Guild Wars 2

Shadelang.3012:

Jim Hunter.6821:

What’s really funny is using epidemic on the pet right after a ranger clears conditions with signet of renewal.
Well… funny if you are the necro. Very annoying if you are the ranger.

^ I feel alot of people would find hte condi regen rangers alot less trouble if they remembered that the pet is a free condi bounce. It spends so much time acting as a condi soak for the ranger in that build. And most condi rangers dont pay attention to it at all excpet to activate f2s unlike the Power and Cleric BM builds.

Yup, that’s why one of the biggest benefits of using natures voice/guard is the pet stealth. A smart ranger can time his swaps and keep his pet hidden when he needs to but the smart rangers are few and far between.

Shadelang.3012:

First In response to it being focused specifically on the condi regen build. On that I apologize I misread the post in reference to a previous post I was considering. That is my fault.

On natural healing. I have never seen a single ranger use compassion training in a build outside of a very specific build.

It is true that rangers have many ways to regen. but its also true that necros are the best in the game at nuking healing.

Its true that bird f2 burst is quite nice. But its also true that you can two shot that bird in most power builds. Put both there birds on cooldown and your fairly set.

As far as the condi build itself goes. Ill be the first to say thats one of the cheesiest builds in the game as far as WvW roaming is concerned. Ill be the first to admit Ive died to that. Mostly because that build has literraly EVERYTHING. Honestly thats the ONE build a ranger has that I wouldnt be upset seeing a nerf directed at. And I play my ranger just as much as I do my necro.

Again I apologize for misunderstanding your previous post. What I said what largely in the context of fighting a power based ranger build. However like I said above that condi build is a whole nother level of easy mode gamestyle I never want anything to do with. The one week I played it I couldn’t stop feeling disgusted at myself.

Actually, rangers have higher poison uptime with dagger 4 then most necro builds. So in terms of “nuking healing” rangers “win”

Most who trait for regen also take evasive purity, which removes poison and blind on dodge. Couple this with protection on dodge and most power necro builds are severely reduced in efficiency.
Ranger can also do damage effectively with pet if the enemy is prioritizing the ranger. By no means is the necromancer profession weak, but it has an unfortunate matchup in the ranger. Unfortunately this discussion has so far, mostly been conducted with the premises that the necro is good/average and the ranger is average/trash. Meaning you assume that the necro must be better because necro player is better. This type of discussion has no root in facts and as seen, mostly evolve into a kitten contest.

If you want to shut down LB ranger as a necro you must understand that LB does not rely on zero cleansing, or even the marksman line. You can easily do 11-14k damage even if you have zero points In marksmanship.
Rangers favor critical hits and chance more then sheer damage mostly due to how their damage is split with the pet and subsequently how that affects skill coefficients.

You can, as a LB ranger run x464x or xx662 and still have terrifyingly high damage purely from utilities and might stacking, and yes, a ranger can easily maintain 12-15 stacks of might, which equals roughly around 420-570 power, more then the whole marksmanship line offers….

The 66×2x or 6×26x build that most rangers run is the most damaging but least efficient build you can run but fear not, they will not realize this before LB has been nerfed so hard that it is no longer “viable”

I main both professions and have 2k+ hours on each.

LB Ranger wins versus a Necro (regardless of power/condition build) assuming the Necro has no way to LOS the Ranger and assuming both are of equal skill. Necro wins only if they are substantially more skilled – this is assuming the Ranger isn’t a pew pew idiot.

Power Necro wins versus condition regen Ranger. Too much damage for the regen to out heal and too much life force generation to gain the upper hand. If the Ranger times their evades right (sword x2 and dagger x1) they can evade some of the major bursts but even so, dagger AA and Life Blast are devastating on their own and still enough to maintain the upper hand. Again assuming both are of even skill; if the Ranger is however more skilled they should likely win. A good condition regen Ranger is one of the hardest builds to fight because it’s well equipped to deal with just about anything.

Condition Necro wins versus trapper Ranger. Trapper only has passive condition cleanse. Assuming best case scenario (brown bear and Antitoxin runes) the Necro still has enough sustained condition damage to take the lead and enough condition management to defend themselves. Assuming the Ranger is more skilled, the Necromancer still wins unless the Necro is a total idiot and the Ranger is highly skilled.

Beastmaster versus minionmaster is a draw. Necromancer can likely deal more damage in this scenario but his minions are more difficult to control and less durable. The Ranger will also have higher healing power and likely more sustainability making the fight tip back in favor of the Ranger. I’d say it’s whoever runs out of pets first.

Spirit Ranger wins versus wellmancer. Unless the Necromancer wants to burn all their wells with longer cooldowns than spirits just to kill the spirits, the Ranger should win rather quickly. More sustained damage and more durability. Assuming the wellmancer is more skilled, they have a chance at winning but the odds are still against them.

LB Ranger still has the upper hand versus any Necromancer build due to greater range, better mobility, invulnerability and better kiting potential via cripple, Point Blank Shot and assuming they are using wolf, pet knockdowns. This is not to say it’s impossible for a Necromancer to win versus a longbow Ranger, just that unless the Necromancer is highly skilled or unless the Necromancer has some way to line of sight the Ranger, the Ranger can just disengage and continue to kite if they’re in danger of losing.

Jim Hunter.6821:

You are kidding right? A regen condi ranger is pretty much unlikable in a 1v1.

Not really, in my solo build I have lost exactly 0 times to a ranger 1v1.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Guess what, conversations evolve. I was referring to (and I believe Kilger was referring to) the regen condi build that has been discussed multiple times in this thread.

I wasn’t saying a build should run all of those traits at once, I was pointing out there are several ways of building for regen, most of which can not be stripped.

I would like to point out a few things though.

Natural healing ticks for 177 when paired with compassion training. Add signet of the wild to that and you have a solid regen.

Going 6 points in beastmastery does not leave you without burst. A birds F2 alone will deliver a mean burst when traited fully into beastmastery and depending on the gear and runes you run you could lay out a ton of condi damage at the same time.

You’re right in what you say however a regen ranger still depends on regen buff to make him what he is. Troll ungent is powerful but not above a necros heal, especially loaded with conditions. Natural healing takes a lot of commitment to make it a factor, 177 seems high but maybe its obtainable with maxing the healing attribute.

Like said, poison and stripping/corrupting will ruin a regen rangers day like nothing else. Only thing hurt worse is a guardian.

Also complaining about rapid fire is like saying you dont know how to dodge. Its about the only thing you need to dodge from a LB ranger so save it for that, it will shave off nearly the entire burst. Exception is maul if they pack a great sword.

edit: Or hit them with instant fear, whatever, many options. I have been playing ranger for past year so not completely up on the necro changes but the previous year I mained necro and rangers were nothing but trash to be steamrolled and barely noticed…

cillard.3986:

Jim Hunter.6821:

You are kidding right? A regen condi ranger is pretty much unlikable in a 1v1.

Not really, in my solo build I have lost exactly 0 times to a ranger 1v1.

and what kinda rangers did you fight? bearbows? BM using moa’s?

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I main both professions and have 2k+ hours on each.

LB Ranger wins versus a Necro (regardless of power/condition build) assuming the Necro has no way to LOS the Ranger and assuming both are of equal skill. Necro wins only if they are substantially more skilled – this is assuming the Ranger isn’t a pew pew idiot.

Power Necro wins versus condition regen Ranger. Too much damage for the regen to out heal and too much life force generation to gain the upper hand. If the Ranger times their evades right (sword x2 and dagger x1) they can evade some of the major bursts but even so, dagger AA and Life Blast are devastating on their own and still enough to maintain the upper hand. Again assuming both are of even skill; if the Ranger is however more skilled they should likely win. A good condition regen Ranger is one of the hardest builds to fight because it’s well equipped to deal with just about anything.

Condition Necro wins versus trapper Ranger. Trapper only has passive condition cleanse. Assuming best case scenario (brown bear and Antitoxin runes) the Necro still has enough sustained condition damage to take the lead and enough condition management to defend themselves. Assuming the Ranger is more skilled, the Necromancer still wins unless the Necro is a total idiot and the Ranger is highly skilled.

Beastmaster versus minionmaster is a draw. Necromancer can likely deal more damage in this scenario but his minions are more difficult to control and less durable. The Ranger will also have higher healing power and likely more sustainability making the fight tip back in favor of the Ranger. I’d say it’s whoever runs out of pets first.

Spirit Ranger wins versus wellmancer. Unless the Necromancer wants to burn all their wells with longer cooldowns than spirits just to kill the spirits, the Ranger should win rather quickly. More sustained damage and more durability. Assuming the wellmancer is more skilled, they have a chance at winning but the odds are still against them.

LB Ranger still has the upper hand versus any Necromancer build due to greater range, better mobility, invulnerability and better kiting potential via cripple, Point Blank Shot and assuming they are using wolf, pet knockdowns. This is not to say it’s impossible for a Necromancer to win versus a longbow Ranger, just that unless the Necromancer is highly skilled or unless the Necromancer has some way to line of sight the Ranger, the Ranger can just disengage and continue to kite if they’re in danger of losing.

just wanna note that trapper, using generosity sigils or purity sigils will draw against condi necro. However the strongest condi build for ranger is 02660 condition survival using SB or ST/AD, and a condimancer cannot apply conditions as fast, or as many stacks as fast, as the ranger can. In addition to this, said condi build is focused on surviving, so it is evasion heavy with 3-4 sources of active cleansing and often (not always) – empathic bond ontop of the active cleanses…. There is not many builds that can actually kill a survival ranger with conditions.

Prysin.8542:

just wanna note that trapper, using generosity sigils or purity sigils will draw against condi necro. However the strongest condi build for ranger is 02660 condition survival using SB or ST/AD, and a condimancer cannot apply conditions as fast, or as many stacks as fast, as the ranger can. In addition to this, said condi build is focused on surviving, so it is evasion heavy with 3-4 sources of active cleansing and often (not always) – empathic bond ontop of the active cleanses…. There is not many builds that can actually kill a survival ranger with conditions.

Thats what I run in spvp except hybrid with SotF and LR/Muddy Terrain/Entang for even more condition removal and still have had scarey moments where a necro reverse dumped everything in the book on me lol. Dont think they’ve won that way strictly 1-1 since also generally pressured by adds but I wouldnt be surprised.

Kilger.5490:

Prysin.8542:

just wanna note that trapper, using generosity sigils or purity sigils will draw against condi necro. However the strongest condi build for ranger is 02660 condition survival using SB or ST/AD, and a condimancer cannot apply conditions as fast, or as many stacks as fast, as the ranger can. In addition to this, said condi build is focused on surviving, so it is evasion heavy with 3-4 sources of active cleansing and often (not always) – empathic bond ontop of the active cleanses…. There is not many builds that can actually kill a survival ranger with conditions.

Thats what I run in spvp except hybrid with SotF and LR/Muddy Terrain/Entang for even more condition removal and still have had scarey moments where a necro reverse dumped everything in the book on me lol. Dont think they’ve won that way strictly 1-1 since also generally pressured by adds but I wouldnt be surprised.

necros can be nasty that way, however they got long cooldowns on most of their stuff, its just a matter of not nuking with all you got right off cooldown.

Prysin.8542:

Kilger.5490:

Prysin.8542:

just wanna note that trapper, using generosity sigils or purity sigils will draw against condi necro. However the strongest condi build for ranger is 02660 condition survival using SB or ST/AD, and a condimancer cannot apply conditions as fast, or as many stacks as fast, as the ranger can. In addition to this, said condi build is focused on surviving, so it is evasion heavy with 3-4 sources of active cleansing and often (not always) – empathic bond ontop of the active cleanses…. There is not many builds that can actually kill a survival ranger with conditions.

Thats what I run in spvp except hybrid with SotF and LR/Muddy Terrain/Entang for even more condition removal and still have had scarey moments where a necro reverse dumped everything in the book on me lol. Dont think they’ve won that way strictly 1-1 since also generally pressured by adds but I wouldnt be surprised.

necros can be nasty that way, however they got long cooldowns on most of their stuff, its just a matter of not nuking with all you got right off cooldown.

I cant stress how much this is true. After playing both classes since beta My favorite trick on EITHER has to go to the necro condi transfer. It is so rare for people to actually work to avoid this making killing with it so easy sometimes. IN TPvP Ill occasionaly come acrossa condi build thats aware of what dagger 4 does. But in TPvP i never try to condi trasnfer to my primary target >.< id rather send dagger 4 or staff 4 onto the guy halfway across the circle in foefire so I have a guaranteed condi cleanse instead of something thatl probably get blocked/dodged by the guy infront of me…Or send it at a ranger pet.

I love my 62006 Zealot ranger BM/Power build. But the sheer amount of free kills I get on my necro by condi players blowing all of there procs on me at once is glorious.

(Ill be honest I have a hard time seeing a ranger dealing reliable damage (I have no doubt they can do high damage without it. But getting the attacks to connect is another issue in TPvP Or WvW roaming) with a longbow outside of rare circumstances without read the wind. After playing ranger without that trait for the first 3/4s of the game there were so many times Id enter a fight knowing over half my arrows would accidentally miss just by people moving around normally in combat.)

Prysin.8542:

just wanna note that trapper, using generosity sigils or purity sigils will draw against condi necro. However the strongest condi build for ranger is 02660 condition survival using SB or ST/AD, and a condimancer cannot apply conditions as fast, or as many stacks as fast, as the ranger can. In addition to this, said condi build is focused on surviving, so it is evasion heavy with 3-4 sources of active cleansing and often (not always) – empathic bond ontop of the active cleanses…. There is not many builds that can actually kill a survival ranger with conditions.

True enough. Really I just wanted to get the point across that a half decent longbow Ranger is a very difficult fight for any Necromancer build. If the Ranger has enough skill to keep the Necromancer away from them it’s going to be almost impossible for the Necro to win.

I had this problem rather recently actually.. I haven’t come across many good Rangers in my time playing this game but there’s this one on Kodash that killed me every single time I crossed paths with him because he knew to, and knew how to, stay away from me. I tried to LOS him a few times and he’d always leave instead. I tried everything I could to gain the upper hand and out of I believe it was 5 times I fought him, only once did I nearly win. Which was when he fell for the Spectral Walk juke and I activated Spectral Recall, appeared behind his back and bursted him down to about 10% health. Unfortunately I was already low health myself, out of stunbreaks and low on Life Force so he won by Hilt Bash + Maul and AAing the rest of my health down. I hate the bugger because he always gets me but I admire that he’s not stupid.