Guild Wars 2

Stand The Wall.6987:

Aeolus.3615:

@op would u like to make the game unplayable? that is what ur wishing

Reading just the title of a post is not going to give you adequate info on what the post is about.

I know but to increase aoe cap on “true aoe skills” u need to reduce on other skills, has i have been saying, the game has to many aoe and cleaves, would take out most of the cleaves of the game, maybe that way they would make some space for more classes being trully aoe, larger meteor storm, blizards skills like that would be interesting.
still 20 would be to much, but 10-12(with trait).

Aeolus.3615:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Aeolus.3615:

@op would u like to make the game unplayable? that is what ur wishing

Reading just the title of a post is not going to give you adequate info on what the post is about.

I know but to increase aoe cap on “true aoe skills” u need to reduce on other skills.

No.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Aeolus.3615:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Aeolus.3615:

@op would u like to make the game unplayable? that is what ur wishing

Reading just the title of a post is not going to give you adequate info on what the post is about.

I know but to increase aoe cap on “true aoe skills” u need to reduce on other skills.

No.

oh then no as well to you sir, since servers cant handle that many calculations and botlenecks the clients even more.
And if this was possible why being carried by suchs spam? wich is already what the game is.

Aeolus.3615:

I know but to increase aoe cap on “true aoe skills” u need to reduce on other skills.

None of this makes sense, and you continue to not read the entire post.
1. increasing cap = skills hitting less targets
2. true aoe skills = wat
3. need to reduce other skills = why

Stand The Wall.6987:

Aeolus.3615:

I know but to increase aoe cap on “true aoe skills” u need to reduce on other skills.

None of this makes sense, and you continue to not read the entire post.
1. increasing cap = skills hitting less targets
2. true aoe skills = wat
3. need to reduce other skills = why

I have readed it, what would happen is that players would stack only aoe classes more than ever to try to spike faster than enemy group can spike, abit with what we already have but on steroids, it would be even worse what we have now with alot of mindless spam, wvw fights would be even worse, alto of skills would loose their meaning liek wall of reflections domes, rangers etc… due how easy aoe would become.

i as well played game with no aoe cap, but those game had diferent mechanics, in gw2 its defirent it is a action mmorpg not a traditional, and here it is easy to be carried by damage, HoT specs are broken because they were designed for pve where no brains are needed, and dont forget spvp, and the other more wich i cant reccall the name, where aoe is as well what is most important, increase to 20 targets would make it really bad.

As in true aoe skills, since u had less aoe/cleaves that would make the aoe real important and players would have actually not to waste them every time skills is not in CD, some classes could even become better in those roles with a few weapon tweaks.

Atm if u notice one class can deal with 3 others due the existence of most weapons are cleaves it will damage the 3 targets in withing the same damage ( offcourse some classes have more then others while others barelly have cleaves to have more aoe) this is already the one of the issues, that is what PVE design is conflicting with the pvp part of the game and its not helpign the gameplay at all.
If u had less cleaves and less but stronger aoe spells players would had to quit the train or even if the train exist would be completelly diferent and would require more target analysis, know what u need to atack, instead smash buttons to spam all aoe here.

It would be worse overall for the game, since players dont change.
IMO what is needed are changes that creates better players and less players used to be carried by the pve mechanics (wich is why other gamemodes are sufering or look/feel imbalanced).

(EDIT) those 5 elementalist could not do a thing since the enemy zerg would have like alot of aoe classes and tons of skills that cleave, if they split, they would get cought asap witough problem, if they stack, would had the same result.

And sorry for the bad english.

Aeolus.3615:

(EDIT) those 5 elementalist could not do a thing since the enemy zerg would have like alot of aoe classes and tons of skills that cleave, if they split, they would get cought asap witough problem, if they stack, would had the same result.

And sorry for the bad english.

Check video I posted here

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Why-players-zerg-and-why-it-will-not-go-away/first#post6472179

Gw2 isnt daoc :\ i played daoc as well, altough not much as i wanted at that time.

Still in gw2 the enemy eles would eat up your 5-8 eles/aoe classes as well, since gw2 isnt daoc, you could not cant stand all the aoe hitting you as well, what would happen would be, yous guys cast 1 or 2 skills, dodge dodge and go down, reason allmost all cleave skills had to go, within that trade, so theres less “splash damage” from cleave and that could give a chance for the 5-8 aoe classes to kite.

(note)
Still we need to talk with what we have toi play not with the IF’s game did this or that, we need to discuss what can be done to achieve a good AOE skill cap(wich i assume what is the topic about), with the current system/game were playing.

Aeolus.3615:

Gw2 isnt daoc :\ i played daoc as well, altough not much as i wanted at that time.

Still in gw2 the enemy eles would eat up your 5-8 eles/aoe classes as well, since gw2 isnt daoc, you could not cant stand all the aoe hitting you as well, what would happen would be, yous guys cast 1 or 2 skills, dodge dodge and go down, reason allmost all cleave skills had to go, within that trade, so theres less “splash damage” from cleave and that could give a chance for the 5-8 aoe classes to kite.

(note)
Still we need to talk with what we have toi play not with the IF’s game did this or that, we need to discuss what can be done to achieve a good AOE skill cap(wich i assume what is the topic about), with the current system/game were playing.

Whatever the solution, it will be open for abuse/exploits/nervous breakdowns, just like any other MMO. Anet could, for example, make that if enemy has 80 people in zone, and you have 10, make that your AOE hit 8 people, and theirs hit just one

But I’d expect people be VERY angry at afk-ers in their own team

Another good incentive to NOT zerg in DAOC was reward system…you would get rewarded based on amount of damage your group of 8 did (so zerging was VERY inneffective for realm points gain, and mostly used by either unskilled people, or during relic raids).

Nikola.3841:

Another good incentive to NOT zerg in DAOC was reward system…you would get rewarded based on amount of damage your group of 8 did (so zerging was VERY inneffective for realm points gain, and mostly used by either unskilled people, or during relic raids).

I think this will be the only/best way to actually manage this. Make it Risk/Reward, be rewarded by taking more risk.

Other than that, I expect another problem with removing the AoE cap, is that a lareg group is the best application of AOE. So if the large group gets to fire off, then they will wipe any smaller groups so fast, they likely won’t be able to dodge more than once.

Likely it would turn into who shoots first scenario. So sure organized groups with voicecom etc, combo with stealth, would have an advantage. So what happens when the map blob does the same ? Gets everyone into TS, organize stealth and bombs the same way ? How do you respond to a map blob of 60+ doing this ?

joneirikb.7506:

Likely it would turn into who shoots first scenario. So sure organized groups with voicecom etc, combo with stealth, would have an advantage. So what happens when the map blob does the same ? Gets everyone into TS, organize stealth and bombs the same way ? How do you respond to a map blob of 60+ doing this ?

You bend over and take it.

Anything that can be utilized by a small group, can (and will) be utilized by a large group and have more effect.

Aeolus.3615:

snipples

Sorry I thought in my original post there was something saying that all classes would have their aoe capabilities buffed. Added an edit. I think some skills would become less powerful yes, but if all classes had their skills buffed then things would be ok. What we have right now is horrid, everything is favoring the zerg. If people had to suddenly think about dying to smaller groups then they would either adapt or leave. Removing aoe caps on skills would make the ideal group size no bigger then 20 or so.

Aoe is the most important thing for wvw, while pve and pvp its the exact opposite.

Well cleaves would get a buff. People not spamming their skills off cd? Sounds good.

Players would adapt, and if they couldn’t then they would leave. That would open up space for someone else who valued organization and coordination over zerging. The current state of wvw has way too much forgiveness and fairness for zergs, and smaller aoes/cleaves makes server population the most important factor. Population imbalance is the biggest problem for wvw.

What sorts of changes would you like to see? Also what do you mean by players being carried by pve mechanics?

5 eles would destroy a zerg if specced for damage. 5 meteor showers hitting 20 people per meteor at 5k per hit? Forget about it. Of course, assume retal and lag weren’t a problem.

Don’t worry about your English, I understood most of what you were trying to say, I think. ;)

joneirikb.7506:

Nikola.3841:

Another good incentive to NOT zerg in DAOC was reward system…you would get rewarded based on amount of damage your group of 8 did (so zerging was VERY inneffective for realm points gain, and mostly used by either unskilled people, or during relic raids).

I think this will be the only/best way to actually manage this. Make it Risk/Reward, be rewarded by taking more risk.

Other than that, I expect another problem with removing the AoE cap, is that a lareg group is the best application of AOE. So if the large group gets to fire off, then they will wipe any smaller groups so fast, they likely won’t be able to dodge more than once.

Likely it would turn into who shoots first scenario. So sure organized groups with voicecom etc, combo with stealth, would have an advantage. So what happens when the map blob does the same ? Gets everyone into TS, organize stealth and bombs the same way ? How do you respond to a map blob of 60+ doing this ?

The risk/reward system in DAoC sounds good.

I think you are underestimating the power a smaller group, or even one person could have. Sure a larger group means more aoes, but consider this example, assume lag and retal aren’t a problem, and that all skills have their aoe capabilities buffed. So for sake of example, big cds have smaller caps then quicker cd skills (focus 5, mace 3, ham 3 hit 20 people, mace 2, ham 2 hit 10, the same as cleave).

Group of 5 with 2 dragonhunters spots a zerg of 60, decide that they will execute a very specific combo using all of their cds. Combo is as follows:
Focus 5 + mace 2 + Shield of courage (stab trait) + JI + trap + resolve immob + mace 3 + dodge + weapon swap
Hammer 5 + dodge + 2 + justice pull + renewed invuln + courage + resolve + justice + ham 2 + merciful port out + ham 3

Dragonhunter 2 does the same rotation, and the 3 other team members have enough time to fire off all of their skills and down the group. Of course one could come up with combos like this for any sort of team composition, and of course a good necro on the enemy team would make quick work of this particular combo. That’s what makes big risk plays fun! The enemy being better then you think they are!

Your first shot doesn’t matter if it fails! This would make the race to the top be who can be more organized, not who can stack the bigger numbers! THIS IS WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT PEOPLE1111 Remember the 300!

If zergs could actually get that organized, and that’s a huuuuuge if, then good. Other smaller groups would have to get better and change their tactics.

tldr
The idea of smaller aoe caps means no matter how outnumbered you are, you can win if you are organized, skilled, and determined. Just like the 300 Spartans who held off an entire Persian army. People naturally ball up to tackle a particular task, be it an objective or a bigger force. Smaller groups would make the size of the zerg dynamic, instead of static. Would people who refuse to adapt leave the game? Without a doubt. Would people who saw gameplay of a group of 5 taking down 10 times their numbers draw in a ton more? Without a doubt.

that is where i disagree, buffing would not make it like 300, :} since the 300 spartans had mad skill and were not being carried by aoe spaw :P, and thus were i believe more single target game(skills) would make better player survive and kill instead of having bad players performing gimmick rotation to try to win, wich is actually what gw2 is a litle bit atm.

Still i do agree with increasing the aoe cap of aoe classes.

Aeolus.3615:

that is where i disagree, buffing would not make it like 300, :} since the 300 spartans had mad skill and were not being carried by aoe spaw :P, and thus were i believe more single target game(skills) would make better player survive and kill instead of having bad players performing gimmick rotation to try to win, wich is actually what gw2 is a litle bit atm.

Still i do agree with increasing the aoe cap of aoe classes.

Well no lol that was a metaphor. The metaphor works because like real combat where if you make one mistake youre dead, decreasing the aoe cap achieves the same. Single target skills have their place, just as aoe skills do. What happens when you make aoe skills hit less people is that numbers matter more then skill. Bad players perform gimmick rotation? So a group of 5 using a complex rotation where all of their cooldowns are used, that takes perfect timing and execution to master, that changes the moment they face a more competent enemy, is a bad gimmick? No, its called skill, and the opposite is what wvw is a little bit atm.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Aeolus.3615:

that is where i disagree, buffing would not make it like 300, :} since the 300 spartans had mad skill and were not being carried by aoe spaw :P, and thus were i believe more single target game(skills) would make better player survive and kill instead of having bad players performing gimmick rotation to try to win, wich is actually what gw2 is a litle bit atm.

Still i do agree with increasing the aoe cap of aoe classes.

Well no lol that was a metaphor. The metaphor works because like real combat where if you make one mistake youre dead, decreasing the aoe cap achieves the same. Single target skills have their place, just as aoe skills do. What happens when you make aoe skills hit less people is that numbers matter more then skill. Bad players perform gimmick rotation? So a group of 5 using a complex rotation where all of their cooldowns are used, that takes perfect timing and execution to master, that changes the moment they face a more competent enemy, is a bad gimmick? No, its called skill, and the opposite is what wvw is a little bit atm.

But that would make the game only aoe…. that would be awfull the part of having already tons of cleaves and aoe is what is disturbing the game lack of balance outside pve.

And ^^ i dont feel the “complexty rotation” , that for me is just press buttons this order, i dont see it as in player skill, and can u imagine all fight would be like who presses best order of keys…?
Remind the old echo invokers 4 ele team on Team Arenas, that wasnt being skilled, it just worked well when spiking targets due damage and crit, or when runing several echo invokers in AB.

Did u play Gw1?
If so remmember the coms we needed to get good?
Even meta builds could not be played by every one if u dont had a bit of skill on the game, still targets had to be called, ganks had to called every thing was made in team play, the interrupts by mesmers and rangers that was being skilled,, every one had its targets designed and was need to adapt to the batlefield instead of stack to to press butons in a order and be punished if fail, that imo is far from being skilled gameplay.

This is the gw2 issue , classes were built for a dumb pve they dont even need to see what target they are hitting…since cleave + damage stacking do the work.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleave

I would remove cleave mainly from autos and some skills, players need to learn instead of spam what and how to atack/engage, or could reduce the cleaved damage to avoid people getting carried by that, only fully aoe combos could do what ur asking, still i dont see it as much as player side skill.

The Spartan blades werent AOE either XD, and didnt cleave that much.
If u had to much aoe it will be a blender machine not the spartan movie feeling :], for that warrior shield had to protec targets behidn the warrior as well wich actually some mmos have that mechanic and warrior rotate shield wall lie the romans and spartans did, and classes had to be more determined roles.

Aeolus.3615:

But that would make the game only aoe…. that would be awfull the part of having already tons of cleaves and aoe is what is disturbing the game lack of balance outside pve.

And ^^ i dont feel the “complexty rotation” , that for me is just press buttons this order, i dont see it as in player skill, and can u imagine all fight would be like who presses best order of keys…?

About player skill means, there alot of several things to take into account when talking about skill, besides “press butons this way —>”.

This is the gw2 issue , classes were built for a dumb pve they dont even need to see what target they are hitting…since cleave + damage stacking do the work.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleave

I would remove cleave mainly from autos and some skills, players need to learn instead of spam what and how to atack/engage, or could reduce the cleaved damage to avoid people getting carried by that, only fully aoe combos could do what ur asking, still i dont see it as much as player side skill.

The Spartan blades werent AOE either XD, and didnt cleave that much.

Alright, I get your point about cleave and aoe being too much. It would be. Getting rid of cleave and forcing autos + some skills to hit only 1 person makes sense to me.

Uh, isn’t competitive gaming all about who can press what the fastest and in the best order? I agree there should be more then that for wvw, and there is. Objectives and siege, as well as groups being coordinated and commanders making the right calls.

If the only change was to remove cleave, do you think that would completely change wvw? I think people would think about using the third person reticle more.

They should remove or expand the cap when they remove 99% of the AoE spam. I would bet a big regret of the design team is building in too much AoE. It frags server performance, greatly limits the size of player fights, generates mostly unskilled play and reduces group dynamics since AoE is the best DPS in the game even with a 5 cap so groups basically have to roll with it to be effective.

There should have only been 1 or 2 AoE skills mostly elite skills on most classes and they should have been treated as class defining skills. Had they done that Anet would have likely doubled or more the performance of large scale game play.

Straegen.2938:

They should remove or expand the cap when they remove 99% of the AoE spam. I would bet a big regret of the design team is building in too much AoE. It frags server performance, greatly limits the size of player fights, generates mostly unskilled play and reduces group dynamics since AoE is the best DPS in the game even with a 5 cap so groups basically have to roll with it to be effective.

There should have only been 1 or 2 AoE skills mostly elite skills on most classes and they should have been treated as class defining skills. Had they done that Anet would have likely doubled or more the performance of large scale game play.

Can’t argue with that. What if the last skill on each weapon skill bar was treated as “elite”, meaning it could potentially hit tons of people? That combined with actual elites would be a huge thing. Also, Swagger mentioned revamping the support system, which I agree with now that I’ve thought about it. Maybe disable the ability to give boons/blast combo fields/heal people that aren’t in your party?

I think so, players would had to call out X class/team need to search for Y classes more players would have to pay atention to whom they are atacking and whom are atacking back(more visual game and teamplay ), more like paper, rocks, scizor instead of stack for damage output spikes at range, or keep pressing 1,1,1,1,2,3,4,5 while u keep your eyes at the driver, wich is a meh.. weak concept of combat and that leaded to this staleness.
And for sure people would cry less about op classes for sure, since when ur not the target of the atacker u just eat the damage just because ur near the guy that it is beign atacked lol…and when we talk about damage its in both melee and conditions.

The range fights would have another way to be played since 1 cannot rush into the other group expecting to hurt with cleave some players but several players would gank him, players as in teams would have to play with call targts while following the commander/driver, we could see more variety of builds besides aoe staking and durability rune hordes, maybe player would have to get organized in very diferent ways, and aoe classes would be very valuable but still dependable from the other groups, maybe even conditions would become balanced since it is easy to kill players that even have condi cleanses, sicne they are getting condition for all targets being atacked nearby.

Groups could start figthing at range first but then would start calling targets or starting to notice other teams roles on the other side, since rush a group would not be a clever thing if they had good aoe support or decent players they would get eaten by the aoe call, still if the aoe cap would be increased a bit and maybe some aoe skills could have their ranged increase that could pressure in the way some player wanted to pressure larger groups.

Wonder as well if game would lag less….since has much less calculation and animation to distributa data do the clients.

@Stand The Wall.6987 that would be interesting, at least for some classes or some weapons really makes sense, still would require some bit of heavy CD, and completelly agree with the blasts and combos.

Straegen.2938:

They should remove or expand the cap when they remove 99% of the AoE spam. I would bet a big regret of the design team is building in too much AoE. It frags server performance, greatly limits the size of player fights, generates mostly unskilled play and reduces group dynamics since AoE is the best DPS in the game even with a 5 cap so groups basically have to roll with it to be effective.

There should have only been 1 or 2 AoE skills mostly elite skills on most classes and they should have been treated as class defining skills. Had they done that Anet would have likely doubled or more the performance of large scale game play.

I don’t know, I think that AoE attacks, like everything else, are best when they are diversified. It could be good mechanic wise if AoE skills were reduced to allow 1 or 2 classes to have huge access to relatively weak AoE skills. Their strength would be in pressuring lots of players at once, but they wouldn’t have enough individual pressure to kill anyone paying attention. Diversity is always good.

Aeolus.3615:

that is where i disagree, buffing would not make it like 300, :} since the 300 spartans had mad skill and were not being carried by aoe spaw :P, and thus were i believe more single target game(skills) would make better player survive and kill instead of having bad players performing gimmick rotation to try to win, wich is actually what gw2 is a litle bit atm.

Still i do agree with increasing the aoe cap of aoe classes.

Thats why both AOE and DD skills in DAOC had their place…skilled 8vs8 combat was almost solely based on DDs, while group still had chance against zergs because single mezz spell would make whole zerg “zzz”, then your casters would just AOE them to the ground

Added bonus was “deathspam”, people could see in chat log who killed whom, even made creative names to add to the fun, like

……. was killed by Hisowngrp

……. was killed by Overextending

……. was killed by Youcankeepthearrow

It was VERY good way to make game more social

Nikola.3841:

Aeolus.3615:

that is where i disagree, buffing would not make it like 300, :} since the 300 spartans had mad skill and were not being carried by aoe spaw :P, and thus were i believe more single target game(skills) would make better player survive and kill instead of having bad players performing gimmick rotation to try to win, wich is actually what gw2 is a litle bit atm.

Still i do agree with increasing the aoe cap of aoe classes.

Thats why both AOE and DD skills in DAOC had their place…skilled 8vs8 combat was almost solely based on DDs, while group still had chance against zergs because single mezz spell would make whole zerg “zzz”, then your casters would just AOE them to the ground

Added bonus was “deathspam”, people could see in chat log who killed whom, even made creative names to add to the fun, like

……. was killed by Hisowngrp

……. was killed by Overextending

……. was killed by Youcankeepthearrow

It was VERY good way to make game more social

Still gw2 isnt Daoc, u dont have the same sustain, the same healers, its diferent, no groups could sustain aoe bomb in gw2, would result the smaller group loosing always, u need to think how squishy every is in gw2 even bunkers(sturdiers builds) melt here…

Btw bombing with mesmer does a similiar job already, tghere are some skills that when stacked and bombed in one place will take larger groups, still need alot of mesmers for that.

Are any of you OPs’ actually daily WvWers?

Maybe just casual players who stepped into WvW once, twice, or are returning to the game after 3-years?

This thread is absolutely ridiculous, what is wrong with the 5-cap target that’s currently in place? Are you having a hard time generating downs or winning fights in general?

Are you a member of a small roaming / havok group in WvW or something trying to really “5v50”? That ludicrous .

The game mode is currently designed to favor defensive PPT play coupled with seizing objectives, to claim them for your server. Somewhere in between is where you’ll find roamers, havok groups, and large squads.

If you want larger AOE caps hop on an arrow cart, catapult, cannon, mortar, or trebuchet. Those have larger AOE caps by design to allow defensive forces to push back larger forces.

Remove cap but don’t whine about skill lag. Thank you.

This game already have enuff aoe’s though.

Aeolus.3615:

Btw bombing with mesmer does a similiar job already, tghere are some skills that when stacked and bombed in one place will take larger groups, still need alot of mesmers for that.

Imagine Gravity Well bombs without AoE cap… The ammount of tears would flood Tyria.

OriOri.8724:

I don’t know, I think that AoE attacks, like everything else, are best when they are diversified. It could be good mechanic wise if AoE skills were reduced to allow 1 or 2 classes to have huge access to relatively weak AoE skills. Their strength would be in pressuring lots of players at once, but they wouldn’t have enough individual pressure to kill anyone paying attention. Diversity is always good.

AoE should be an anti-stacking measure. Problem is ANet made it spam-able and overly effective even with the cap. The current design limits diversity (everyone needs to have the nukes), creates an enormous calculation load on a server and forces ANet to cap AoE because of those problems.

Had AoE been on long cool downs and designed to be special class defining attacks, their game engine would perform immensely better, visual clutter would be massively improved and AoE would be more strategically relevant. Today AoE is just another rotation skill in many zerg builds rather than a tactic used by organized groups to destroy stacked enemies.

AoE in this game was a fundamental mistake and I very much believe if there is a GW3 with WvW a mistake ANet will rectify.

Jeknar.6184:

Aeolus.3615:

Btw bombing with mesmer does a similiar job already, tghere are some skills that when stacked and bombed in one place will take larger groups, still need alot of mesmers for that.

Imagine Gravity Well bombs without AoE cap… The ammount of tears would flood Tyria.

my guild last a year did a full mesmer group…the drivers asked to us to bomb a larger groups with that…
every one stacked the bombing… in like what… 2 seconds the whole group was wiped, all was left was a few straglers that were not stacked, its was about 20 gravity wells stacked with another 10-15 null fields straith after the elite skills in one place….

Besides, mass invisibility with all mesmers spamming portals in all directions makes large groups fleeing as well :|

OP, we all know the wvw servers are limited in cpu calculations and network activity. Of course I don’t know the specific numbers but it would be safe to say that for each AoE limit increase from 5 the requirements grow exponentially (faster and faster). And I’d estimate it’s upwards of 50% increase in both required CPU power and network traffic per player limit increase.
Now you know why this request is crazy. Skill lag and network delay lag abound.

If 10 eles could melt a 40 ppl zerg, I don´t wonder what a 40 ppl zerg could do to a 20 players… moreover, people talk about retaliation, Even funnier when triggering runes or traits that inflict conditions when being hit…

This also would bring back eternal funnel fights where zergs slowly lose stupid players who tried to emule Leroy Jenkins.

To introduce such change in game there should be taken into consideration multiple factor to avoid ruining game even more.

Peazomanco.7259:

If 10 eles could melt a 40 ppl zerg, I don´t wonder what a 40 ppl zerg could do to a 20 players… moreover, people talk about retaliation, Even funnier when triggering runes or traits that inflict conditions when being hit…

This also would bring back eternal funnel fights where zergs slowly lose stupid players who tried to emule Leroy Jenkins.

To introduce such change in game there should be taken into consideration multiple factor to avoid ruining game even more.

Thats why I mention DAOC now and then, not as idea WHAT to do in GW2, but to point out that you can have fun game for everyone…both zergs and 8 player groups.
8-man setup would find it almost impossible to kill two similar enemy 8-man setups, but it will have no problem to kill 100 who rely solely on their numbers, and that is the point.

As it is now, only way to make it even remotely fair in GW2 would be in case where all 3 sides have all maps queued

Straegen.2938:

snipples

I really like your idea. Tying aoe to a specific elite class utility skill makes a lot of sense. I would argue for an elite type weapon skill as well. Along with changing support and boons so that they only effect people in your party, as well as eliminating cleave and other multi-hitting skills, server lag would be drastically reduced while giving smaller groups the chance to take on bigger ones.

Straegen.2938:

OriOri.8724:

I don’t know, I think that AoE attacks, like everything else, are best when they are diversified. It could be good mechanic wise if AoE skills were reduced to allow 1 or 2 classes to have huge access to relatively weak AoE skills. Their strength would be in pressuring lots of players at once, but they wouldn’t have enough individual pressure to kill anyone paying attention. Diversity is always good.

AoE should be an anti-stacking measure. Problem is ANet made it spam-able and overly effective even with the cap. The current design limits diversity (everyone needs to have the nukes), creates an enormous calculation load on a server and forces ANet to cap AoE because of those problems.

Had AoE been on long cool downs and designed to be special class defining attacks, their game engine would perform immensely better, visual clutter would be massively improved and AoE would be more strategically relevant. Today AoE is just another rotation skill in many zerg builds rather than a tactic used by organized groups to destroy stacked enemies.

AoE in this game was a fundamental mistake and I very much believe if there is a GW3 with WvW a mistake ANet will rectify.

This is true, however I think we’re too far invested in the current way the game is setup to redo AoEs like this. We can reduce the amount of AoEs in the game sure, but I don’t think we could ever healthily get down to this few AoEs.

This is communist type of game, you have to stop thinking as individual and work for The Collective! Be drone in a hive mind!