it is upgraded. Hence, I will keep it longer. You will add another reward. You may cause an imbalance. Keep it in mind!

    • The goal is to incentivize defending your upgraded objectives and assaulting opposing upgraded objectives

    I dont expect any changes in the behaviour. Currently t3 gets more attention than t0.

    Points for Kill

    • The amount of score earned from PPK will be increased, so that it contributes more to the overall score.
    • As a rough number, PPK may increase to 3-5 points, rather than 1, with diminishing returns on killing players who have been alive for less than 5 minutes.

    Which means that I will try to avoid more battles which seem to be unbalanced. Which means that suicide missions (e.g. in order to kill a treb) will become less attractive. You punish for lower population and thats exactly what you wanted to change. I would go rather in the opposite direction and abandon ppk.

    All combined I would say: The model will cause more trouble than it solves.

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    Posted by: neven.3785

    neven.3785

    Through the years I’ve played most of my time late na or in sea hours when I worked graveyard shifts. play style has been varied: fight guilds (not the blob ones), small man havoc, roaming and even defense. in all of these instances scores had little impact on how much I enjoyed my play experience.

    It baffles me that people are shouting down this change as if their sole enjoyment in the off hours relied on it. they are ignoring the key point, the multiplier or lack there of is dynamic. rather then yelling neigh, push for more clarification. in the end I want people to play against and I want people to outmaneuver. both of those require population in all sides. these changes promote glicko balancing for the majority of total hours played on NA. even if my time slot is dead in maguuma (an eu to est server) compared to those servers above us, im still a fan of this.
    Now for specifics I hope the dynamic off hour victory point multiplier is based off a weekly average of total population in a slice period for a given server on all bls and ebg (not eotm). compare server averages to dictate multiplier.

    Ie. say a if it’s 1:1:1 +/-0.25 then it should still be a full multiplier for that slice. if one server is 2:1:1 then it should be *2. if a server is 3:1:1 then no multiplier

    In the end the server with off hour coverage still has an advantage, people are ignoring this point. they are still scoring points, still getting rewards for capping objectives, still able to pvdoor, they just don’t lock in a win guaranteed and negate the other 18 hours a day.

    With luck some of the upper tier groups will disperse to competing servers to the point the multiplier will always be 2 or 3 for most of the days time slices. ie a healthy wvw environment.

    (edited by neven.3785)

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    Posted by: Ogre.3124

    Ogre.3124

    And reduce the number of players who will consider it as worth to stay up all night. Just keep it in mind!

    Having to stay up all night because OCX/SEA players would otherwise cap uncontested objectives. Good point.

    Maguuma

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    Posted by: Tyrx.2471

    Tyrx.2471

    Que the “offended OCX/SEA” forum poster trying to keep their advantage over NA players on NA servers.

    You know it works both ways, right? There can be tiers with supposedly “NA” servers which have a much greater OSX/SEA presence compared to their NA presence across all 3 servers. The proposed system would punish these tiers even when they have queues on all maps. In this situation, is it fair for NA players who may not have queues on their maps to get a bonus over their queued OSX/SEA counterparts?

    I think ArenaNet really needs to confirm if bonuses will be based on an ever-changing time which is dependent on population activity, or if they will be limited to fixed times that never change. The original announcement doesn’t really make this clear, and that’s where most of the complaining is coming from.

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    Posted by: Gideon.6742

    Gideon.6742

    Having upgraded structures count as more points is another huge advantage to the off hour coverage. It’s much harder to upgrade alpine now and the larger server stuff is almost constantly T3 since the other servers are on their heels with wooden structures going into prime.

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    Posted by: Elterzzz.4378

    Elterzzz.4378

    at least the game is still coverage wars

    Dragon King of War; Death Divine X; Mesmereyezzz;
    Founder of War Brigade [WAR] -[MERC][TF]
    Sea of Sorrows. Crystal Desert.

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    Posted by: Elterzzz.4378

    Elterzzz.4378

    Population imbalances are by far the biggest problem in WvW. The biggest zerg ALWAYS wins

    Tier 1 players actually believe this

    Yeap, a couple of groups can overcome the zerg!, That is why Tier 8 servers regularly rose up to beat the Tier 1 servers /rolls eyes. Lol, it never happened for a reason.

    Winning the matchup and winning fights are different. During the TC/Mag matchup our kdr was at one point higher than theirs then only slightly lower at the end of the week. This was while outnumbered.

    implying that KDR matters. LOL

    Dragon King of War; Death Divine X; Mesmereyezzz;
    Founder of War Brigade [WAR] -[MERC][TF]
    Sea of Sorrows. Crystal Desert.

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    Posted by: Grim West.3194

    Grim West.3194

    Population imbalances are by far the biggest problem in WvW. The biggest zerg ALWAYS wins

    Tier 1 players actually believe this

    Yeap, a couple of groups can overcome the zerg!, That is why Tier 8 servers regularly rose up to beat the Tier 1 servers /rolls eyes. Lol, it never happened for a reason.

    Winning the matchup and winning fights are different. During the TC/Mag matchup our kdr was at one point higher than theirs then only slightly lower at the end of the week. This was while outnumbered.

    The rule changes being discussed here have nothing to do with your post. Winning the occasional skirmish against larger numbers is not special. Everyone has done it, on every server.

    Your server can not win against BG in the current state of the game, ever, unless you stack your server or BG destacks. Skill does not matter.

    This thread is about winning matches and changes to scoring that will allow matches to rotate against ALL servers and be competitive. To do that, every server has to have roughly the same population in WvW. Otherwise all of these changes being discussed are a waste of time. And everyone will be stuck fighting the same servers over and over, just like before. Is that what you want? Sounds like it. Good luck with that.

    There are good players on all servers. But the reason BG is winning now is because they have the most players. Period. A strategy with zero skill that ANET has encouraged with their horrible design. And when players feel that stacking is the only strategy that can win, then most of them will go to other games. Like they already have.

    A game that encourages stacking to win is a failed game for failed players who can not win in any other way, in any game.

    And reduce the number of players who will consider it as worth to stay up all night. Just keep it in mind!

    Having to stay up all night because OCX/SEA players would otherwise cap uncontested objectives. Good point.

    If you think stacking is such a good idea then why are you against the OCX / SEA players?

    (edited by Grim West.3194)

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    Posted by: PredatorTHW.6251

    PredatorTHW.6251

    Upgraded Objectives Score Higher

    • Each tier of objective upgrade increases the amount of score per tick
    • The goal is to incentivize defending your upgraded objectives and assaulting opposing upgraded objectives

    Please note that this is a loser punisher. The comeback chance for the losing them will be much smaller / impossible when they are facing T3 objective with high score per tick.

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    Posted by: Roxanne.6140

    Roxanne.6140

    Goodbye ocx/sea. Game looks racist now


    gaem not made for mi
    ===========

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    Posted by: lil devils x.6071

    lil devils x.6071

    I agree with Luvpie here, everyone’s effort should be valued the same regardless of what time they are able to play. This is punishing players for working nights, living in California or Hawaii, or only having one day off a week and I do not think that is how scoring in any game should work. If you remove passive scoring basing it primarily on increased PPK for players fighting other players over an objective without the use of siege and stop trying to prop up players who should not rightly win, it would solve the issue without having to set " special scoring circumstances" for every " disadvantaged group" out there. Everyone would have the same advantage and due to the less players fighting in off hours than primetime, the PPK would necessarily be reduced to the number of players playing during that time. I think the problem with the scoring system is you are trying to reward people for lazy/bad game play rather than just reward the better teams.

    The only thing that allows to score to runaway when players are not on is the passive scoring that rewards PvD at all, and that should be removed entirely and you solve the problem. Replacing the passive scoring with active scoring based on the players fighting over the objectives rather than just the objectives themselves, makes the players want to fight over the objectives instead because it removes the benefits for PvD.

    It should work like this:

    • Increased PPK and LOOT for players fighting over objectives ( Yak camp, tower keep ect) without the use of siege.
    • defending team gets slightly higher PPK and LOOT than attacking team. ( This ensures players come back to defend rather than just attacks and makes ownership of the objectives more valuable to players than they currently are now since their loot and score depend on owning them. This would block the K train)
    • No PPK or LOOT for siege damage on players. Siege can still do more damage on players than their character, but they will have to forego their LOOT and PPK if they even think about touching that AC. This encourages players to learn their characters and fight with characters instead of siege, and make hard choices and discourages zerg siege humping encouraging fun fights instead.
    • Remove passive scoring from the game and since the score would be determined only by players fighting over objectives, owning the objectives would be more valuable to players as well as the score being fair during all time zones since the scoring is based on PvP, not PvD it is treating all time zones and players equally, while also eliminating the invented nonsensical term “night capping” having any affect on the score. If there are no players to fight on the map, obviously they cannot run up the score.

    Trying to give " this group a handicap" doesn’t help them at all, instead it only ensures they will be fighting servers that should not have been fighting longer instead of letting them move to a proper tier to fight their equals instead. Allowing a straight up direct score based on PPK to stand would ensure that equal fighters are matched up sooner rather than tormenting other servers they do not belong matched up with in the first place. Use of mutiplyers like this causes more problems than it solves. If they want players to care about the score and be proud of winning rather than embarrassed, remove passive scoring. Stop rewarding bad and lazy players PvD and let the best fighters win .Players are okay with being beat by the better fighters, they are no okay with being beat by zergs siege humping refusing to fight.

    [KILL]Killing Tiers Leader [TOON] Toons of Terror Leader [NEWS This Just In Leader
    WvW / PVP ONLY

    (edited by lil devils x.6071)

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    Posted by: Luvpie.8350

    Luvpie.8350

    Que the “offended OCX/SEA” forum poster trying to keep their advantage over NA players on NA servers.

    You know it works both ways, right? There can be tiers with supposedly “NA” servers which have a much greater OSX/SEA presence compared to their NA presence across all 3 servers. The proposed system would punish these tiers even when they have queues on all maps. In this situation, is it fair for NA players who may not have queues on their maps to get a bonus over their queued OSX/SEA counterparts?

    I think ArenaNet really needs to confirm if bonuses will be based on an ever-changing time which is dependent on population activity, or if they will be limited to fixed times that never change. The original announcement doesn’t really make this clear, and that’s where most of the complaining is coming from.

    Tyler’s subsequent post that NA prime is 6 hr block will have higher value compared to rest of time makes it pretty clear. Basically akittento anyone that doesn’t play during those 6 hours.

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    Posted by: morrolan.9608

    morrolan.9608

    I think ArenaNet really needs to confirm if bonuses will be based on an ever-changing time which is dependent on population activity, or if they will be limited to fixed times that never change. The original announcement doesn’t really make this clear, and that’s where most of the complaining is coming from.

    Its limited to a fixed 6 hour time period during NA peak. There may be an adjustment if the population during another time period is high but it remains to be seen how this would work and how it would trigger.

    Jade Quarry [SoX]
    Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
    Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro

    (edited by morrolan.9608)

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    Posted by: Chaba.5410

    Chaba.5410

    This would be the end of Power of the Mists buff. Most players don’t really notice the buff.

    Hope there’s an equivalent to make up for this in PvE. That’s a huge hit to come later in the week. I always waited to craft before reset. To use boosters toward the endof the week to stack the effectiveness. Better up the Guild ones, let us use two Guild ones at once, or something.

    Any other bad news for today? Might as well toss it all out on us now…

    I think removing Power of the Mists is great. PvE players never understood it and demanded that WvW get removed from map completion so they wouldn’t have to participate. Rewards need to be tied to participation, not something passive that was never really noticed.

    Chaba Tangnu
    Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
    RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

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    Posted by: Luvpie.8350

    Luvpie.8350

    It should work like this:

    • Increased PPK and LOOT for players fighting over objectives ( Yak camp, tower keep ect) without the use of siege.
    • defending team gets slightly higher PPK and LOOT than attacking team. ( This ensures players come back to defend rather than just attacks and makes ownership of the objectives more valuable to players than they currently are now since their loot and score depend on owning them. This would block the K train)
    • No PPK or LOOT for siege damage on players. Siege can still do more damage on players than their character, but they will have to forego their LOOT and PPK if they even think about touching that AC. This encourages players to learn their characters and fight with characters instead of siege, and make hard choices and discourages zerg siege humping encouraging fun fights instead.
    • Remove passive scoring from the game and since the score would be determined only by players fighting over objectives, owning the objectives would be more valuable to players as well as the score being fair during all time zones since the scoring is based on PvP, not PvD it is treating all time zones and players equally, while also eliminating the invented nonsensical term “night capping” having any affect on the score. If there are no players to fight on the map, obviously they cannot run up the score.

    Can we just get rid of PPT entirely from ticks? It will solve off hours etc.
    Keep things simple and build on following:

    PPK for 5 points per kill to start and fine tune & siege doesn’t count for kills
    Points from successful defense will be 5-10 and will look at defenders/attackers ratio
    Points from capping a undefended obj will be 0
    Points from capping a defending obj will 5-10 and will look at defenders/attackers to determine ratio

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    Posted by: Cake.4920

    Cake.4920

    Que the “offended OCX/SEA” forum poster trying to keep their advantage over NA players on NA servers.

    You know it works both ways, right? There can be tiers with supposedly “NA” servers which have a much greater OSX/SEA presence compared to their NA presence across all 3 servers. The proposed system would punish these tiers even when they have queues on all maps. In this situation, is it fair for NA players who may not have queues on their maps to get a bonus over their queued OSX/SEA counterparts?

    I think ArenaNet really needs to confirm if bonuses will be based on an ever-changing time which is dependent on population activity, or if they will be limited to fixed times that never change. The original announcement doesn’t really make this clear, and that’s where most of the complaining is coming from.

    Name these 3 servers that have more OSX/SEA than NA.

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    Posted by: Roxanne.6140

    Roxanne.6140

    Most servers have a good population of non NA players. There are fights even during non NA prime time. SURPRISE!!!! Wow huh..

    My suggestion is to designate 3 servers for EU, 3 servers for SEA and 3 servers for ocx. There is a significant population of Non-na players and this will prevent shaving off the player population by a fair bit


    gaem not made for mi
    ===========

    (edited by Roxanne.6140)

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    Posted by: morrolan.9608

    morrolan.9608

    Name these 3 servers that have more OSX/SEA than NA.

    JQ currently for one.

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    Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
    Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro

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    Posted by: morrolan.9608

    morrolan.9608

    forum bug <15 chars>

    Jade Quarry [SoX]
    Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
    Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro