Guild Wars 2

arrow cart cant be OP because they are static defences in a mostly mobile game – maybe they should add a couple of seconds of delay to entering/exiting fire mode so the operator is more dependant on other for self defence but I dont think its really necessary and would make looting a lot harder (all those bags, those beautifull bags!)

Was not Warhammer Online enough to see the flaw of ‘returns damage when hit’ mechanic? Was the infinite Chosen zerg with damage reflection auras not enough? I fail to see how the developers claim they have studied the RvR focused games when developing WvW mode. They simply didnt. Retaliation auras vs aoe is such an outrageous balance flaw that it cannot be ignored, or forgotten, or misunderstood. The only thing that the current situation highlight is the utter lack of study by gw2 developers. Way to go, repeat all the mistakes all the developers did in the last 10 years. And then people wonder why there arent any successful RvR games around..

massed long range aoe can be a problem too (another lesson from warhammer…), retaliation is intended as a counter to that – its just really hard to balance.

Yeh i think arrow carts are OP’d HOWEVER, that’s just my opinion, im not gonna moan about it, i just find another way to fight them. (there will ALWAYS be cries of "that’s op’d and mostly that just means "I havent worked out how to fight that yet so I’ll cry OP’d LOL) and that ISNT my main concern here.

LOL @ Tevesh – yeh again I agree with the chosen issue.. However KotBS STILL have reflect damage..go figure.

@ NixZero – Again, i agree, to some extent. But when the trebs are firing from way beyond even draw distance range, its broken, it means the defenders dont even have to come out of their keep to eliminate the treat. They can ‘turtle’ and when the trebs go down from miles away, repair, job done, no one is taking this keep! Im suggesting maybe a range or even retaliation on the siege operator NOT the equipment itself. I have no issues from pulling away from the treb for a few moments if I get hit, heal up, give the defenders a rest-bite to plan their offensive, before I start hitting them again.

Karicus.8356:

@ NixZero – Again, i agree, to some extent. But when the trebs are firing from way beyond even draw distance range, its broken, it means the defenders dont even have to come out of their keep to eliminate the treat. They can ‘turtle’ and when the trebs go down from miles away, repair, job done, no one is taking this keep! Im suggesting maybe a range or even retaliation on the siege operator NOT the equipment itself. I have no issues from pulling away from the treb for a few moments if I get hit, heal up, give the defenders a rest-bite to plan their offensive, before I start hitting them again.

treb have really too long range, I concour, the ability to hit a fort from inside another fort make for a really static war of attrition – but we were talking about arrow carts, not trebs ^^
btw the best anti-siege machine strategy is just to negate supplies.
with no supply there wont be any siege machine.
kill those hairy quadrupedes!

MikeFerguson.8921:

We intend to make it so retaliation does not effect siege weapons. No ETA, but we’re looking into it.

If you do this, please consider limiting where siege can be placed, otherwise getting into the throne room in some keeps will be nearly impossible if they have siege inside.

I think it should just effect weapons to a lesser extent. Often times it’s the only way to kill well placed siege weapons.

There’s absolutely no sense in having retaliation do anything to a siege weapon. Siege weapons are just that… weapons for sieging. Retaliation is not. Well placed siege is what makes this game fun. It’s called strategy. 1 single skill should not negate that.

I really hope this change only affects retaliation and no other abilities like reflect skills for projectiles otherwise stacking seige in one place will make it imposible to take.

Syphen.1980:

I really hope this change only affects retaliation and no other abilities like reflect skills for projectiles otherwise stacking seige in one place will make it imposible to take.

Disagree. You’ll just have to think about it more and do something other than “rush in”.

Mass stealth, mass speed, run in, kill the operators. Guardians can teleport 1200 range to target and then bat them away so that’s about as close as they need to sneak in.

Massed siege defending the walls of a tower or keep will be beaten by well place trebuchets. The best arrow carts can also be hit by wide-area AE from the ground (a fully protected arrow cart won’t be able to see enough ground to be effective).

There are plenty of counters available and in beta, they got some use. Once everyone learned about retaliation, all siege tactics and counter-tactics went out the window because the only thing you need is retaliation.

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Lots of big zerg guilds are going to be in for a shock when this change happens.