Guild Wars 2

IMO it would be funner if the buff was localized to the player/battles than to the map. Imagine if one player could jump into an enemy zerg and be upscaled to champ level stats lol

EchenSketch.9142:

You cannot punish a server for having a higher population than another. Even a simple speed boost does that. The outnumbered buff is not the issue. Making WvW not a numbers game is the issue.

That’s a pretty backwards comment to make. The point isn’t to let one server steamroll over another, but rather that BOTH sides have a fun time. Letting one server LOLfaceroll doesn’t make it fun for anyone (well, maybe a short while for the winning server, but once you own all the towers and the zone is a ghost town, then what?). Giving the outnumbered server a buff that matters, lasts, and encourages people to serve in the defense of their “homeland” will only make it more fun for everyone.

Any PvP that involves dynamic team sizing is always going to be a numbers game, it’s written into the definition itself. The outnumbered buff isn’t intended to completely override that, but to give the losing server a chance at getting to an equal footing. Announcing to the whole server that it is active, and will last a significant time, will encourage players to show up.

And how, exactly do you make WvW not a numbers game? Make the population limits so low that even a disinterested server can field a team? Cut the field of battle up into zones and limit the density of players per zone? Require that the number of players be balanced within 10% and force waiting queues on the larger server until the lower pop server fills up? All of those options seem rather distasteful, and would only discourage players on the larger server, which is definitely not the way to go – we want more WvW players overall, not less.

I have had this buff plenty of times where we were still able to take towers/keeps. A Majority of the time you are outnumbered, it means the two enemy zergs are fighting each other while leaving you alone. So while they blob each other down, your small team is free to go ninja stuffs, resulting in alot more WEXP. If you get wiped, oh well because no armor damage. Sure sometimes it means a enemy will focus you and theres no chance but its not ALWAYS.

DevonCarver.5370:

insanemaniac.2456:

why we wont see a useful outnumbered buff:

scenario — player enters map where his server has outnumbered. server loses outnumbered. other players harass him to leave so server can be stronger.

Correct. The idea behind the buff is to incentivize you to show up even if you are outnumbered by pulling out some of the disincentive for losing a lot, but if we put anything too good on it, it will cause serious problems between players. We don’t want it to be something that people fight over, harass each other over, or generally cause a worse play experience because someone takes away the buff because it is our goal for the maps to be full and for no one to have the buff.

You mean, people harrasing other players for dying, because the other server has a buff that gives them points for that players death?

It’s cool guys, we’ll just use our skill to defeat <insert T1 server> who has Bloodlust and coverage. Devon thinks it’s possible. Plus we get magic find to help us, win/win yea?

when ppl see outnumbered buff they know they will get facerolled and leave…

DevonCarver.5370:

insanemaniac.2456:

why we wont see a useful outnumbered buff:

scenario — player enters map where his server has outnumbered. server loses outnumbered. other players harass him to leave so server can be stronger.

Correct. The idea behind the buff is to incentivize you to show up even if you are outnumbered by pulling out some of the disincentive for losing a lot, but if we put anything too good on it, it will cause serious problems between players. We don’t want it to be something that people fight over, harass each other over, or generally cause a worse play experience because someone takes away the buff because it is our goal for the maps to be full and for no one to have the buff.

Devon, here’s a simple truth for you.

Getting steamrolled 50 VS 10 with absolutely zero chance of being able to do anything at all is infinitely worse, for the play experience of EVERY WVW PLAYER on a server, that whatever grief might happen TO A FEW PLAYERS in your scenario.

You don’t even have to believe me. Just login and play on any server which is getting heavily outnumbered on any map. In fact, the current standard behavior for weaker servers is to simply concentrate forces on 1-2 maps to at least have a chance of being able to actually play the game, leaving the other maps completely deserted. Which, btw, will make your new orb implementation every bit as devastating to the weaker side as the old orbs were.

Niim.9260:

Second, Warhammer had a desired out numbered buff, you just switched maps when you lost it on one map and found a fight elsewhere, you didn’t start frothing at the mouth and yelling at someone for entering the zone.

Irony is that Warhammer’s outnumbered buff was +xp, gold and renown (aka wxp). Not even close to what people are suggesting.

DevonCarver.5370:

insanemaniac.2456:

why we wont see a useful outnumbered buff:

scenario — player enters map where his server has outnumbered. server loses outnumbered. other players harass him to leave so server can be stronger.

Correct. The idea behind the buff is to incentivize you to show up even if you are outnumbered by pulling out some of the disincentive for losing a lot, but if we put anything too good on it, it will cause serious problems between players. We don’t want it to be something that people fight over, harass each other over, or generally cause a worse play experience because someone takes away the buff because it is our goal for the maps to be full and for no one to have the buff.

Go look at the tenacity buff from Wintergrasp. Outnumbered stat buff that lets your faction compete, but not a replacement for people. It keeps you in the game long enough so that people can show up. The key is balance. Make it enough that no one wants to have the outnumbered buff, more than having more people but that if you have it at least you can fight back.

Meanwhile you are giving a stat buff to the winning team!!!

Most of you didn’t know this but Anet don’t give a kitten about WvW. All of the class balances are done based on sPvP because they want to make it an eSport so bad. Why you ask? Mainly because WvW will cost them money but making sPvP as an eSport will get them sponsorship=more money.

DevonCarver.5370:

Correct. The idea behind the buff is to incentivize you to show up even if you are outnumbered by pulling out some of the disincentive for losing a lot

And now with the orb buff, not only the player will lose a lot, they won’t be able to put up a match at all. Have fun being outmanned while fighting a 100 man server with +150 stats. Devon is just pure kitten, all his word doesn’t mean kitten. He’s just a puppet that is trying to calm us down by giving us more promises and lies.

tl;dr
Don’t bother asking for rework on WvW, nothing will changes as Anet don’t give a kitten. For trait/skill etc, make a thread on sPvP, but make sure give example related to sPvP, not WvW, because for Anet WvW is just a place where organized guild stay in towers and spam sieges with one hand while jerking off with the other hand. Yes, that’s right, they think organized guild in WvW a kittening joke! You hear me? A kittenING JOKE!

On one hand incentivizing people to show up while outmanned by giving them fairly small boosts.

And on the other hand decentivizing people to show up outmanned because the other server(s) are super-charged.

Really didnt think this one through.

insanemaniac.2456:

DevonCarver.5370:

insanemaniac.2456:

why we wont see a useful outnumbered buff:

scenario — player enters map where his server has outnumbered. server loses outnumbered. other players harass him to leave so server can be stronger.

Correct. The idea behind the buff is to incentivize you to show up even if you are outnumbered by pulling out some of the disincentive for losing a lot, but if we put anything too good on it, it will cause serious problems between players. We don’t want it to be something that people fight over, harass each other over, or generally cause a worse play experience because someone takes away the buff because it is our goal for the maps to be full and for no one to have the buff.

in the bottom of the ratings, it is typical for all 3 servers to have outnumbered on (at least) 2 of the 4 maps at all times. the looming threat of season 1 and the “omg pick your server!” mentality/hype has done and will do nothing to change this. if it is your goal to fill our maps, you need to step in and provide different incentives to encourage players not to just stack certain servers as has happened for the last year and will continue to happen through season 1.

as for outnumbered, i dont like it. it feels bad. but i understand it. and i think you could probably do better, but i think its a low priority compared to other things like ridiculous population imbalances, glitches, sabotage, and defense rewards vs attack rewards.

This guy has a strong point. I’m currently on Devona’s Rest 24th place on the WvW leader boards, and it appears to me that a majority of people only help out in WvW during the occasional, “guild zerg rush day”, where everyone just pitches in for the xp and loot for attacking, then leaves because you earn all most nothing for defending. How you obtain siege and upgrades should be changed since 8th tier servers in WvW barely have enough people to fill up their own Borderlands. And with the upcoming, “tourney”, I see Devona’s Rest WvW super tiny community being demolished to the point where there is no reason to help out extremely overwhelming odds. This is more of a last shout out for the current active WvW community of Devona’s Rest (Which is like 15-30 people across all maps) before we get demolished.

DevonCarver.5370:

insanemaniac.2456:

why we wont see a useful outnumbered buff:

scenario — player enters map where his server has outnumbered. server loses outnumbered. other players harass him to leave so server can be stronger.

Correct. The idea behind the buff is to incentivize you to show up even if you are outnumbered by pulling out some of the disincentive for losing a lot, but if we put anything too good on it, it will cause serious problems between players. We don’t want it to be something that people fight over, harass each other over, or generally cause a worse play experience because someone takes away the buff because it is our goal for the maps to be full and for no one to have the buff.

What about reversing the role? the ones that have the greater numbers get a de-buff?
Then they cant harass anyone for coming “onto” the map but instead maybe forced to break up the zerg a bit to equally share numbers across other maps, whilst giving the lower population server a fairer fight.

Well the way things are now, a lot of people aren’t bothering with WvW anymore. We log in, see outmanned + 3 bloodlust buffs on the server who’s already 100k or more points ahead of us, we just log out. It’s like, why bother? The server that outmans everyone should be penalized. Give them a debuff that makes it take more supplies to build stuff, make upgrades take longer. Make it so that if you outnumber the other 2 servers you can’t claim the bloodlust buff.

DevonCarver.5370:

insanemaniac.2456:

why we wont see a useful outnumbered buff:

scenario — player enters map where his server has outnumbered. server loses outnumbered. other players harass him to leave so server can be stronger.

Correct. The idea behind the buff is to incentivize you to show up even if you are outnumbered by pulling out some of the disincentive for losing a lot, but if we put anything too good on it, it will cause serious problems between players. We don’t want it to be something that people fight over, harass each other over, or generally cause a worse play experience because someone takes away the buff because it is our goal for the maps to be full and for no one to have the buff.

I cannot fathom this, as there is no way we can tell who is joining for the 1st time or who is simply releasing from a recent death on a bl wp. Although we get all types of players, most are at least intelligent to understand not to automatically jump to a conclusion based on something that they have to utilize themselves for release. I know there are some that do, but again they are the types that will harass other players regardless.

DevonCarver.5370:

insanemaniac.2456:

why we wont see a useful outnumbered buff:

scenario — player enters map where his server has outnumbered. server loses outnumbered. other players harass him to leave so server can be stronger.

Correct. The idea behind the buff is to incentivize you to show up even if you are outnumbered by pulling out some of the disincentive for losing a lot, but if we put anything too good on it, it will cause serious problems between players. We don’t want it to be something that people fight over, harass each other over, or generally cause a worse play experience because someone takes away the buff because it is our goal for the maps to be full and for no one to have the buff.

Juxtapose this extreme caution over buffing players who are outmanned with the reckless way you buff players who already have a significant advantage. Remarkable.

FREE BUFFS! COME AND GET YOUR FREE BUFFS!
just remove bloodlust, guard leech, applied fortitude, and keep outmanned the same.
if the devs want to add “buffs” for the team that takes the time to do random kitten, add wxp bonus to everything. and not some kittenfoot 10% add like a 50% or higher, make players want that kitten

Gyuforce.8291:

FREE BUFFS! COME AND GET YOUR FREE BUFFS!
just remove bloodlust, guard leech, applied fortitude, and keep outmanned the same.
if the devs want to add “buffs” for the team that takes the time to do random kitten, add wxp bonus to everything. and not some kittenfoot 10% add like a 50% or higher, make players want that kitten

While I do not agree with removing guard leech and applied fortitude (in no way “free buffs”), I would agree that ANY bloodlust bonus should be WXP bonus-based, and not stat-based. It doesn’t make sense.

If you have a huge-as-kitten zerg and can steam roll a smaller server, then sure, enjoy getting mass WXP. The smaller zerg still has a chance to take over with enough effort. Adding stats makes that impossible.