Guild Wars 2

Please fix this nonsense. There’s no reason the home team should be able to use unreachable trebs to hit the outer walls of the central keep.

Granted these trebs technically can be taken out if you take one of the two towers to the north and build siege from there. But that’s not good enough.

coming from their citadel. there was 2 more trebs put up shortly after just to the right, also in their citadel

well, there is actualy a way to get up to the spawn point and kill all the “unrecheable” siege engines..
but you cant atack anyone becouse they are all invulnerable..
so im not sure if its considered an exploit..

im confused..
seting up siege on invulnerable terrain is an exploit?
doing some crazy jumping to get to those siege engines is considered an exploit?

example picture of the siege engine setup on invulnerable terrain

The worst offenders are Crystal Desert. But those nubs need all of the help they can get.

Tuks.7532:

well, there is actualy a way to get up to the spawn point and kill all the “unrecheable” siege engines..
but you cant atack anyone becouse they are all invulnerable..
so im not sure if its considered an exploit..

im confused..
seting up siege on invulnerable terrain is an exploit?
doing some crazy jumping to get to those siege engines is considered an exploit?

Yeah I know about that trick. That is an exploit because it takes advantage of a glitch. The unreachable trebs are more of a design flaw IMO. Thus, they aren’t exactly an exploit in the strictest sense. But I don’t think Arenanet considered the overwhelming advantage it gives to the home team. I mean, seriously. It’s incredibly stupid.

Umm if the defenders have to use unreachable trebs in their home base, it seems they already are loosing hard, and got pushed back to the wall, so they should be able to do that.

-.- just built your own treb somewhere that can hit to those base trebs..destroy em..no problems left..

zerospin.8604:

Umm if the defenders have to use unreachable trebs in their home base, it seems they already are loosing hard, and got pushed back to the wall, so they should be able to do that.

That’s absurd. What you’re basically saying is that if any team other than the home team takes the keep closest to their citadel, the home team should be able to build unreachable trebs to keep the walls in a constant downed-state. Let the home team use one of their two towers for that purpose.

i atached a picture showing..
you cant hit them with anything since they are elevated and terrain covers them
all you hit is the wall in the BEST, dont no dmg.. also, they hit you and push you away from your siege.. if they setup their siege somewere the atacker can hit, they are still invulnerable so well, they just laugh at you..

If this is intended why not give the defenders permanente ownership of those towers?
keep in mind that they can use those trebs/cats or whatever to defend also..
so if you get close, a rain of catapult/treb fireballs will fill the sky!

trust me, is not that funny when you see 7 trebs built and 2 under construction..
I dont even think they had enoug people to man those trebs at the time i took the screenshot.. there was another 5 below me, but the sight was’nt that clear as those 2 and the cata.

Quentin Fields.1295:

-.- just built your own treb somewhere that can hit to those base trebs..destroy em..no problems left..

Let’s consider that option for a moment. In order to build trebs that can reach the unreachable trebs, you have one of two options:

1. Take and hold one of the two northern towers (depending on where the trebs are) and build trebs in there. But this is absurd because it means that the only way for a team that isn’t the home team to ensure that the home team can’t constantly down the keep walls is to hold both towers. In other words, it is pointless to hold the central keep unless you hold and maintain both towers.

2. Build trebs in undefendable/unfortified positions that you’ll have to abandon once the treb that is otherwise unreachable is destroyed. But this is not sustainable because you’ll basically be trading one of your trebs for one of theirs. They can always build a brand new treb in that fortified position and you’ll once again have to fork over 27s for a treb you’ll have to abandon.

Wow thank you for the awesome idea. I will be using this tonight for sure when my server gets pwned as usual…

this “bug” or whatever… is good for low popularity server… some server wichout this will be almost impossible to retake for example Garrison… now dzagonur+ruins of surmia+fissue of woe… dzagonur got everything… got buff from 3 orb… and wichout this “bug” will be impossible to low popularity pvp serw do anything… sometime it;s the only way to do somthing stronger server…
sure… AN will repair this “bug” but need repair to buff from orb… now ruins of surmia and FoW cannot do nothing becaus they got bonus to magic find loot… yea it’s superb buff for outnumbered…

Last I heard, this was considered an exploit because all “invulnerable” areas are supposed to have the 4-day siege blocker active on them as well.

As for this being the only way for defenders to take back the Garrison…. no, just no. I’ve taken back the Garrison and the two North towers multiple times on an underdog server without resorting to this cheap tactic. People who abuse exploits with the excuse that it’s the only way they can win are worse than the ones who do it just to be kitten-holes.

so what you guys think about jumping up there and kill the siege on invulnerable terrain?
exploit or not?

Yes, using an exploit to counter another exploit is still an exploit.

Revenant.2691:

Yes, using an exploit to counter another exploit is still an exploit.

agreed. Arenanet should just fix this kitten.

You guys do realize there is a spot to put a treb to take down that treb right? Simple really.. it’s between the west tower and the garrison. Sure you would have to defend your treb but obviously you won’t have much of a problem if they’re not able to attack your keep head on. It’s in enough range to hit those trebs easily. It can and has been done.

Oh.. another way to stop this from happening? take the garrison. If you can’t do this then you simply lack the organization or numbers. I understand a garrison is quite difficult to take but it IS possible.
If Anet considers this an exploit then by all means say I’m wrong however I have my doubts that it’s an exploit.

Osiath.4823:

You guys do realize there is a spot to put a treb to take down that treb right? Simple really.. it’s between the west tower and the garrison. Sure you would have to defend your treb but obviously you won’t have much of a problem if they’re not able to attack your keep head on. It’s in enough range to hit those trebs easily. It can and has been done.

I’ve already destroyed this point. The fact is that the non-home team would have to invest more resources to defend a treb outside of a fort/keep. It doesn’t take much for a medium-sized group to suicide-rush siege that isn’t protected by a wall. Every time the home team decides to make cliff treb, the non-home team attempting to defend the garrison will have to make a practically undefendable treb to match them. That is patently stupid.

Oh.. another way to stop this from happening? take the garrison. If you can’t do this then you simply lack the organization or numbers. I understand a garrison is quite difficult to take but it IS possible.

Are you dense? This is only a problem if you have the garrison. Having the garrison doesn’t resolve this. Those unreachable trebs are able to hit the garrison outer wall. That was basically the whole point of this thread. The northern keep (garrison) is much harder for non-home teams to defend because the home team can treb the outer walls with unreachable trebs.

If Anet considers this an exploit then by all means say I’m wrong however I have my doubts that it’s an exploit.

I think it’s more likely a design flaw than an exploit.

zerospin.8604:

Umm if the defenders have to use unreachable trebs in their home base, it seems they already are loosing hard, and got pushed back to the wall, so they should be able to do that.

Agreed. It should be incredibly difficult to hold those last few points in someone’s home terrain. The home team should have an advantage in their home territory.

Idgarad.6105:

zerospin.8604:

Umm if the defenders have to use unreachable trebs in their home base, it seems they already are loosing hard, and got pushed back to the wall, so they should be able to do that.

Agreed. It should be incredibly difficult to hold those last few points in someone’s home terrain. The home team should have an advantage in their home territory.

Then the game would just be really boring. The better team wouldn’t bother going beyond the hills or bay if garrison were practically unholdable. Why not just make garrison an uncapturable point if they’re going to make it nearly impossible to hold?

blink.4239:

I’ve already destroyed this point. The fact is that the non-home team would have to invest more resources to defend a treb outside of a fort/keep. It doesn’t take much for a medium-sized group to suicide-rush siege that isn’t protected by a wall. Every time the home team decides to make cliff treb, the non-home team attempting to defend the garrison will have to make a practically undefendable treb to match them. That is patently stupid.

K.. let’s play the quote game. First and foremost, if your group is smart, they would spend their supplies on that treb instead of constantly wasting it on repairing walls/gates that those “unreachable trebs” with infinite shots are shooting at. Secondly, the non-home team has no reason to defend the garrison.. it shouldn’t have been theirs from the beginning if you’re trying to defend the western keep (in which case you obviously are defending it since you’re complaining about a “unreachable treb” on top of the garrison.) Third, you’re wrong.. it’s not practically undefended, it’s just simply in the open making it more vulnerable than normal but by no means undefended. Not only that but as I said, if you can’t do this then your side simply lacks organization to quickly build a treb and fire 3 shots (about all it takes to destroy an opposing treb with your own). So much for your “destroying this point”.

Are you dense? This is only a problem if you have the garrison. Having the garrison doesn’t resolve this. Those unreachable trebs are able to hit the garrison outer wall. That was basically the whole point of this thread. The northern keep (garrison) is much harder for non-home teams to defend because the home team can treb the outer walls with unreachable trebs.

Insulting others now are we? I’m not sure if you’re at all anymore serious or just simply trolling now.. If YOU have the garrison then it’s not a problem at all anymore. If you have the western keep then yea sure, it’s troublesome but as I’ve stated, not impossible to get rid of. I’m simply replying to you to tell you how it’s done. You can always keep wasting supply to repair wall/gate but it would take a lot less to try out the strategy I posted (in which case it actually works a lot better as known from experience).

I think it’s more likely a design flaw

Whatever the case may be, if they say it is then by all means call me wrong. Don’t insult me because I’ll happily admit where I’m wrong however before insulting someone please try to consider others opinions first. If you do not wish to, then fine. Just a simple request.

blink.4239:

Then the game would just be really boring. The better team wouldn’t bother going beyond the hills or bay if garrison were practically unholdable. Why not just make garrison an uncapturable point if they’re going to make it nearly impossible to hold?

The more and more you post, the more it seems you’re more so just too lazy to organize or care. So instead you want it pretty much handed to you without any work having to be done.

Osiath.4823:

blink.4239:

Then the game would just be really boring. The better team wouldn’t bother going beyond the hills or bay if garrison were practically unholdable. Why not just make garrison an uncapturable point if they’re going to make it nearly impossible to hold?

The more and more you post, the more it seems you’re more so just too lazy to organize or care. So instead you want it pretty much handed to you without any work having to be done.

Agreed. Let the home team waste what little precious resources they have on Trebs on a cliff. In the mean time the winners will just rake in the points.

If you want to destroy trebuchets on the cliffs at garrison, build a ballista on the field close and below them. Shot #2 on the Ballista, Splintering Bolt, can hit them. You’ll need a decent sized group to protect the ballistas, though.

Osiath.4823:

K.. let’s play the quote game. First and foremost, if your group is smart, they would spend their supplies on that treb instead of constantly wasting it on repairing walls/gates that those “unreachable trebs” with infinite shots are shooting at.

Straw man. Who said anything about wasting supplies on the walls? The effect of the unreachable treb is that the outer walls are down for good even if your team decided to spend money repairing them.

Osiath.4823:

Secondly, the non-home team has no reason to defend the garrison.. it shouldn’t have been theirs from the beginning if you’re trying to defend the western keep (in which case you obviously are defending it since you’re complaining about a “unreachable treb” on top of the garrison.)

There is plenty of reason to defend the garrison if the non-home team captures it. I don’t see your point.

Osiath.4823:

Third, you’re wrong.. it’s not practically undefended, it’s just simply in the open making it more vulnerable than normal but by no means undefended. Not only that but as I said, if you can’t do this then your side simply lacks organization to quickly build a treb and fire 3 shots (about all it takes to destroy an opposing treb with your own). So much for your “destroying this point”.

I said “practically undefendable”, and it is.

I didn’t suggest it was impossible to kill the unreachable treb with your strategy. But after the unreachable treb is down, it wouldn’t take more than a medium-sized group of the home team to do a suicide run on non-home team treb and destroy it. After which the home team builds a new unreachable treb (requiring minimal organization) while the non-home team has to gather another 100 supply to build a new treb that it’ll lose soon after taking out the enemies treb anyway.

The fact of the matter is that building a treb just to destroy an enemy treb, or a 1-1 trade, is patently stupid.

Insulting others now are we? I’m not sure if you’re at all anymore serious or just simply trolling now.. If YOU have the garrison then it’s not a problem at all anymore.

What do you mean it isn’t a problem? Are you saying that the unreachable trebs cannot take out the garrison’s outer wall? Because you’re wrong.

Osiath.4823:

If you have the western keep then yea sure, it’s troublesome but as I’ve stated, not impossible to get rid of.

Western keep? Are you referring to the western towers? Because the western keep, Bay, cannot be hit by the unreachable trebs. However, the both the east and west tower (the north east and north west tower) can be hit.

Osiath.4823:

I’m simply replying to you to tell you how it’s done. You can always keep wasting supply to repair wall/gate but it would take a lot less to try out the strategy I posted (in which case it actually works a lot better as known from experience).

Again, I never said we spent resources on repairing the wall. This is just a kid’s strawman. I said the trebs can keep the outer walls down for good.

Osiath.4823:

Whatever the case may be, if they say it is then by all means call me wrong. Don’t insult me because I’ll happily admit where I’m wrong however before insulting someone please try to consider others opinions first. If you do not wish to, then fine. Just a simple request.

I’m insulting you because you’re either stupid or you are intentionally using kitten logic (trolling).

Osiath.4823:

blink.4239:

Then the game would just be really boring. The better team wouldn’t bother going beyond the hills or bay if garrison were practically unholdable. Why not just make garrison an uncapturable point if they’re going to make it nearly impossible to hold?

The more and more you post, the more it seems you’re more so just too lazy to organize or care. So instead you want it pretty much handed to you without any work having to be done.

More kiddie logic from the kid.

I don’t think the home team should be able to build unreachable trebs that can down the outer walls of garrison. That must mean that I want EVERYTHING handed to me on a silver platter. While we’re assuming motives, I think you’re on one of the kittenervers that uses this cheap trick.

This should be working as intended. If your main base is getting spawn camped, you should be able to place siege in your home base.

Limulus.4380:

This should be working as intended. If your main base is getting spawn camped, you should be able to place siege in your home base.

Non-home team holding garrison =/= home team getting spawn camped.

Back when I was in vietnam, we used to put the trebuchets on top of our choppers and take charlie’s base all nite long, no big deal.

@Osiath.4823
I think you are confused about where blink is talking about. You seem to think he is talking about putting trebs in Garrison and using it to attack things. He is talking about putting trebs on the edge of Citadel just outside the Invulnerable area and using them to attack garrison. It basically makes it near impossible for anyone except the home team to defend the outer walls of Garison because they will constantly be taking down.

This has nothing to do with the home team getting spawned camped. I think the people using this argument are confused about how the borderlands maps are laid out.

Enemy borderlands you have a corner spawn point, you are invulnerable here, that you can be pushed back to and own 0 keeps.
Home borderlands you have the center big citadel, you are invulnerable here, that is worth 0 points but allows you easier access to all sides of the map. Making it easier to mobilize troops. What is happening is the siege is being built on the edge of that center citadel and being used to bomb Garrison which is just down the hill. The siege can’t be built inside an invulnerable area so they build it just outside but it’s on a ledge that attackers can’t get too.

It does kind of suck that the home team can bomb both towers and Bay’s walls from their own safety net. However, there is a counter: effective siege placement, and hoping the guy on those trebs is just bad at games.

We had a hard time taking Cliffside tower last night, because there were two trebs, two catapults, and a bunch of dudes up there to man them. When we finally took it, I built my own trebuchet and blew them all away. Why? because the dudes on the other side were completely oblivious to my twenty-foot tall wooden monstrosity, and were busy trying to bomb people at the tower door.

GW2 was touted for its reliance on tactics and positioning. If someone is using a lazy tactic like the cliff trebs, use a better one.

@Orikx.9671
Youre absolutely correct. I was confused and you cleared it up for me. Thanks!
With that being said, as i said earlier ill happily admit when im wrong, so to blink, i apologize due to thinking you were talking about what Orikx has mentioned. I had no idea people were building into the citadel, i have apparently misread and misunderstood.

fractalKinesis.8569:

It does kind of suck that the home team can bomb both towers and Bay’s walls from their own safety net. However, there is a counter: effective siege placement, and hoping the guy on those trebs is just bad at games.

We had a hard time taking Cliffside tower last night, because there were two trebs, two catapults, and a bunch of dudes up there to man them. When we finally took it, I built my own trebuchet and blew them all away. Why? because the dudes on the other side were completely oblivious to my twenty-foot tall wooden monstrosity, and were busy trying to bomb people at the tower door.

GW2 was touted for its reliance on tactics and positioning. If someone is using a lazy tactic like the cliff trebs, use a better one.

Yeah I’m personally kind of on the fence about this tactic for the exact reasons you mentioned. The counter is using Siege to take it out. However since it’s so high up you have to be extremely close with your own siege to destroy it I think. Which basically means putting siege up at Cliff side. Anyone with have a brain should be able to destroy your build site long before you even get a chance to build the treb to counter it so it still gives the home team a huge advantage on a map where they already have the advantage of having a center spawn and basically their own supply camp up north.

Just out of curiosity does anyone know what happens if you hit the keep lord with the treb from there? Can you actually kill the keep lord w/o even having someone inside the keep or does there have to be someone in his room?

You won’t be able to kill him, he’ll become invulnerable. And even if he does die, someone still has to be in the circle in the lord’s room to cap it.

fractalKinesis.8569:

You won’t be able to kill him, he’ll become invulnerable. And even if he does die, someone still has to be in the circle in the lord’s room to cap it.

Yeah. I think that’s the case for any mob that can’t hit you back. After a few seconds it becomes invulnerable.

Not even sure they can hit the inner wall at garrison from the cliff.

Yeah I don’t think you can hit the keep lord of Garrison from there because he is in that big room.

I actually meant Tower Lord or whatever they are called at Cliffside because you can hit him easily with a treb from the cliff. I’ve seen him hit just never payed any attention to what happened after you hit him.

Fatfuzzy.2659:

Back when I was in vietnam, we used to put the trebuchets on top of our choppers and take charlie’s base all nite long, no big deal.

Oh, come on! If you put a treb on top of a chopper, it would have to be on the rotors, so it would be spinning so fast you would never be sure where the shot went. I strongly suspect this is not true … maybe. I don’t know. I was in the Navy at that time, and who knows what the Army and Air Force were doing. It was hard enough getting sail-powered vessels up to high enough speed to launch aircraft, so I didn’t much pay attention to the treb-chopper experimentation.

So let me get this straight…. have trouble killing these trebs unless you take the tower nearby and build siege. This would be basically the same as those in Garrison able to treb the Bay keep uncontested unless the Garrison is stormed is it not?

@ Naropa

What? I understand the first sentence but the second is incoherent.

Technically yes we can take out the cliff trebs if we take a tower. However, if the people on the cliff trebs are competent, they will destroy any siege we attempt to build in the tower before we can get 3 shots off. That’s why I say we can “technically” kill the cliff trebs from the towers. It’s not easy to do, even if you time it perfectly.

Again, I don’t understand your second sentence.

Pertaining to your mention of UnreachableTrebs. The refereee from Celebrity Deathmatch said it best “I’ll allow it.”

No one ever yells when their team is doing it. How odd.

You don’t have to exploit this, just build ballistas on the road below them and shoot them – it works.

Raffie.7865:

Pertaining to your mention of UnreachableTrebs. The refereee from Celebrity Deathmatch said it best “I’ll allow it.”

No one ever yells when their team is doing it. How odd.

The point. You missed it.

Serashen.6793:

You don’t have to exploit this, just build ballistas on the road below them and shoot them – it works.

Yes. Have fun defending those. They won’t last long enough to get the job done.

defending garrison or atacking ir from towers is not the real problem here people..
or even atacking from garrison to the lower keep from unreachable terrain..
thats why we have a 3 way map.. you get the lower keep on 1 map, you get the higer ground on another one.. so its all balances..

now, THIS is what im pointing and we need clarification from ANET what we suposed to do.. the only way to get there and kill the siege is jumping up to invulnerable terrain wich may be considered an exploit (if it were’nt for the 1 shot guards all over)

seems ANET does’nt care about this.. so my best guess would be that we can do both things.. setup invulnerable siege no our homeland, and go up hill jumping to kill defender siege when atacking..

It’s an annoying tactic for sure, but something I think I’ve seen used myself … If I remember correctly, those trebs can be hit by elementalist AoE (meteor shower) – at least those in the picture by Tuks. Feel free to try it out and correct me if I’m wrong.