Guild Wars 2

Boonshare is currently THE strongest pick for any WvW raiding guild. Now, boonshare isn’t a huge problem on it’s own. The problem is, boonshare offers way to much and completely removes tactics and weaknesses of a melee.

Currently, boonshare mesmers with the trait can stack around 30 seconds of resistance to an entire melee group. Which sounds great right? Not being able to be condition bombed and all that jazz.
However, the main issue is, not every condition is there to do damage, infact a lot of conditions are there to control fights and slow down enemy groups (chills/cripples/imbos, etc) Everybody knows that a melee trains main weakness is “soft CC” (chills/cripples/imbos) so when you can apply 30+ seconds of resistance to a said melee, along with the new stab changes, melee trains are almost unstoppable and completely uncontrollable.

It’s sad for me to see these “tactics” being used, when they really dumb down group fighting and can give one group a huge advantage.
If you put an semi-good/average group vs a good group atm, and give the average group the boonshare, the average group will win 90% of the time.

My proposal is for “temporal enchanter” to be changed to not apply resistance, and/or for the Revenant skill “pain absorption” to have a higher energy cost, or to give out a little less resistance to the party.

It’s time to actually tone down the overpowered conditions (Burning/Confusion) and focus on promoting active condition cleansing.

Please don’t let this game get more and more dumbed down. Give us back what makes the game so addictive, engage us!

They already gutted temporal enchanter by 33%. If you are angry about boon share do something about it. Roll a freaking boon strip necro/mesmer. There is ALOT of boon strip, in aoe format, available. Here is something I scrapped together that may or may not function but I can guarantee WILL strip boons:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAW3Yjc0QNN2TDW2A/NOwFq5YX2VRcr7gPA2mBwCA-TFhkABAoE0Rlfvt/gfq/EAABwRP6RP6RPaAA-w

Could use tailoring but I think you get the idea.

To be honest the problem is resistance is far too strong when coupled with stab now. You can boonrip it if they hang around in wells and null field but you gotten get lucky at corrupting/removing it.

To be honest I think it’s resistance that needs looking at, it’s basically what stab was to hard CC before stacks were added. Except even worse because it gives immunity to every condition in the game.

Conditions and resistance as a whole need looking at.

Without small-duration resistance, conditions are OP, just like boons. If boon-stripping is made more accessible for builds not delving into conditions, though, the condition builds become more OP.

Boon and conditions systems as a whole need a lot of work to make balanced scale-able play. Right now, neither are, so the game isn’t balanced.

I think if you have a boon that makes you immune from conditions you take more physical damage and if you have a boon that makes you immune to physical damage you take more damage from conditions.

i was 2 last years without playing and games sucks as never in WxWxW, everything its wrong, still the no nothing toughness values , some op classes, fights happens in seconds, boons are op , boons sharing in large groups make incredible combos , its almost impossible to get ride of them, some classes (warrior, guardian and elementalist) haves infinite boons, but the worst from worst its still health recap in pvp or wxwxw as a gift,
I can understand they give recap health on PvE so game’s fastest, but in any kind of pvp, its nonsense.
The game had nice early fights along the first year, now a days its so bad.
WxWxW its annoying to play around, my 2 cents , still the same old maps but with awfull new mecanics on tower and keeps, old way was far better.
Meh and pvp haves craping server’s disconneting over and over….

Justine.6351:

They already gutted temporal enchanter by 33%. If you are angry about boon share do something about it. Roll a freaking boon strip necro/mesmer. There is ALOT of boon strip, in aoe format, available. Here is something I scrapped together that may or may not function but I can guarantee WILL strip boons.

We already run that as a group, doesn’t change the fact that will always be hit and miss, and any group worth fighting isn’t gonna hang around in the wells and null field long enough for them to have any real effect. Corrupt boon isn’t gonna do much either, as unless it’s coupled with 4 necros focusing 1 guard, you aren’t gonna take enough boons away to kill him. And then, you’re basically forcing necros to run with corrupt boon on the 3rd utility, even though ideally you want to be running a mix.

As for what everyone else has said, I completely agree. Might be an idea to make resistance make you immune to damaging conditions, but not CC ones. Not perfect I know, but would definitely make fighting boonshare much more accessible for none condition groups. (which as of right now is 90% of raiding guilds)

TheBeesKnees.8391:

Justine.6351:

They already gutted temporal enchanter by 33%. If you are angry about boon share do something about it. Roll a freaking boon strip necro/mesmer. There is ALOT of boon strip, in aoe format, available. Here is something I scrapped together that may or may not function but I can guarantee WILL strip boons.

We already run that as a group, doesn’t change the fact that will always be hit and miss, and any group worth fighting isn’t gonna hang around in the wells and null field long enough for them to have any real effect. Corrupt boon isn’t gonna do much either, as unless it’s coupled with 4 necros focusing 1 guard, you aren’t gonna take enough boons away to kill him. And then, you’re basically forcing necros to run with corrupt boon on the 3rd utility, even though ideally you want to be running a mix.

As for what everyone else has said, I completely agree. Might be an idea to make resistance make you immune to damaging conditions, but not CC ones. Not perfect I know, but would definitely make fighting boonshare much more accessible for none condition groups. (which as of right now is 90% of raiding guilds)

So don’t use the well.

Necro has like 7ish 1&2 aoe boon converters beyond the well. And beyond that they have many other single target boon converts.

Yes it is pretty obvious resistance is over tuned IF it is focused heavy. A hard option may be to remove it’s boon status like alacrity and superspeed. Another option is to remove it’s ability to stack duration. Another option is to add “removes resistance” to a few of the aoe boon corrupters.

This is completely exaggerated.

I’ve yet to see 30 seconds of resistance. I WvW a ton. I know that theoretically, it’s possible, and sure, maybe under controlled circumstances with the ideal party comp and with your allies popping the right skills at the exact right time. But that almost never, ever happens in real world circumstances.

The other thing to keep in mind is that if you are running a frontline mesmer for boonshare and a Malix rev for resistance, then you have 2 fronline people doing no dps. I’ve tried these. A malix rev is doing nothing but spamming Pain Absorbtion. This means they have no energy to use any other high dps skills. Also, if they’re traited in corruption, they have to give up something else that has better dps or defensive aspects meaning they need to have more invested in defensive stats.

The same thing holds true for a mesmer. If their main purpose is boonshare, and veil, then they need to be within 600 units of their entire party. That means they need to be on tag and spec heavily into toughness/vitality. They also have some of the worst dps skills in the game. So, again, no dps.

If you haven’t gotten it, in order to accomplish this gimmick, one is sacrificing a lot of dps, and it’s almost impossible to pull off in a zerg fight. So, if a guild wants to do this, let them. It takes a lot of co-ordination to even accomplish anything close to 30 seconds of resistance. It’s not op at all. Wipe their backline, then they won’t be able to do anything. They’re still susceptible to direct damage and boonstrip/corruption.

Spurnshadow.3678:

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Things may be different over in America, but on the EU, tanky frontlines with Revs and Mesmers is a pretty common thing. Also, it takes very little effort to actually stack the 30 seconds of resistance, any monkey with half a brain can pull it off mid Empower.

Now, tell me one thing. Who’s gonna win when your (none resistance group) is trying to kill their backline, while their resistance group is going for yours? The group without the mesmer isn’t gonna hold up due to the constant pressure of chills/cripples etc… While the other groups just trains over the other, giving the backline little to no chance of getting into a safe position.
All that is theoretical ofc, yet still the point is still valid.

Justine.6351:

So don’t use the well.

Necro has like 7ish 1&2 aoe boon converters beyond the well. And beyond that they have many other single target boon converts.

Yes it is pretty obvious resistance is over tuned IF it is focused heavy. A hard option may be to remove it’s boon status like alacrity and superspeed. Another option is to remove it’s ability to stack duration. Another option is to add “removes resistance” to a few of the aoe boon corrupters.

Yeah, let’s just remove a big damage source and make Necros (A primary damage class) a boonstrip class. That sounds like a great idea. (Sarcasm)

Wouldn’t it be the easiest way to change resistance into the same effect as aegis, with the difference that it’s about to block one condition, maybe for 3sec or something after it popped to offer a proper counter for e.g. shadder mesmer and their tons of confusion?

A thought on resistance,

-100% effectiveness of condition effects
-33% condition dmg

TheBeesKnees.8391:

Spurnshadow.3678:

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Things may be different over in America, but on the EU, tanky frontlines with Revs and Mesmers is a pretty common thing. Also, it takes very little effort to actually stack the 30 seconds of resistance, any monkey with half a brain can pull it off mid Empower.

Now, tell me one thing. Who’s gonna win when your (none resistance group) is trying to kill their backline, while their resistance group is going for yours? The group without the mesmer isn’t gonna hold up due to the constant pressure of chills/cripples etc… While the other groups just trains over the other, giving the backline little to no chance of getting into a safe position.
All that is theoretical ofc, yet still the point is still valid.

Sure, the rev will have resistance up 100%, but not any of the other party members. Show me a video of a decent fight with a non-rev with resistance up all the time.

But those ohhhhhh sooooo opppppp roaming guilds love them. Code for “crutch lovers”.

Spurnshadow.3678:

This is completely exaggerated.

I’ve yet to see 30 seconds of resistance. I WvW a ton. I know that theoretically, it’s possible, and sure, maybe under controlled circumstances with the ideal party comp and with your allies popping the right skills at the exact right time. But that almost never, ever happens in real world circumstances.

The other thing to keep in mind is that if you are running a frontline mesmer for boonshare and a Malix rev for resistance, then you have 2 fronline people doing no dps. I’ve tried these. A malix rev is doing nothing but spamming Pain Absorbtion. This means they have no energy to use any other high dps skills. Also, if they’re traited in corruption, they have to give up something else that has better dps or defensive aspects meaning they need to have more invested in defensive stats.

The same thing holds true for a mesmer. If their main purpose is boonshare, and veil, then they need to be within 600 units of their entire party. That means they need to be on tag and spec heavily into toughness/vitality. They also have some of the worst dps skills in the game. So, again, no dps.

If you haven’t gotten it, in order to accomplish this gimmick, one is sacrificing a lot of dps, and it’s almost impossible to pull off in a zerg fight. So, if a guild wants to do this, let them. It takes a lot of co-ordination to even accomplish anything close to 30 seconds of resistance. It’s not op at all. Wipe their backline, then they won’t be able to do anything. They’re still susceptible to direct damage and boonstrip/corruption.

You can get up to 40s and you are also forgetting about all the other boons too, 2-5 mins on swiftness, protection, regen, retaliation, vigor, fury and 25 might. Sometimes it will include quickness too but I don’t often see that.

Most front lines are running runes of durability too which give boon duration and resistance, protection and regen in AoE when hit with 20s ICD. When you have them splashing around in addition to the boon share you’re getting extremely strong boons up 100% of the time making you a big unstoppable juggernaut.

They also don’t not just have it on the front lines, quickness on back lines makes you bomb much much faster, makes them harder to kill and lock down. Essentially the only thing any of them have to worry about is corrupts and hard CC if you don’t happen to have stability, though they will have stability.

Any mesmer worth their salt doesn’t need tanks gear. Durability runes, boon duration food and oils with a rev gets you to 100% boon duration. Can play GS with Sw/t or whatever you want in full zerk, you got permenant protection and resistance, nothing to worry about. You really aren’t sacrificing much to do this. The Mesmer only needs signet of inspiration, the revs only need to take mallyx legend not corruption line as it doesn’t grant extra boons to others.

Remember it’s boons > mesmer. Then mesmer copies to everyone. All that matters is passing them to the mesmer so they can then double them on everyone else.

Thats not exaggerated, since ANet introduced Eveneannts/Herolds with their way too overpowered 50% Boonshare and the introduction of Boon Duration as official Attribute (Concentration) with more spread ways for playrs to increase their maximum Boon Durations alot higher, than ever before, thesek ind of super long boon durations are absolutely nothing special, especialyl whend being in a huge WvW crowd where everyoen stacks together…

In a game where I as solo player can have perma swiftness throug just using dodges as daredevil, it is absolutely nothing outrageous to see somethign like 30-40 seconds of resistance coming from a stacked WvW crow full of boonshare mesmers and said revenants that further increase the total duration as long as the pack stays together in their reach

then there are also such ridiculous sigils, like the Sigil of Concetration which further spices this up and is for 100% sure also reason for this to be even possible, thus the reasonable logical high price for these things

Theres currently so many thigns in this games combat system runnign so absurdly out of control, it isnt funny anymore

Spurnshadow.3678:

This is completely exaggerated.

I’ve yet to see 30 seconds of resistance. I WvW a ton. I know that theoretically, it’s possible, and sure, maybe under controlled circumstances with the ideal party comp and with your allies popping the right skills at the exact right time. But that almost never, ever happens in real world circumstances.

As a “BG native” how have you not come across ND at any point in the past year?

Boonshare is just one way to run the current super-tanky meta. It’s a composition that’s gained popularity mainly as a response to the absurd amount of condi cleave and damage introduced with the expansion. The high uptime of resistance and protection creates a much more interesting environment for fights because it prevents all the new one-shot gimmicks that plague the game. Unfortunately, by forcing people to stack defensive effects, Anet has dramatically limited variety and options in compositions. Hard counters are heavily enforced because comps without certain crutches are vastly inferior, and people are being carried by builds over execution.

As much as I loathe these gimmicky comps, removing them without also hard-nerfing damage (condi and power alike) across the board would negatively impact the dynamics of fights (i.e. never push because you’ll get blown the kitten up before you even reach your target). I have no faith that Anet’s balance team (lol) will ever do that.

All that said, being able to prebuff boons to such an extreme extent is plain silly and shouldn’t be a thing.

tl;dr the actual outcome of the current meta is good – it requires more coordination to get kills and they mean more to the fight, movement is emphasized and backlines are rewarded more for proper positioning. But the way this “pace” has been created is absolute dogkitten and you’re forced to abuse cheesy mechanics to stay competitive.

TheBeesKnees.8391:

If you put an semi-good/average group vs a good group atm, and give the average group the boonshare, the average group will win 90% of the time.

It just means that your good group in reality is just average. A good group will quickly adapt to the best synergy that will bring them greater chance of victory.

Boonsharing has nothing to do with the other boons. I have tons of buffs up most, if not all the time from all the other classes and builds out there. Protection, regen, vigor, whatever it is that you guys are complaining about has nothing to do with this meta. So many classes pump out boons all the time.

Look, this game has boons. Lots of classes pump them out. It’s been a part of the game since launch. It’s a built in mechanic of GW2. It is the inevitable effect of WvW. The enemy has them, and you have them, so it’s all equal, and not worth complaining about. Are you guys coming from a PvP viewpoint where you’re usually by yourself or just with a couple people? I just don’t get it. This issue with “boonsharing” has to do with reisistance, which like I’ve stated, is very hard to pull off. I’ve never had resistance up 100% as a guardian, even paired with a boonshare mesmer and rev. I’ve tried runes of durability and think they’re total crap compared to other runes out there. The only way they’re effective is if everyone in you’re party is running them, which is almost never. Even then, I think they’re totally overrated.

If you don’t like boons, then just don’t play the game.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Boonsharing has nothing to do with the other boons. I have tons of buffs up most, if not all the time from all the other classes and builds out there. Protection, regen, vigor, whatever it is that you guys are complaining about has nothing to do with this meta. So many classes pump out boons all the time.

Look, this game has boons. Lots of classes pump them out. It’s been a part of the game since launch. It’s a built in mechanic of GW2. It is the inevitable effect of WvW. The enemy has them, and you have them, so it’s all equal, and not worth complaining about. Are you guys coming from a PvP viewpoint where you’re usually by yourself or just with a couple people? I just don’t get it. This issue with “boonsharing” has to do with reisistance, which like I’ve stated, is very hard to pull off. I’ve never had resistance up 100% as a guardian, even paired with a boonshare mesmer and rev. I’ve tried runes of durability and think they’re total crap compared to other runes out there. The only way they’re effective is if everyone in you’re party is running them, which is almost never. Even then, I think they’re totally overrated.

If you don’t like boons, then just don’t play the game.

When did anyone say they didn’t like boons? Implying we want to remove signet of inspiration is just silly, as no one has said anything of the kind. The problem isn’t boons, it’s the resistance.

I really don’t know how you’ve been trying to stack resistance, but it really isn’t difficult. Not to mention, no one said anything about a 100% uptime, but between 30-40 seconds is the average time of your first full engage.

As I’ve already pointed out, there are obviously differences in metas across the pond. Just because it’s something you’ve obviously never fought against in a raiding scenario doesn’t mean it’s not a problem over in the EU.

SkyShroud.2865:

TheBeesKnees.8391:

If you put an semi-good/average group vs a good group atm, and give the average group the boonshare, the average group will win 90% of the time.

It just means that your good group in reality is just average. A good group will quickly adapt to the best synergy that will bring them greater chance of victory.

Considering that quote was completely theoretical and in no way a testament to my groups ability to face it, I just gotta say – lol.

Any group with any dignity wont jump on the easiest specs just because it’s effective. Same reason why any decent roamer wouldn’t run condi mesmer.

Conditions are WAY too strong right now, so having this boonshare stuff to stack up resistance is really the only hope for a lot of these groups trying to fight big condi blobs.

I was playing on my Elementalist a couple days ago and ran in to a burn guardian that was ticking 8k burn ticks on me, that is hitting me harder than a full zerk guardian would lol.. When conditions are hitting harder than raw power in a single tick, there is a problem.

Really what needs to happen is a complete rework of conditions. They should be toned down extremely then made to be effected by crit chance and ferocity for damage increases. That way someone can’t just throw on a full set of dire armor and live forever and do more damage than a full zerk person can do. Not really balanced currently. Dire users damage should be in line with Soldier users damage. No big modifier like crit chance and ferocity, then you deal significantly less damage, just like someone using soldiers would.

So nope, can’t feel bad about the boon share stuff going on with resistance right now. It is really all us power builds have left to save face against these condition builds.

The cheese is what makes WvW fun, no?

XTR.9604:

Conditions are WAY too strong right now, so having this boonshare stuff to stack up resistance is really the only hope for a lot of these groups trying to fight big condi blobs.

I was playing on my Elementalist a couple days ago and ran in to a burn guardian that was ticking 8k burn ticks on me, that is hitting me harder than a full zerk guardian would lol.. When conditions are hitting harder than raw power in a single tick, there is a problem.

You’re completely missing the point, ofc conditions need a bit of work. No one is saying they don’t, especially burning and confusion. Making yourself immune to every condition for 30/40 seconds isn’t really the answer.

You getting hit with 8k Burning ticks was either from an organised piece of play to 1 shot you, or a l2p issue on your account from not cleansing the burning as you saw it come on to you. It could be both. Thing is, how is that different to a thief coming in to backstab you? The only difference is, is the thief has a chance of getting away. If your group is doing anything right, then you should be under enough protection from people jumping you with any kind of damage. But again, the guardian would be punished for dropping you, where as the thief could easily get away.

TheBeesKnees.8391:

SkyShroud.2865:

TheBeesKnees.8391:

If you put an semi-good/average group vs a good group atm, and give the average group the boonshare, the average group will win 90% of the time.

It just means that your good group in reality is just average. A good group will quickly adapt to the best synergy that will bring them greater chance of victory.

Considering that quote was completely theoretical and in no way a testament to my groups ability to face it, I just gotta say – lol.

Any group with any dignity wont jump on the easiest specs just because it’s effective. Same reason why any decent roamer wouldn’t run condi mesmer.

You know, there is a difference between dignity and stupidity.
And no, condi mesmer isn’t a good comparison to your logic because power shatter still works.

TheBeesKnees.8391:

XTR.9604:

Conditions are WAY too strong right now, so having this boonshare stuff to stack up resistance is really the only hope for a lot of these groups trying to fight big condi blobs.

I was playing on my Elementalist a couple days ago and ran in to a burn guardian that was ticking 8k burn ticks on me, that is hitting me harder than a full zerk guardian would lol.. When conditions are hitting harder than raw power in a single tick, there is a problem.

You’re completely missing the point, ofc conditions need a bit of work. No one is saying they don’t, especially burning and confusion. Making yourself immune to every condition for 30/40 seconds isn’t really the answer.

You getting hit with 8k Burning ticks was either from an organised piece of play to 1 shot you, or a l2p issue on your account from not cleansing the burning as you saw it come on to you. It could be both. Thing is, how is that different to a thief coming in to backstab you? The only difference is, is the thief has a chance of getting away. If your group is doing anything right, then you should be under enough protection from people jumping you with any kind of damage. But again, the guardian would be punished for dropping you, where as the thief could easily get away.

I didn’t have any L2P issue because his quick stack of burns he threw on me were almost instantly removed by diamond skin lol. The fact of the matter is, he managed to throw an 8k burn tick on me, an ele running diamond skin. Didn’t one shot me, in fact, he lost the fight. I took him down a minute or two later. The fact of the matter is that it shouldn’t be able to hit that hard and remain as tank as it is with dire. Because burn guard only has one real condition they can apply without the use of other sigils or something, he stood zero chance against my ele, but was still able to bring me to half HP a couple times in the fight due to the insane damage from the burns lol.

I get your point, resistance OP. But conditions also OP right now. Both need a nurf, but conditions need a nurf before boon share/duration does.

Conditions also shouldn’t be able to just ignore toughness. Your only saving grace against conditions is clears and tons of HP.

Condi doesn’t instantly destroy a group. Good. Change your build and adjust.

Boonsharing takes coordination, while a group of condi builds that pew-pew from a distance dosen’t.

I got an idea! Lets stop asking anet to make this game a lifeless starting now.

I think most boon stripping/corruption skills (aoe) probably need a substantial buff at this point in the game (WvW) with the level at which boons can be barfed out nonstop.

Shadow Bane.9362:

I think most boon stripping/corruption skills (aoe) probably need a substantial buff at this point in the game (WvW) with the level at which boons can be barfed out nonstop.

To be honest I’d like to see a significant reduction in the boon spam rather than buffing of removal. Most people don’t even realize how much they’re spamming protection, regen, fury, swiftness and 10-20 might.

Best example is look at an ESL when a teamfight happens, boons just shoot up and stay up. WvW just takes this to the extreme to show how utterly unbalanced it is.

the mesmer boonshare trait could have a cap on how many boons it shares, maybe 3-5, and exclude stab and resistance.

honestly i think all boons and condis should have a hard cap.

XTR.9604:

Conditions are WAY too strong right now, so having this boonshare stuff to stack up resistance is really the only hope for a lot of these groups trying to fight big condi blobs.

I was playing on my Elementalist a couple days ago and ran in to a burn guardian that was ticking 8k burn ticks on me, that is hitting me harder than a full zerk guardian would lol.. When conditions are hitting harder than raw power in a single tick, there is a problem.

Really what needs to happen is a complete rework of conditions. They should be toned down extremely then made to be effected by crit chance and ferocity for damage increases. That way someone can’t just throw on a full set of dire armor and live forever and do more damage than a full zerk person can do. Not really balanced currently. Dire users damage should be in line with Soldier users damage. No big modifier like crit chance and ferocity, then you deal significantly less damage, just like someone using soldiers would.

So nope, can’t feel bad about the boon share stuff going on with resistance right now. It is really all us power builds have left to save face against these condition builds.

You’re talking about a 1v1 situation. This thread is about larger, organized group play.

Stand The Wall.6987:

the mesmer boonshare trait could have a cap on how many boons it shares, maybe 3-5, and exclude stab and resistance.

honestly i think all boons and condis should have a hard cap.

Ah yes, the classic "lets slaughter mesmers in PvE with myopic and absurd mechanic changes due to PvP and WvW concerns’ idea.

Fay.2357:

Stand The Wall.6987:

the mesmer boonshare trait could have a cap on how many boons it shares, maybe 3-5, and exclude stab and resistance.

honestly i think all boons and condis should have a hard cap.

Ah yes, the classic "lets slaughter mesmers in PvE with myopic and absurd mechanic changes due to PvP and WvW concerns’ idea.

To be fair Pyro if the Devs hadn’t done such a terrible job with mesmer in PvE in the first place it would be a no brainer. Pre HoT they were reflect/portal bot only really useful for speed clears, post HoT they’re mainly quickness and alacrity bots. The rest of the utility? Pfft shut up and give me quickness so us real classes can do all the hard work.

I have been saying this in the mesmer sub forum, mesmer may be mandatory and almost a requirement for raids but that doesn’t put them in a good place at all. Something does need to be done about the boon share in WvW though, running around as a 15-20 man group with everyone but the mesmer on 2-5 mins of everything but resistance and quickness which are at something like 30-40s and never really dip past 20s is absurd.

I will add my name to the anti-boonshare group. I have used and abused this method myself. I understand rewarding coordination, but its really just such passive gameplay. A combination of stats, consumables and traits creates such broken gameplay.

Our group of 10 should not be able to get a minute of protection, 30 secs of resistance, etc. etc. Keep in mind we are doing nothing combative or reactive to obtain this. We just have the right gear and consumables, stack a few boons and then have them multiplied.

I think the stab change was good, but this mechanic needs to be brought down to balance the playing field.

If they nerf boonshare this will be another huge hit to small teams. It is one of the last tactics that give small teams a chance against big zergs. Giant pug blobs dont do this cause it takes to much coordination to do it right. This thread makes me realize how wvw has become the mindless blob fest it is today.

I have no problem with small man tactics. If small man tactics rely on the large generation of passive boons, then there is a problem with balance. Especially when the counter is reliant on the somewhat random corruption of boons with slow pulsing easy to avoid AoEs.

Knob.6835:

If they nerf boonshare this will be another huge hit to small teams. It is one of the last tactics that give small teams a chance against big zergs. Giant pug blobs dont do this cause it takes to much coordination to do it right. This thread makes me realize how wvw has become the mindless blob fest it is today.

Except it isn’t small groups rituously vanquishing the evil pug blob hell bent on destroying the world (versus world). I’ve seen medium sized groups running this with a big Zerg backing them up against a smaller group not employing this tactic.

What do you do when you have three 20 man guilds that outnumber you heavily taking your entire border while being nigh unstoppable in a fight due to this? Thankfully only 1 guild is lame enough to run this on our current opponents but when they do they’re the ones backing up the mindless pug group and corpse jumping the roamers they train over.

Lol yeah we get whole EB blobs now running perma resi and perma protection. I just dont expect anything from Anet anymore at this point. I stick to duelling – the rest of the game is completely broken since HoT. Funny how people always say “game not balanced for 1v1” when 1v1 is actually the most balanced “game mode” in this mess atm.

Spurnshadow.3678:

I’ve yet to see 30 seconds of resistance.

That’s because you’re on NA which is always slow to catch up. It’s been a thing in EU for months that some guilds have abused.

Fay.2357:

Stand The Wall.6987:

the mesmer boonshare trait could have a cap on how many boons it shares, maybe 3-5, and exclude stab and resistance.

honestly i think all boons and condis should have a hard cap.

Ah yes, the classic "lets slaughter mesmers in PvE with myopic and absurd mechanic changes due to PvP and WvW concerns’ idea.

what other boons do you need in pve other then might and fury, with the occasional protection, stab and whatever else? you make it seem like pve is hard or something.

TheBeesKnees.8391:

XTR.9604:

Conditions are WAY too strong right now, so having this boonshare stuff to stack up resistance is really the only hope for a lot of these groups trying to fight big condi blobs.

I was playing on my Elementalist a couple days ago and ran in to a burn guardian that was ticking 8k burn ticks on me, that is hitting me harder than a full zerk guardian would lol.. When conditions are hitting harder than raw power in a single tick, there is a problem.

Thing is, how is that different to a thief coming in to backstab you?

Lol, or compare it to a thief backstabbing you every 1 second since that’s more comparable to a burn ticking* for 8k.

dank.3680:

Lol, or compare it to a thief backstabbing you every 1 second since that’s more comparable to a burn ticking* for 8k.

Thing is, a thief will still kill you just as quick on a raid ready staff ele, and possibly get away with it. The guardian shouldn’t get away. ^^ Not to say burning isnt a joke, it is. So is confusion. But they’re not a valid reason for running with boonshare.

I hate conditions as much as the next guy, probably more. But is passively being immune to every condition for the first push the answer? Oh helllllllllllllllllllll no.

It makes sense right now for resistance to be like protection, making damaging conditions do 33% less damage. Ofc as well as this, we’ll still need a significant nerf to burning and confusion.

apharma.3741:

Shadow Bane.9362:

I think most boon stripping/corruption skills (aoe) probably need a substantial buff at this point in the game (WvW) with the level at which boons can be barfed out nonstop.

To be honest I’d like to see a significant reduction in the boon spam rather than buffing of removal. Most people don’t even realize how much they’re spamming protection, regen, fury, swiftness and 10-20 might.

Best example is look at an ESL when a teamfight happens, boons just shoot up and stay up. WvW just takes this to the extreme to show how utterly unbalanced it is.

Bingo. Why make boons only have a disadvantage to mass corrupt/strip? Just make them less accessible so that they’re small, temporary bonuses as they were intended to be.

apharma.3741:

Fay.2357:

Stand The Wall.6987:

the mesmer boonshare trait could have a cap on how many boons it shares, maybe 3-5, and exclude stab and resistance.

honestly i think all boons and condis should have a hard cap.

Ah yes, the classic "lets slaughter mesmers in PvE with myopic and absurd mechanic changes due to PvP and WvW concerns’ idea.

To be fair Pyro if the Devs hadn’t done such a terrible job with mesmer in PvE in the first place it would be a no brainer. Pre HoT they were reflect/portal bot only really useful for speed clears, post HoT they’re mainly quickness and alacrity bots. The rest of the utility? Pfft shut up and give me quickness so us real classes can do all the hard work.

I have been saying this in the mesmer sub forum, mesmer may be mandatory and almost a requirement for raids but that doesn’t put them in a good place at all. Something does need to be done about the boon share in WvW though, running around as a 15-20 man group with everyone but the mesmer on 2-5 mins of everything but resistance and quickness which are at something like 30-40s and never really dip past 20s is absurd.

Quite. If they hadn’t locked the profession into a “burst or bust” role with shatters innately (and instead put the associated damage/utility dependent on traits or weapons like every other class), mesmer wouldn’t be in the position of the gimmick role. Buff its sustained DPS and it becomes OP, the class can’t get more burst otherwise it risks being OP as well, and direct sustain via heals etc. is not really how it’s themed, so what’s left are a few gimmicky profession-unique skills which let the class be in demand but not have much going for it in terms of interesting play options.

While I mean not to derail the thread into a topic on the mesmer, boons and conditions themselves (especially with confusion and its mesmer-centric focus) face flaws that really need to be adjusted. The more we push for build wars 2, the more you see classes marginalized like mesmer and pre-damage-buff thief, because things like boons and effects can just replace entire other classes, and I still stand by the fact that the thief didn’t need a damage buff on its AA chain, and we shouldn’t be aiming to powercreep other builds/professions to try and offset the demand for boons.

We don’t need direct buffs on anything else to minimize the impact boons have, nor strictly nerfing boons so much as we need nerfed boon access to make having maxed boons all the time nigh impossible to do for an entire group.

The boonshare is one of the component of the issue that is the current situation of boons in WvW.

Powerful boons that were requiring a good synchronization between players to get a solid duration at key moments of a fight are since HoT boons that organized groups do not even have to think about to permanently stack.

This games combat system needs far more, than just only a nerf to resistance and damagign conditions to get finalyl back on the path, where fights make fun, because of this game not being regardless if now 1v1 or 5v5 or 50v50 one single pest of an either Condition or Hard CC spamfest , where everyone and their mum deals for this games base health system currently way too much damage, because the state of that system is still from freaking 2012, where all the powercreep that we hasve now didn’t exist, because that current Health System was from begin on NEVER designed for this high damage dealing.

Many systems of this games Combat System need a complete rework by not to be brought all in line together os that all systems that do play a big role in the overall combat system and that belong to Class Balance should get once and for all get synchronized in balance, so that everything works finalyl as intended hand in hand in this games combat system.

This games cobmat system is currently so out of control, as if multiple devs wozld be workign each on their own on solutions and nobody of them knows, what the others do. ANet brought over the last years some tries how to fix balance, but each time they tried it, they made thigns even much worser, becuase these tries were never anythign really proper and impactful to brign the several sub systems of the combat system together in line and that without that the changes screw up as kind of collateral damage the other game modes, because anet couldnt come up until today with finally the desicisoon to balance all 3 game modes individually to prevent such collateral damages they caused with certain patches for other game modes, where the intention was just to fix somethign for Pvp as usual and the result was, it screwed up somethign for PvRE, or WvW, or both in the worst case…

There are basically 10 impactful important and fundamental steps that need to be made to brign this game back to sanity in regard of game balance:

1: Balance all 3 Game Modes individually, no shared Skill/Trait Effects anymore.
2: Balance all Classes finally in regard of their Base Health individually.
3: Fix finally Toughness and make it significantly reduce Direct Damage and the Duration of incoming Conditions.
4: Make Vitality finally a worthful defensive Attribute, so that you can see also a significant difference between a high Vitality build and a non Vitality Build.
+10 HP per Vit Point is laughable. Increase it to 20 or 25 and now we are speaking of a good Vitality Attribute where a high Vitality build will have significantly more Health, than a low vitality build of the same Class Build. Merge it also with Healing Power.
5: Add as new defensive Attributes Courage & Agility, so that Weakness and Vigor can get either removed or redesigned (turn Weakness rather into a direct counter to Might – reduces Power/Condition Damage per Stack for example)
6: Rebalance all Runes, Sigils and Gemstones, add Jeweler 500 to make ascended Versions of these things to unlock them this way as accountbound permanent upgrades for fionally addign a Build Template System to PvE/WvW similar to the System how PvPrs can freely and costfree change their builds in the PvP lobby – if you want that as well for PvE/wvW, players have to unlock the effects for their build temples system for their accoutn through crafting/receiving ascended versions of their Runes ect. – thids way would become Jeweler 500 instantly a very valuable craftign job again with you becomign able to sell other players ascended upgrades for their Build Templates and because you need them only once, they will be very valuable for you to sell, this way will become also mostly all other worthless runes alot more valuable if the exotic versions are required to make the ascended unlockers for the BTS
7: Rework the Boon and Condition System, merge what fits together, the game has currently way too much Boons and Conditions, it would be very good, for the game Balance, as like for the Game performance overall, if ANet could cut both sides down in half basically. WOuld make the Combat System also again alot more overviewable.
8: Rework the Hard Crowd Control System and implement finally a protection agaist permanent Stunlocking. Easiest and best way would be to integrate fully the Break Bar System into the Combat System, this way would need tob get reworked only the functionality of Stun Breakers and Stability, while players are then finally not completelyx defensless anymore when getting their bars broken, you can stil ldefend yourself, but if your Break Bar reaches 0, then you will get “shocked/traumatized/stunned/fatigued” – call it what you want, but in this state you will take more damage than usual, until the player is able to repair the Break Bar.
Whatevr or however you do it Anet – just do finally something agaisnt the Hard CC spamming, this and Condi Spam are the most annoying thigns, which basically completely destroy the fun of this game’s combat system completely alone because just these two thigns are totally out of control right now since 23rd June of 2015 and HoT made it only much worser instead of doing something againstt the massive imbalances that the June Patch of 2015 created.
9: Rebalance and Rework the complete underwater Combat System and give Underwater SKilsl for all Classes their own individual Underwater Traits.
make also sure, that no Class has anymore any SKilsl, which don’t work underwater.
Any Skil lthat you aren#t able to rework, so that it can work also underwater has to be replaced immediately with a complete new Skill, which is from scratch designed new to work everywhere!! This includes everything, healing, utility, elite skills without exceptions.
10: Tone down the Power Creep from specific Elite Specializations like Chronomancer, Tempest and Reaper (a coincedence that it are just the Scholars?, I doubt so) and make sure, that the Elite Specializartions aren’t so overpowered, that playing them pretty much becomes a “must” to stay viable and competitive in this game. They were designed to be “build alternatives,” , not build metas.

If these 10 steps happen, then will make the combats in this game again fundamentally more fun for everyone, I guarantee you that!! Nad that in every game mode, most likely simply due to just point 1 alone

Sorry, I think I’m missing something. How do revenants give their team resistance? I thought their’s was a purely selfish application. Or if it is only selfish application, how do mesmers share it?

Pain absorption spreads resistances to your party. If you have one rev casting that with the boom duration facet, runes of durability, correct armor, etc it’s a decent application.

The Mesmer then use a combo which entails casting a phantasm which is traited to cast signet of inspiration which copies the boons, then the Mesmer itself casts the signet. All this is done during continum shift, so the combo happens twice equating to 4 copies.

This shouldn’t be a cry for nerfing mesmers though, they aren’t alone to blame. It’s a combination power creep in all classes. Boom duration as a stat affects so many skills and traits in the game it’s just mind boggling on how to balance it all.

Edit: fixing autocorrect

Boon share mesmers are not a problem. The same boon stacking can be achieved by camping malyx, you only give up perma quickness in return for better boon strip immunity. The only reason to run boon share is to open up heralds to spam dwarf rite which is not as big a problem as it used to be. Running such tight builds are their own weakness as a more versatile group can focus key elements down while keeping a greater degree of freedom.