Guild Wars 2

I just drop a stealth trap. They usually trip it, and then they’re dead. Most of those who’ve whispered afterwards have been friendly enough, with no salt for getting got.

I have to use a trap because I’ve got no access to reveal otherwise.

When you are a new player and you were killed in 5 sec without seeing what did that, it is pretty justified to assume there is something wrong with the game.
Maybe this is one of the reasons why WvW is dying
And don’t tell me, trapper thiefs, you don’t realize that when you troll low rank players

trapper thief is about as troll any con build in the game lol.

Taobella.6597:

trapper thief is about as troll any con build in the game lol.

That is not accurate at all
The only close thing is a PU Condi Mesmer, but I can see who attacks, it can’t spike, and majority of build can just run away from it with just a little bit of condi clense

Well if condi dmg is ok to apply from stealth and dose not brake it why not remove all dmg on effects that are mainly condi dmg for other stealth classes. Lets let mez Confusing Images do 0 dmg and apply its full confusion with out brake it stealth and lets Winds of Chaos do 0 dmg making it no longer break stealth. Lets set it up so you can simply cut off power dmg altogether and only apply condis and never brake stealth.

Do you see the problem yet? Its not about the effects not doing dmg (having them do dmg lets them have a real skill play to not lose your stealth) its about having condi as a dmg type that is so much stronger then power dmg that you can sit in stealth all day long and still kill ppl with no real counter play. Things are bad enofe that condi only needs one combo attribute to make it strong where power needs up to 3 different type of combos attribute to make it strong but you can do condi dmg from complete safety something that power dmg cant do. It would be like power dmg being out to life steal so much hp that they would heal to full hp at any %.

Its not an thf only problem but thf is the best example of a glaring balancing problem of the dmg types in GW2 over all.

XTR.9604:

omg people it is so easy to beat this kind of thief… Just walk away… Literally, just walk away from them and you take away their power completely. The only way they can beat you is if you’re stupid enough to stand there and try to fight something you can’t see.

Always love this kind of advice. RUN AWAY PEOPLE!

#ForumLogic2016……

Run away. That’s what they do on FA for a living! Get your nikes out, we need to run faster!

shagwell.1349:

Run away. That’s what they do on FA for a living! Get your nikes out, we need to run faster!

Not very good roamers at all so far. Or they just run in a pack of condi and make a youtube video.

If this were your tipycal mmorpg i could agree on running away for ex: dps vs healler or tank vs dps, but since this game has no holy trinity concept why tha F should i ran away from anyone if every class should have the tools to fight of every other class? Thats the point of this game since launch, not needing babysitters and ANET allowing a build in game that can render other classes vulnerable with such ease is just proof of low consideration torwards their customers. months of complaining in wvw forums about class balance and builds necessary and no feedback no discussion no nothing. whats best is everytime they see a post like this they will delete it saying we infracted or did not contribute with positive feedback. god forbid they let our discontent be shown.

DeceiverX.8361:

Famine.7915:

One necro with passive plague proc wins against that trap thief build. :/

Actually, no, it doesn’t; it has the hardest time of all professions against this build. Necro will always lose to ghost thief because all of its cleanses except Consume are transfers which depend on the thief being targeted or will easily miss/can be dodged through like Staff 4. Reaper doesn’t have the mobility or range to keep up, and core necro lacks cleaves and depends on a target to do anything.

On the contrary, I have never had a hard time against a ghost thief on a necro. The necro trait “Plague Sending” is all I have used in those encounters. It does not miss because it procs on hit. As for keeping up, who gives a kitten. I give him his own conditions and let him wheelbarrow away. More or less, I have always ignored ghost thieves.

Offair.2563:

XTR.9604:

omg people it is so easy to beat this kind of thief… Just walk away… Literally, just walk away from them and you take away their power completely. The only way they can beat you is if you’re stupid enough to stand there and try to fight something you can’t see.

Always love this kind of advice. RUN AWAY PEOPLE!

#ForumLogic2016……

Just walk away lol.. You don’t even have to run. That thief build is only able to kill someone that tries to fight them and stands there eating the condi bomb. I know this because I’ve played the build personally and it can’t do much against the person who decides to walk away. Some of those thieves will try to pursue you if you do and they’ll break their combo and get stuck out of stealth for a moment and you can usually kill them quick depending on your class and skill level. I beat those thieves on my condi warrior easily by pressing 2 buttons if they are ever out of stealth.

Not saying run away from all the fights, I’m saying just walk away from these thieves because there is no sense in standing there and letting them kill you waiting for your chance to see them. You have better chances of them breaking their stealth combo by making them chase you. Most of them won’t chase because they know they won’t get you if you aren’t standing around letting them kill you.

XTR.9604:

Offair.2563:

XTR.9604:

omg people it is so easy to beat this kind of thief… Just walk away… Literally, just walk away from them and you take away their power completely. The only way they can beat you is if you’re stupid enough to stand there and try to fight something you can’t see.

Always love this kind of advice. RUN AWAY PEOPLE!

#ForumLogic2016……

Just walk away lol.. You don’t even have to run. That thief build is only able to kill someone that tries to fight them and stands there eating the condi bomb. I know this because I’ve played the build personally and it can’t do much against the person who decides to walk away. Some of those thieves will try to pursue you if you do and they’ll break their combo and get stuck out of stealth for a moment and you can usually kill them quick depending on your class and skill level. I beat those thieves on my condi warrior easily by pressing 2 buttons if they are ever out of stealth.

Not saying run away from all the fights, I’m saying just walk away from these thieves because there is no sense in standing there and letting them kill you waiting for your chance to see them. You have better chances of them breaking their stealth combo by making them chase you. Most of them won’t chase because they know they won’t get you if you aren’t standing around letting them kill you.

As they can root you chill you and cripple you i like to see you walk away.

Your just rationalizing a type of game play that IS explored. If you could do this with any other class that not stealth but simply unhitable for a long time or until they hit you with a physical attk you would call that op and game braking. But for some reason because it stealth and not being able to see where the person is at all its some how ok?

Not only is stealth with free conid application a problem but i want you to put a side by side conid dmg dps vs physical power dps on moving players and see what it looks like.

Anet needs to addressed this glaring balancing problem in spvp and wvw.

I still think that doing any type of damage, whether condi or physical should reveal you. Being able to kill your opponent and never be seen is just terrible game design and not the least bit fun for those on the receiving end. I always bring enough condi cleanse that they can’t hurt me, but that’s not the point. Troll builds just shouldn’t exist on any class. Fights should be fun for BOTH people involved. This sort of thing is not the least bit fun to encounter and should be removed because of that. Condi mes and condi thief are called cancer for a reason. They arent the least bit fun to go up against. Even if they can’t kill you, its just pure trolliness. Builds that let you be an annoying pest and harass people have no place in a game like this where the main draw of the game is the active combat system.

If they can’t kill you who is trolling whom?

Nikkinella.8254:

I still think that doing any type of damage, whether condi or physical should reveal you. Being able to kill your opponent and never be seen is just terrible game design and not the least bit fun for those on the receiving end. I always bring enough condi cleanse that they can’t hurt me, but that’s not the point. Troll builds just shouldn’t exist on any class. Fights should be fun for BOTH people involved. This sort of thing is not the least bit fun to encounter and should be removed because of that. Condi mes and condi thief are called cancer for a reason. They arent the least bit fun to go up against. Even if they can’t kill you, its just pure trolliness. Builds that let you be an annoying pest and harass people have no place in a game like this where the main draw of the game is the active combat system.

Make sure its just on application not on tick it would become too hard to stealth on condi build then. That realty all that needs to be done. I would not mind seeing more limitation to what conid types classes has no one should have every conid dmg type because to counter it you need to be all in counter set up. Passive confusion is a bit too high of a tick too it should be sub bleed but active should still hit hard.

saerni.2584:

If they can’t kill you who is trolling whom?

Whom ever is balancing the dmg types?

Or the HR of Anet being unwilling to fire / or reprimand there workers for doing less then a good job or simply doing a slow / low impact job (i mean its like this game dose not even have an balancing team just a team that throws things agent the wall and see what sticks.)

Jski.6180:

Nikkinella.8254:

I still think that doing any type of damage, whether condi or physical should reveal you. Being able to kill your opponent and never be seen is just terrible game design and not the least bit fun for those on the receiving end. I always bring enough condi cleanse that they can’t hurt me, but that’s not the point. Troll builds just shouldn’t exist on any class. Fights should be fun for BOTH people involved. This sort of thing is not the least bit fun to encounter and should be removed because of that. Condi mes and condi thief are called cancer for a reason. They arent the least bit fun to go up against. Even if they can’t kill you, its just pure trolliness. Builds that let you be an annoying pest and harass people have no place in a game like this where the main draw of the game is the active combat system.

Make sure its just on application not on tick it would become too hard to stealth on condi build then. That realty all that needs to be done. I would not mind seeing more limitation to what conid types classes has no one should have every conid dmg type because to counter it you need to be all in counter set up. Passive confusion is a bit too high of a tick too it should be sub bleed but active should still hit hard.

saerni.2584:

If they can’t kill you who is trolling whom?

Whom ever is balancing the dmg types?

Or the HR of Anet being unwilling to fire / or reprimand there workers for doing less then a good job or simply doing a slow / low impact job (i mean its like this game dose not even have an balancing team just a team that throws things agent the wall and see what sticks.)

The only reason they changed confusion before is because of pve. it was useless there. WvW suffered as a result of this pve change. They just need 2 separate versions of it like they do for retaliation. The wvw version needs to go back to how it was before so it only does damage if you use skills and wont passively tick. Torment needs to be the same way for wvw as well, only doing damage on movement and not passively tick. condi spam mesmers wont be as OP as they are now with those changes. If people want to run those troll builds, you’d just be able to stand still and laugh at them, and they coudnt hurt you.

A thief being revealed on applying any condition is a bad idea.

Traps, Caltrops , Uncatchable all become useless. This just leads to even sillier gameplay such as “see caltrops field lets take turns stepping in it to reveal thief” . Doing damage to oneself deliberately just to reveal a thief is bad gameplay. A thief using caltrops or uncatcable might as well be asked to set stealth traps that reveal himself.

The issue is stealth stacking.

These builds are annoying but not as deadly as being suggested.I solo flipped a full enemy camp while one of these thieves was in said camp trying to defend it with his traps and conditions. I basically ignored said thief, killed all the guards and waited for it to flip as he continued to annoy. I tahnked the dead guards for allowing me to use EA to cleanse conditions at will.

Just cleanse the confusion/poison as it applied from the steal as soon as you can and avoid the red circle caltrops field. if that goes up avoid it. If you have no immob breaks put some in your build.

There are plenty of counters.

babazhook.6805:

A thief being revealed on applying any condition is a bad idea.

Traps, Caltrops , Uncatchable all become useless. This just leads to even sillier gameplay such as “see caltrops field lets take turns stepping in it to reveal thief” . Doing damage to oneself deliberately just to reveal a thief is bad gameplay. A thief using caltrops or uncatcable might as well be asked to set stealth traps that reveal himself.

The issue is stealth stacking.

These builds are annoying but not as deadly as being suggested.I solo flipped a full enemy camp while one of these thieves was in said camp trying to defend it with his traps and conditions. I basically ignored said thief, killed all the guards and waited for it to flip as he continued to annoy. I tahnked the dead guards for allowing me to use EA to cleanse conditions at will.

Just cleanse the confusion/poison as it applied from the steal as soon as you can and avoid the red circle caltrops field. if that goes up avoid it. If you have no immob breaks put some in your build.

There are plenty of counters.

That the thing your not realy reviling them your simply guessing where they are if hitting them would revil them then you have a point but that now how stealth works in this game. Your asking for it to be ok that one class can sit safe in stealth and do dmg (as in most effects are triggable the sec they are used and not on a real delay) effects that only need one combo to be effective vs other classes and builds who need to be able to balances attking vs taking dmg at all times (power thf dose it all the time why cant the conid players be asked to show the same skill).

If it was as easy to remove the condi that where killing you it would be a non issues but you cant chose what condis you are removing that and you must use a few skills to to remove enofe condis to live and or be uprooted once where the classes who are putting out these condis tend to have so much stack on one skill that your effectly applying every condi per one skill use. That IS the true balancing problem in GW2 when it comes to condi that so much is stack on application skill that the counter effect is so much weaker that its more of a soft counter that is very non effective.

There are no counter stealth and there are no counter condi dmg you just play in a manor that you do not get comply destroyed by it. Every one counter power dmg and every one counter being able to see attk / ppl coming. Its on the level of if your solo in wvw or even a small man group with out these 2 effect your worst off then having them.

Simply put as things stand now thf has stagger the game of wvw to the point that you cant play the way you want or build the way you want. You must play a class as if gw2 as a trinity system or play a ghost thf.

Jski.6180:

That the thing your not realy reviling them your simply guessing where they are if hitting them would revil them then you have a point but that now how stealth works in this game. Your asking for it to be ok that one class can sit safe in stealth and do dmg (as in most effects are triggable the sec they are used and not on a real delay) effects that only need one combo to be effective vs other classes and builds who need to be able to balances attking vs taking dmg at all times (power thf dose it all the time why cant the conid players be asked to show the same skill).

I think you missed his point. The build abuses the stealth stacking mechanic allowing it to remain fully cloaked permanently. If that mechanic is addressed, this build no longer works. If D/P cannot HS and Bound through the same field continually, this build is dead and it solves a larger issue with the thief class as well.

Straegen.2938:

Jski.6180:

That the thing your not realy reviling them your simply guessing where they are if hitting them would revil them then you have a point but that now how stealth works in this game. Your asking for it to be ok that one class can sit safe in stealth and do dmg (as in most effects are triggable the sec they are used and not on a real delay) effects that only need one combo to be effective vs other classes and builds who need to be able to balances attking vs taking dmg at all times (power thf dose it all the time why cant the conid players be asked to show the same skill).

I think you missed his point. The build abuses the stealth stacking mechanic allowing it to remain fully cloaked permanently. If that mechanic is addressed, this build no longer works. If D/P cannot HS and Bound through the same field continually, this build is dead and it solves a larger issue with the thief class as well.

Well no it still works its just not perma stealth any more. You would have to become unstealth to land your hits and then you go back into stealth and lets the condis do there work. If the thf dose not know when to land there attks at the right time they will die as they should much like a power thf build. For some reason ppl are giving this build the perma stealth condis dmg thf a pass but if a power thf could do the same thing most ppl would say that is going too far.

Jski.6180:

Well no it still works its just not perma stealth any more. You would have to become unstealth to land your hits and then you go back into stealth and lets the condis do there work. If the thf dose not know when to land there attks at the right time they will die as they should much like a power thf build. For some reason ppl are giving this build the perma stealth condis dmg thf a pass but if a power thf could do the same thing most ppl would say that is going too far.

It doesn’t work at least not efficiently enough to be dangerous. A thief cannot drop 9 init or 6 init and a dodge every 4s. Without stealth stacking the Ghost Thief simply doesn’t work mechanically.

What makes stealth so problematic is that a thief can basically stack up about 10s of stealth on one Black Powder. This creates problems like the Ghost Thief but also allows a thief to hit from nowhere and disappear a couple seconds later for long periods of time. One 4s burst is counterable, 10s plus of stealth is nearly impossible to pin down.

Basically any set of skills on the thief have to be filtered through builds that appear and disappear for long periods of time. Hence the thief getting nerfed constantly to deal with this OP weapon mechanic.

No ghost thief uses a build set other then d/p. You can not get stealth full time otherwise.

Without d/p trapper/trapper rune combination can get at best when traited for all the trap traits and sa , 6 seconds of stealth every 24 seconds off traps.

many thieves that play ghost do not even use trapper runes meaning all stealth off stacking with the stealth utilities as supplement.

People that do not understand how the builds work should not be offerring suggestion on how to fix it until they better understand it. Go in and try the build. Another “nerf” to stealth prompted by the uninformed is not a solution. and SA has already been marginalized enough as a traitline.

Any thing over 3 sec of stealth invariability blocking is too long. When you have real moment to moment combat 3 sec is a life time. Stealth invaluably and blocking are short turn effects that lets you get out or stop major hits (for stealth lets you land major hits with out having a tell on the big attks) but to use these for heals and full resets of a fight is just silly and if your a class with out the longer version of these your simply worst off for not having them something gw2 should not be about.

There 2 ways to fix this you make stealth no longer stakable / cuts its duration over all or you make things like condi application brake your stealth. Things can not keep going as things stand or every one will be a thf soon and thf vs thf is a doom fight that often you cant tell if a fight is over started or the other person has simply logged out.

Incoming condition application breaking stealth would literally ruin the profession. There’s far too much AoE as it is just for the purpose of combat alone.

Stealth stacking should never have existed to begin with – a la mesmer, trapper runes, sneak gyro, etc., but ANet refuses to do anything about problem-child design cases and will just perform numbers tweaks or add/remove ICD’s to things to try and cover symptoms or make it seem like they “don’t want to drastically change anything” for the toxic people who support these prior bad decisions.

DeceiverX.8361:

Incoming condition application breaking stealth would literally ruin the profession. There’s far too much AoE as it is just for the purpose of combat alone.

Stealth stacking should never have existed to begin with – a la mesmer, trapper runes, sneak gyro, etc., but ANet refuses to do anything about problem-child design cases and will just perform numbers tweaks or add/remove ICD’s to things to try and cover symptoms or make it seem like they “don’t want to drastically change anything” for the toxic people who support these prior bad decisions.

No not incoming but out going condis from the thf or the person who is stealth should brake the stealth. Kind of an aggressive action should brake stealth ideal and not just power dmg braking it.

We could go as far as ask why dose traps that do dmg brake stealth? The traps are much like a pet and pets such as mez images or full on pet pets do not brake stealth for the player even when given comands. This fits but for some reason traps are different and it seems that power dmg should not be the only thing that brake stealth. So both power dmg traps and pure condi traps should brake stealth and over all aggressive actions from the player should brake stealth (so even cc lines that do no dmg etc..).

It might be difficult to differentiate new condi application vs ongoing condi application in regards to stealth (I.e. first condi tick vs subsequent ticks).

So why not just put some nominal amount of direct damage on the traps that don’t have it now and call it a day?

Or, you know, reign in stealth stacking, which seems to be the real issue.