Guild Wars 2

The question is this: how long will it take to gain ranks. Char bound isn’t that bad if ranks don’t take insanely long, but if the ranks are anything like the WvW achievements, then char bound is basically punishing people for having alts.

I hear for the April patch you guys are going to limit the gamers to only one character slot?

Further proof that they have no idea about the mindset of the PvP player base that I know so well. Most of us play alts. We do it to flesh out the team. We don’t have one glorious main with special footprints and unicorn trails. We have a selection of fully geared toons to fit the situation (to the extent that we are still able to ‘fully gear’ them while falling further behind via calandar gating loot aquisition).

4 Maps that have not changed, most of the time opponents don’t change. Now we can’t play different charcters to mix it up or we fail to ‘progress’. Get ready to get bored. If this is the new system I’d rather just didn’t do anything at all. Most people I play with are barely hanging on. Stomp on their fingers again.

I’m working on my 7th level 80 character right now and about the only thing that I do is WvW. Having this character-based is going to be ugly. I like being able to play different toons at different times, but if this change is accepted to be character-based, I would have to choose one single character to play to make any advancement at all with the new ranks & abilities.

That doesn’t sound like any fun to me.

i enjoy switchin between my 8 classes during wvw……… but now…. i have to just play 1 ….wtf

covenn.7165:

There is absolutely nothing shortsighted about what I posted and my view point comes from over a decade of playing RvR oriented MMOs that had reward systems in place. I would rather reward someone for dedication in playing their chosen class(s) than reward someone who jumps to whatever the current FOTM class is after a patch. Do you have to agree with me? No, but going ad hom for no reason is silly.

There are other reasons for playing other classes then to play the next FOTM, though I agree for the vast majority of people that is the reason. We are a small guild, we mix and match who is playing what class based on who is online and we all have several lvl 80 geared out toons to play to fill the gaps. Has nothing to do with FOTM, rather group synergy.

We expect that the progression items will be uninspiring anyways, so we not worried about it, but still it would be better if it was account bound as at the end of the day, it is just a reflection of time spent, why should which toon matter?

It seems odd to me that Glory (sPvP ranks) is account bound, but World XP / WvW ranks are not?

Many suggestions have already been made to have the abilities (passive or otherwise) be character-bound, while the ranks and the World XP itself is account bound. Why do you not take that approach?

Time needed to get top level gear already punishes experimenting with builds and not to mention switching class, but apparently it´s not hard enough punishment and we need yet another thing that discourages trying to play multiple characters…great….

Surely ArenaNet will reconsider their position on this and make it all account based, just doesn’t make sense to do it any other way.

Commander tags being character based is bad enough, but this….

Very disappointing news, hope they change their minds and go with account bound.

so you can really play only one character…
are you kidding me?

covenn.7165:

I want it to be character bound to reward people that stick to their class instead of FotMing around to whatever the current OP class is.

There is nothing redeeming about sticking to one class, variety is the spice of life. As for the FoTM nonsense, I have a lvl 80 necro, mesmer, thief, engy and ele, guess which two classes I play the most – engy + necro.

But anyway back to the thread, yet another example of game design in total opposition to how they promoted the game, “play your own way”, yeah right.

I’m hoping it’s as someone suggested earlier, that the ranks would be relatively easy to obtain… but even then, I would still prefer account bound.

Covenn, having the titles account bound would satisfy both crowds, those who stick to one character and those who like their alts.

Also, we are given a very short dev answer with little information, and now people are going crazy. If you are going to post, it would be nice to understand why it’s being implemented (as opposed to forcing people to have to play more if they want titles).

These updates are getting worse all the time.

Anet has altered the manifesto, pray they don’t alter it any further.

At least it’ll make WvW less stale than it is currently. Albeit less alt friendly.

I personally feel that nothing should be soulbound, but that is tied to the way I play the game. I don’t think of my alts as separate entities. They are all me…

I have the underlying feeling that the only way they can justify progression not being retroactive is to make this character bound. All stats to this point are tracked per account. If they made this progression account bound, they would be forced to include all of the account bound stats that WvW players have accumulated thus far. ANet is entirely committed to balancing things for PvE players so they can’t possibly give us credit for the things we’ve already done. Making this progression system character bound is the only way for them to say “there is no way with the system for us to calculate retroactive achievements” since everything is account bound currently.

Basically, these titles and abilities need to be a grind to actually mean something and not be a dime a dozen. Since these titles and abilities need to be a grind to be meaningful, they need to be account bound or players who have alts will be restricted to having no progression to enjoy their characters or play one main in order to have progression.

The one single compromise I can think of here is to make titles account bound and abilities based on each character’s time spent in WvW.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t DAoC do something similar to this where it was based on character and not account?

Esoteric.5490:

The one single compromise I can think of here is to make titles account bound and abilities based on each character’s time spent in WvW.

Isn’t that what it is now?

Titles are already account bound, the skills will be based on how much time a specific character spends in WvW.

Per example, they could be doing this in the vein of GW1 PvE skills: easy as butter to unlock, commitment requiring to actually make worthwhile.

I’m so excited. I can’t wait to carry more supply and do more damage with siege-weapons.
Just imagine how strong you will feel if you can carry 5 more supply, such a fun ability.

Rank, World XP and currency should all be account bound, the abilities should be character bound. Problem solved.

Pixelninja.6971:

I’m so excited. I can’t wait to carry more supply and do more damage with siege-weapons.
Just imagine how strong you will feel if you can carry 5 more supply, such a fun ability.

You don’t realize how important carrying 20 supply instead of 15 is into a reset night?

Vena.8436:

Esoteric.5490:

The one single compromise I can think of here is to make titles account bound and abilities based on each character’s time spent in WvW.

Isn’t that what it is now?

Titles are already account bound, the skills will be based on how much time a specific character spends in WvW.

Per example, they could be doing this in the vein of GW1 PvE skills: easy as butter to unlock, commitment requiring to actually make worthwhile.

As of right now, everything in WvW is account bound. What I am proposing is the “passive abilities” are unlocked based on the World XP you have per character. Titles should be account bound, even in the new system. This gives you more attainable account progression while it gives you meaningful character progression that still nets you ranks. This way, it isn’t discriminatory where each alt is its own entity. If every single alt has to start from square one, people won’t be able to play them if they want any sort of progression. The only way it won’t be awful in its planned state is if the titles are entirely too easy to get, and then it’s just about who can grind them faster and be max rank, which would still be terrible.

Would infinitely prefer that progression be ACCOUNT bound, being character bound is extremely limiting and penalizes players with alts.

DO NOT LIKE.

If you feel the same way, please speak up.

Esoteric.5490:

As of right now, everything in WvW is account bound. What I am proposing is the “passive abilities” are unlocked based on the World XP you have per character. Titles should be account bound, even in the new system. This gives you more attainable account progression while it gives you meaningful character progression that still nets you ranks. This way, it isn’t discriminatory where each alt is its own entity. If every single alt has to start from square one, people won’t be able to play them if they want any sort of progression. The only way it won’t be awful in its planned state is if the titles are entirely too easy to get, and then it’s just about who can grind them faster and be max rank, which would still be terrible.

I made a slight mistake in that I confused what titles you’re speaking of, the titles from achievements are very much are and very much will remain account bound (and this is to what I mistakenly thought you were referring).

What is coming in the update is not a “title” as the game defines it, but a ranking as seen by opponents (as far as I’m aware, do allies even have a way of seeing your “rank”) which, in turn, is coupled to passives. This is an information scheme that let’s your opponent know that (a.) you’re not Random Invader #1128739348949, (b.) that you’re a high priority target (like the commander icon), and, to wit, (c.) it follows that these be character bound mutually. This whole scheme is thrown to the curb if abilities are character bound but the “title” isn’t as it throws off any sense of information from name (in this case plate) recognition, or vise versa. Seeing “Blackgate Conqueror of Worlds” with an upscaling arrow is going to be quite jarring… and confusing: does he have the buffs or not? Do we kill him or not? When you see a commander icon you know full well what it means just as you know what any boon or condition means, the “rank”, unsurprisingly, seems to function in the same light.

So we cannot have one or the other, its one of either boths: character bound mutually, or account bound mutually. We already have account bound progression (when it comes down to the nitty gritty details) but WvW lacks in any aspect of character progression <- something which PvE has, and PvP has (in a way) based on statistical breakdowns of what you play and win/loss ratios.

PS: As I said, I see this as how they handled GW1 PvE skills, and if the account vs. character bound scaling is of any reference as to what to expect here… pray to the lord that we won’t need to farm out 10 million Kurzick/Luxon faction points rather than the much easier alternative of Lightbringer/Sunspear/Ebon/Asura/Norn/Dwarf.

They have a very small live team. They are putting a large amount of their employees on making expansion content. To try and make it seem like they are giving us more stuff and to make our attention occupied longer they are using these time sinks and pseudo content to keep us in the game.

A very weak ‘Living Story’, character-bound fractal levels, the commander title, and the time-gated ascended gear acquisition through laurels and commendations (all character bound) are shining examples of this.

It’s becoming a very disenchanting experience with the company from how I felt pre-launch, to say the least.

Sounds cool to me. But then, I really only play one character.
Looking forward to face-blocking catapult shots XD

I can see the pro’s and cons to both ways..

You’re not limited to one character despite the whining, I had multiple high rank characters in DAOC for example..

However I can understand some people being annoyed by it being character based, Because some people don’t like playing the same character for long periods of time…Me personally i probably wouldn’t start another character until my Thief and Ranger were higher rank.

I think if they were smart about it (want to make more money) they would make progression acct bound. More alts would mean more gems purchased to fund gear, levels and legendary materials.

Cmon ArenaNet, come to the party. You really need to get this right if you want us hard core WvW players to stay. There are some very interesting titles coming up that are going to smash GW2 if you don’t think carefully about your design decisions.

I don’t understand ArenaNet any more (or did I ever understand them?). In GW1 we had Luxon/Kurzick skills and they were immense grinds, but they were also account bound. You didn’t have to pick one and choose to play it in WvW. I will now be less useful than my allies who play multiple characters in WvW (and the WvW progression won’t fairly reward me for the time I spend in WvW) all because I like to play a variety of classes in WvW. Now I will either be forced to play a main if I ever want to WvW or I have to opt out on enjoying the progression I’ve earned because I’m curse myself by enjoying multiple classes.

WvW progression being character bound is actually going to be a burden and take away from my game experience because of this.

Habib Loew.6239:

WvW ranks & abilities are character based. The best way to think of this system is as alternative/extended character progression.

So the entire game, including guild membership, is account bound, but this new system requires us to repeat our work again and again for each alt. What are you people thinking?

Habib Loew.6239:

WvW ranks & abilities are character based. The best way to think of this system is as alternative/extended character progression.

This seems short sighted given previous games experience with similar issues. You force players into only using minimal characters which then leads to the game becoming stale for them far sooner.

In my opinion, progression is the crutch that game devs fall back on when they aren’t clever enough or motivated enough to make the actual game and its mechanics adequately enjoyable for the long run. Nobody needs “progression” (better stuff, new stuff, etc) to play basketball, chess, or poker. Those games are well designed with enduring appeal (depth, variety, uncertainty, etc) such that they are fun to play without gimmicks. WvW in GW2 could be the same thing if it had more depth and better balance, but instead of heading in that direction we’re going to get “stuff” to keep us distracted.

Noooooo … I just completed my second char after some intense month with my main I was so happy to try some new play style. But this looks like it means I have to play my main again most of the time. If it just would give me some reward for what I have already done. Please introduce some liquid world xp jugs :/ I’m curious how long it take to maximize this new stuff for a char? Please give us some hard facts soon :-)

cubed.2853:

Please give us some hard facts soon :-)

lol. Don’t hold your breath.

I’m really quite disappointed too.
I am an altoholic and I love to play all my characters in WvW. So far I have 13 characters in all – 7 of them are lvl 80 and “WvW ready”. I often switch depending on situation, mood etc. And now this character based progression (which I assume will not be as easy as to level to lvl 80) will force me to pick one WvW character?!?!
Everything else (titles, achievements) are account bound.
Why did you decide for this very important feature, that it should only be for one character? I really don’t understand your decision.
Please have a look into it and reconsider. As you can see in the reactions many people feel the way I do.

So because I have three exotic geared characters I play in wvw, I now have to pick one?
I like that I can currently fill a variety of roles depending on what my group is lacking.
I already have to pay more to gear up all my toons than people that only play one!
Just make the passives 80 only or something, this stinks of develops not thinking the effects through.
Yes I am kitten off that the game is forcing me to not play multiple characters or to fall behind

I dont think its a big deal, probably wont take all that long to unlock the most vital abilities onto seperate chars anyway.

I have 8 mains. This screws me so hard. I am going to have to employ a sweat shop to keep my characters in tha loop.

Lifewaster.5912:

I dont think its a big deal, probably wont take all that long to unlock the most vital abilities onto seperate chars anyway.

Sorry, but what? It’s a WvW progress system meant to keep (among others) all the very active WvW’ers happy and the abilities are something they’ll continue to build on in the future. How can you possibly think that it won’t take very long to unlock on separate characters?

Not to mention that Titles will most likely go very far and even they are character bound right now.

this is really disappointing news for a community of wvw-ers that are already bored with your stale end game.

Rising Dusk.2408:

You need to be able to make progress by helping the team, not just killing/capping.
People who scout are important, and so are people who refresh siege, or who upgrade bases, or who escort dolyaks. These roles are critical to WvW, and with progression being added, these roles must be rewarded with progression experience. If not, then people will forgo these critical roles in favor of things that earn them progression, and we will lose out on important parts of our strategy and the game will devolve further into zerg-smash-wall mentality.

If these three factors are appropriately handled in the March release, then I am confident that this release will be a good one. If not, then this will probably be one of the worst things to happen to WvW ever. Please, ANet, I don’t mind character-based progression so long as you get it right.

This is something that right now is already a detriment to the potential richness of WvW. Right now the best way, by far, to get karma, kills, loot, battle and die less is to run with a Zerg. If it becomes the best way to get the new WvW progression, you’ll see maps that are just tower flip-fests with hardly ever a defense.

WvW ranks & abilities are character based. The best way to think of this system is as completely ruining character progression. There, I fixed it for you.

RANK and abilities character bound….It’s quite obvious no one on the dev team has a clue about pvp players as that is EXACTLY what the players didn’t want.

Abilities should be character bound- I have no problem with that if they are class specific. If they are generic skills like ‘carry 5 more supplies’ then they should be account bound. But rank should be account bound- making it character bound is just plain and simply utterly short sighted.

The untradeable grindfest items were bad enough, then we got untradeable laurels which only count one per account and now this..

I have ten level 80 toons. Does ANet really think restricting players to playing one class all the time in order to obtain rank and abilities make playing the game more fun?

I can see wvw getting to the point where two servers agree to just flip entire maps, taking turns, if it makes progress on ranks- two major guilds can easily achieve this.

Sad.

Character based alternate progression paths have never worked in any other MMORPG and it won’t work in GW2.

Just do yourselves a favor and make it account based now, it will save you time 1 year from now when you realize what a terrible idea it was to make it character bound, and you end up having to convert all progression to the new account based system which will be a lot of hassle for you.

Depending on how the whole progression system is set up …
Problematic again we have too less information on the goals/mechanics of this new system.

Imagine your WvW rank would push xp which your are worth to an enemy…?
Char-bound, cuz u dont want to be hunted down on your lowies

Imagine you have to decide similiar to traits which WvW skills you want to use and pay for reskilling…?
Char bound, cuz u might want to fullfill different “roles” with different chars

“lifetime” WvW achievements/titles…?
Account-bound, char-based grinds only reduce possibilities on twinking/experimenting..and this reduces fun over longer periods…Still, lifetime progression is needed to keep veterans hooked.

..and thats (in a nutshell) the core elements which “make OR break it”… depending on how much time is needed grinding for these new skills/ranks…AND how much diversity has to stay behind in order to be able to “keep up”
——————————————————-
Sidenote: Same with Ascended Gear VS Exotics….
I dont even have started to experiment & craft my “full wishlist of ADDITIONAL/SPARE” exotic sets…
…and we already have Ascended Gear for 8 slots only 6 months after release…

…6-12 further months ahead I will leave the game, because AG gear WILL determine the WvW meta…and NO TIME to invest into something grindy like Ascended Gear…
I WOULD HAVE TO FOCUS on ONE Ascended jewelery… (… more boring)

AND WOULD HAVE TO FOCUS on ONE CHARs WvW progression, too…
(?!… even less horizontal progression remaining = even more boring)

Just because you have formatting options doesn’t mean you have to use them all the time.

It’s quite overwhelming how high the support for World XP and Titles / Ranks being account bound while keeping the abilities themselves character bound is at the moment. Hopefully ArenaNet will consider it.

Don’t despair, they already have a solution for the grind: World Xp-booster. Brilliant.

Account
Bound
Please

I am still waiting for Siege weapons and Karma to be account bound, some things in the game are total nonsense. You can´t switch Siege Weapons across your alts but you can give them to anyone (including opposite server, by dropping them!). Karma is soulbound but yet the Karma from Orr jewelery boxes and Obsidian Shards you buy are account bound, aswell as gifts for legendary!? I can´t salvage Karma gear to remove an expensive rune i put on it !?

Seems many things in this game haven´t any solid reason to be the way they are, they just are.

Would be a good time to stop all the Character Bound/Account Bound war and make EVERYTHING Account Bound!

The less they hear the community, and the more they roll out these stupid updates, the less I feel like supporting the game. There.

Oh wow, that is very disappointing, I have 4 lvl80 characters and switch between them all the time, just like the FotM levels, it’s very frustrating to do the same content on alts all over again. Especially in a PvP setting like WvW, it makes absolutely no sense.

Please stop using the “extended character progression” excuse, you did the same with accountbound dyes, while the obvious reason was the gem store.

I don’t think our compaints are gonna help though, they’ll probably stop replying to this thread and implement it anyway.

For those who think character bound is ok because it may be just a little grind to get there:

We do a little grind to get our alts to 80.
We do a little grind to gear our alts with exotics, and a little grind to get the looks we want.
We do a little grind to get our ascended rings,
a little grind to get the accessories,
and wait a month to get amulet.
Now we´re talking about little grind to get the rank and skills up.
What will be the next little grind we´ll be doing?

All those little grinds suddenly add up to a one kittening big grind….