I will remind the people who play thief and mesmer, that Stealth is NOT a profession mechanic. It is a game effect/mechanic.
Which is most prevalent in the two listed professions. Mind you that one of them have a entire trait line based of in this game effect/mechanic.
I will remind the people who play thief and mesmer, that Stealth is NOT a profession mechanic. It is a game effect/mechanic.
Stealth is incredibly broken, and needs to be finally brought into line. Whether you like it or think it is useful is irrelevant, it is broken and unbalanced plain and simply.
Bahahaha Shadow Arts and All the Thief Weapons having Stealth attacks beg to differ…..
I mean it’s not like Thief has different mehanics while Stealthed or has their class Directly influenced while Stealthed Like Thief, but yes on the other 8 classes It is not a class mechanic per say.
The profession mechanic for thieves is Stealing. Poor profession balancing using broken mechanics is not the same thing as saying its part of the class.
I will remind the people who play thief and mesmer, that Stealth is NOT a profession mechanic. It is a game effect/mechanic.
Stealth is incredibly broken, and needs to be finally brought into line. Whether you like it or think it is useful is irrelevant, it is broken and unbalanced plain and simply.
Bahahaha Shadow Arts and All the Thief Weapons having Stealth attacks beg to differ…..
I mean it’s not like Thief has different mehanics while Stealthed or has their class Directly influenced while Stealthed Like Thief, but yes on the other 8 classes It is not a class mechanic per say.
The profession mechanic for thieves is Stealing. Poor profession balancing using broken mechanics is not the same thing as saying its part of the class.
Classes have more than one mechanic, not all mechanics are tied to the F skills.
So explain how Stealth Attacks aren’t a Class Mechanic? They are Unique to the Thief Class and they are on every single Weapon, then there is the Traitline that all it does is modify Stealth….. sounds like a class mechanic.
I will remind the people who play thief and mesmer, that Stealth is NOT a profession mechanic. It is a game effect/mechanic.
Stealth is incredibly broken, and needs to be finally brought into line. Whether you like it or think it is useful is irrelevant, it is broken and unbalanced plain and simply.
Bahahaha Shadow Arts and All the Thief Weapons having Stealth attacks beg to differ…..
I mean it’s not like Thief has different mehanics while Stealthed or has their class Directly influenced while Stealthed Like Thief, but yes on the other 8 classes It is not a class mechanic per say.
The profession mechanic for thieves is Stealing. Poor profession balancing using broken mechanics is not the same thing as saying its part of the class.
Classes have more than one mechanic, not all mechanics are tied to the F skills.
So explain how Stealth Attacks aren’t a Class Mechanic? They are Unique to the Thief Class and they are on every single Weapon, then there is the Traitline that all it does is modify Stealth….. sounds like a class mechanic.
Like I said, class design and game mechanics are not the same thing. People need to stop confusing the two and getting upset over anything that might threaten their builds when discussing a mechanic that is not designed specifically for any class. Just because a class has access to it, does not mean it was designed for it, that is a matter of class design.
The discussion here is about bringing stealth into line. This broken mechanic has been abused since it was introduced, and it should not surprise anyone. Allowing people to be invisible in a competitive game mode and to the extent it is allowed in GW2 is beyond ridiculous and a great example of poor design. It is not unreasonable for people to want some balance regarding Stealth.
I will remind the people who play thief and mesmer, that Stealth is NOT a profession mechanic. It is a game effect/mechanic.
Stealth is incredibly broken, and needs to be finally brought into line. Whether you like it or think it is useful is irrelevant, it is broken and unbalanced plain and simply.
Bahahaha Shadow Arts and All the Thief Weapons having Stealth attacks beg to differ…..
I mean it’s not like Thief has different mehanics while Stealthed or has their class Directly influenced while Stealthed Like Thief, but yes on the other 8 classes It is not a class mechanic per say.
The profession mechanic for thieves is Stealing. Poor profession balancing using broken mechanics is not the same thing as saying its part of the class.
Classes have more than one mechanic, not all mechanics are tied to the F skills.
So explain how Stealth Attacks aren’t a Class Mechanic? They are Unique to the Thief Class and they are on every single Weapon, then there is the Traitline that all it does is modify Stealth….. sounds like a class mechanic.
Like I said, class design and game mechanics are not the same thing. People need to stop confusing the two and getting upset over anything that might threaten their builds when discussing a mechanic that is not designed specifically for any class. Just because a class has access to it, does not mean it was designed for it, that is a matter of class design.
The discussion here is about bringing stealth into line. This broken mechanic has been abused since it was introduced, and it should not surprise anyone. Allowing people to be invisible in a competitive game mode and to the extent it is allowed in GW2 is beyond ridiculous and a great example of poor design. It is not unreasonable for people to want some balance regarding Stealth.
Hmm let’s see You say in the bolded just because a class has access to it doesn’t mean it was designed for it. Yet let’s see Thief is the only class with Stealth Attacks, and has a Trait line dedicated to modifing/augmenting Stealth. And let’s not gloss over the fact of being able to Access stealth using every weapon set (on Land)( yes even SB and Staff due to combo fields).
So it seems like Thief was designed with Stealth being heavily involved, especially since it is the only class on the official see page highlighting Stealth and Stealth Attacks….
Let’s take a look at the definition of a Class Mechanic shall we?
“Generally speaking, profession mechanic of a profession refers to the skills activated through the function keys, but any mechanic exclusive to a profession can also be called a profession mechanic.”
“Each primary profession mechanic has a specialization tied to it. This can be either provide increase in recharge rate of their unique skills, a bonus in damage, or other effects. Primary and secondary mechanics often have traits tied to them. Adept minor traits for elite specializations change how a profession mechanic works, or replace it entirely.”
Hmm if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.
Again does any other class have Stealth Attacks? No? Ok. now does any other Class have a Traitline almost exclusively Designed to modify/augment stealth? No?
Again there are multiple Mechanics per class not just the F skills.
(edited by BlaqueFyre.5678)
I will remind the people who play thief and mesmer, that Stealth is NOT a profession mechanic. It is a game effect/mechanic.
Stealth is incredibly broken, and needs to be finally brought into line. Whether you like it or think it is useful is irrelevant, it is broken and unbalanced plain and simply.
Bahahaha Shadow Arts and All the Thief Weapons having Stealth attacks beg to differ…..
I mean it’s not like Thief has different mehanics while Stealthed or has their class Directly influenced while Stealthed Like Thief, but yes on the other 8 classes It is not a class mechanic per say.
The profession mechanic for thieves is Stealing. Poor profession balancing using broken mechanics is not the same thing as saying its part of the class.
Classes have more than one mechanic, not all mechanics are tied to the F skills.
So explain how Stealth Attacks aren’t a Class Mechanic? They are Unique to the Thief Class and they are on every single Weapon, then there is the Traitline that all it does is modify Stealth….. sounds like a class mechanic.
Like I said, class design and game mechanics are not the same thing. People need to stop confusing the two and getting upset over anything that might threaten their builds when discussing a mechanic that is not designed specifically for any class. Just because a class has access to it, does not mean it was designed for it, that is a matter of class design.
The discussion here is about bringing stealth into line. This broken mechanic has been abused since it was introduced, and it should not surprise anyone. Allowing people to be invisible in a competitive game mode and to the extent it is allowed in GW2 is beyond ridiculous and a great example of poor design. It is not unreasonable for people to want some balance regarding Stealth.
Hmm let’s see You say in the bolded just because a class has access to it doesn’t mean it was designed for it. Yet let’s see Thief is the only class with Stealth Attacks, and has a Trait line dedicated to modifing/augmenting Stealth. And let’s not gloss over the fact of being able to Access stealth using every weapon set (on Land)( yes even SB and Staff due to combo fields).
So it seems like Thief was designed with Stealth being heavily involved, especially since it is the only class on the official see page highlighting Stealth and Stealth Attacks….
Let’s take a look at the definition of a Class Mechanic shall we?
“Generally speaking, profession mechanic of a profession refers to the skills activated through the function keys, but any mechanic exclusive to a profession can also be called a profession mechanic.”
“Each primary profession mechanic has a specialization tied to it. This can be either provide increase in recharge rate of their unique skills, a bonus in damage, or other effects. Primary and secondary mechanics often have traits tied to them. Adept minor traits for elite specializations change how a profession mechanic works, or replace it entirely.”
Hmm if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.
Again does any other class have Stealth Attacks? No? Ok. now does any other Class have a Traitline almost exclusively Designed to modify/augment stealth? No?
Again there are multiple Mechanics per class not just the F skills.
Again, what does any of that have to do with the general issue of Stealth as a problematic mechanic? Class design and game mechanics are separate issues. Does this mean that stealth can never be changed because a profession uses it? Until they find a way to properly balance the two, this problem will continue to cause issues.
(edited by X T D.6458)
I will remind the people who play thief and mesmer, that Stealth is NOT a profession mechanic. It is a game effect/mechanic.
Stealth is incredibly broken, and needs to be finally brought into line. Whether you like it or think it is useful is irrelevant, it is broken and unbalanced plain and simply.
Bahahaha Shadow Arts and All the Thief Weapons having Stealth attacks beg to differ…..
I mean it’s not like Thief has different mehanics while Stealthed or has their class Directly influenced while Stealthed Like Thief, but yes on the other 8 classes It is not a class mechanic per say.
The profession mechanic for thieves is Stealing. Poor profession balancing using broken mechanics is not the same thing as saying its part of the class.
Classes have more than one mechanic, not all mechanics are tied to the F skills.
So explain how Stealth Attacks aren’t a Class Mechanic? They are Unique to the Thief Class and they are on every single Weapon, then there is the Traitline that all it does is modify Stealth….. sounds like a class mechanic.
Like I said, class design and game mechanics are not the same thing. People need to stop confusing the two and getting upset over anything that might threaten their builds when discussing a mechanic that is not designed specifically for any class. Just because a class has access to it, does not mean it was designed for it, that is a matter of class design.
The discussion here is about bringing stealth into line. This broken mechanic has been abused since it was introduced, and it should not surprise anyone. Allowing people to be invisible in a competitive game mode and to the extent it is allowed in GW2 is beyond ridiculous and a great example of poor design. It is not unreasonable for people to want some balance regarding Stealth.
Hmm let’s see You say in the bolded just because a class has access to it doesn’t mean it was designed for it. Yet let’s see Thief is the only class with Stealth Attacks, and has a Trait line dedicated to modifing/augmenting Stealth. And let’s not gloss over the fact of being able to Access stealth using every weapon set (on Land)( yes even SB and Staff due to combo fields).
So it seems like Thief was designed with Stealth being heavily involved, especially since it is the only class on the official see page highlighting Stealth and Stealth Attacks….
Let’s take a look at the definition of a Class Mechanic shall we?
“Generally speaking, profession mechanic of a profession refers to the skills activated through the function keys, but any mechanic exclusive to a profession can also be called a profession mechanic.”
“Each primary profession mechanic has a specialization tied to it. This can be either provide increase in recharge rate of their unique skills, a bonus in damage, or other effects. Primary and secondary mechanics often have traits tied to them. Adept minor traits for elite specializations change how a profession mechanic works, or replace it entirely.”
Hmm if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.
Again does any other class have Stealth Attacks? No? Ok. now does any other Class have a Traitline almost exclusively Designed to modify/augment stealth? No?
Again there are multiple Mechanics per class not just the F skills.
Again, what does any of that have to do with the general issue of Stealth as a problematic mechanic? Class design and game mechanics are separate issues.
You explicitly stated Stealth was not a Profession Mechanic of Thief, and tried fighting on it, and I showed you otherwise. All I was doing was correctly your misinformation you were spreading.
It’s like some people on these forums don’t even know what they type and need help remembering.
And let’s see if you nerf this defensive mechanic they should look at nerfing other classes defenses especially all the passive ones because fair is fair you know. Especially since in regards to Thief the Stealth Mechanic is tied to more than just Defense.
I will remind the people who play thief and mesmer, that Stealth is NOT a profession mechanic. It is a game effect/mechanic.
Stealth is incredibly broken, and needs to be finally brought into line. Whether you like it or think it is useful is irrelevant, it is broken and unbalanced plain and simply.
Bahahaha Shadow Arts and All the Thief Weapons having Stealth attacks beg to differ…..
I mean it’s not like Thief has different mehanics while Stealthed or has their class Directly influenced while Stealthed Like Thief, but yes on the other 8 classes It is not a class mechanic per say.
The profession mechanic for thieves is Stealing. Poor profession balancing using broken mechanics is not the same thing as saying its part of the class.
Classes have more than one mechanic, not all mechanics are tied to the F skills.
So explain how Stealth Attacks aren’t a Class Mechanic? They are Unique to the Thief Class and they are on every single Weapon, then there is the Traitline that all it does is modify Stealth….. sounds like a class mechanic.
Like I said, class design and game mechanics are not the same thing. People need to stop confusing the two and getting upset over anything that might threaten their builds when discussing a mechanic that is not designed specifically for any class. Just because a class has access to it, does not mean it was designed for it, that is a matter of class design.
The discussion here is about bringing stealth into line. This broken mechanic has been abused since it was introduced, and it should not surprise anyone. Allowing people to be invisible in a competitive game mode and to the extent it is allowed in GW2 is beyond ridiculous and a great example of poor design. It is not unreasonable for people to want some balance regarding Stealth.
Hmm let’s see You say in the bolded just because a class has access to it doesn’t mean it was designed for it. Yet let’s see Thief is the only class with Stealth Attacks, and has a Trait line dedicated to modifing/augmenting Stealth. And let’s not gloss over the fact of being able to Access stealth using every weapon set (on Land)( yes even SB and Staff due to combo fields).
So it seems like Thief was designed with Stealth being heavily involved, especially since it is the only class on the official see page highlighting Stealth and Stealth Attacks….
Let’s take a look at the definition of a Class Mechanic shall we?
“Generally speaking, profession mechanic of a profession refers to the skills activated through the function keys, but any mechanic exclusive to a profession can also be called a profession mechanic.”
“Each primary profession mechanic has a specialization tied to it. This can be either provide increase in recharge rate of their unique skills, a bonus in damage, or other effects. Primary and secondary mechanics often have traits tied to them. Adept minor traits for elite specializations change how a profession mechanic works, or replace it entirely.”
Hmm if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.
Again does any other class have Stealth Attacks? No? Ok. now does any other Class have a Traitline almost exclusively Designed to modify/augment stealth? No?
Again there are multiple Mechanics per class not just the F skills.
Again, what does any of that have to do with the general issue of Stealth as a problematic mechanic? Class design and game mechanics are separate issues.
You explicitly stated Stealth was not a Profession Mechanic of Thief, and tried fighting on it, and I showed you otherwise. All I was doing was correctly your misinformation you were spreading.
It’s like some people on these forums don’t even know what they type and need help remembering.
And let’s see if you nerf this defensive mechanic they should look at nerfing other classes defenses especially all the passive ones because fair is fair you know. Especially since in regards to Thief the Stealth Mechanic is tied to more than just Defense.
I am not the one who brought up thieves, my post was in response to them to remind them that stealth is not everything those professions have. Some people cannot separate the two when discussing stealth.
Stealth in itself is a problematic issue as a game mechanic. Part of the topic’s subject is about Stealth in general, not about how it impacts any profession.
I have said this many times, and will continue to say this…being able to stay permanently invisible in a competitive game mode is beyond ridiculous and just absolutely terrible design, regardless of what profession can accomplish it.
@X T D
Again you were stating a falsehood and defending I corrected you, now onto the actual topic.
It’s is only a problem when the perms stealth can deal damage, all they would have to do is make it so any applied damage direct/Condi causes Revealed and boom then all that is there is a useless perms Stealthed class that can’t Do anything i.e. Cap/contest or deal damage while staying Stealthed. Simple fix making it so those classes can’t directly affect anything while being Stealthed besides stacking stealth and watching.
But most of the proposed fixes would destroy the mechanic in regards to the class it most directly affects, Thief, since the Stealth Is a Class Mechanic of Thief that is tied to the core design of Thief, there would either need to be compensation for most of the proposed fixes or the equivalent defensive mechanics of other classes would also have to be nerfed since nothing in this game is specifically set in a vacuum and every balance/design decision was made with everything one each class taken into account or we should hope it was.
And with CCs due to the massive amount of CC spam in game any Hard CC should have large diminishing returns, relative to the Strength of the CC, that way they can trim things like Stability spam and make fighting in WvW and PvP more healthy, because no one enjoys CC spam.
(edited by BlaqueFyre.5678)
Why are you guys writing books over this? Stealth is a mechanic that the thief class was built entirely around, they have multiple skills and traits for it, mesmers less so, but it isn’t like rangers where it was just slapped on one skill on one weapon.
This is why you will not see major changes to stealth because it would break the thief class, unless they do a redesign for the class which they won’t. At best they will hand out a reveal to a random you win the lotto class once a year.
End of story.
@X T D
Again you were stating a falsehood and defending I corrected you, now onto the actual topic.
It’s is only a problem when the perms stealth can deal damage, all they would have to do is make it so any applied damage direct/Condi causes Revealed and boom then all that is there is a useless perms Stealthed class that can’t Do anything i.e. Cap/contest or deal damage while staying Stealthed. Simple fix making it so those classes can’t directly affect anything while being Stealthed besides stacking stealth and watching.
But most of the proposed fixes would destroy the mechanic in regards to the class it most directly affects, Thief, since the Stealth Is a Class Mechanic of Thief that is tied to the core design of Thief, there would either need to be compensation for most of the proposed fixes or the equivalent defensive mechanics of other classes would also have to be nerfed since nothing in this game is specifically set in a vacuum and every balance/design decision was made with everything one each class taken into account or we should hope it was.
And with CCs due to the massive amount of CC spam in game any Hard CC should have large diminishing returns, relative to the Strength of the CC, that way they can trim things like Stability spam and make fighting in WvW and PvP more healthy, because no one enjoys CC spam.
It is not a falsehood, stealth is not unique to thieves and never was. Mesmers have plenty of stealth and ways to alter the durations, does that mean Mesmers are a stealth class as well? It is not part of their profession mechanics simply because they have access to it, you keep confusing the two things, and I keep telling you it is separate. Class design that happens to use a game mechanic, does not mean the class uses it as its profession mechanic. Does this mean we should never have anything done to fix a broken mechanic because it might effect thieves?
Can you honestly say that stealth is handled properly in gw?
In order to balance stealth, an option could be a endurance compsumption when in stealth, for all classes. this should force players to manage stealth carefully.
@X T D
Again you were stating a falsehood and defending I corrected you, now onto the actual topic.
It’s is only a problem when the perms stealth can deal damage, all they would have to do is make it so any applied damage direct/Condi causes Revealed and boom then all that is there is a useless perms Stealthed class that can’t Do anything i.e. Cap/contest or deal damage while staying Stealthed. Simple fix making it so those classes can’t directly affect anything while being Stealthed besides stacking stealth and watching.
But most of the proposed fixes would destroy the mechanic in regards to the class it most directly affects, Thief, since the Stealth Is a Class Mechanic of Thief that is tied to the core design of Thief, there would either need to be compensation for most of the proposed fixes or the equivalent defensive mechanics of other classes would also have to be nerfed since nothing in this game is specifically set in a vacuum and every balance/design decision was made with everything one each class taken into account or we should hope it was.
And with CCs due to the massive amount of CC spam in game any Hard CC should have large diminishing returns, relative to the Strength of the CC, that way they can trim things like Stability spam and make fighting in WvW and PvP more healthy, because no one enjoys CC spam.
It is not a falsehood, stealth is not unique to thieves and never was. Mesmers have plenty of stealth and ways to alter the durations, does that mean Mesmers are a stealth class as well? It is not part of their profession mechanics simply because they have access to it, you keep confusing the two things, and I keep telling you it is separate. Class design that happens to use a game mechanic, does not mean the class uses it as its profession mechanic. Does this mean we should never have anything done to fix a broken mechanic because it might effect thieves?
Can you honestly say that stealth is handled properly in gw?
Did I say it was Unique? And you weren’t stating that it wasn’t unique, you stated it is not a Class Mechanic, which it is. It doesn’t have to be unique to be a secondary class mechanic. It’s a mechanic because Stealth directly modifies Thief i.e. Stealth Attacks, and they have a Traitline almost exclusively modifying/augmenting Stealth again one of the criteria of a Class Mechanic. And it is what the Thief Class was designed around as shown by the heavy Stealth mechanics on Thief and by Anets own admission and focal point on the profession page of Thief on the official website.
It’s not that Thief uses stealth it’s that Thief was designed around stealth something no other class was designed around.
In order to balance stealth, an option could be a endurance compsumption when in stealth, for all classes. this should force players to manage stealth carefully.
That could be an interesting idea, but it could also be seen as unfair for some professions like mesmers and rangers as opposed to daredevils which have much more endurance gain/dodge opportunities.
Then you get lost in the numbers, of how much endurance is lost…is it lost progressively while in stealth or all at once etc etc.
There needs to be a standardized approach to bringing stealth into line. I am in favor of having reveal take effect anytime a player leaves stealth regardless of whether or not damage was done.
I will remind the people who play thief and mesmer, that Stealth is NOT a profession mechanic. It is a game effect/mechanic.
Stealth is incredibly broken, and needs to be finally brought into line. Whether you like it or think it is useful is irrelevant, it is broken and unbalanced plain and simply.
Bahahaha Shadow Arts and All the Thief Weapons having Stealth attacks beg to differ…..
I mean it’s not like Thief has different mehanics while Stealthed or has their class Directly influenced while Stealthed Like Thief, but yes on the other 8 classes It is not a class mechanic per say.
He’s right. Technically the thief mechanics are
Class mechanics are unique to each class, and since Stealth is not unique to thieves, its not one of their mechanics. Yes, 1 of their mechanics does require stealth, but stealth is not their mechanic.
I will remind the people who play thief and mesmer, that Stealth is NOT a profession mechanic. It is a game effect/mechanic.
Stealth is incredibly broken, and needs to be finally brought into line. Whether you like it or think it is useful is irrelevant, it is broken and unbalanced plain and simply.
Bahahaha Shadow Arts and All the Thief Weapons having Stealth attacks beg to differ…..
I mean it’s not like Thief has different mehanics while Stealthed or has their class Directly influenced while Stealthed Like Thief, but yes on the other 8 classes It is not a class mechanic per say.
He’s right. Technically the thief mechanics are
- Initiative system
- Stealing
- Dual Skills
- Stealth attacks
Class mechanics are unique to each class, and since Stealth is not unique to thieves, its not one of their mechanics. Yes, 1 of their mechanics does require stealth, but stealth is not their mechanic.
Thank You. Key word there is Unique.
I will remind the people who play thief and mesmer, that Stealth is NOT a profession mechanic. It is a game effect/mechanic.
Stealth is incredibly broken, and needs to be finally brought into line. Whether you like it or think it is useful is irrelevant, it is broken and unbalanced plain and simply.
Bahahaha Shadow Arts and All the Thief Weapons having Stealth attacks beg to differ…..
I mean it’s not like Thief has different mehanics while Stealthed or has their class Directly influenced while Stealthed Like Thief, but yes on the other 8 classes It is not a class mechanic per say.
He’s right. Technically the thief mechanics are
- Initiative system
- Stealing
- Dual Skills
- Stealth attacks
Class mechanics are unique to each class, and since Stealth is not unique to thieves, its not one of their mechanics. Yes, 1 of their mechanics does require stealth, but stealth is not their mechanic.
Yes Stealth isn’t exclusive to Thief but one of the Criteria for a Class mechanic is a Specialization directly tied to it which Shadow Arts fills that requirement. Again no other class has a Specialization almost soley tied to Stealth (only two traits don’t affect Stealth in the whole trait line), and then there is the fact that Stealth Attacks again indirectly make stealth as a Mechanic because without Stealth there is no Stealth Attack.
I will remind the people who play thief and mesmer, that Stealth is NOT a profession mechanic. It is a game effect/mechanic.
Stealth is incredibly broken, and needs to be finally brought into line. Whether you like it or think it is useful is irrelevant, it is broken and unbalanced plain and simply.
Bahahaha Shadow Arts and All the Thief Weapons having Stealth attacks beg to differ…..
I mean it’s not like Thief has different mehanics while Stealthed or has their class Directly influenced while Stealthed Like Thief, but yes on the other 8 classes It is not a class mechanic per say.
He’s right. Technically the thief mechanics are
- Initiative system
- Stealing
- Dual Skills
- Stealth attacks
Class mechanics are unique to each class, and since Stealth is not unique to thieves, its not one of their mechanics. Yes, 1 of their mechanics does require stealth, but stealth is not their mechanic.
Yes Stealth isn’t exclusive to Thief but one of the Criteria for a Class mechanic is a Specialization directly tied to it which Shadow Arts fills that requirement. Again no other class has a Specialization almost soley tied to Stealth (only two traits don’t affect Stealth in the whole trait line), and then there is the fact that Stealth Attacks again indirectly make stealth as a Mechanic because without Stealth there is no Stealth Attack.
Stealth is not unique to thieves, and is not a class mechanic. Stealing and the initiative system are their class mechanic, which do have their own traitline as well. Class mechanics are mechanics that are unique to that class. Since stealth is not unique to thieves it, by definition, cannot be a class mechanic.
Like you said, one of the tells of a class mechanic is that it has a traitline tied to it. But just because something fulfills that one thing does not mean that is is a class mechanic. As evidenced by stealth.
Edit – And under your logic, critical hits are a class mechanic of thieves due to the Critical Strikes traitline. Do you see why your argument that “Thieves have a traitline for stealth, so its a class mechanic” is silly now?
(edited by OriOri.8724)
I will remind the people who play thief and mesmer, that Stealth is NOT a profession mechanic. It is a game effect/mechanic.
Stealth is incredibly broken, and needs to be finally brought into line. Whether you like it or think it is useful is irrelevant, it is broken and unbalanced plain and simply.
Had some hope when they finally adressed the perma stealthed teef back then. But since HoT and the amount of stealth that got with it (plus from previous patched) made my hope fly right through the window.
Bet all classes get perma stealth next expansion.
I will remind the people who play thief and mesmer, that Stealth is NOT a profession mechanic. It is a game effect/mechanic.
Stealth is incredibly broken, and needs to be finally brought into line. Whether you like it or think it is useful is irrelevant, it is broken and unbalanced plain and simply.
Bahahaha Shadow Arts and All the Thief Weapons having Stealth attacks beg to differ…..
I mean it’s not like Thief has different mehanics while Stealthed or has their class Directly influenced while Stealthed Like Thief, but yes on the other 8 classes It is not a class mechanic per say.
He’s right. Technically the thief mechanics are
- Initiative system
- Stealing
- Dual Skills
- Stealth attacks
Class mechanics are unique to each class, and since Stealth is not unique to thieves, its not one of their mechanics. Yes, 1 of their mechanics does require stealth, but stealth is not their mechanic.
Yes Stealth isn’t exclusive to Thief but one of the Criteria for a Class mechanic is a Specialization directly tied to it which Shadow Arts fills that requirement. Again no other class has a Specialization almost soley tied to Stealth (only two traits don’t affect Stealth in the whole trait line), and then there is the fact that Stealth Attacks again indirectly make stealth as a Mechanic because without Stealth there is no Stealth Attack.
Stealth is not unique to thieves, and is not a class mechanic. Stealing and the initiative system are their class mechanic, which do have their own traitline as well. Class mechanics are mechanics that are unique to that class. Since stealth is not unique to thieves it, by definition, cannot be a class mechanic.
Like you said, one of the tells of a class mechanic is that it has a traitline tied to it. But just because something fulfills that one thing does not mean that is is a class mechanic. As evidenced by stealth.
Edit – And under your logic, critical hits are a class mechanic of thieves due to the Critical Strikes traitline. Do you see why your argument that “Thieves have a traitline for stealth, so its a class mechanic” is silly now?
It’s not just Shadow Arts but also the Stealth Attacks which also tie Stealth even further to Thief which indirectly makes Stealth a Class Mechanic again name another class with the Unique Stealth Attacks and a Traitline Uniquely affecting stealth at every tier. There isn’t any.
Again without Stealth there is no Stealth Attacks, and since Stealth Attacks is a Thief Mechanic that ties Stealth to being a Thief mechanic on top of the Dedicated Traitline.
I will remind the people who play thief and mesmer, that Stealth is NOT a profession mechanic. It is a game effect/mechanic.
Stealth is incredibly broken, and needs to be finally brought into line. Whether you like it or think it is useful is irrelevant, it is broken and unbalanced plain and simply.
Had some hope when they finally adressed the perma stealthed teef back then. But since HoT and the amount of stealth that got with it (plus from previous patched) made my hope fly right through the window.
Bet all classes get perma stealth next expansion.
That is the fundamental problem with Stealth. Anyone could have seen the problems that would arise when it was first introduced, and yet little was done to properly address the issues all these years in PvP/WvW by the balance department or whoever deals with these things.
When you have something so completely broken, abused, and over the top…you don’t double down on it and give more professions access to it, and yet that is exactly what they did. They should have done something to balance stealth a long time ago, before implementing more access to it.
Thieves have leaps, blocks, a metric kittenton of evades and numerous spammable teleports/gap creators that allow them to pull out of combat whenever they see fit. Stealth is hardly their only means of sustain. I think a slight nerf to stealth across the board affecting all classes, including thieves would not be unwarranted. Some of you seem to think the posters in this thread are out to get thieves, but I’d gladly take hits to smokescale field, longbow 3 and the druid stealth trait if similar cuts were made to mesmers & thieves. I’m not going to quote every skill individually but I don’t think scrappers really need a nerf on their stealth tonic. I don’t even count their smoke field since its rng. Rng-based skills are inherently worse. For example I’d take a skill that gave me 5s of stability over a skill that gave me 15s of stability 50% of the time (doing nothing the rest of the time).
I would, of course, want similar nerfs to professions that excel at hard chain CC’s. Stealth isn’t the only issue pointed out in this thread.
~ Kovu
(edited by Kovu.7560)
I’m not going to quote every skill individually but I don’t think scrappers really need a nerf on their stealth tonic. I don’t even count their smoke field since its rng.
Smoke bomb isn’t random. Sure, there is a trait that drop one at your feet, but people who actually use it to stealth actually do it with the Bomb Kit.
But the Engineer (or Scrapper for that matter) Stealth everyone complains about is the Sneak Gyro.
I will remind the people who play thief and mesmer, that Stealth is NOT a profession mechanic. It is a game effect/mechanic.
Stealth is incredibly broken, and needs to be finally brought into line. Whether you like it or think it is useful is irrelevant, it is broken and unbalanced plain and simply.
Bahahaha Shadow Arts and All the Thief Weapons having Stealth attacks beg to differ…..
I mean it’s not like Thief has different mehanics while Stealthed or has their class Directly influenced while Stealthed Like Thief, but yes on the other 8 classes It is not a class mechanic per say.
He’s right. Technically the thief mechanics are
- Initiative system
- Stealing
- Dual Skills
- Stealth attacks
Class mechanics are unique to each class, and since Stealth is not unique to thieves, its not one of their mechanics. Yes, 1 of their mechanics does require stealth, but stealth is not their mechanic.
Yes Stealth isn’t exclusive to Thief but one of the Criteria for a Class mechanic is a Specialization directly tied to it which Shadow Arts fills that requirement. Again no other class has a Specialization almost soley tied to Stealth (only two traits don’t affect Stealth in the whole trait line), and then there is the fact that Stealth Attacks again indirectly make stealth as a Mechanic because without Stealth there is no Stealth Attack.
According to the quote you posted one of the criteria for something to be considered a class mechanic is for it to be exclusive to the class. Stealth is not exclusive to any class.
Again, that is according to what you posted.
I’m not going to quote every skill individually but I don’t think scrappers really need a nerf on their stealth tonic. I don’t even count their smoke field since its rng.
Smoke bomb isn’t random. Sure, there is a trait that drop one at your feet, but people who actually use it to stealth actually do it with the Bomb Kit.
But the Engineer (or Scrapper for that matter) Stealth everyone complains about is the Sneak Gyro.
Oh. Fair enough. I don’t play engi but the one I often roam with complains about engi rng. Apparently half the time his smoke field is a reflect line instead?
Anywho, I don’t know why people kitten about the gyro. It follows the engi so you can cleave on it and hit both. Also, once you kill it RIP one of their utility slots for 40s. That kitten has nothing on the shenanigans thieves and mesmers can pull.
~ Kovu
I will remind the people who play thief and mesmer, that Stealth is NOT a profession mechanic. It is a game effect/mechanic.
Stealth is incredibly broken, and needs to be finally brought into line. Whether you like it or think it is useful is irrelevant, it is broken and unbalanced plain and simply.
Bahahaha Shadow Arts and All the Thief Weapons having Stealth attacks beg to differ…..
I mean it’s not like Thief has different mehanics while Stealthed or has their class Directly influenced while Stealthed Like Thief, but yes on the other 8 classes It is not a class mechanic per say.
He’s right. Technically the thief mechanics are
- Initiative system
- Stealing
- Dual Skills
- Stealth attacks
Class mechanics are unique to each class, and since Stealth is not unique to thieves, its not one of their mechanics. Yes, 1 of their mechanics does require stealth, but stealth is not their mechanic.
Yes Stealth isn’t exclusive to Thief but one of the Criteria for a Class mechanic is a Specialization directly tied to it which Shadow Arts fills that requirement. Again no other class has a Specialization almost soley tied to Stealth (only two traits don’t affect Stealth in the whole trait line), and then there is the fact that Stealth Attacks again indirectly make stealth as a Mechanic because without Stealth there is no Stealth Attack.
According to the quote you posted one of the criteria for something to be considered a class mechanic is for it to be exclusive to the class. Stealth is not exclusive to any class.
Again, that is according to what you posted.
Yes, but look at the facts of 1. Thief is the only class with Stealth Attacks, which is tied behind what exactly? Oh right Stealth. And 2. A Specialization soley dedicated to What again? Oh yeah Stealth. So even though Stealth is not exclusive Thief has. Exclusive access to the Unique Stealth Attacks which can only exist while Stealthed. And 3. Anets main design of Thief was around Stealth which is why it’s one of two featured things one the Profession bio on the official webpage.
Again no other profession has an exclusive skill linked to or behind Stealth while Thief does
IMO stealth should have been exclusive to Thief, since it is the only class that has it built into the Core Concept and design of the class, then it would be easier to balance since any changes affecting Stealth would only affect Thief
(edited by BlaqueFyre.5678)
Oh. Fair enough. I don’t play engi but the one I often roam with complains about engi rng. Apparently half the time his smoke field is a reflect line instead?
Oh, that’s Toss Elixir U. But I don’t know why would anyone rely on that for smoke honestly. I think as it as a projectible blocker (somenthing both Wall of Reflection and Smoke Screen do) and if i actually wanted to toss a elixir for stealth, I’d go with Toss Elixir S.
Lol, complaining about Stealth and trying to act like you didn’t have Thieves specifically in mind when you created the topic or argued in favour of it? Give me a break. You’re not fooling anyone. Every single person on this forum who knows anything at all about this game knows that Thief has the most access to stealth and has a mechanic that revolves around it. If you nerf stealth, you are nerfing thieves more so than any of the other professions based on those two facts alone, and pretending that wasn’t the original intention is stoopid. Please stop.
Also, nerf ranger lb 3? Smoke scale field? Scrapper sneak gyro? Go ahead. I say that because those two professions WILL NOT CARE. They DO NOT need stealth in any capacity at all. They literally use them as supplements to their builds and that is it. If you take those toys away they will simply replace them because they didn’t need them in the first place.
Thieves on the other hand, if you nerf Stealth then you are also nerfing their profession mechanic (Yano, STEALTH attacks, which BTW have already been given a clunky cooldown which makes one of our weapon sets in particular high unplayable). You’re also nerfing Shadow Arts, an ENTIRE traitline based solely on utilising stealth (which BTW is already almost never used in anything except condition builds, and even then DA is often preferable) You’re also heavily nerfing builds that rely on stealth +stealth attack to land damage AND sustain themselves, most notably D/D which is already our worst weapon set bar none. You’re also nerfing the options that literally all of our weaponsets have, nerfing one of our few methods of sustain outside of dodging and a single block utility, and nerfing our role in sPvP, which often requires that we stealth in order to make a successful decap or good +1 opening.
Oh yeah, and you’re also butchering Core Thief, which can’t spam dodges and relies on Stealth more so than any other class in the game.
The ONLY thing wrong with stealth ATM is that Ghost Thieves don’t get revealed on trap usage. Put direct damage on the traps and the problem is gone. Simple.
Please, l2p against stealth. It is NOT hard. This is something I expect new players to complain about who haven’t learned how to count stealth, predict movements and dodge properly. Not from people that have actually played this game for a long time. Lol.
Stealth is not unique to thieves, and is not a class mechanic. Stealing and the initiative system are their class mechanic, which do have their own traitline as well. Class mechanics are mechanics that are unique to that class. Since stealth is not unique to thieves it, by definition, cannot be a class mechanic.
Like you said, one of the tells of a class mechanic is that it has a traitline tied to it. But just because something fulfills that one thing does not mean that is is a class mechanic. As evidenced by stealth.
Edit – And under your logic, critical hits are a class mechanic of thieves due to the Critical Strikes traitline. Do you see why your argument that “Thieves have a traitline for stealth, so its a class mechanic” is silly now?
It’s not just Shadow Arts but also the Stealth Attacks which also tie Stealth even further to Thief which indirectly makes Stealth a Class Mechanic again name another class with the Unique Stealth Attacks and a Traitline Uniquely affecting stealth at every tier. There isn’t any.
Again without Stealth there is no Stealth Attacks, and since Stealth Attacks is a Thief Mechanic that ties Stealth to being a Thief mechanic on top of the Dedicated Traitline.
GW2 does not have “indirect” class mechanics. Either something is a class mechanic or it isn’t. Class mechanics are unique to each class, and furthermore they are the F skills. Stealth is neither. I understand that you think thief should have been the only class to have stealth, but this just isn’t the case.
Stealth attacks are a unique aspect of thieves, yes. But that does not mean that stealth is a thief class mechanic. It just isn’t, you are going to have to let go of that notion because its wrong. And again with the traitlines, convenient how you ignore Critical Strikes which buffs critical hits in every tier, yet I don’t see you claiming that critical hits are a thief class mechanic.
@TheDarkSoul – I agree that really the only thing that stealth needs is that applying damaging conditions should break stealth. Its beyond broken in design that you can deal damage to other players without breaking stealth. It doesn’t matter if the numbers are low, or if the build doesn’t have a lot of pressure. Its fundamentally broken to be able to deal any damage whatsoever without breaking stealth.
Stealth is not unique to thieves, and is not a class mechanic. Stealing and the initiative system are their class mechanic, which do have their own traitline as well. Class mechanics are mechanics that are unique to that class. Since stealth is not unique to thieves it, by definition, cannot be a class mechanic.
Like you said, one of the tells of a class mechanic is that it has a traitline tied to it. But just because something fulfills that one thing does not mean that is is a class mechanic. As evidenced by stealth.
Edit – And under your logic, critical hits are a class mechanic of thieves due to the Critical Strikes traitline. Do you see why your argument that “Thieves have a traitline for stealth, so its a class mechanic” is silly now?
It’s not just Shadow Arts but also the Stealth Attacks which also tie Stealth even further to Thief which indirectly makes Stealth a Class Mechanic again name another class with the Unique Stealth Attacks and a Traitline Uniquely affecting stealth at every tier. There isn’t any.
Again without Stealth there is no Stealth Attacks, and since Stealth Attacks is a Thief Mechanic that ties Stealth to being a Thief mechanic on top of the Dedicated Traitline.
GW2 does not have “indirect” class mechanics. Either something is a class mechanic or it isn’t. Class mechanics are unique to each class, and furthermore they are the F skills. Stealth is neither. I understand that you think thief should have been the only class to have stealth, but this just isn’t the case.
Stealth attacks are a unique aspect of thieves, yes. But that does not mean that stealth is a thief class mechanic. It just isn’t, you are going to have to let go of that notion because its wrong. And again with the traitlines, convenient how you ignore Critical Strikes which buffs critical hits in every tier, yet I don’t see you claiming that critical hits are a thief class mechanic.
@TheDarkSoul – I agree that really the only thing that stealth needs is that applying damaging conditions should break stealth. Its beyond broken in design that you can deal damage to other players without breaking stealth. It doesn’t matter if the numbers are low, or if the build doesn’t have a lot of pressure. Its fundamentally broken to be able to deal any damage whatsoever without breaking stealth.
Reallly only f skills? So what about Initiative, energy, alacrity, Lifeforce Stealth Attacks Dual Wield Skills, those are all class mechanics as well. Go peruse those quotes again it says primary class mechanics are f skills, but again I was talking about how it’s a secondary class mechanic.
And let’s repeat it one more time, Name another class that Has a Class Mechanic Tief behind Stealth and stealth being tied to a dedicated Specialization? You keep avoiding that question. Is it because you can’t answer it.
And remember Consumed plasma? Need I say more?
And it’s hard to take people seriously on what are class mechanics when they don’t know the simplest skills from class mechanics especially one that is derived from their main class
Players on this forum need some reading comprehension or to fully read posts before replying.
(edited by BlaqueFyre.5678)
The laughably named stealth is always completely broken in open world PvP type game modes, which is why the stealth classes(s) are always such popular roamers, it is ezmode when you can disengage if you screw up. (apparently risk vs reward is an unknown concept to some)
As for GW2 specifically, two things, firstly it is hilarious looking back at pre-launch and how they hyped up how stealth would be different from the broken mechanic it was in other MMOs, that would it be a tool for re-positioning, yet what do we have stealth stacking (even engy can stack to the limit) and then a perma stealth build that doesn’t even come out of stealth when it attacks, it is laughable.
Secondly GW2 has about the most faceroll stealth system in existence, to take another game I play ESO, in that if I play nightblade (“the stealth class”), I get knocked out of stealth if I take damage, every single class has access to a reveal skill, because there is one in a general tree, that not only reveals, but reduces damage from stealth attacks by 50% for just having it slotted on your bar and then every class also has access to reveal pots which have a larger radius than any reveal skill in GW2 and also reveal for much longer, GW2 in comparison is so easy on stealth it is laughable.
(edited by zinkz.7045)
Stealth is not unique to thieves, and is not a class mechanic. Stealing and the initiative system are their class mechanic, which do have their own traitline as well. Class mechanics are mechanics that are unique to that class. Since stealth is not unique to thieves it, by definition, cannot be a class mechanic.
Like you said, one of the tells of a class mechanic is that it has a traitline tied to it. But just because something fulfills that one thing does not mean that is is a class mechanic. As evidenced by stealth.
Edit – And under your logic, critical hits are a class mechanic of thieves due to the Critical Strikes traitline. Do you see why your argument that “Thieves have a traitline for stealth, so its a class mechanic” is silly now?
It’s not just Shadow Arts but also the Stealth Attacks which also tie Stealth even further to Thief which indirectly makes Stealth a Class Mechanic again name another class with the Unique Stealth Attacks and a Traitline Uniquely affecting stealth at every tier. There isn’t any.
Again without Stealth there is no Stealth Attacks, and since Stealth Attacks is a Thief Mechanic that ties Stealth to being a Thief mechanic on top of the Dedicated Traitline.
GW2 does not have “indirect” class mechanics. Either something is a class mechanic or it isn’t. Class mechanics are unique to each class, and furthermore they are the F skills. Stealth is neither. I understand that you think thief should have been the only class to have stealth, but this just isn’t the case.
Stealth attacks are a unique aspect of thieves, yes. But that does not mean that stealth is a thief class mechanic. It just isn’t, you are going to have to let go of that notion because its wrong. And again with the traitlines, convenient how you ignore Critical Strikes which buffs critical hits in every tier, yet I don’t see you claiming that critical hits are a thief class mechanic.
@TheDarkSoul – I agree that really the only thing that stealth needs is that applying damaging conditions should break stealth. Its beyond broken in design that you can deal damage to other players without breaking stealth. It doesn’t matter if the numbers are low, or if the build doesn’t have a lot of pressure. Its fundamentally broken to be able to deal any damage whatsoever without breaking stealth.
Reallly only f skills? So what about Initiative, energy, alacrity, Lifeforce Stealth Attacks Dual Wield Skills, those are all class mechanics as well. Go peruse those quotes again it says primary class mechanics are f skills, but again I was talking about how it’s a secondary class mechanic.
And let’s repeat it one more time, Name another class that Has a Class Mechanic Tief behind Stealth and stealth being tied to a dedicated Specialization? You keep avoiding that question. Is it because you can’t answer it.
And remember Consumed plasma? Need I say more?
And it’s hard to take people seriously on what are class mechanics when they don’t know the simplest skills from class mechanics especially one that is derived from their main class
Players on this forum need some reading comprehension or to fully read posts before replying.
I’ll answer it as soon as you stop dodging and trying to derail the conversation. Its all you do in every thread. Tell me why you don’t consider critical hits to be a thief class mechanic even though thieves have an entire traitline dedicated to it. You can’t, and you won’t. But I guarantee that you will deflect and try to find a way to ignore that question and believe that you have “won” an argument.
All you do is attempt to derail and ignore questions that you cannot answer because you know the answer and it is the exact opposite of what you want people to believe. Stealth is not a thief class mechanic. Never has been, and never will be unless ANet removes it from every other class. But seeing as how you will steadfastly refuse to answer my question about critical strikes traitline and pretend as if it doesn’t exist, I don’t see a point in continuing to reply to you in this thread.
Yes, but look at the facts of 1. Thief is the only class with Stealth Attacks, which is tied behind what exactly? Oh right Stealth. And 2. A Specialization soley dedicated to What again? Oh yeah Stealth. So even though Stealth is not exclusive Thief has. Exclusive access to the Unique Stealth Attacks which can only exist while Stealthed. And 3. Anets main design of Thief was around Stealth which is why it’s one of two featured things one the Profession bio on the official webpage.
Again no other profession has an exclusive skill linked to or behind Stealth while Thief does
IMO stealth should have been exclusive to Thief, since it is the only class that has it built into the Core Concept and design of the class, then it would be easier to balance since any changes affecting Stealth would only affect Thief
Point 1 is moot atm due to the 1s cool down on them, they’re good for precast with steal and that’s about it. Even then changing stealth doesn’t necessarily change what the purpose of the stealth attack is, to give the opening advantage to the thief.
2. Again this doesn’t have to mean the trait line becomes useless or nerfed. I always said that SA should instead have been “when you enter stealth” rather than rewarding for camping. Even if stealth had a lock out of 10s (not saying it should be added before you run away with that comment) you will still get as much from the traits as most other classes get from theirs.
Thief should never have been balanced around a broken mechanic and it’s all the worse for it. The sooner stealth as a mechanic is made with real trade offs for being in stealth the better, for all classes including thieves.
snip
Snip.
Snip.
Reallly only f skills? So what about Initiative, energy, alacrity, Lifeforce Stealth Attacks Dual Wield Skills, those are all class mechanics as well. Go peruse those quotes again it says primary class mechanics are f skills, but again I was talking about how it’s a secondary class mechanic.
And let’s repeat it one more time, Name another class that Has a Class Mechanic Tief behind Stealth and stealth being tied to a dedicated Specialization? You keep avoiding that question. Is it because you can’t answer it.
And remember Consumed plasma? Need I say more?
And it’s hard to take people seriously on what are class mechanics when they don’t know the simplest skills from class mechanics especially one that is derived from their main class
Players on this forum need some reading comprehension or to fully read posts before replying.I’ll answer it as soon as you stop dodging and trying to derail the conversation. Its all you do in every thread. Tell me why you don’t consider critical hits to be a thief class mechanic even though thieves have an entire traitline dedicated to it. You can’t, and you won’t. But I guarantee that you will deflect and try to find a way to ignore that question and believe that you have “won” an argument.
All you do is attempt to derail and ignore questions that you cannot answer because you know the answer and it is the exact opposite of what you want people to believe. Stealth is not a thief class mechanic. Never has been, and never will be unless ANet removes it from every other class. But seeing as how you will steadfastly refuse to answer my question about critical strikes traitline and pretend as if it doesn’t exist, I don’t see a point in continuing to reply to you in this thread.
Swing how I asked my question without you answering multiple times besides your moot question, but here does Crit Strike change the classes skill in any way? No? Does it tie any mechanic behind it? No? So no Crit Strikes isn’t a mechanic since it doesn’t add to or modify it only increases damage Funny how that works isn’t it seems like you are grasping for straws here. Go ahead answer my question, but we both no you can’t.
Again when players don’t know simple mechanics that are from their own class can’t take them too seriously, again Consumed Plasma, ring any bells?
@apharma, yes Stealth needs a redesign and needs to be removed from classes that it was never designed around. But that is asking for Anet to almost overhaul a class as a whole at the basic level, which truth be told will more than likely never happen, they have difficulty shipping out balance patches that just tweak a few numbers.
again no other class has a class mechanic locked behind stealth or a dedicated Specialization for it, those aren’t moot points no matter how you want it to be. So based upon so much of the class revolving around Stealth make it’s a Class mechanic.
It would better if it was on entering stealth but again that would be too much work for Anet, based upon past patches.
it doesn’t matter that stealth isn’t a primary class mechanic of thief. so much of thief is built for stealth.
Again when players don’t know simple mechanics that are from their own class can’t take them too seriously, again Consumed Plasma, ring any bells?
@apharma, yes Stealth needs a redesign and needs to be removed from classes that it was never designed around. But that is asking for Anet to almost overhaul a class as a whole at the basic level, which truth be told will more than likely never happen, they have difficulty shipping out balance patches that just tweak a few numbers.
again no other class has a class mechanic locked behind stealth or a dedicated Specialization for it, those aren’t moot points no matter how you want it to be. So based upon so much of the class revolving around Stealth make it’s a Class mechanic.
It would better if it was on entering stealth but again that would be too much work for Anet, based upon past patches.
You should probably drop the consume plasma thing now, it makes you look pretty, that you’re deflecting and people can be wrong about stuff. You yourself were wrong about scrappers superspeed the other day but you don’t see people bringing it up all the time to bash you with, mistakes happen, people correct them and move on.
Stealth is not a thief only mechanic, it is at best a mechanic and at its basics a unique buff however mesmer, engineer and ranger have all had stealth from the beginning of the game. If increasing everyone’s access to a certain mechanic makes everyone stupidly strong then it’s the mechanic at fault not the classes. If these were just problems with 1 or 2 classes no-one would be able to complain but you give stealth to just about any class and it suddenly becomes rediculous.
Also stop this drama about “class mechanic locked behind stealth or a dedicated trait line” it is not locked behind anything, certainly not a trait line. To be clear here no-one or at least I wasn’t saying stealth should be removed from the game, I said it needs a proper trade off to it and it does. This wouldn’t affect thief stealth attacks. No, spending initiative is not a trade off as other classes expend cool downs and stealth shouldn’t be something you can hop in and out of all the time.
Something being a modest amount of work is no excuse for how poorly implemented stealth is in the game and it’s no excuse for how other mechanics should have been revisited by now. It also isn’t an excuse for classes being broken because of said mechanics, just because you don’t trust ANet to deal with something properly it doesn’t mean you have to pretend it’s all fine.
(edited by apharma.3741)
You should probably drop the consume plasma thing now, it makes you look pretty, that you’re deflecting and people can be wrong about stuff. You yourself were wrong about scrappers superspeed the other day but you don’t see people bringing it up all the time to bash you with, mistakes happen, people correct them and move on.
Stealth is not a thief only mechanic, it is at best a mechanic and at its basics a unique buff however mesmer, engineer and ranger have all had stealth from the beginning of the game. If increasing everyone’s access to a certain mechanic makes everyone stupidly strong then it’s the mechanic at fault not the classes. If these were just problems with 1 or 2 classes no-one would be able to complain but you give stealth to just about any class and it suddenly becomes rediculous.
Also stop this drama about “class mechanic locked behind stealth or a dedicated trait line” it is not locked behind anything, certainly not a trait line. To be clear here no-one or at least I wasn’t saying stealth should be removed from the game, I said it needs a proper trade off to it and it does. This wouldn’t affect thief stealth attacks. No, spending initiative is not a trade off as other classes expend cool downs and stealth shouldn’t be something you can hop in and out of all the time.
Something being a modest amount of work is no excuse for how poorly implemented stealth is in the game and it’s no excuse for how other mechanics should have been revisited by now. It also isn’t an excuse for classes being broken because of said mechanics, just because you don’t trust ANet to deal with something properly it doesn’t mean you have to pretend it’s all fine.
well said +1
Stealth is not a thief only mechanic, it is at best a mechanic and at its basics a unique buff however mesmer, engineer and ranger have all had stealth from the beginning of the game.
Actually ranged had camouflage the most useless stealth in this game. LB3 also applied camouflage.
it was later when the lb3 got upgraded to stealth.
In any case druid have only 2 self sources of stealth: LB3 and celestial shadow, each last for 3 seconds.
Thus making stealth not be able to stack in duration would fix most of the problems with stealth.
Stealth is not a thief only mechanic, it is at best a mechanic and at its basics a unique buff however mesmer, engineer and ranger have all had stealth from the beginning of the game.
Actually ranged had camouflage the most useless stealth in this game. LB3 also applied camouflage.
it was later when the lb3 got upgraded to stealth.
In any case druid have only 2 self sources of stealth: LB3 and celestial shadow, each last for 3 seconds.Thus making stealth not be able to stack in duration would fix most of the problems with stealth.
They can blast smokescale smoke field or leap through it for stealth too. Yeah sorry about the camouflage thing, it was changed just under a year after release before I started playing in October 2013.
I do agree that preventing it from stacking would fix a lot of problems with stealth, thief would need some skill changes though to balance it out as stealth attacks would be extremely hard to land. Shadow refuge would need redesigning too most likely.
(edited by apharma.3741)
Initially Rangers had 0 proper stealth abilities.
LB3 was updated to apply stealth about a year into the game, iirc.
Camouflage was activated on a trait. A useless trait, at that.
~ Kovu
(edited by Kovu.7560)
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