Guild Wars 2

Really wish anet would rethink the 2 leagues… But we are as hopeful as they systematically destroy wvw to push people to spvp/pve.

Solstice.1097:

WvW business model:

A) break the game
B) sell the solution in gem store
C) tell us how we should feel about it
D) repeat

Well said +1

Luvpie.8350:

Although Bloodlust and Leagues are a terrible idea, Anet you are still continuing. Please do atleast one thing though and change the US leagues from 2 (12 servers) to 4 (6servers). Currently one of the biggest fears in 1st league is the top 5 servers have population that dwarfs the bottom 7. If each server is going to play each other in league atleast once that will give 4 out 7 matches to be complete blowouts and not fun at all. I am sure bottom 12 servers will experience this. The population for US wvw servers isn’t as balanced as EU and needs the servers divided into groups of 6 instead to have better matchups. These league servers below matched up with each other will give ALOT more balanced matches then dividing servers into 2 groups only.

SOR,BG,JQ,TC,DB,FA League 1
Mag,SoS,SBI,EB,CD,BP League 2
YB,KN,IoJ,DH,NS,HoD League 3
SF,GoM,ET,FC,AR,DR League 4

TLDR
Although Leagues are a dumb idea we need 4 leagues in US instead of 2 to make matchups not blowouts for atleast 50% of 7 weeks duration.

League 2 sounds boring.

DevonCarver.5370:

Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

So the year of WvW data, the 6 months of updated WvW data based on the new seeding/matchup, and the constant forum posts about how bad your design is isn’t enough for you?

I really have to question your ability to lead WvW game design because everything you’ve been doing to WvW has been abysmal. Based on a forum post you made a while back (saying … “I won’t make changes with just a few weeks worth of data…”) about how servers are matched, your fix comes in the form of a huge oversight of just a 2 league system for NA.

Now we’re going to be stuck with this system for 2 months… you sure know how to take something good and turn it into a pile of garbage.

Get your act together and leave your ego behind.

TC presently ticking at +0 vs JQ/BG

This is going places....

With the utmost respect to you Devon I believe you are so wrong.

I am a proud Yaks Bender and have spent too many hours in WvW. I am the WVW guild leader of a larger gaming community. Once upon a time I would have 20 or so running NA prime time up to 30 Oceanic and a smaller but not insignificant 10-15 EU.
At reset we could have 30 plus controlling ybbl. Great fun was had week after week and reset was party central for ever so many. I am not the best player nor am I a theory crafter on builds if I run out and die so be it but I have had fun. My money has been well spent and provided me with great entertainment.

Like it or not the ranking system was a failure right from the start. Matches got stale and boring for many servers but were locked into their tiers. The open free transfer destroyed it even further. Even when it was stopped gamers had already got the idea that the grass is greener and continued to move. We saw the rise fall etc of the bandwagoners. The idea that the higher you are the better the game is. Different yes but not necessarily better.

Then the culling stopped. A great fix or was it!!!! We can now see the enemy so the blob wars started. I have no complaints the players developed their own ESport GVG. This appealed greatly to a large section of the community. For those like me who organised the defences, build the siege, did the upgrades and repaired the gates and walls. No love was shown to us. little reward for hours and hours of behind the scenes work but we did it for our server. I do not use the term loyalty lightly but it was exactly what I felt and many like me. Even today with all that Yaks has gone through over the last few months those of us out there day after day are amongst the greatest people I have played with in almost 35 years of gaming.

The new matchups began as far as Yaks was concerned we had some of the closest matches in the history of the game with the 3 places being decided in the last 12 hours. However it very quickly became obvious the the ratings were never going to close that much. Over this period the once stable server of Yaks began to loose whole guilds. With only one or two exceptions they all moved to higher servers in TC SOR DB. Now I am not talking a few people. I am talking over 50 and nearer to 100 if indeed not more. We have been on the shortlist for many potential guilds but they too went to kitten. My own guild lost many firstly to SoS because we had little or no oceanic presence and they were getting no play time worth a cracker. then another group to TC. they just needed a new experience. When I speak to some of them today they moved they saw and now they are playing something else or waiting to do so.

I went to have a look and as I write this is my Alt account which is based on TC. A great server but no more fun to play on than my dear Yaks Bend. However the sheer numbers I wish we had just half as many.

So the recent changes well what can I say that hasn’t been said already. I am one of the silent majority but it has been said by everyone else. The map great the buffs well I wont comment. GvG the players game not mine personally destroyed such a shame. No longer did PVT matter more the fight or the battle. I came out from behind the walls and fought Pyro from Mags and had a blast—-but died even more hehe

So at last we look to the leagues as you have said will be as you envisaged them. I am sorry Sir as someone and the end of their career of 45 years in senior management I would sack you on the spot. If you ran a shop selling yesterdays fashion you would be broke. If you sold a lemon of a motor car you would be washing dishes to earn your rent. You do not have to be a rocket scientist to know that if 1,2,3,4,5,6, plays the remaining 6 there is only 1 winner whilst the rest will be spawn camped. Look at our matchup this week if we were not off killing a dragon or trying to in overflow what do you think the score would be. As much as I hate being stomped week after week I hate doing the stomping also.

It is not too late to re-consider your plan or the plan of your seniors. It is flawed ill thought out and it wont take 7 weeks to work that one out. Blind freddy can see it and I for one can but hey my opinion doesn’t matter. Or at least that is how Anet makes us feel.

Finally I want to thank all those many players on all servers that have stuck with their server since day dot Do not move for the sake of a meaningless award. Follow that Dorito that you love and respect. They are the ones that make this game worth playing. Yaks Bend has great commanders that make my non work time so enjoyable and I thank you for all your work. I am sure all servers have commanders to thank also

phokus.8934:

I really have to question your ability to lead WvW game design because everything you’ve been doing to WvW has been abysmal. Based on a forum post you made a while back (saying … “I won’t make changes with just a few weeks worth of data…”) about how servers are matched, your fix comes in the form of a huge oversight of just a 2 league system for NA.

I really doubt Devon has the sort of leverage to be calling the shots here.

I mean really let’s cut it down to the bones… Running WvW costs money, it uses lot’s of bandwidth and server resources, proven by Anet’s inability to even get a Tier 6 match-up to run without massive, crippling lag.

No matter how much anyone talks about “design” or “vision” we’re talking about a business here. When the bills/payroll get paid someone in accounting has to justify where the income came from.

So, in effect:
– No 4th map for GvG because they already SELL custom arenas for SPvP. ( free service competing with paid, big no-no )
– Leagues are happening, like it or not, because they SELL server transfers. ( I have already witnessed, and been affected by, the massive spike in guilds moving around )
– 3005 new WXP levels added because, surprise, they SELL wxp boosters now. ( Flirting closer to Pay2Win aren’t we now? )

The only metrics anyone is watching in regards to WvW is revenue created. Win/Loss ratios or god forbid WvW population tracking and creating remotely even match-ups haven’t been addressed yet and there’s no signs of it being on the radar.

I’d love to see someone with Colin Johanson’s rank and pull come in here and tell us how wonderfully balanced WvW is and what a bright shining future is has and lecture us on how altruistic the design team is again.

Well, the design team really could do better by those of us that primarily play WvW. I’m pretty sure they are fully aware of unbalanced match-ups and I think every server outside T1 has been on the receiving end of a crushing defeat or watched your 2000+ point leads lost over night because you lack coverage.

So ask yourselves why can’t any of this be addressed or even humble efforts put in place to even out the bumps?

Let’s not pretend Devon has free license to do whatever he wants when he clocks in everyday. All of this league stuff looks very profit driven. Removing culling, adding new achievements, new mechanics and even the massive borderlands map change ( love it or hate it ) are all added to increase gameplay value, and I hope in good faith. Now they need to justify it with some cold, hard cash.

Hell maybe this “disaster in the making” can pay to finally make defending a rewarding gameplay option finally! Bright future guys! Rah, Rah, Rah. Maybe we should ALL just move to Blackgate to help finance it… hell we could all get our dragon achievements as a bonus. It’s like buying First class seating on an Airplane, if you want full service, you gotta pay for it.

Upside:

Plenty of bored zerglings to jump

DevonCarver.5370:

Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

I can not fathom how you possible see this working. Your entire player base is telling you it will not work. By time the league stuff is finished you will have lost ALL your serious WvWers. Seriously, when are you going to listen to the people who are playing? No one wants 8 weeks or whatever of bad match ups.

RE: Relentliss, and others.
They won’t listen unless the players get serious. Here’s how you/we stop these shenanigans. Play something, anything else for about … 2 months. Tank the metrics.
Guarantee you’ll see 4 groups in the NA League after that. Yes, it’ll be hard – especially if (like myself) you overall enjoy GW2. But, there’s the only solution I can see working, since we’re dealing with a WvW Co-ord. who thinks that 2 groups of 12 servers will result in anything but mass annoyance for most of the players involved.

Advent… you are right. They only watch metrics.. we need to give them metrics..

I left GW2 for 5 months but really wanted to be back into an mmo.. in around 6 months another possible option will launch and although I have reservations… if done right it will be the end of any real competitive WvW for GW2.

Frankly its only the people that LOVE Guild Wars that are even still here in the WvW market. Believe it or not.. the top guilds and top servers… these guys are the CASUALs of the hardcore groups out there. Even they are packing up that emergency suitcase now.

I am sure… if I leave for another few months… I will not be back this time. The grind with dailies, and timegating means I would never be able to keep up or catch up if I took a long break… better to just drop it and never come back. And Anet cannot understand this as they no longer understand the players like they did in GW1

This is all the data you need….

DevonCarver.5370:

Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

All I am going to say to this is for variety Maguuma for the most part just gets paired up with TC,DB,FA until a couple weeks ago. Not sure what variety is defined for you guys, but same 3 servers week in and week out…Not Variety

Hey guys stop caring about this game, you’re wasting your time. The development staff doesn’t give five ferinheight of a flaming #$@& about what we think. They’re going to do whatever they feel like doing no matter how much it destroys their community.

They call us the vocal minority? Sure, I’ll take that. But guess who spreads the word of mouth about GW2? It’s not the non vocal majority, it’s us, and we aren’t saying very kind things…definitely not things that will boost sales. The things that I say in person about the game are on a level that makes this post read like a toddlers bed time story.

No one that plays this game mode will enjoy the two league system. No One. Even a four league system would be awful. If they want to ruin their game in this perpetual ignorance of mechanical problems whilst simultaneously adding garbage no one wants and destroying everything that we do (GvG included), then its their plane to crash and burn. Just go grab your parachute and bail out…oh and be sure to point, laugh, and say “I told you so” as childishly as possible to present your condescension in the most offensive manner possible when they finally realize they should’ve listened.

Hope to see you folks in ESO, at least whether or not it will be good is an unknown…WvW lacks any development characteristics to justify optimism.

Sometimes I question how much, if any, common sense the Anet dev teams has. Ok I question it all the time truth be told. You guys have to be either incredibly ignorant or simply indifferent to WvW to expect the leagues to be a success. There is such a large discrepancy between the top 3 servers and everyone else in 12 team brackets that there simply is ZERO chance to win if you are toward the bottom of those groupings. You will lack the population and the coverage to do anything other than be facerolled. Having a league COULD be a lot of fun but in any type of competitive match that gives rewards to the victors the first premise is a somewhat level playing field. This is going to be a seven week trial, doomed to fail, that we get to suffer through.

Blackjack.2083:

Sometimes I question how much, if any, common sense the Anet dev teams has. Ok I question it all the time truth be told. You guys have to be either incredibly ignorant or simply indifferent to WvW to expect the leagues to be a success. There is such a large discrepancy between the top 3 servers and everyone else in 12 team brackets that there simply is ZERO chance to win if you are toward the bottom of those groupings. You will lack the population and the coverage to do anything other than be facerolled. Having a league COULD be a lot of fun but in any type of competitive match that gives rewards to the victors the first premise is a somewhat level playing field. This is going to be a seven week trial, doomed to fail, that we get to suffer through.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen any other major game (I’m speaking of WvW here) where the key devs so poorly understood how their own game works on such an awesome scale. It’s quite incredible …

DevonCarver.5370:

We will have an announcement about the NA leagues and seasons generally soon. But there are changes coming in.

“We have finished analyzing all of the data we collected. Thanks to feedback from our valued player base, we have decided to double the orb bonuses for the first season. We are also condensing NA/EU into 1 league each, so get those transfers in now before it’s too late!”

LOL team i was making that same post…

Silver league is being merged with Gold to provide tier 1 more variety

Dream In A Dream.7213:

Silver league is being merged with Gold to provide tier 1 more variety

And also so that all servers may test their skill against the highest ranked servers.

DevonCarver.5370:

We will have an announcement about the NA leagues and seasons generally soon. But there are changes coming in.

Ah, well whatever it is you decide, I’d just like a more in depth argument behind the reasoning. Then again, as long as you all are open to change, then anything can be dealt with.

ArchonWing.9480:

DevonCarver.5370:

We will have an announcement about the NA leagues and seasons generally soon. But there are changes coming in.

Ah, well whatever it is you decide, I’d just like a more in depth argument behind the reasoning. Then again, as long as you all are open to change, then anything can be dealt with.

LOL. Dream on.

Well lets hope they listened to us at least a little. Maybe they even reworked he bloodlust buff, which in my mind is worse than the leagues.

Although, I have to admit, I was looking forward to SBI playing SoR, BG and JQ. Although if it doesn’t happen, I won’t complain.

Johje Holan.4607:

Well lets hope they listened to us at least a little. Maybe they even reworked he bloodlust buff, which in my mind is worse than the leagues.

Although, I have to admit, I was looking forward to SBI playing SoR, BG and JQ. Although if it doesn’t happen, I won’t complain.

If they did listen to us, it’s only because of drastically declining WvW numbers (as stated in Devon’s infamous alpha forum post). It’s good if we get a positive change, but if it takes loads of people to stop playing each time we need a change, then the game mode is in trouble.

As for SBI: I’d love to see you get beat up by SoR, BG and JQ all at once, 3 on 1, for what you are doing to NSP right now

My hope…. changes to the scoring system. If the way scores are calculated are changed, it doesn’t matter how they do the tiers. Servers with the most number of players should receive fewer points than less populated servers. That would result in a more even match-up (score wise) between T1 and T4.

style.6173:

My hope…. changes to the scoring system. If the way scores are calculated are changed, it doesn’t matter how they do the tiers. Servers with the most number of players should receive fewer points than less populated servers. That would result in a more even match-up (score wise) between T1 and T4.

points =/= fun

Nobody wants to take a few supply camps an hour and “win” because they achieved some arbitrary level of not failing hard enough.

style.6173:

My hope…. changes to the scoring system. If the way scores are calculated are changed, it doesn’t matter how they do the tiers. Servers with the most number of players should receive fewer points than less populated servers. That would result in a more even match-up (score wise) between T1 and T4.

So that you win even if you get beaten up? I personally don’t like that at all.

At this point, I’ve pretty much given up on having any semblance of balance in terms of server populations. I’d settle for the current RNG system, with a bit less chance of having huge mismatches.

style.6173:

My hope…. changes to the scoring system. If the way scores are calculated are changed, it doesn’t matter how they do the tiers. Servers with the most number of players should receive fewer points than less populated servers. That would result in a more even match-up (score wise) between T1 and T4.

Agreed, if there’s no Handicap for more populated WvW servers. There will be little to no incentive for the lower tier servers to even bother with WvW during the season.

Heck the current match with SoR/DB/FA is pretty much what will happen under the current system. 6-7 weeks of PvD by T1 servers isn’t going to be fun for anyone.

Right. This comment presumes that Devon’s still reading the thread.
Honestly, here’s the main thing you and yours can do to “fix” WvW:

• Modify your calculations to use specifically active WvW players as a basis for matching.

Things like Bloodlust/Masteries do not mitigate the main issue of matchups, which is a combination of overall player numbers, and time-zone coverage. In addition, I have been convinced for months that your system calculates based on total server population. If I am correct – then that, sir – with all due respect, is quite problematic.
Let us consider that total server population does not necessarily reflect WvW population. Thus, a request for the matching mathematics to use only WvW numbers as a basis. If you must collate data first, then I politely ask for you to cross-check a week’s worth of WvW-centric player logins, and go from there.
I would be willing to bet that you would:

1. See more even matchups, across the board.
   and
2. Have considerably less stress from players of the game mode.

Now, I understand that your side has a vested interest in making money, and I do not fault that logic. Merely the lengths it can cause one to go to. I would venture that a reasonable chunk of your WvW players can, do, and will continue to support your company, if they feel happy with the game mode that they prefer to play.

I think that covers everything I needed to say. Good evening. /bow

I would be satisfied if it were 4 leagues but I could live with 3. Hopefully the announcement relates to this.

I wanted 3 originally, but math pointed out by other posters pointed out the lacking aspects thereof. We’d then have servers with no third opponent, from what I recall.
Four, while not “perfect,” would at least work much better than two. Keep your fingers crossed, timidobserver … and everyone else.

Cactus.2710:

ArchonWing.9480:

DevonCarver.5370:

We will have an announcement about the NA leagues and seasons generally soon. But there are changes coming in.

Ah, well whatever it is you decide, I’d just like a more in depth argument behind the reasoning. Then again, as long as you all are open to change, then anything can be dealt with.

LOL. Dream on.

lol, let’s at least try to pretend to be reasoned and mature so we can be taken seriously and save the QQ for later, which of there is plenty of time.

DevonCarver.5370:

We will have an announcement about the NA leagues and seasons generally soon. But there are changes coming in.

Dang I was hoping the whole two league thing was to bore people out of T1.

League 1 will be made up of BG/SoR/JQ/TC/FA/DB/DR/AR/FC/GoM/ET/SF
League 2 will be the remaining servers

We felt the servers in league 1 were having difficulty getting matched together under the current system in place so the leagues will help increase the variability in matchings. That is all.

DevonCarver.5370:

We will have an announcement about the NA leagues and seasons generally soon. But there are changes coming in.

Changes shocked
is it possible we get more that 2 leagues?

Advent.6193:

I wanted 3 originally, but math pointed out by other posters pointed out the lacking aspects thereof. We’d then have servers with no third opponent, from what I recall.
Four, while not “perfect,” would at least work much better than two. Keep your fingers crossed, timidobserver … and everyone else.

Yup. It is pretty simple to me. The number rating separation between the number 1 server and the number 12 server is bigger in NA than EU. The separation is actually double. Taking that into consideration, NA should certainly not have less leagues than EU.

Thrumdi.9216:

Benjamin.6235:

Hey, I got an idea. How about we have eight leagues and then move servers up and down based on their results of their games? Okay, so we have three servers so you’d have all potential match-ups in one week. Yeah, this idea might work.

Yep, 8 Leagues just might work.

In fact, you could even call them “tiers”.

Sounds like a great idea. This will achieve the most stable and even match ups.

timidobserver.7925:

Advent.6193:

I wanted 3 originally, but math pointed out by other posters pointed out the lacking aspects thereof. We’d then have servers with no third opponent, from what I recall.
Four, while not “perfect,” would at least work much better than two. Keep your fingers crossed, timidobserver … and everyone else.

Yup. It is pretty simple to me. The number rating separation between the number 1 server and the number 12 server is bigger in NA than EU. The separation is actually double. Taking that into consideration, NA should certainly not have less leagues than EU.

i really hope t4 servers dont get a visit form t1 servers. if my t2 server fa ever gets matched vs a t4, ill play with no armor the whole week with my lvl 20 guardian.

Player Character.9467:

League 1 will be made up of BG/SoR/JQ/TC/FA/DB/DR/AR/FC/GoM/ET/SF
League 2 will be the remaining servers

We felt the servers in league 1 were having difficulty getting matched together under the current system in place so the leagues will help increase the variability in matchings. That is all.

Sadly, I wouldn’t doubt that what you posted (or something just as absurb) will be what is announced.

We gotta remember these are the same people that thought (and STILL think) EIGHT ranks of separation is a good number of ranks to match up servers in our current WvW match making system. LOL!

Solstice.1097:

Could not agree more however, you didn’t know? Anet WvW devs aren’t allowed to have good ideas. WvW is only used as leverage to create more server transfers and gem sales.

WvW business model:

A) break the game
B) sell the solution in gem store
C) tell us how we should feel about it
D) repeat

Very well put!

It really doesn’t matter how many leagues they divide NA into. It will still be full of blowouts. Let’s look at 4 leagues.

In League 1, BG, SOR, and JQ will fight for first place. Most likely the final results will end in that order. Then you have TC which can’t compete with the top 3, but will blow out FA and DB. Boring.

In League 2, SOS will dominate. Everyone else will just fight for second.

I know some people do not like the scoring changes idea, but it is the only way to make the league competitive. At least that way, we will not know who will win the league going into it. Right now, the results are already determined.

style.6173:

My hope…. changes to the scoring system. If the way scores are calculated are changed, it doesn’t matter how they do the tiers. Servers with the most number of players should receive fewer points than less populated servers. That would result in a more even match-up (score wise) between T1 and T4.

This is ridiculous, why would anyone want to be rewarded for showing up ? This is fat kid syndrome at its finest, the point of PvP is to fight other player and win by defeating them …. think about that for a second, getting spawn camped all week followed by a pat on the back suggesting you won is not winning. Handy capping is not whats needed, forced balancing is whats needed before this goes live. If I play on a low ranked server that Loses and then am told by Anet that I won …. then I’m done with GW2, and further more if they go this route then they have NO business trying to be an E-sport.

Brando.1374:

DevonCarver.5370:

We will have an announcement about the NA leagues and seasons generally soon. But there are changes coming in.

Changes shocked
is it possible we get more that 2 leagues?

Its sad that they had to have this much input from the “minority” to figure out 2+2 …. I’m actually disgusted that the people making decision have the positions they have.

Riondron.1069:

This is all the data you need….

Yeah servers ranked 5th and 6th are fighting the server ranked 2nd (only 3 and 4 ranks above them) and the match is the biggest blowout of the week so far. Can you imagine what it will look like when the server ranked 12th is going to fight the server ranked 1st? If 5th and 6th do this poorly, what’s it going to look like for the lower ranked servers?

I don’t understand how, with the existing data, they couldn’t tell this is a bad idea. At a certain point your testing environment has to be reasonably enjoyable for players. It’s fine to test things, but some things don’t need to be tested for you to know they are going to suck. As a developer you should be able to foresee these things and ensure that they don’t happen to avoid putting your players through a kittenty situation for seven weeks. That’s not good for the players and it’s not good for the game.

No-one cares about variety when the variety presented will be dramatically imbalanced matches.

Why not 3 tiers of 8?

It’s like everyone forgot that there was a number between 2 and 4… This would make it 1-8, 9-16, 17-24. Ideally, I’d like tiers of 6 so there’s less face-stomping, but I’d think 1 vs 8 would be far less bad than 1 vs 12. Likewise, 1 vs 6 would be less bad than either of the two, but what can we do?

Oh wait, we could try fixing the wvw population distribution. But we’ll just keep masking the real issues with fake new issues that nobody really cares about.

The problem with having more leagues and less servers per league is that….

The non-top 3 servers in each league will take turns farming the lower tier servers way more often. At least with 8 or 12 per per league there is a bigger chance that the rank 1, 2 and 3 won’t be grouped together.

This is of course only workable if enough is done to ensure that only 1 of the top 3 servers in each league gets assigned to each match-up. (i.e. they never ever fight each other). If 2 of the top servers end up together, it will end up like the current BG/JQ/TC matchup.

urak.4863:

The problem with having more leagues and less servers per league is that….

The non-top 3 servers in each league will take turns farming the lower tier servers way more often. At least with 8 or 12 per per league there is a bigger chance that the rank 1, 2 and 3 won’t be grouped together.

This is of course only workable if enough is done to ensure that only 1 of the top 3 servers in each league gets assigned to each match-up. (i.e. they never ever fight each other). If 2 of the top servers end up together, it will end up like the current BG/JQ/TC matchup.

Its still a blow out, if you put the top 3 in separate matches, you have 3 blow outs. The bottom line is, there is no competition for what the top 3 can output. The top tiers do not enjoy steam rolling and anything below does not enjoy being steam rolled. We are humans, morale is a major factor, I’m willing to bet even TC who is arguably tier 1.5 stops seeing full numbers after day 1 or 2 when facing one of the big 3. Its sad that the WvW team cannot put aside their pride and works towards balancing vs. a system very few want. I’m willing to bet if they put a poll out to the top tiers about how they felt about facing lower tiers the results would heavily favor not wanting to have to destroy them, not because they are better or more skilled but most realize the coverage/population issues make the matches dull and boring.

Melanion.4892:

Why not 3 tiers of 8?

It’s like everyone forgot that there was a number between 2 and 4… This would make it 1-8, 9-16, 17-24. Ideally, I’d like tiers of 6 so there’s less face-stomping, but I’d think 1 vs 8 would be far less bad than 1 vs 12. Likewise, 1 vs 6 would be less bad than either of the two, but what can we do?

Oh wait, we could try fixing the wvw population distribution. But we’ll just keep masking the real issues with fake new issues that nobody really cares about.

More like you forgot that 8 isn’t a multiple of 3.

DevonCarver.5370:

We will have an announcement about the NA leagues and seasons generally soon. But there are changes coming in.

Can I get changes to bloodlust now????