Guild Wars 2

Rin, man, you put so much work into this / which is amazing, not joking /, so much stuff to do, so many events, so much running around, dealing with supplies, escorting dolyaks, geez im already tired, before i even started. If they implement all your ideas, we are going to be soooo busy that there wont be any time left for some fights, just like in PvE or EOTM / i’m sorry, i know you gonna say again that i’m negative /. But seriously Rin, you guys – the PvE players – you have the whole game for you, even EOTM that was suppose to be a WvW map, on the other hand we – the WvW players – all we have are 4 maps and 3 of them looks exactly the same.
Again, your ideas are less fights more “escorting”. Why???, dont you already have enough of this? You wanna introduce WvW to the PvE players, why??? They had 2+ years for this, if they didn’t like it at the first time they never will. We dont need new PvE players in WvW, we need the old WvW players back, all the guilds that left, all that Anet had to do is to listen / not for everything, ofc / but for few things, like GvG, we literally beg them for GvG, guess what happen, even after they saw the growing GvG community, they did absolutely nothing.
Please dont try to adjust WvW for PvE players, try to make WvW better for the WvW players.
Again, thanks a lot for all the thoughts and work you put into this post.

Avit, I think you are raising some proper concerns and I do agree with how you feel about some of Rin’s ideas. We should not add PvE content that serves no purpose other than to fill up time or serve as a distraction. I don’t agree that Rin’s doing this to make WvW a place for PvE players, and I am wondering exactly how you think we can get WvW players back. One of the things I hear that guild groups hate is how difficult it can be to find encounters. It’s too easy for a zerg to run around and avoid confrontations. So if certain kinds of events and sieging mechanics of WvW were reworked, we could encourage a lot more confrontational play. There should also be more opportunities for smaller groups to contribute and in doing so find chances for combat.

Some thoughts on your responses, Rin:

• NPC/Monster Events: I have two objections to this, the first being that while entire maps shouldn’t get flipped just because one side is briefly outnumbered, artificially balancing matches is needless. This seems to me kind of like the breakout event, though possibly on a different scale. Matches have to play out so that the appropriate score can be determined to assign ranking. Secondly, I share the concern with many others about introducing an overwhelming PvE element to WvW. I am wondering what this sort of mechanic would offer to PvE/PvP players that they can’t already find in PvE, and why exactly it is worth forcing players to do PvE when they would rather PvP.

One alternative would be to introduce a PvP/WvW buff event, where an outnumbered group gets some special bonus. Possibly make it one that has more to do with siege/defense interactions instead of stat bonuses, with the goal of making a larger force temporarily switch to the defensive.

• Resource gathering/upgrade/dolyak loading: I’m still wondering how this improves experience. All I can see is that it’s an incentive to be in a particular spot which gives server bonuses and offers an opportunity for PvP encounters. I’m just wondering why it has to be worked as a separate event that involves bundles… which is why I made the suggestions for escorting and upgrade events. One thing you could do is have an announcement to the enemy and a delay for a special dolyak event, which would encourage a fight, but this seems easy to manipulate and a bit artificial.

• Dolyak escort: If you read my idea for giving map-wide WXP bonuses for events, I think this is something that would be great to add to successful dolyak escorts/kills. I think having a dolyak as a marker on the map for possible encounters is something that ought to be built upon. I’m not on board with Mishi’s idea, it seems like handing over a NPC job to a player which would be quite tedious. I just don’t see what problem it solves.

A few simple things could make WvW a much more immersive experience, like on-screen text declaring that an objective is under attack, seeing a train of yaks being fought over, having to fight off attackers as a structural upgrade is pushed through, or getting a share of the WXP when your zerg captures a keep because you helped by stopping reinforcements. Anyways keep throwing ideas at me, I know I’m a bit biased towards my own (so point out why they’re flawed).

Just a little tip for Anet, if they read this thread, i hope they do. After AA fail, alot of players/guilds are coming back, good guilds, big guilds with alot of players. If you guys have anything to announce, or to give us some info about WvW future, now is the moment to do so, IF, you want to make this players stick around, if not, this is just the next prove, that you really dont care that much about WvW.

I like this thread!

If you have some minutes to spend, please read the thread about quagganzilla.

I really love that idea and i’d like to have your opinion

“Higher than stonemist tower,
its breath is pure power,
it came for revenge
of quanggans temple end”

(horrible poetry, i know!)

@Avit – I understand your concern, and you do make a valid point. Maybe my ideas are too focused on PvE, and I will try to address that if I can. And that is part of the reason I started this thread. To discuss the ideas, fine tune them or come up with better ones. If the suggestions I made are too PvE oriented, and have no benefit to PvP what so ever, then fair enough. I’ll go back to the drawing board. But a part of me still feels they would benefit PvP in some way, even if it just meant more opportunities to find players.

As to the events being busy, well in a way that was kind of the point. At the moment, zergs win in WvW. Roamers and small groups might kill the odd dolly and take camps, but it doesn’t contribute a great deal when compared to how effective flipping locations with zergs can be. And part of the reason that occures is because that is all there is to do. Of course another part is because of easy rewards and easy content (yes a lot of players do it because its easy), and yet another reason is because its the most effective way to get points.

There are a few ways to improve this. One way is to improve the rewards, and how to aquire them. Another way is to change the way points are earned and lost. And another way is to create game flow mechanisms, to control the distribution and behaviour of players. And it is this last one that I am trying to improve upon with these events.

Bertrand.3057:

We should not add PvE content that serves no purpose other than to fill up time or serve as a distraction.

I agree with this completely. Any PvE content added should in some way improve the PvP.

Bertrand.3057:

One of the things I hear that guild groups hate is how difficult it can be to find encounters. It’s too easy for a zerg to run around and avoid confrontations. So if certain kinds of events and sieging mechanics of WvW were reworked, we could encourage a lot more confrontational play. There should also be more opportunities for smaller groups to contribute and in doing so find chances for combat.

This here is one of the main reasons for suggesting these events. I may not have got them right, but the intention was to increase confrontation between large and small groups.

Continued in next post…

Bertrand.3057:

• NPC/Monster Events: I have two objections to this, the first being that while entire maps shouldn’t get flipped just because one side is briefly outnumbered, artificially balancing matches is needless. This seems to me kind of like the breakout event, though possibly on a different scale. Matches have to play out so that the appropriate score can be determined to assign ranking. Secondly, I share the concern with many others about introducing an overwhelming PvE element to WvW. I am wondering what this sort of mechanic would offer to PvE/PvP players that they can’t already find in PvE, and why exactly it is worth forcing players to do PvE when they would rather PvP.

Yes, I must admit when I suggested the dynamic nature of this event I hadn’t considered how it would effect world ranking. That would be an issue. However, what appears to be a very big issue with world ranking and match making at the moment is when a high ranked world completes against a low ranked world. The difference between them is striking and often makes the players feel bored/frustrated (depending on which side they’re on).

I will try to put more thought into this idea and see if I can find a way to improve upon it. If not, I’ll reject it and try to think of something else.

Just out of interest, why do you feel artificial balancing is needless? Many PvP games have some form of balancing, even if it is just moving players from one team to the other to balance the numbers.

Bertrand.3057:

• Resource gathering/upgrade/dolyak loading: I’m still wondering how this improves experience. All I can see is that it’s an incentive to be in a particular spot which gives server bonuses and offers an opportunity for PvP encounters. I’m just wondering why it has to be worked as a separate event that involves bundles… which is why I made the suggestions for escorting and upgrade events. One thing you could do is have an announcement to the enemy and a delay for a special dolyak event, which would encourage a fight, but this seems easy to manipulate and a bit artificial.

I guess the bundles are there just to give you something to do while you wait for enemy players. It is not ideal, I agree. I will try to put more though into this one. Supply camps should be a highly important location to keep hold of, not something to lose without worry and easily recapture when needed.

Bertrand.3057:

• Dolyak escort: If you read my idea for giving map-wide WXP bonuses for events, I think this is something that would be great to add to successful dolyak escorts/kills. I think having a dolyak as a marker on the map for possible encounters is something that ought to be built upon. I’m not on board with Mishi’s idea, it seems like handing over a NPC job to a player which would be quite tedious. I just don’t see what problem it solves.

Yes, I like the map-wide WXP idea, it would be a way to encourage certain activities a bit more. On the subject of WXP, what if instead of rewarding players at the end of a Dolyak escort event, the reward is given over time, periodically while in the Dolyak escort circle?

As to Mishi’s idea, to me it is another way to increase PvP opportunities. If the cart was visible on the map to enemies it could provide players with an active way of getting into combat situations, while at the same time helping their world. I guess the only problem would be to make sure players didn’t abuse the system by using it just to invite enemies to fight them.

Bertrand.3057:

A few simple things could make WvW a much more immersive experience, like on-screen text declaring that an objective is under attack, seeing a train of yaks being fought over, having to fight off attackers as a structural upgrade is pushed through, or getting a share of the WXP when your zerg captures a keep because you helped by stopping reinforcements. Anyways keep throwing ideas at me, I know I’m a bit biased towards my own (so point out why they’re flawed).

I agree that we need more indicators on the map. I think we also need more power to commanders and scouts. Commanders need the ability to create different waypoints and scouts need a way to reveal enemy movements on the map.

Rin.1046 – No matter what we do, or what we say Anet killed WvW in 3 steps, 1st – step was when they removed the Orb and fail to replaced with something else, this was a huge mistake, 2nd step – removing the the Match-up forum, that killed the WvW spirit, the lack of reward / and i dont mean the personal reward / but the final reward, the BIG reward, like if you win this week your whole server wins “THIS”, and im not talking about + 200 MF or some other s__t that Anet like to give from time to time, but something that worth to fight for, in someway that reward was Match-up forum, the drama and the intrigue, that was what makes people coming back for more.
3th step – Megaserver a.k.a MegaBS, before MegaBS all we had to fight for was our server names, now with the MegaBS none gives kitten for his server, thats why, this days every one stack on one server, the "TOP"one.
So, again, no matter what we do or what we say, WvW is broken to the point that cant be fix, no events, no escorts, no balance, nothing can fix it, and if someone thinks, that Anet are going to lift even one finger to try, Man, i feel sorry for him, all the money you spent in Gem store will go E-sport reward, not a single dime gets to WvW. If you ask me the whole https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv is waste of time, nothing will ever come out from here, just a empty words, and frankly i’m very surprised that WvW forum still exist and they didn’t removed with same excuse they removed the Match-up forum / very toxic /.
But, hey, if you wanna practice your typing skills and you dont have any better things to do, please keep trying. I wish you to have a luckier than thousands of others before you.

Avit, I can understand your frustrations, I truely can. You, like many others (myself included), want to see major improvements to the core WvW experience and that doesn’t seem to be happening. And Anet’s silence in the WvW forum hasn’t helped. So I do understand why you are annoyed. It annoys me too sometimes.

I might be dellusional, but I still think Anet has plans for WvW and I do not think they have abandoned it. I am sure they are working away on it, silently in the background.

One of the problems I see is that Anet appears to be putting all it’s focus on the Living Story content. I am sure they are not, but it looks that way to us because it gets regular updates, while the other areas of the game do not. If WvW and sPvP got similar biweekly, or even monthly, updates I suspect the player base would be less frustrated.

Regular PvE updates doesn’t mean that WvW and sPvP are not being looked at, discussed and worked on by other teams. But what do I know, I’m not on the dev team. Only they can tell us what’s going on behind closed doors, and they have (unfortunately) chosen not to let us be involved.

Anyway, all this really is going off topic, so I will end it there. I understand your anger, but I enjoy discussing these things anyway, even if I know it is likely nothing will come of it.

Avit, the way I see it, you wrote out a post that explained your feelings pretty well but it was all negative. While I don’t necessarily disagree with what you said, I don’t think there is any thing that can be accomplished with such a post. So why not put your energy, if you will put in any at all, into making better ideas like Rin is trying to do?

I don’t frequent these forums as much now but I liked what was started here which is why I hopped in.