While many focus on epidemic, mitigation and condi damage output, there is still one major factor at play here. condi’s remain uncapped allowing burns and bleeds to reach insane levels. imo a 3 part solution is needed
1, cap them to 20. while it still hurts a ton of you have full stacks of 2 of the damaging condis, it will force those wishing to coordinate condi bombs to at least play different builds.
2. have an overall cap to conditions. so start with Max 40 stacks across the board. blindly spamming conditions will weaken the strength of a focused bomb since it will take away possible stacks but still make it hurt. this doesn’t hurt small man play, but will hurt those groups that hide in zergs who focus on epi bombing alone.
3. highest stacked condition should be cleansed first. drawback is that the effect based conditions that don’t stack will remain on for longer putting you at risk to direct damage.
Even if #2 can’t be implented, #1 and #3 would help balance the playing field. the goal in my opinion is to make smart condition play be essential alongside power based builds. with the cleanse change alone, chills/weakness/crippled become more persistant, but vulnerability is cleared more often. torment and confusion will still be powerful as they are often low stacks of 5 and under, so coordinating cleansed will be needed to counter conditions.
A cleansing hierarchy would definitely help.
As for points 1 and 2 though, it’d be better in the long run to just bring resistance in line with protection and rebalance condi application and skills that give resistance around that. This way, it wouldn’t even be possible to get that many stacks on you without dying which would make it a non issue.
I could see a system where classes were limited to 1 type of damage condition which would make them unique to class type. However, there would have to be a revamp on condition cleanse as it is currently way to easy to clear 1 type of condition damage.
An example of this would be like the Guardian that has only fire as a primary damage source. This would also prevent condition bombing with multiple damage types from 1 source.
Utility skills like thief traps would have to be revamped to do only the condition damage that is unique to there class.
Examples (this can be expounded on by others)
Necro: torment
Guardian: fire
Thief: poison
Mesmer: confusion
Just my opinion that would not be game breaking but take some serious thought, consideration and revamping on the part of the Devs.
Very interesting take on condis. I imagine that if cleanses were changed to remove X stacks of conditions instead of X conditions it could still be balanced (though it might take a few rounds of balancing to get the cleanses right). However, I would say to let each profession have 2-3 damaging condis instead of just 1, but have that be all they can apply (which would necessitate the complete removal/change of all sigils/rune effects that apply damaging condis). 2-3 allows for more diversity, while still allowing for conditions builds to be viable in all game modes. As it stands, confusion and torment are still pretty kitten weak in PvE 99% of the time, so limiting Necro and Mesmer like that wouldn’t be ideal. But if they focused primarily around torment/confusion, with smaller amounts of other damaging conditions, it could still be made to work in PvE without homogenizing the damaging conditions too much.
Neat idea overall!
Very interesting take on condis. I imagine that if cleanses were changed to remove X stacks of conditions instead of X conditions it could still be balanced (though it might take a few rounds of balancing to get the cleanses right). However, I would say to let each profession have 2-3 damaging condis instead of just 1, but have that be all they can apply (which would necessitate the complete removal/change of all sigils/rune effects that apply damaging condis). 2-3 allows for more diversity, while still allowing for conditions builds to be viable in all game modes. As it stands, confusion and torment are still pretty kitten weak in PvE 99% of the time, so limiting Necro and Mesmer like that wouldn’t be ideal. But if they focused primarily around torment/confusion, with smaller amounts of other damaging conditions, it could still be made to work in PvE without homogenizing the damaging conditions too much.
Neat idea overall!
Good idea input, the devs could also rework weaker damage conditions so they all have equal impact in all game modes. Kind of how fire does SO much damage but its a single condition.
It only takes about 10 stacks of burning, confusion or poison to drop a player fast (as in a few seconds). IMO, I kill most players with about 5 stacks of confusion and a half dozen total stacks to cover it. This is why Epi is so strong right now. People rightfully complain about the giant bomb but often miss the one that dropped 25 total stacks since Epi doesn’t appear in the combat log.
I think a stack limit is a good thing but it probably won’t solve anything outside of the spectacular Epi bombs.
I think capping Condi stacks in WvW (and PvP, though I never play it, so I don’t know \how much of an issue it is. ) to 25 would be nice, though also lowering the damage coefficients on conditions would be a solution, too.
I could see a system where classes were limited to 1 type of damage condition which would make them unique to class type. However, there would have to be a revamp on condition cleanse as it is currently way to easy to clear 1 type of condition damage.
An example of this would be like the Guardian that has only fire as a primary damage source. This would also prevent condition bombing with multiple damage types from 1 source.
Utility skills like thief traps would have to be revamped to do only the condition damage that is unique to there class.
Examples (this can be expounded on by others)
Necro: torment
Guardian: fire
Thief: poison
Mesmer: confusionJust my opinion that would not be game breaking but take some serious thought, consideration and revamping on the part of the Devs.
Serious thought?? Are you serious?
I tell you seriously, your thoughts made here on this are not worth 5 pennies as you truly don’t have any clues about it, how much your “idea” here would totally destroy the whole game.
You think naively, only because the Guardian was designed mainly around Burning, that this simply has to work also for all other 8 classes??
Do you have even the slightest understanding about it, what for incredible consequences such a massive rework would mean to the whole game, if suddenly all classes would be designed like the Guardian and would be able from one moment to the next to deal suddenly only 1 single damage condition???
All classes would instantly turn boring as kitten, all classes would become totally predictable, would lose completely all over the place lots of their build diversity…
Seriously, this has to be the very worst idea Ive ever read in my whole time I play this game and am in this forum since 2012’s release day.
Also way too much skill and trait revamping for all of this, not to mention also Upgrades like Runes and Sigils, even if this stuff is also in a serious need of being rebalanced more.
(edited by Orpheal.8263)
Best changes Anet can do to make Conditions in the game more balanced are:
The only 8 Conditions that GW2 needs are:
- Poison = Low Damage DoT + Healing Efficiency Reduction, Long Durations
- Burning = High Damage DoT, Vulnerability Effect, spreads over to adjacents, Low Durations
- Cripple = Medium Damage DoT, Small Movement Reduction, Increased Damage on Skill Usage/Movement, Medium Durations
- Slow = Attack Speed & Skill Cooldown Speed Reductions
- Confusion = Friendly Fire Deactivation & Boon Efficiency Reduction
- Blindness = Chance to Miss Targets & Critical Hit Chance Reduction
- Chill = Endurance Regen Reduction & Boon Duration Reduction
- Petrification = Strong Movement Reduction (like earlier Chill), Deactivates Weapon Change and Dodge Rolls temporarely
More isn’t needed together with Condition Stack rebalance for WvW&PvP to brign back Conditions back in line into the game.
Everything after this is just finetuning Skills, Traits & Upgrades to the reworked Conditions & Boons.
I could see a system where classes were limited to 1 type of damage condition which would make them unique to class type. However, there would have to be a revamp on condition cleanse as it is currently way to easy to clear 1 type of condition damage.
An example of this would be like the Guardian that has only fire as a primary damage source. This would also prevent condition bombing with multiple damage types from 1 source.
Utility skills like thief traps would have to be revamped to do only the condition damage that is unique to there class.
Examples (this can be expounded on by others)
Necro: torment
Guardian: fire
Thief: poison
Mesmer: confusionJust my opinion that would not be game breaking but take some serious thought, consideration and revamping on the part of the Devs.
Serious thought?? Are you serious?
I tell you seriously, your thoughts made here on this are not worth 5 pennies as you truly don’t have any clues about it, how much your “idea” here would totally destroy the whole game.
You think naively, only because the Guardian was designed mainly around Burning, that this simply has to work also for all other 8 classes??Do you have even the slightest understanding about it, what for incredible consequences such a massive rework would mean to the whole game, if suddenly all classes would be designed like the Guardian and would be able from one moment to the next to deal suddenly only 1 single damage condition???
All classes would instantly turn boring as kitten, all classes would become totally predictable, would lose completely all over the place lots of their build diversity…
Seriously, this has to be the very worst idea Ive ever read in my whole time I play this game and am in this forum since 2012’s release day.
Also way too much skill and trait revamping for all of this, not to mention also Upgrades like Runes and Sigils, even if this stuff is also in a serious need of being rebalanced more.
Liiike OMG Girlfriend! NO HE DIDN"T! SERIOUSLY….!!!
LIKE the whole game BOOOM!!!
SHUUUTTUPPP i’m going to the mall now!
Ya, go shop into the mall and don’t waste your time here anymore here with carefree ideas that would ruin the game only.
That would be only better for the game and everyone of us, that would like actually to KEEP build diversity and not throw it like you just out of the window as like an omg girlfriend who just acts prematurely and doesn’t think things over first before doing something – that among the thrown out things could have been potentially also something very important you wanted to keep with the all the stuff thats now lieing scrapped on the streets.
At least by reducing the amount of conditions and reworking their effects through merges and giving them as likes Boons as well Dual Effects, would make Boons and Conditions more impactful for the game#s combat system, while keeping at least also some build diversity and making classes not boring and predictable for doing all the time only one and the same damaging condition.
By reducing the total amount of combat effects, this would also drastically reduce the condition spam in this game, and it would improve also at the same time the game performance (lesser lags)
I surely don’t shut up, only because you say so.. how naive (and out of arguments) are you???
Also reducing Conditions/Boons and making them more effectful wouldn’t require by far as much complete Skill/Trait and Upgrade reworks, as like your proposal of turning 8 of 9 classes into boring 1 sided condition spammers, what makes also out of the context no sense at all, because the game also doesn’t provide 9 different damage conditions.
To realize your bad suggestion would even require first to increase the game with even more obsolete conditions, just so that each class could have its own unique damaging condition, as you were even only able to give 4 out of 9 classes a unique damaging condition as there exist so far only 5 damaging conditions and the game needs maximum only 3.
1 Low Damage long Duration one (Poison)
1 High Damage Low Duration one (Burning)
1 Medium Damage Medium Duration one (Torment which I would merge into Cripple as it should hurt you logically while moving with crippled/broken legs as it should hurt you to fight with crippled/broken arms)
If this game needs one thing absolutely not, then its tons of more conditions!
It needs lesser of them as also lesser Boons.
The Effect Spam of this game has to get reduced, then will become Game Balance automatically with it also easier for ANet!
Theres a saying with “Too many cooks spoil the broth”
The very same it is with Effects of any sort (Conditions/Boons/Passives from Traits/Upgrades) in a MMORPG “Too many effects spoil the Game Balance”.
Ya, go shop into the mall and don’t waste your time here anymore here with carefree ideas that would ruin the game only.
That would be only better for the game and everyone of us, that would like actually to KEEP build diversity and not throw it like you just out of the window as like an omg girlfriend who just acts prematurely and doesn’t think things over first before doing something – that among the thrown out things could have been potentially also something very important you wanted to keep with the all the stuff thats now lieing scrapped on the streets.At least by reducing the amount of conditions and reworking their effects through merges and giving them as likes Boons as well Dual Effects, would make Boons and Conditions more impactful for the game#s combat system, while keeping at least also some build diversity and making classes not boring and predictable for doing all the time only one and the same damaging condition.
By reducing the total amount of combat effects, this would also drastically reduce the condition spam in this game, and it would improve also at the same time the game performance (lesser lags)
I surely don’t shut up, only because you say so.. how naive (and out of arguments) are you???Also reducing Conditions/Boons and making them more effectful wouldn’t require by far as much complete Skill/Trait and Upgrade reworks, as like your proposal of turning 8 of 9 classes into boring 1 sided condition spammers, what makes also out of the context no sense at all, because the game also doesn’t provide 9 different damage conditions.
To realize your bad suggestion would even require first to increase the game with even more obsolete conditions, just so that each class could have its own unique damaging condition, as you were even only able to give 4 out of 9 classes a unique damaging condition as there exist so far only 5 damaging conditions and the game needs maximum only 3.
1 Low Damage long Duration one (Poison)
1 High Damage Low Duration one (Burning)
1 Medium Damage Medium Duration one (Torment which I would merge into Cripple as it should hurt you logically while moving with crippled/broken legs as it should hurt you to fight with crippled/broken arms)If this game needs one thing absolutely not, then its tons of more conditions!
It needs lesser of them as also lesser Boons.
The Effect Spam of this game has to get reduced, then will become Game Balance automatically with it also easier for ANet!Theres a saying with “Too many cooks spoil the broth”
The very same it is with Effects of any sort (Conditions/Boons/Passives from Traits/Upgrades) in a MMORPG “Too many effects spoil the Game Balance”.
I honestly have no idea how to respond to this nonsense. You’re original post sounded like a 13 year old valley girl so I made fun of you.
The OP wanted to discuss options to help the current condition situation in WvW. My suggestion was to limit the different condition damage application types to 1 per class. My thief currently has access to 4 different damage conditions and by limiting them to 1 it would take care of 3 cover conditions thereby making it easier to cleanse.
However, this would not ruin the class as it doesn’t for a condition Guardian who has access to only 1 condition damage type. Albeit a condition damage rework would be needed to make those single damage conditions more powerful to keep condition builds competitive. I am in no way trying to say every class needs a guardian style mechanic.
The simple ides is to cut down on single classes condition bombing capabilities.
“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it”.
-Aristotle
You missed the boat bro, let the big boys talk and go sit in your 2012 try hard corner.
I could see a system where classes were limited to 1 type of damage condition which would make them unique to class type
I am in no way trying to say every class needs a guardian style mechanic.
What the hell was then this what you have written before? Your kind of inner schizophrene twin in you who has written the completely opposite of what you say now??
Because what you have written first EXACTLY would mean that you want to turn all classes into guardian style mechanic carbon copies which having all unique limited to 1 damaging conditions!!!
You even listed up 4 examples from the current 5 existing damage conditions and if you just would be able to add 1+1, then you suggestion automatically would mean, that Anet would have to implement for your suggestion for each class having a unique damaging condition 4 conditions more. Now what is please nonsense?
Your stuff is complete nuts, because you literally suggest to balance conditions to remove build diversity from 8 out of 9 classes and turn them into guardian style classes and add 4 more obsolete new damage conditions??
Sorry, I don’t need you to make fun of me. You make yourself look like a fool already, thats good enough of a laugh for today for me.
Albeit a condition damage rework would be needed to make those single damage conditions more powerful
Conditions don’t need to become even more powerful!! Are you totally nuts???
If there is anythign needed in regard of Condition Damage, then a proper way of mitigating it and reducing the incoming damage aspect from them by either limiting the amount of Stacks for PvP/WvW, or by giving the Game through the rework of the Attribute System a way for Character progression with that players can do something so that their characters become through the help of the reworked Attribute Effects more resistent for Condition Damage &/or their Durations.
In regard of this is a rework of the Resistance Boon neccessary, or it could be basically be removed completely then as it was from begin on just a very bad bandaid solution that Anet added.
If you want to reduce “single class condition bombing” as you say, then you would focus yourself not on the damaging conditions, because no class has huge access to like all damage conditions – classes are designed around 1 to 3 damage conditions maximum from Weapon(s) unless created to “random parameters” with each condition beign differently easy on access to them.
Take the Mesmer for example.
By Design access to all conditions, but its always random either, or by design focused on confusion or torment, very rarely on burning.
Yes, its traits increase it with more focus onto Bleeding. But you go then also for a serious Condition Build if you use those Traits and lack therefore in the Direct Power
If we would turn now like you want it the Mesmer into a single condition machine, thats focused like the guardian only onto 1 damage condition – Confusion, playing the mesmer would become alot more boring, and predictable, if you know as player, that the only harmful condition they could deal against you would be now suddenly just only confusion and it could be removed much quicker now, because theres now suddenly also alot lesser cover conditions that deal damage also as well and keep the significant damaging condition(s)from being removed too quickly.
Before you even talk about big boys, please change first your full diapers, because they stink already from the big load you fabricated here.
If you want just a dumbed down game for babies, please go play Tetris, as this seems to be more the game for the likes of you.
What comes next?
Reduce all Weapons for all Classes to just only 1, because its unfair, that some classes can have only 1 Weapon, while others two? /sarcasm
I could see a system where classes were limited to 1 type of damage condition which would make them unique to class type
I am in no way trying to say every class needs a guardian style mechanic.
What the hell was then this what you have written before? Your kind of inner schizophrene twin in you who has written the completely opposite of what you say now??
Because what you have written first EXACTLY would mean that you want to turn all classes into guardian style mechanic carbon copies which having all unique limited to 1 damaging conditions!!!
You even listed up 4 examples from the current 5 existing damage conditions and if you just would be able to add 1+1, then you suggestion automatically would mean, that Anet would have to implement for your suggestion for each class having a unique damaging condition 4 conditions more. Now what is please nonsense?
Your stuff is complete nuts, because you literally suggest to balance conditions to remove build diversity from 8 out of 9 classes and turn them into guardian style classes and add 4 more obsolete new damage conditions??Sorry, I don’t need you to make fun of me. You make yourself look like a fool already, thats good enough of a laugh for today for me.
Albeit a condition damage rework would be needed to make those single damage conditions more powerful
Conditions don’t need to become even more powerful!! Are you totally nuts???
If there is anythign needed in regard of Condition Damage, then a proper way of mitigating it and reducing the incoming damage aspect from them by either limiting the amount of Stacks for PvP/WvW, or by giving the Game through the rework of the Attribute System a way for Character progression with that players can do something so that their characters become through the help of the reworked Attribute Effects more resistent for Condition Damage &/or their Durations.
In regard of this is a rework of the Resistance Boon neccessary, or it could be basically be removed completely then as it was from begin on just a very bad bandaid solution that Anet added.If you want to reduce “single class condition bombing” as you say, then you would focus yourself not on the damaging conditions, because no class has huge access to like all damage conditions – classes are designed around 1 to 3 damage conditions maximum from Weapon(s) unless created to “random parameters” with each condition beign differently easy on access to them.
Take the Mesmer for example.By Design access to all conditions, but its always random either, or by design focused on confusion or torment, very rarely on burning.
Yes, its traits increase it with more focus onto Bleeding. But you go then also for a serious Condition Build if you use those Traits and lack therefore in the Direct PowerIf we would turn now like you want it the Mesmer into a single condition machine, thats focused like the guardian only onto 1 damage condition – Confusion, playing the mesmer would become alot more boring, and predictable, if you know as player, that the only harmful condition they could deal against you would be now suddenly just only confusion and it could be removed much quicker now, because theres now suddenly also alot lesser cover conditions that deal damage also as well and keep the significant damaging condition(s)from being removed too quickly.
Before you even talk about big boys, please change first your full diapers, because they stink already from the big load you fabricated here.
If you want just a dumbed down game for babies, please go play Tetris, as this seems to be more the game for the likes of you.What comes next?
Reduce all Weapons for all Classes to just only 1, because its unfair, that some classes can have only 1 Weapon, while others two? /sarcasm
This post just went full blown short bus, white helmet kittened…
OP sorry bro, I know what you were trying to accomplish with your original thought and we were going in a good direction with ideas and options for grown folks to talk about and consider.
Back in the day we used to call that brainstorming…
Unfortunately this diaper baby joined the conversation ruined the brainstorming session.
Devs you can close this thread now it no longer carries any merit or insight.
(edited by Siphon.8405)
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.