Guild Wars 2

I love pugging around, running with different guild groups/havoc squads and even in large zergs, not that i don’t belong to a guild.

“Skills that buff allies in an AoE now prioritize party members.”

As a pug, who takes up the largest percentage of wvwers across all server, are currently dying more than they would have before this update. It gives everyone who are not in a party, or especially a party with no guardians a huge disadvantage.

And if you’re running with an another guild group not of your own, be ready to eat the CC train while waiting for your stability CD, because you won’t be getting any from anyone beside you. OR lets say you have party of casual friends who decides to run beside this guild and your friends in party does happens not to run a guardian, same thing.

Let me make a reminder, one of the most crucial and rare boons in WvW is “stability”, which guardians provide the best for the group. Without stability be ready to be CCed to death.

Even in organized groups, there are times where the ratio of guardians just don’t balance out, or you’re the odd one out, instead of providing stability in the region of urgent need, it now prioritizes your party member at the back, who’s taking his sweet time walking up after he pew pew pew things, while watching most of their melees trying to get past 1 line of warding.
Less need to say about a pug group. Lets just say we have a party of 5 guardian friends in the pug zerg, while the rest of the group gets CCed to death, they hog the unnecessary stacked duration of stability. Perma-stability – sounds awesome? not when your whole group cannot even get past one single line/ring of warding, or even the ele’s new additional CC. Of course, many classes have their own provided stability… and of course, most have insanely long CD.

Not just stability, even swiftness. Perma-swiftness is awesome, but what’s the need of maxed out duration of perma swiftness when most of your group is lagging behind, and having a 1 second buffer of perma swiftness is just as effective as a fully maxed duration perma swift. …

What i really wish anet would do is to revert this change, at least in WvW.

They did this change to allow you to actually support your party instead of the 5 nearest guys in your blob. Maybe you should invite your friends to your party and enjoy the perma swiftness, stability, regen, and other boons that your party can dish out.

Oh didn’t see that. That’s actually nice. When you want to rely on your party members they can now actually help you instead of hoping that their shout will affect you.
Just learn how to create parties instead of mindlessly hoping that one of the shouts will hit you.

well that’s your community problem maybe they should ask ppls to build up more guardians then?

sfr got no problem we got majority guardians warriors for our HAMMERSTUN! <3

“Does anyone have an open party I can join?”

Solved your problem.

gonna be easier to figure out the server good commanders and bad commanders if you don’t create parties and meet enemy zerg with organised parties your kinda dead

a lot dead weight pugs that just tag along is easier gonna get killed and leave the game this was a good idea from Anet. might even decrease the blobing a bit.

Blix.8021:

“Does anyone have an open party I can join?”

Solved your problem.

that’s the thing, if you just randomly invite people into your party, and there isn’t enough classes to share around and balance things out. When the people around you wants to cross 1 line of warding, what’s the point if your party member a bit further back who’s ranging gets the stability? or what’s the point of a party with ranger, mesmers, eles etc, who cannot really give up stability to other people.

Hmmmmm. Could this change have inadvertently hurt the zerg, on some small level?

ThunderPanda.1872:

Blix.8021:

“Does anyone have an open party I can join?”

Solved your problem.

that’s the thing, if you just randomly invite people into your party, and there isn’t enough classes to share around and balance things out. When the people around you wants to cross 1 line of warding, what’s the point if your party member a bit further back who’s ranging gets the stability?

I would be willing to bet that at least 1/4 of every zerg is a guardian and another 1/4 is a warrior. If you can’t get a warrior for swiftness and a guardian for stability into your party, then I really don’t think ANet is at fault here. Also shouts only have 600 range, so the situation you’re describing doesn’t really make any sense.

Does this mean that if you party with someone from the other side you can get their buffs?

Anyone test this out?

lol.

all you need to do is professional check up it takes 3 minutes.

warriors front guardians back eles left necros right.

make them stand in line and commanders create parties. done.

I do it every raid guild raid or pug raid its very powerful I can have ppls being called ‘’warding 1-3’’ static 1-3’’ hammerstun squad etc.

lol.

Wemil.7052:

lol.

all you need to do is professional check up it takes 3 minutes.

warriors front guardians back eles left necros right.

make them stand in line and commanders create parties. done.

I do it every raid guild raid or pug raid its very powerful I can have ppls being called ‘’warding 1-3’’ static 1-3’’ hammerstun squad etc.

lol.

right now, i’m emphasizing about casual playing. I do run in a organized guild groups (the guild i’m in), where the party interaction could be great. But my guild does not run 24/7 every single second i happen to play the game.

‘’casual playing’’

what is casual playing?

are you saying everytime you run with pugs you shouldn’t be in party you shouldn’t co ordinate the hammerstun?

you should just run at the enemy blob and press skill 1 and hope for the best?

SOME servers got the best zergs not because of numbers but because they co ordinate the hammerstuns the stability they co ordinate the regroup with teamspeak.

GUILDS can just do that much they play very organised but they cannot play 24/7 while there will always be pugs there. the stronger pugs the server got the stronger the server will be because guilds will not always have a raid and be there.

pugs often cannot wipe an organised guild but they can fight at off hours very well and recruiting more pugs and teach them just strength the server.

Casual gaming you can still listen to the commander and get in ts you can still join a good party you can still co ordinate the attacks with the commander you don’t just tag along.

Maybe if the commander tag down and jump with 30 guys and leave the other 40 guys all confused where did the others go? maybe when that happens for you will understand your not really welcome to join his raid

Wemil.7052:

‘’casual playing’’

what is casual playing?

are you saying everytime you run with pugs you shouldn’t be in party you shouldn’t co ordinate the hammerstun?

you should just run at the enemy blob and press skill 1 and hope for the best?

? did i say anything about coordinating hammer stun? since when did hammer stun become a boon?

Never but if you know about parties you wouldn’t have asked that question.

3 type of players.

guild player’ ‘fighting organised but enjoy doing so’’
casual playing: can still be a guild player but he plays half serious he still do what commander says
dead pug weight: just tagging along never following the commander first to die in combat.

Wemil.7052:

Never but if you know about parties you wouldn’t have asked that question.

you’re speaking in an extremely hypothetical situation where you assume you would pick up “the right classes” in your party. So if you don’t pick up a guardian, a warrior, etc, you don’t get these boons? If you’re a thief, or ranger, where noone wants you in the party, you don’t deserve to get these crucial boons when you most need it?
or should we treat this game as our second job, and we’re forced to roll classes that we don’t like to play with.

If you think of casual playing as “i’m just here i don’t want to be bothered” and you expect to have your group wipe more organized groups you’re in the wrong game. If you think of casual playing as grabbin 5 of your friends, one who’s a guardian, one who’s a warrior and three who are whatever then you’ll go far with the zerg or on your own.

When you as a Mesmer use Time Warp and you don’t get any quickness because someone else did, shows how important this is.

It should always be prioritizing :
Yourself > Your Group > Allied PC > Allied NPC…

Step up your game, group togheter.

On the other hand, having random pugs that are following an organised guild group soak up stability uses will wipe people in that guild. No matter what, someone is going to miss out. The difference now is that you can actually rely on your party, and know that you will be getting the buff, rather than sitting on your blob and hoping you’re one of the closest 5.

Good idea from anet here.

This change will benefit WvW overall.

It will greatly help those who run organized trains.
It will not help those who pug.

But we all know that organized players are better and contribute more than pugs, so the drawbacks are minimal.

I should also note that I don’t belong to any WvW guild but I always run with organized WvW guilds, following them on TS. What I do is simply invite other pugs.

I personally am all for it. No longer do I have to sprint next to a team member to cleanse conditions. No longer do I have to separate myself and group to stealth them. This now makes party groups a priority rather than. You have to sync your group before that battle and not pray to the kitten god that some random person next to you will give you stability / regen / prot. You talk about killing pugss. Personally when a pug zerg is running around it is very rare for them to have a full party of 5 people. So the boons will act like they previously did.

You talk about a guild group. When a guild group is tagged down and running around they usually are doing so to stay a guild group. You are more often to die with this group because you aren’t on there voice client. I’ve had people leave the commander to follow my 5 man roaming group because we were more well known than the commander at the time. No offense to any pugs but I personally do not want to lose and buffs because of a lvl 25 upscale knows who we are and wants to follow us around. The risks of running with an organized guild (that you are not a part of) is known because of this.

lioka qiao.8734:

If you think of casual playing as “i’m just here i don’t want to be bothered” and you expect to have your group wipe more organized groups you’re in the wrong game. If you think of casual playing as grabbin 5 of your friends, one who’s a guardian, one who’s a warrior and three who are whatever then you’ll go far with the zerg or on your own.

I don’t mind getting wiped as long as the combat was fun. I know the importance of these classes. But are you saying we have to treat the game seriously 24/7 and not try out the classes like ranger, thief, engineer, etc, who do not really contribute really significantly in the party nor the optimal class in wvw? Yes, everyone wants warrior, guardian in their party, and they’ll despise and discriminate the other classes, excluding them from the party, who’ll have no chance of ever surviving in the CC train.

This is a great change, and I disagree entirely with the OP of this thread.

Tellerion.8102:

This is a great change, and I disagree entirely with the OP of this thread.

and you convinced me the most out of everyone.

ThunderPanda.1872:

Tellerion.8102:

This is a great change, and I disagree entirely with the OP of this thread.

and you convinced me the most out of everyone.

I have changed my opinion just because of this post.

ThunderPanda.1872:

what’s the point of a party with ranger, mesmers, eles etc, who cannot really give up stability to other people.

I stopped reading the topi there.
As two out of the three classes you’re quoting can actually give great stab to their group…

This is just taking skilless play to a new level… oh god… to what extent do you think we should carebear not even casual play, but straight up lazyness?

The OP is making a valid point (though I don’t agree). In a way it is like the debate over Ascended gear.

Anet has alway viewed WvW as PvP for casuals, since way before launch. Not prioritizing buffs was a way of lessening the power of organizing groups in favour of PUGs.

However, as always, dedicated players found ways around this. (Mostly in this case by being rude to the PUGs until they left you alone).

I suppose Anet decided the Guild vs PUG conflict this created was worse than Guild-favouring design, and made the change.

lioka qiao.8734:

If you think of casual playing as “i’m just here i don’t want to be bothered” and you expect to have your group wipe more organized groups you’re in the wrong game. If you think of casual playing as grabbin 5 of your friends, one who’s a guardian, one who’s a warrior and three who are whatever then you’ll go far with the zerg or on your own.

+1 else join a serious guild if you want play seriously….

and this +1 too

Cameron.6450:

On the other hand, having random pugs that are following an organised guild group soak up stability uses will wipe people in that guild. No matter what, someone is going to miss out. The difference now is that you can actually rely on your party, and know that you will be getting the buff, rather than sitting on your blob and hoping you’re one of the closest 5.

Good idea from anet here.

do you think all people inside www score for server as casual ? -.-

Are you guys misreading? They said the people in your party are prioritized over others, they didn’t say other people couldn’t get the buff. Unless shouts have a 4 person limit all of a sudden.

For those reading deep into my comment here goes:

If you play any organized WvW you’ll come to realize the existence of the Big 5. Warrior, Guardian, Necromancer, Elementalist, Mesmer. Each one performs a game changing role in a large group format: Warriors are tanks and CC, Guardians are stability, buffs and movement control. Necromancers are boon control and AOE damage, Eles are condition control, movement control and combo field providers, and Mesmers are veil, portal, and boon/condition control with wall suppression.

The other classes are simply out performed by the Big 5. Rangers are out performed by eles and necros who don’t have to give up utility slots to be useful. Engineers simply can’t do damage on the level that eles, warriors and necros can. Thieves melt at the initial crash of a zerg and are really only good for blast finishers (which gives them a leg up as a potential 6th). I’ve been looking for niches for the other 3 to fill even. There simply isn’t anything for em that a Big 5er can do better.

What does that mean for this topic? Your party needs a reserved slot for a guardian or mesmer and a warrior or elementalist and is strongly advised to have a necro in it.

The funny thing is that the classes turn table when you get to the area of roaming and small group engagements. At that point rangers, thieves, and engineers out perform the others.

clint.5681:

Are you guys misreading? They said the people in your party are prioritized over others, they didn’t say other people couldn’t get the buff. Unless shouts have a 4 person limit all of a sudden.

Many of the AoE support skills have a limit of 5 targets.

Dunno about every shout thou, but this 1 at least have a 5 target limit :
“Retreat!” – Grant aegis and swiftness to up to five nearby allies.

ThunderPanda.1872:

Tellerion.8102:

This is a great change, and I disagree entirely with the OP of this thread.

and you convinced me the most out of everyone.

I didn’t expect it to be that easy to convince someone with such a deluded mindset, I’m glad I succeeded.

This is good for organized groups. Bad for unaffliliated players/less organized groups.

But I wonder what happens now when the unpartied/unbooned die more and thus rally the other team more. Then it becomes bad for the organized groups. Uh oh.

@OP

While you are right, I think you are missing one point when it comes to stability. In the past, guardians were the main providers of that. In the new release, engis and mesmers can also provide aoe stability.

LHound.8964:

clint.5681:

Are you guys misreading? They said the people in your party are prioritized over others, they didn’t say other people couldn’t get the buff. Unless shouts have a 4 person limit all of a sudden.

Many of the AoE support skills have a limit of 5 targets.

Dunno about every shout thou, but this 1 at least have a 5 target limit :
“Retreat!” – Grant aegis and swiftness to up to five nearby allies.

Huh well i cant say ive paid enough attention to how many others around me go the buff when i used the shouts.

So basically you’re upset over a much needed change because you can no longer leech boons off organized groups?

Is it really that difficult to find yourself a party when running around in WvW?

I was wondering if there was any point to actually grouping… well now there is.

The point of this thread seems to be “Stability is hard to get in pug groups due to the boon priority change.”

Even in a random group with no guardian, it should be possible to have at least one of: Elementalist, Engineer or Mesmer.

All three are capable of applying group stability with either a utility skill or trait (same as guardian, although engi and mesmer may have less uptime, haven’t checked yet). That will get you through that first push/line/wall/etc. It might not be ideal for each player’s style, but hey, I might not want to run stand your ground on my guardian….. Point is, the choices are there.

The game isn’t really meant to have easy high uptime on stability, since that would totally negate all the hard CC. I’m not saying the current implementation is balanced, but the party-boon-sharing change should negatively impact you unless you run an all thief/ranger group that likes to follow guild zergs.

I was kinda wondering, this thread is a bit ironic…

Pug = Pick Up Group = a group of randoms in a party

Solo guy following a zerg really isn’t a pug.

This is a great change.

Organized groups SHOULD get the boons first before the people just following. It should have ALWAYS been this way.

You can still pug or follow without a group, you do however need to be more self reliant. This change does not mean you will NEVER get the buff… only that the people actually working together get the first shot at receiving the buff.

The idea that you can be in a group, try to grant stability to your friends, and have that stability go to some guy not actually working together with the group so he can make the push and then die later on because he did not know the organized group was trying to do a feint and now because their key member of the tactic got stunned or immobilized that group tactic just flew out the window…

sorry pug… and I was and still do pug plenty… this is an absolute GREAT change.

lioka qiao.8734:

The funny thing is that the classes turn table when you get to the area of roaming and small group engagements. At that point rangers, thieves, and engineers out perform the others.

I’m not sure whether I like that. With WXP character-bound, I find that to be an annoyance, but I think it’s kinda cool that classes have different roles in the bigger picture.

Because of this, anet now needs to fix the ability to kick offline players in wvw.

Thrashbarg.9820:

Even in a random group with no guardian, it should be possible to have at least one of: Elementalist, Engineer or Mesmer.

All three are capable of applying group stability with either a utility skill or trait (same as guardian, although engi and mesmer may have less uptime, haven’t checked yet).

The only Ele trait/skill that I know of that grants group stability is Earth VIII, attuning to earth will grant a whopping 2 seconds of stability to your allies. Who runs around with at least 20 points in Earth?

Or am I missing something?

I find this update a very good thing since I prefer to party rather than run solo and i really love team play over solo play. The synergy and combination of interlaping traits, skills, etc. is just awesome.

This is a it should be versus randomly getting or not getting a boon from a zerg.

However, because of this the importance of partying is increased x100 versus having to just target a commander. Therefore the problem now is kicking offline party members versus remaking the party because it will take time to have to do it again and again and again.

Hot fix pls.

i think it’s a good thing.

and if you’re running in a zerg, you can always ask LFG. or i’ve been on more occasions that one, since i usually run solo more often than not, random person would invite me to party, and i join. yuo meet new friends, yuo sometimes meet old firneds you haven’t fought alongside in a while there’s nothing to lose.

Rosy.5194:

Thrashbarg.9820:

Even in a random group with no guardian, it should be possible to have at least one of: Elementalist, Engineer or Mesmer.

All three are capable of applying group stability with either a utility skill or trait (same as guardian, although engi and mesmer may have less uptime, haven’t checked yet).

The only Ele trait/skill that I know of that grants group stability is Earth VIII, attuning to earth will grant a whopping 2 seconds of stability to your allies. Who runs around with at least 20 points in Earth?

Or am I missing something?

20 Earth works fine in a support build. Try 0-0-20-20-30, with the standard boon rune set and you’ll get 3 sec of stability every 10 seconds, which is quite good stability uptime for any class.

Compare to “Stand Your Ground” fully traited with same runes, 8sec of stability every 24sec. That’s the same total uptime (approx 1/3rd). SYG also requires a utility slot.

3sec (or even 2sec) is enough stability to push through a hammer train in most cases.

I realize a lot of eles don’t run this trait, but honestly I don’t know why. Still playing cookie cutter builds from last year (whose main proponents have since changed classes anyway). I even use Rock Solid in a burst build, stability=guaranteed ether renewal (at least enough to get some heal and cond clear, might get ‘rupted right at the end, but oh well….) 0-30-20-15-5, so take what I say with a grain of salt, either I’m cutting edge or stupid, the latter is what most would say.

Excellent change, i run a healway Guardian whose job it is to support my group. Not the numpties tagging along that happen to be closest to my shout, who are probably not geared, not specced correctly, not in vent with me, not on our target, etc etc.

I am glad for this update to be honest. Nothing worse than using merciful intervention and having it go to some random dude and not the person in my party.