Guild Wars 2

Skip to nine minutes, watch then read below.

So people who aren’t actually bothered to click that link. There’s an upgrade for Stone Mist castle in the Eternal Battlegrounds that allows an unlimited amount of players to enter a fountain and gain 2 mins of stealth.

In other words after the update, we’re going to be having blobs of 80 people who will be able to stealth themselves for 2 mins at a time, with a 2min cool down before you can re-enter the fountain and regain stealth. (all explained in the video)

Why…? Why would this be a good idea? Am I alone on this? Does anyone come to wvw for some player action? Why would the ability to stealth an entire zerg be enjoyable to anyone? Whats the point of being able to use skills if an entire zerg can just move to any part of the map undetected without the need to use any skills or get in any fights?

Are the majority of you guys on here in WvW to karma train and avoid other zergs/players whenever possible? All iv got to say is that I WvW to fight players. I will personally never find any enjoyment at being zerged down by a stealth-ed blob, or stealthing myself so i can move about the map Unchallenged. Either way I avoid a fight, and that’s not why I personally come to WvW.

I don’t know, thoughts?

Time to buy stealth traps in bulk.

And play classes that have stealth reveal tools.

Or upgrade your arrow cart WvW points to max to get that “reveal stealth” ability.

Why does Anet do half the things they do for WvW?

I think it’s a number of factors:

1. They love cheese; like stealth, Golems, falling to your death, ambient creatures, etc.
2. They don’t really know what to do with WvW.
3. Therefore in their minds, the more cheese the better.

I was shocked to see that as well, simply wow. It’s like they don’t listen to the community at all, or they listen to those players (streamers etc) who were also invited to test the new map first (half of which are not even true wvw players).

If any dev is reading this, please please please make some kind of effort to get the real feedback from people who play your game almost exclusively for WvW.

Doug.4930:

SM Mass stealth Fountain. Why Anet why?

Because post after post, in thread after thread, posters aimlessly complain and demand a change. Yet the vast majority offer no reasonable suggestion or idea as to what kind of change. When posters repeatedly demand changes and offer repeated complaints about what they have now, they get a change. It is the old, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

It’s a monumentally bad idea. I can’t imagine anyone who’s played WvW for 6 months or more, other than trolls, thinking this is a good idea and what the paying customers want. If our EB-centric commanders don’t like the new maps, I can see more than one of them refusing to tag up, and quite possibly leaving the game altogether.

I don’t know, it could lead to quite interesting situation.

Keep in mind that it is only 2 minutes AND it breaks as soon as you attack. Which means that it can basically only be used for surprise defense. Something that is already fully possible with a bunch of mesmers and dark-fields.

Since SM lies central, 2 minutes should be long enough to go nearly everyhwere.

Also you will have dozens of ganking groups running around perma stealthed oneshotting everyone who dares to exit their spawn alone.

I’m not playing much on EB, anyway, but seems like i just will pretend that map doesn’t exist once HoT hits.

Great…..just great…jus what the game needs more of, stealth. Especially in WvW because it’s not like we have enough of it as it is! Least it’s only on EB, I usually stay in the borderlands, but still….this is just dumb.

For the love of Grenth just make it a boon already and reveal a condition.

We complain about arrowcarts, they buff their damage.
We complain about dps overwhelming defense, they buff dps.
We complain about stealth, they buff stealth and give us more of it.

Come on, you cant say they arent consistent.

I think people are freaking out about this before even trying it.

Think about how many times SM flips in a given day.

Go on a map and count to 120 and run from SM (yes you can get pretty far), but remember if you’re tagged with AOE (or just tagged period), you become visible and you can’t instantly go back into invis mode right then and there.

Entire invisible zerg is terrifying, yes. But I think it will be easier to counter than folks think.

Get tagged ONCE and suddenly visible? Time to yank out those fully mastered ACs if your class doesn’t have any stealth reveal (and think about how many players get tagged under AC aoe). Time to place stealth traps randomly over choke points. And the minute they even tap a gate, they magically appear (any combat removes the invis — think about normal blob groups, how many stop to attack a sentry, or a dolly, or a butterfly along the way? That will lead to a very visible tail and will likely only be able to be successfully employed by more disciplined guilds/blobs — but the minute they tap the gate … ).

Don’t panic.

At least not yet.

Dawdler.8521:

We complain about arrowcarts, they buff their damage.
We complain about dps overwhelming defense, they buff dps.
We complain about stealth, they buff stealth and give us more of it.

Come on, you cant say they arent consistent.

Of course not.

They prove that they’re working for NCSoft.

Roaming to flip camps and deny supply is now pointless thanks to automatic upgrades.

Scouting is now pointless because entire zergs will run past in stealth.

Time to hop in the karma train and enjoy EoTM 2.0, now featuring Charr cars and Pact fleet bombardments!

…….sigh

Puck.9612:

Roaming to flip camps and deny supply is now pointless thanks to automatic upgrades.

Scouting is now pointless because entire zergs will run past in stealth.

Time to hop in the karma train and enjoy EoTM 2.0, now featuring Charr cars and Pact fleet bombardments!

…….sigh

I actually think it will make scouting more crucial, and response time/coordination more challenging. Good scouts will adapt to use tools to thwart. it means it will be crucial to have eyes everywhere, or at the very least monitor spawn.

Hrm, I wonder if they can stealth and jump maps?

I honestly think this is a step in the right direction. Right now the hardest to hold objective doesn’t feel powerful. All is provides is a few more points per tick and a waypoint (which is nice). I think they want SM to be a ‘power play’ objective meaning that controlling it (for an extended amount of time) gives your server a large advantage. Meaning servers won’t just flip it back and forth there will be some super important battles for the control of the ‘largest’ objective in the game. Also as people have pointed out there are several mechanics to reveal stealthed players most notably the reveal trap unique to WvW.

Jayne.9251:

I actually think it will make scouting more crucial, and response time/coordination more challenging. Good scouts will adapt to use tools to thwart. it means it will be crucial to have eyes everywhere, or at the very least monitor spawn.

Hrm, I wonder if they can stealth and jump maps?

Scouting won’t be crucial.

Even if you’ll follow 80 people blob into SM who will get stealthed, you have no idea where they will go, because you can’t see them.

What will you do next? Pop revealed on them?
I doubt you’ll manage to avoid all CCs and bombs from ~10 people.

Despite that, you won’t follow them anymore, and next scout won’t be so sure if those 10 are exactly the ones who are with the blob or not.

Pretty much, if that 2min stealth is true, then it means that Anet has plans to coffin nail Scouting in the future.

Jayne.9251:

Hrm, I wonder if they can stealth and jump maps?

I can’t imagine that being possible, or at least intended. WPing to your EB keep or spawn and retaining stealth however, may be intended.

Vendetta.1958:

Anet, please remove all keep and tower doors in WvW, they are an unnecessary obstacle between me and my loot, and I find it very frustrating when I actually have to work for my champ bag and karma.

That would be unfair, you would end up with solo roamers and small groups disrupting the karma train rotation. They just need to add a button in front of every tower and keep that opens the doors as long as you gather 40+ people.

Puck.9612:

Vendetta.1958:

Anet, please remove all keep and tower doors in WvW, they are an unnecessary obstacle between me and my loot, and I find it very frustrating when I actually have to work for my champ bag and karma.

That would be unfair, you would end up with solo roamers and small groups disrupting the karma train rotation. They just need to add a button in front of every tower and keep that opens the doors as long as you gather 40+ people.

Even better, you should be immediately teleported to your zerg upon entry into a given WvW map, and then apply a debuff if anyone strays from other players.

EG: If a ‘solo roamer’ as you call it, ports in and tries to leave the zerg, they get like 15 stacks of burn applied until they return.

That way, nobody gets ganked anymore, and we don’t have to add silly buttons to open the doors!

Another possible counter is the new tower upgrade that shows enemies on the map. If this works the same as the EotM sentry things I believe it shows invisible players (not on screen but on map/mini-map). Upgrading a tower to that upgrade is easier than upgrading SM to the invisible fountain.

Also @Puck and @Vendetta your sarcastic comments won’t accomplish anything but making you look immature, and defiantly won’t make ArenaNet consider your opinions any more important if anything less important.

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Another possible counter is the new tower upgrade that shows enemies on the map. If this works the same as the EotM sentry things I believe it shows invisible players (not on screen but on map/mini-map). Upgrading a tower to that upgrade is easier than upgrading SM to the invisible fountain.

Also @Puck and @Vendetta your sarcastic comments won’t accomplish anything but making you look immature, and defiantly won’t make ArenaNet consider your opinions any more important if anything less important.

It’s cute that you think anet cares or will actually read this thread.

It realy should not be that bad. You got to hold SM for a time to get it to work from what i understand. SM is aimed to be at the “top” of the map so giving your team easy deployment so unless they just let ppl in SM port in different places on the map such as underground paths or air drops when you hold sm stealth is a good alternative to this deployment.

Yeah, and who can hold SM the longest to get this? Stacked servers.

So yet again, the bigger server gets to utterly dominate smaller servers – but now while in a stealthed zerg of 80!

Vendetta.1958:

Yeah, and who can hold SM the longest to get this? Stacked servers.

So yet again, the bigger server gets to utterly dominate smaller servers – but now while in a stealthed zerg of 80!

If that the case then your already losing becuse of stacked servers not becuse of the stealth lol.

So we should allow larger servers to completely annihilate smaller servers with access to two minutes of stealth for an entire zerg?

Because they’re going to win anyway, and who really cares about having fun in WvW?

Dunno if the devs play pvp games themself, but they seem to love ot hide in stealth for some reason. Its getting more and more and more and why exactly?

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Another possible counter is the new tower upgrade that shows enemies on the map. If this works the same as the EotM sentry things I believe it shows invisible players (not on screen but on map/mini-map). Upgrading a tower to that upgrade is easier than upgrading SM to the invisible fountain.

Also @Puck and @Vendetta your sarcastic comments won’t accomplish anything but making you look immature, and defiantly won’t make ArenaNet consider your opinions any more important if anything less important.

What sarcasm? I’m being dead serious. If they are going to keep trying to turn the game into a karma farm for all of us PvE’rs why take baby steps to do it? Let’s just go all out.

Maybe we can get a new upgrade where if you activate a charr car while tagged up it will turn into a charr train and anyone that rides on it will spam auto attacks when they get near an enemy, automatically build any siege the commander drops, and pick up supply when the commander stops at a depot. The train will last as long their is a tag leading it, the commander can transfer command to anyone with a tag.

This would even help solve the balance problems since players could just log on at the beginning of the week, hop on the train and then forget about the game until next reset. You would just need a handful of people to keep the train running. My biggest hope is that as the train is chugging along the smoke from the engine spells out the word karma in really big letters, because sometimes it’s hard to spot the tag when a lot is going on.

Personally I am very offended that you thought my remarks were sarcastic.

The only reason I’d use the stealth fountain is if my guild wanted to stealth into the spawn of one of the opponents, so long as it wasn’t to attack the golems stored there.

I get it…..it’s to make stealth gyro TB skill needed.

A stealthed zerg is very trollable. Imagine a visible person amongst the invisibles …

Can you imagine the hostility and arguments this will cause?

Tao.5096:

Jayne.9251:

I actually think it will make scouting more crucial, and response time/coordination more challenging. Good scouts will adapt to use tools to thwart. it means it will be crucial to have eyes everywhere, or at the very least monitor spawn.

Hrm, I wonder if they can stealth and jump maps?

Scouting won’t be crucial.

Even if you’ll follow 80 people blob into SM who will get stealthed, you have no idea where they will go, because you can’t see them.

What will you do next? Pop revealed on them?
I doubt you’ll manage to avoid all CCs and bombs from ~10 people.

Despite that, you won’t follow them anymore, and next scout won’t be so sure if those 10 are exactly the ones who are with the blob or not.

Pretty much, if that 2min stealth is true, then it means that Anet has plans to coffin nail Scouting in the future.

You drop stealth traps at key choke points (think gate exits of SM, narrowed pathways/tunnels/caves), you keep your eye out for traps that have been triggered. You lay more than one after the other so that advance scouting guys don’t accidentally trigger the traps.

You max out your AC ability so that AC aoe reveals stealth. You fire at the dorks that stop to kill the sentry along the way and reveal them all in return. And there will always always ALWAYS be two or three randoms that go chasing after the invis blob and don’t stop to get the fountain stealth. Those will be your warning drones.

You play one of these classes that can reveal stealth: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed. This may finally make engi’s and rangers the new meta in WvW

Final bit: They magically poof outside your gate. If no scout is there, there’s no time to react. At all. Which makes having reliable scouts monitoring areas on map so crucial. It takes about 2.3 minutes to ram down a gate with five superior rams. That’s hardly enough time to call for help, but with enough hair-trigger reaction, they can come up the back end and wipe the blob. I think it will actually lead to more fights than before, and more epic last-minute saves. It just means more accurate and faster scouting and faster response. It’s doable.

But gone are the days of “oh look there’s white swords at Anza, I’ll take a run over and look.” You need scouts to be present and active and have established trust with commanders who know how to think and react quickly. It’ll take some adjustment. But the server with the better scouts will ultimately prevail.

It’s time to think outside the proverbial box.

Jayne.9251:

Tao.5096:

Jayne.9251:

I actually think it will make scouting more crucial, and response time/coordination more challenging. Good scouts will adapt to use tools to thwart. it means it will be crucial to have eyes everywhere, or at the very least monitor spawn.

Hrm, I wonder if they can stealth and jump maps?

Scouting won’t be crucial.

Even if you’ll follow 80 people blob into SM who will get stealthed, you have no idea where they will go, because you can’t see them.

What will you do next? Pop revealed on them?
I doubt you’ll manage to avoid all CCs and bombs from ~10 people.

Despite that, you won’t follow them anymore, and next scout won’t be so sure if those 10 are exactly the ones who are with the blob or not.

Pretty much, if that 2min stealth is true, then it means that Anet has plans to coffin nail Scouting in the future.

You drop stealth traps at key choke points (think gate exits of SM, narrowed pathways/tunnels/caves, you keep your eye out for traps that have been triggered. You lay more than one after the other so that advance scouting guys don’t trigger the traps.

You max out your AC ability so that AC aoe reveals stealth. You fire at the dorks that stop to kill the sentry along the way and reveal them all in return. And there will always always ALWAYS be two or three randoms that go chasing after the invis blob and don’t stop to get the fountain stealth. Those will be your warning drones.

Final bit: They magically poof outside your gate. If no scout is there, there’s no time to react. At all. Which makes having reliable scouts monitoring areas on map so crucial. It takes about 2.3 minutes to ram down a gate with five superior rams. That’s hardly enough time to call for help, but with enough hair-trigger reaction, they can come up the back end and wipe the blob. It just means more accurate and faster scouting and faster response. It’s doable.

But gone are the days of “oh look there’s white swords at north east tower” I’ll take a run over and look. You need scouts to be present and active and have established trust with commanders who know how to think and react quickly. It’ll take some adjustment.

It’s time to think outside the proverbial box.

and 1 player running ahead of the zerg will trigger every trap in the path. Hell he could even run up and tap the keep and then go poke around at the front gate to distract the scouts while the invisible zerg goes all the way to water gate completely unseen.

Currently a couple of scouts could position themselves around the outer towers or roam around the middle ground between SM and the keep, getting some good small scale fights in while keeping an eye open.
If this change goes through you will need someone in each tower and multiple people in the keep at all times. Who is that fun for?

Or we could just say screw defending, follow the master plan, and organize this karma train to be as efficient as possible.

I re-edited the crap outta my post. Sorry about that. I kept finding mistakes lol.

Puck.9612:

and 1 player running ahead of the zerg will trigger every trap in the path. Hell he could even run up and tap the keep and then go poke around at the front gate to distract the scouts while the invisible zerg goes all the way to water gate completely unseen.

Currently a couple of scouts could position themselves around the outer towers or roam around the middle ground between SM and the keep, getting some good small scale fights in while keeping an eye open.

If this change goes through you will need someone in each tower and multiple people in the keep at all times. Who is that fun for?

Or we could just say screw defending, follow the master plan, and organize this karma train to be as efficient as possible.

Naw I think you’re looking at it because the potential for it to be crap is there. I hear what you’re saying.

But what you described about the guy going around triggering all the stealth traps, that becomes a new way of playing the map. It can be countered by replacing the traps after the guy triggers it though — preferably by someone in stealth so he doesn’t see it happen.

And yes, I’m one of those roaming scouts — covering the whole map and running around yelling out movement. It does indeed mean that you will be stuck to only one or two towers or a keep if you scout, but it makes that role SO crucial now. And it will only work if commanders respond to the call outs. I will be most regretful about this, because I would duel during my “off time” while scouting. This will make that more hard.

Don’t be the @!#$%# it let’s ktrain guy. You’re better than that, I’ve seen your posts, they’re always thoughtful. Let’s figure out how to master it, instead of the other way around.

It’s a brand new meta to puzzle out and conquer. And I DO believe scouts will become an invaluable part of this — and servers that don’t recognize that will be in some trouble.

Svarty.8019:

A stealthed zerg is very trollable. Imagine a visible person amongst the invisibles …

Can you imagine the hostility and arguments this will cause?

I honestly think this is ideal. Enemy zerg sees a group of 5 or so standing out in the open looking ‘vulnerable’. Then bam they get rolled by the rest of the zerg that got their invis buff.

Jayne.9251:

I re-edited the crap outta my post. Sorry about that. I kept finding mistakes lol.

Puck.9612:

and 1 player running ahead of the zerg will trigger every trap in the path. Hell he could even run up and tap the keep and then go poke around at the front gate to distract the scouts while the invisible zerg goes all the way to water gate completely unseen.

Currently a couple of scouts could position themselves around the outer towers or roam around the middle ground between SM and the keep, getting some good small scale fights in while keeping an eye open.

If this change goes through you will need someone in each tower and multiple people in the keep at all times. Who is that fun for?

Or we could just say screw defending, follow the master plan, and organize this karma train to be as efficient as possible.

Naw I think you’re looking at it because the potential for it to be crap is there. I hear what you’re saying.

But what you described about the guy going around triggering all the stealth traps, that becomes a new way of playing the map. It can be countered by replacing the traps after the guy triggers it though — preferably by someone in stealth so he doesn’t see it happen.

And yes, I’m one of those roaming scouts — covering the whole map and running around yelling out movement. It does indeed mean that you will be stuck to only one or two towers or a keep if you scout, but it makes that role SO crucial now. And it will only work if commanders respond to the call outs. I will be most regretful about this, because I would duel during my “off time” while scouting. This will make that more hard.

Don’t be the @!#$%# it let’s ktrain guy. You’re better than that, I’ve seen your posts, they’re always thoughtful. Let’s figure out how to master it, instead of the other way around.

It’s a brand new meta to puzzle out and conquer. And I DO believe scouts will become an invaluable part of this — and servers that don’t recognize that will be in some trouble.

Currently I have accounts on a T3 server an a T7 server. The T3 server has the manpower to pull off what you are talking about but in my opinion they don’t have the motivation. Most people don’t want to spend hours sitting in one tower, this isn’t a job.

The T7 server actually has people that would be willing to do this but they don’t have the manpower. If they have to have 7-10 people doing nothing but sitting in EB keeps and tower, maybe another 5 or 6 watching the borderland, they will have maybe another 5 – 15 that can actually do anything during off hours. And of course most of the people that you could rely on to do the scouting are players that would normally tag up for pugs.

I’m not opposed to new mechanics but this is just a bad idea. I’m pretty sure whoever came up with this was the same creative genius that gave us the golem week.

Ok, so all I have to do whilst roaming is:

a) Magically know where the invis zerg/gank squad is.
b1) Have an arrow cart magically on-hand to reveal them OR
b2) Have pulled some crazy James Bond strats and put the one stealth trap allocated to me (if you put a second down it overwrites the first) precisely in that zerg/squads path.
c) After conducting that elaborate witchcraft, THEN do the Harold Holt and GTFO.

This sounds like a fantastic edition to WvW

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Svarty.8019:

A stealthed zerg is very trollable. Imagine a visible person amongst the invisibles …

Can you imagine the hostility and arguments this will cause?

I honestly think this is ideal. Enemy zerg sees a group of 5 or so standing out in the open looking ‘vulnerable’. Then bam they get rolled by the rest of the zerg that got their invis buff.

Game is about play what is broken, be smart Anet have alot of stuff to make fight easy to win.

btw

take fountain them go to enemy spawn? does it works? :P or players get insta kicked if try to reach enemy spawn?

Puck.9612:

Currently I have accounts on a T3 server an a T7 server. The T3 server has the manpower to pull off what you are talking about but in my opinion they don’t have the motivation. Most people don’t want to spend hours sitting in one tower, this isn’t a job.

The T7 server actually has people that would be willing to do this but they don’t have the manpower. If they have to have 7-10 people doing nothing but sitting in EB keeps and tower, maybe another 5 or 6 watching the borderland, they will have maybe another 5 – 15 that can actually do anything during off hours. And of course most of the people that you could rely on to do the scouting are players that would normally tag up for pugs.

I’m not opposed to new mechanics but this is just a bad idea. I’m pretty sure whoever came up with this was the same creative genius that gave us the golem week.

Ok, you have a fair point. I’ll stop with the Pollyanna schtick.

I guess I’m trying to remain optimistic. But now I totally want to be that James Bond scout. :p

Vendetta.1958:

Ok, so all I have to do whilst roaming is:

a) Magically know where the invis zerg/gank squad is.
b1) Have an arrow cart magically on-hand to reveal them OR
b2) Have pulled some crazy James Bond strats and put the one stealth trap allocated to me (if you put a second down it overwrites the first) precisely in that zerg/squads path.
c) After conducting that elaborate witchcraft, THEN do the Harold Holt and GTFO.

This sounds like a fantastic edition to WvW

This essentially sums it up. Some of you are saying that Reveal arrow carts are the way to go. But you see, the thing with invisible players is that you cant see them. So tell me how its possible to reveal an enemy zerg with ac’s when they’re gee i don’t know, Invisible!? Are we supposed to build ac’s all around the map and just spam “allegedly” empty fields? hoping eventually we’’ll hit an enemy blob in stealth?

That sure sounds fun.

As for stealth traps, are we supposed to run around the map replacing stealth traps every 2 mins because some solo player tripped them? How often do you think a stealth trap will successfully de-stealth an entire enemy zerg? Whats to stop them from just going back to SM to wait for the cool down? As I said, do you expect players to replace all these traps every 2 mins? How many players will be on this fun job? As Ven said 1 player = 1 trap, if they place a second trap, the first is removed.

This is a disastrous idea, as I said Im happy WvW is being given attention after all these years. But please. Remove these fountains, and remove all the Pve animals while your at it.

Dawdler.8521:

We complain about arrowcarts, they buff their damage.
We complain about dps overwhelming defense, they buff dps.
We complain about stealth, they buff stealth and give us more of it.

Come on, you cant say they arent consistent.

We complain about Condis and they buff various classes with more condi damage
We complain about fixing the Orb exploit and they simply removed orbs all together
We complain about having more PPK and less PPT but they removed PPK

Svarty.8019:

A stealthed zerg is very trollable. Imagine a visible person amongst the invisibles …

Can you imagine the hostility and arguments this will cause?

Or you see the two stragglers and stage dive into them, initiating combat for the rest.

It’s rare for me to see organized blobs using gate ways to get out of the towers or keeps.
Another thing is that – one scout can put like what? One trap?
Even with unlimited supply you can put 1 trap(maybe 2 for disruptor).
To be efficient here, you would need around 10 scouts who are organized. And that doesn’t mean they’ll pinpoint stealthed blob.

Regarding a tower which has a counter and that upgrade can be built faster than SMs fountain.

Well, Tower can be flipped by one player. SM – hardly.

Anyway, I didn’t mean that it kills Scouting.
It’s simply first coffin nail, and I expect more to come.
Knowing of course what Anet is capable of.

Hrm, I wonder if Anet would consider increasing the number of traps a single person could put down to say .. 10 per map?

I always thought being only able to place one was a bit silly.

Even if 10 were abused, as we all know players will find some way, that simply means one encounter as a whole (one push) — and as they do have a fee attached to them, it’s not like a bottomless pit. Maybe only increase the limit for stealth traps? The rest are one-off?

How else could it be abused? — trying to puzzle it out.

Jayne.9251:

Hrm, I wonder if Anet would consider increasing the number of traps a single person could put down to say .. 10 per map?

I always thought being only able to place one was a bit silly.

Even if 10 were abused, as we all know players will find some way, that simply means one encounter as a whole (one push) — and as they do have a fee attached to them, it’s not like a bottomless pit. Maybe only increase the limit for stealth traps? The rest are one-off?

How else could it be abused? — trying to puzzle it out.

I’m in agreement with this. I love traps but the fact I can only have one out at a time just kills them for me. And they could just put a timer on them to make sure you don’t fill the map with traps. I would say instead of ten, just make it 5.

This would also maybe help smaller servers and groups be able to outsmart a Zerg just by putting traps in strategic or well traveled spots. And if trap spam would become bad, they could add a trap detector trick similar to what we have now in some events.

Dear Anet, please test the numbers a bit. Test where you can get to in 2 minutes and reevaluate.

Vendetta.1958:

So we should allow larger servers to completely annihilate smaller servers with access to two minutes of stealth for an entire zerg?

Because they’re going to win anyway, and who really cares about having fun in WvW?

Well ya if they hold SM. Your not going to give ppl disadvantage for holding a key point on a map for a long time what would be the point of getting it and holding it.

Tao.5096:

Well, Tower can be flipped by one player. SM – hardly.

Both can and have been done it T1 (I can only imagine it is easier in lower tiers).

Jayne.9251:

I think people are freaking out about this before even trying it.

Think about how many times SM flips in a given day.

………

Don’t panic.

At least not yet.

One some servers, absolutely none. In fact, on ours it only changes about 3-4 times per week. This means for the dominant server in EACH tier they will get a huge boon besides currently having larger numbers to destroy their opponents.

Giving bonuses to the dominant server in any given tier and punishing (that is what this really is) servers with fewer numbers who can’t hold SM means this game will bleed more people than ever.

We have already seen what a small boost to stealth has done on servers below tier 3. Imagine that and now times that by about 60 times now as anyone can stealth, go do whatever they want with no chance of being spotted.

Stealth traps: yes, it is a counter if you want to put them….everywhere on the freaking map, because you have no clue where the stealthed individuals, groups, zergs are going to be. Good luck with your stealth traps against 10-20-60 people stealthed.

Classes: they might as well get rid of any classes who can’t find stealthers on every server that isn’t dominant in their tier. This is horrible for class/build diversification.

There is no need to wait and see, this is so poorly thought out it is pathetic. Classes should be great without stealth…each class each build. Really stealth should be a small extra boost for the classes who have it.

Imagine you see a group and think you are going up an even amount of people, then as soon as the fight starts 30 more people jump out of stealth who were waiting for you to engage. I can already see so many tactics to easily abuse this it isn’t funny and I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed.

This is the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. This feature will be completely gone by month 3 after release as it will be so catastrophic to WvW.

Well then it’s good to have threads like these to hash these issues out. I guess in my enthusiasm to find some puzzle fix, I hadn’t really considered lower pop tiers and the affects (big big apologies for that).

I also think it’s fantastic that nobody’s ranting (well almost ), and actually having an adult discussion about it. I hope Anet reads this thread and considers fixes for all issues/population sizes.

(I’m definately not a fan of helping the overpowering server get stronger still).

Getting a waypoint in SMC is already a huge advantage.

The stealth fountains will be worse for EB and WvW then what bloodlust was for the BL’s. Bloodlust was eventually toned down.

Siegerazer is the only buff for an outmanned/outnumbered server that’s of any value and there are times when this fails.

Scoring, supply, upgrades, original bloodlust and now SMC stealth fountain are all part of a snowball mechanics that favor stacking populations.

Since EB is the map where you can always find action, especially for militia, having an organized opponent with the extra buff of stealth will just lower the moral and participation of the servers that really need more players.