Guild Wars 2

Well with all that said, it would of been much more sensible to combine this reset with the 24-hour matchup system until the tiers ended up as they truly belonged. Fact is we already know what servers approximately belong higher up and which don’t, only the broken ratings needed to be fixed so these 1-3 month blockages could be overcome. Nevertheless, the tiers merely need a little time to sort themselves out, and I admit there is no point in high tier servers having to blow out for a few weeks when 24 hour matchups arguably would of gotten us to the inevitable results much faster. I agree with the reset in its vision as a whole, it is better for the system as a whole. But the overall vision could be delivered far more efficiently with 24-hour matchups occurring til the most balanced matchups possible across the board came to be.

24hour matchup system wasnt that great either, the server i was originally on was in t2 after the 24h matchups, only to freefall down to… I think they eventually ended up in t8 where they happily exclaimed that the matchups were even.

Tier1 servers are just afraid to be steamrolled by lower tiered servers in prime time and loose their bragging rights :P

Genev.2450:

24hour matchup system wasnt that great either, the server i was originally on was in t2 after the 24h matchups, only to freefall down to… I think they eventually ended up in t8 where they happily exclaimed that the matchups were even.

Well before population fluctuations were not taken into account, that’s the thing. I’m sure there are a whole other variety of factors to consider, but without free transfers available unless a bunch of guilds decide to drop 500+ gold to transfer all at once, then the 24 hour match ups should work much better now. You know, without the server hopping to winning servers factor present. Of course there’s no such thing as a flaw-free system, but looking at the system current, and past, one can’t help that think better balancing can/could of been done and should of been done long ago already.

Detharos.3157:

You people in the higher tiers have become selfish. I wouldn’t be surprised if half of those complaining are such servers, that received mass transfers and damaged the ratings of the lower tiers as you moved up. You look to paid transfers as if it alone were a solution to all the WvW and fail to consider the periods of population movement damaged the system as a whole. It’s therefore necessary to fix not only the core problem, (free transfers), but the outlying problems it also created as it continued unanswered (Busted ratings, etc.).

Yes things would of end up balanced eventually AFTER MONTHS MORE. And for the people who have been waiting 3+ months already for a relatively balanced matchup, and are forced to wait months more under a system of broken ratings, you’d ask them to “Wait some months more plox!” so that you can enjoy a good match at their expense? Just awesome people, just awesome.

So what you’re saying is that Sorrow’s Furnace should have to spend the next couple months falling down through 6-7 tiers so your server can have a better matchup? I’m not sure if you should be calling everyone else selfish.

Let’s say there is no reset and SF just moves up to the next tier. How is FC going to do against Henge or Darkhaven? Servers dropping down to a lower tier commonly do extremely well there. That matchup could prove to be far worse for FC than SF ever has been. There are far more imbalanced matchups than FC vs SF. Yak’s Bend dealt with far worse for the last month.

Take a look at tiers 2-5 for the last month. There have been a lot of matches with scores like 500k/50k/50k, which makes FC vs SF look pretty even. I see in the history that FC had a couple weeks like this versus Kaineng when their bandwagoning started. Kaining, Dragonbrand, and Maguuma are finally in a proper tier, now you want to subject everyone else to another 1-2 months of that so you can have a good matchup next week?

mrstealth.6701:

Detharos.3157:

You people in the higher tiers have become selfish. I wouldn’t be surprised if half of those complaining are such servers, that received mass transfers and damaged the ratings of the lower tiers as you moved up. You look to paid transfers as if it alone were a solution to all the WvW and fail to consider the periods of population movement damaged the system as a whole. It’s therefore necessary to fix not only the core problem, (free transfers), but the outlying problems it also created as it continued unanswered (Busted ratings, etc.).

Yes things would of end up balanced eventually AFTER MONTHS MORE. And for the people who have been waiting 3+ months already for a relatively balanced matchup, and are forced to wait months more under a system of broken ratings, you’d ask them to “Wait some months more plox!” so that you can enjoy a good match at their expense? Just awesome people, just awesome.

So what you’re saying is that Sorrow’s Furnace should have to spend the next couple months falling down through 6-7 tiers so your server can have a better matchup? I’m not sure if you should be calling everyone else selfish.

Let’s say there is no reset and SF just moves up to the next tier. How is FC going to do against Henge or Darkhaven? Servers dropping down to a lower tier commonly do extremely well there. That matchup could prove to be far worse for FC than SF ever has been. There are far more imbalanced matchups than FC vs SF. Yak’s Bend dealt with far worse for the last month.

Take a look at tiers 2-5 for the last month. There have been a lot of matches with scores like 500k/50k/50k, which makes FC vs SF look pretty even. I see in the history that FC had a couple weeks like this versus Kaineng when their bandwagoning started. Kaining, Dragonbrand, and Maguuma are finally in a proper tier, now you want to subject everyone else to another 1-2 months of that so you can have a good matchup next week?

How is SF gonna be stuck with higher tiers for months? It’s gonna lose by a massive blow out to any real tier 1 or tier 2 server and get bumped FAR down to where it belongs pretty kitten fast. It certainly won’t take “months”. And trust me, I know first hand what a higher tier looks like. I was here for weeks of Devona’s Rest when they were at their strongest. I was also here for weeks of Kaineng when they were at their strongest in the history of their time in T8, both the pre-WM and post-WM period. I was here to see us rival SF almost equally until.. guess what? Yeah, that last minute ending of transfers announcement and SF suddenly getting a major population boom from transfers, added to its already rapid increase in dormant PvX players frolicking in Wintersday events returning to WvW. Aside from servers who belong in higher tiers that might be stuck in tier 7, I daresay under the previous BROKEN rating system, the moment Sorrow’s furnace reached tier 7 it would comfortably move up to tier 6 and possibly as high as tier five in relatively little time if they work on their coordination and strategy. I remember both the numbers of Devona’s Rest when it was at its greatest, and also Kaineng so as to accurately compare the numbers to make a projection for the advancement of SF. I wouldn’t underestimate Sorrow’s Furnace.

Think about it. How many good matchups have you had in the last few weeks already? Outside a brief week with SF before ironically, they got a transfer boom, my server hasn’t enjoyed being a major figure in its tier since just before Devona’s Rest got its mass transfer boom. That was what, 3 months ago? And you say its better if we have to wait another 2-3? And what about Eredon Terrace. Most of you in higher tiers don’t realize due to the points, but a lot of ET’s score comes from playing vulture while we in general have had to bear the brunt of SF’s wrath. The moment SF is gone and the dormant players come active again, Ferg will likely put them as far under us, as we are to Sorrow’s Furnace. In other words at that time, at their expense instead of ours, Eredon Terrace could possibly have to wait ANOTHER 2-3 months to get more balanced opponents depending on how that would turn out.

And how is it, you get 1-2 months of imbalanced matchups for servers like yours? Even if you end up with one single server on your level and one weak server, the sheer free points benefiting both from the nonfactor would send your servers up to the higher tiers in very little time at all. Tier 4+ servers will for the most part probably be back there in 3 weeks as far as I see it, not withstanding the fact that Arena Net intends to implement new algorithms to the system, likely to help this situation.

Detharos.3157:

How is SF gonna be stuck with higher tiers for months? It’s gonna lose by a massive blow out to any real tier 1 or tier 2 server and get bumped FAR down to where it belongs pretty kitten fast. It certainly won’t take “months”. And trust me, I know first hand what a higher tier looks like.

They aren’t going to magically drop 3 tiers a week, especially when all the current T1 servers are going to spread out through the lower tiers. I’d guess a month at the minimum. I was on Henge of Denravi when Titan Alliance left, and it took months to fall through the tiers despite having almost no wvw presence at all.

Think about it. How many good matchups have you had in the last few weeks already?

Exactly none, this week excluded. Our past 4-5 matches have been a lot worse than anything SF has ever done to FC. Just take a look at the last few matches Yak’s Bend was in with Kaineng, Dragonbrand, and Maguuma.

Outside a brief week with SF before ironically, they got a transfer boom, my server hasn’t enjoyed being a major figure in its tier since just before Devona’s Rest got its mass transfer boom. That was what, 3 months ago?

I don’t know what you are even talking about here. There is been one week (this week) where SF has done anything close to dominating FC. Looking all the way back to November, your server hasn’t faced SF at all till January, where you had 2 pretty even matchups with them, and one week (last week) where they had a decent lead. Before that FC faced a couple hard matchups with Kaineng and Devona’s Rest due to thier population surges. Both of those servers were far harder on FC than SF has been.

Sorrow’s had a rougher history than FC. During the week’s when FC dealt with Devona’s population increase, SF was two tiers higher doing even worse.

And you say its better if we have to wait another 2-3? And what about Eredon Terrace. Most of you in higher tiers don’t realize due to the points, but a lot of ET’s score comes from playing vulture while we in general have had to bear the brunt of SF’s wrath. The moment SF is gone and the dormant players come active again, Ferg will likely put them as far under us, as we are to Sorrow’s Furnace. In other words at that time, at their expense instead of ours, Eredon Terrace could possibly have to wait ANOTHER 2-3 months to get more balanced opponents depending on how that would turn out.

You’ve had to deal with SF’s “wrath” for one week (this week). YB had to deal with the wrath of DB, Kain, and Mag for a month. As for ET, if FC actually does dominate them that badly, I doubt any servers from higher tiers will be any better for them. We will likely never have close fights in every tier, it’s just so unlikey to happen when there are servers like ET that just don’t have the wvw population for it.

And how is it, you get 1-2 months of imbalanced matchups for servers like yours? Even if you end up with one single server on your level and one weak server, the sheer free points benefiting both from the nonfactor would send your servers up to the higher tiers in very little time at all. Tier 4+ servers will for the most part probably be back there in 3 weeks as far as I see it, not withstanding the fact that Arena Net intends to implement new algorithms to the system, likely to help this situation.

I get 1-2 months of imbalance because it has already happened with Maguuma, Dragonbrand, and Kaineng’s popluation surge. With the reset, Maguuma and Dragonbrand will be below Yak’s bend again, along with Sea of Sorrows, Jade Quarry, Fort Aspenwood, Tarnished Coast, and Santcum of Rall. Every one of those servers will have to pass us (and Sorrow’s Furnace) by to return to their tier. Sure, we won’t have to face all of them, but there are going to be weeks of domination far beyond anything FC would see from SF.

You are far too worried about SF. Take a look at FC’s predicted matchup for next week. Good luck fighting Dragonbrand’s 24/7 full queue. They are going to do the same thing Kaineng did to FC back in December.

Please take a look at the actual history of matchups, because it’s nowhere near the picture you are trying to paint.
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#history

Edit:
And looking at YB’s matchups for next week….
With the reset we will be in T2 against Blackgate and Darkhaven, which will almost certainly end up with a 450k+ point difference, with YB and DH having barely anything.

Without a reset, YB would likely be against Maguuma for another week, along with Ehmry Bay. Neither of us stand a chance against what bandwagoners turned Mag into. That would be a bad week, but I much prefer that to the onslaught that the reset will subject us to for the next several weeks.

@mrstealth

I’m not worried at all about SF, but the fact is they are the straw that is breaking the camel’s back. Not you tier 4+ servers. You guys come and leave for a week, but we are stuck with an imbalanced match up for another 3 months after we’ve been putting up with it and are just about sick of it at this point, for the past 3 months spare the odd week or so. And yeah, I’m quite familiar with the history. Also note that Ferguson’s population steadily grew from the Christmas boom. Also keep in mind that Ferguson’s Crossing’s scores during the DR era were often reflective of it playing PvDoor vulture while DR and Kaineng were at eachother’s throats.

Week 43 – 27-03 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/6#NA
Early signs of the troubles to come.

Week 44 – 03-10 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/7#NA

Week 45 – 10-17 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/8#NA

Week 46 – 17-24 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/9#NA

Week 47 – 24-01 December
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/10#NA
A rare change in pace! Is this the new era of balanced matchups for Ferguson’s Crossing?

Nope.

Week 48 – 01-08 December
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/11#NA

Week 49 – 08-15 December
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/12#NA

DR finally gone. DominASIAN begins.
Week 50 – 15-22 December
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/13#NA

Week 50 – 15-22 December
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/13#NA

Week 51 – 22-29 December
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/14#NA

Week 52 – 29-05 January
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/15#NA

Week 01 – 05-12 January
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/16#NA
Finally a great matchup is born!

Week 02 – 12-19 January
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/17#NA

Week 03 – 19-26 January
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/18#NA
Woo SF’s transfers be kickin’ in!

Week 04 – 26-01 February
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/19#NA

Current NA Matchup- solid domination from SF
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/#NA

With the old system requiring SF to dominate us with 600+ ppt for 8 weeks to move up.

Yeah, that was a bit much. Also its easy for any scrub to look at some mos. millenium ranking history, but it doesn’t tell you a single thing about how a server obtained its scores. The vast majority of Ferg’s 100k+ scores during the time of DR onwards were from playing vulture while they big boys duked it out. Brutal, harsh fighting against superior numbered opponents during the prime time and struggling to barely maintain our borderlands when they come stomping in, and scratching a scarce bit of expansion from a few NA players with enough crazy dedication to log in at 4:00 AM and pick the few things they could.

When I say domination, I mean consistently doubling your opponents scores. 660+ ppt is nothing. When a foe has a score like that, your server takes the privilege of being non present in WvW and gets a nice rest, a nice break. You get to make 15 gold a day from the few dungeons you run in complete relaxation, rather than putting all your money into siege. When the domination is not so drastic, you put brutal hours and effort into WvW to make something work as best you can, despite the fact that a broken rating will never even allow you the chance to change your position for months. Months of WvW, that is in general not fun, and certainly not what you expected when you looked at youtube videos of WvWvW before considering whether or not to purchase GW2.

Again, you look at a rating history, and it tells you absolutely nothing of the dedication many players on our server put in, to the point of exhaustion and work-like hours at times, into something that is ironically supposed to be a fun game. It tells you nothing of the frustration of having to face off against opponents who have every single possession spare the breakout targets upgraded to brim with cannons and the works, fully fortified, filled the brim with supplies while we struggle to defend what we have in our BL/can take briefly because everything is wood and barely upgraded at best as per the enemy’s night team wiping the map every moment we log to get some rest, with there simply being no time to get our upgrades finalized before the enemy has enough presence to once again push us with greater numbers then we possess when we focus 100% of our numbers into a single map while that same enemy can push 1-2 maps simultaneously and effectively?

What does it do for the morale of an increasingly tired out hardcore WvW population on our server when every single instance in the recent past when our server possessed any amount of respectable points on the board came from playing vulture/lucking while DR and Kaineng fought each other head on, literally amounting us to an at the time non factor server should our foes seriously dedicate to the borderlands we were merely lucky to possess. All this only to get the illusion of having a grand and worthy matchup for a mere what? 2 weeks before transfers once again cheated us of our chance, and having to endure this while making a colossal and exhausting effort just to keep ourselves on the map and in our current position yet being stuck with things unchanging for another 3 months , 2- if we decide to stop existing in WvW and let SF simply blow us over with 650 ppt?

You entertain me more than WvW, I’ll admit that.

See mrstealth, I respect your opinion but you seem to making the same mistake that fuels the problems with Glicko2 and ArenaNet’s past assumptions in the first place. The system and the assumption could simply not contemplate much less compensate for the dynamics that are present in a server. Population fluctuations was one (Our losing some guilds/people to DR at one point as far as I understand but eventually gaining the plus side of the Christmas boom.), but the huge thing is server WvW morale. See, people are simply not inclined to be forever present in WvW when it takes job-level dedication to maintain your position. For one thing, let’s be clear 300-400 point single server domination and 695 ppt aren’t very different. Actually in most cases they are probably not different as well. If your server is at the wrong end of a 695 ppt server, let’s face it odds are if your server tried really hard to be on the map at least in some sense it could be. In all likelihood servers in that case have had their morale broken. They’ve given up. They, or their WvW populations as a general whole, see no benefit, not even in the form of entertainment as to regularly attempt anything of significance in the WvW battlefield anymore. I’m sure you’re familiar with this. What I’m saying is that, whether Kain, or SF or any server dominated us with 300 ppt, 450 ppt, or 695 ppt is of extremely little difference. The effect of repeated losses while you dedicate the the former ppt levels is what leads to a server’s WvW morale ultimately breaking and it simply retiring for however many weeks for their opponents need to advance. If we got tired and disappeared from the map for the next week, SF would dominate with 650+ ppt and yet not be any stronger than they were the previous week. They’d simply have the advantage of their opponent’s morale being broken.

Also, the fact that Ferguson’s Crossing is so often present on the board at all is not because its opponent’s weren’t as strong as they were made out to be, it’s that our server has always had that determination. While many servers keeled over for Kain for example, our people constantly tried to make something happen against them, all the time. We clawed at them with everything we could, and still managed to often ninja and build up the occasional towers + keep and make them work for it. Ask them of Kaineng or Devona’s Rest, and they’ll be the first to tell you how our server never seems to be stomped enough to give up.

However, not to turn on our old spirit but many of us are tired of all this. We’ve put job-like hours into a mere game at times, some incredible coordination, and swallowed up even some of the hardest of guild prides to work together as a server just to maintain the little we have. Many of the core that has carried our server for so long, are simply exhausted from all this. If you ask me, they’ve waited more than long enough for a consistently balanced match-up without having to endure another 3 months of all this. And again, much of this WvW core if you will are hardcore players. People even servers like yours begged to have transfer over. People that did not quit when Kaineng came crashing us, and countless servers flaunted their “greener pastures”. Outside those lost to Devona’s Rest perhaps, very few transferred off at all in the grand scheme of things. The same people, some of which even left former PvX organizations to form dedicated WvW guilds that literally GREW purely from WvW recruitment during the time Kaineng was doing 650+ppt all the time.

Excuse me of I feel a little upset when someone says to such people: “You should wait another 3 months, it would of been better for all of us.”. With server WvW morale so hard at times to maintain at times, people need some hope of foreseeable change in the future. The rating reset brings this for us much quicker than the old broken ratings did. So excuse me if I don’t shun this system as so many others do.

Detharos.3157:

@mrstealth

I’m not worried at all about SF, but the fact is they are the straw that is breaking the camel’s back. Not you tier 4+ servers. You guys come and leave for a week, but we are stuck with an imbalanced match up for another 3 months after we’ve been putting up with it and are just about sick of it at this point, for the past 3 months spare the odd week or so. And yeah, I’m quite familiar with the history. Also note that Ferguson’s population steadily grew from the Christmas boom. Also keep in mind that Ferguson’s Crossing’s scores during the DR era were often reflective of it playing PvDoor vulture while DR and Kaineng were at eachother’s throats.

Week 43 – 27-03 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/6#NA
Early signs of the troubles to come.

Week 44 – 03-10 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/7#NA

Week 45 – 10-17 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/8#NA

Week 46 – 17-24 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/9#NA

Week 47 – 24-01 December
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/10#NA
A rare change in pace! Is this the new era of balanced matchups for Ferguson’s Crossing?

Nope.

Being stuck in never-ending unbalanced matches is simply the plight of the weakest servers. If you have two servers that are weaker than every other server, they will remain at the bottom and get beaten by whoever happens to be the third server in t8. Destroying balance for all servers will do little to alleviate this problem.

And about SF, they will get about 0 points next week against Kaineng and EB. They could easily fall to T5 or lower, especially if the new rankings system allows for more volatility.

fishergrip.4082:

Detharos.3157:

@mrstealth

I’m not worried at all about SF, but the fact is they are the straw that is breaking the camel’s back. Not you tier 4+ servers. You guys come and leave for a week, but we are stuck with an imbalanced match up for another 3 months after we’ve been putting up with it and are just about sick of it at this point, for the past 3 months spare the odd week or so. And yeah, I’m quite familiar with the history. Also note that Ferguson’s population steadily grew from the Christmas boom. Also keep in mind that Ferguson’s Crossing’s scores during the DR era were often reflective of it playing PvDoor vulture while DR and Kaineng were at eachother’s throats.

Week 43 – 27-03 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/6#NA
Early signs of the troubles to come.

Week 44 – 03-10 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/7#NA

Week 45 – 10-17 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/8#NA

Week 46 – 17-24 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/9#NA

Week 47 – 24-01 December
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/10#NA
A rare change in pace! Is this the new era of balanced matchups for Ferguson’s Crossing?

Nope.

Being stuck in never-ending unbalanced matches is simply the plight of the weakest servers. If you have two servers that are weaker than every other server, they will remain at the bottom and get beaten by whoever happens to be the third server in t8. Destroying balance for all servers will do little to alleviate this problem.

And about SF, they will get about 0 points next week against Kaineng and EB. They could easily fall to T5 or lower, especially if the new rankings system allows for more volatility.

Not really. The bottom tiers were quite balanced in the past when free transfers didn’t ruin it, there’s no reason to expect there couldn’t be 3 approximately equal forces in the bottom tier like there were in the far past. And while paid transfers are now in effect, that 200+ rating gap that had existed between tier 8 and 7 WAS completely artificial, built by weeks of balanced matchups with no blowouts combined with higher tiers seeing blowouts, and further accentuated and exaggerated when transfers saw blowouts in our tier combined with the chaos of the fluctuating numbers in tiers above. The past ratings were whether higher tiers accept it or not broken, albeit not for every server or tier. But in the course of things, the numbers were thrown completely off by intense population fluctuation. And again, I’m not saying the current rating reset is being ideally executed. Combining it with 24 hour matchups until the tiers formed up authoritatively and accurately sounded like a brilliant idea to me, but clearly not everyone felt so. Again, supposedly new math in the system will come into play soon too.

And not to say that you in particular think this way, but I just don’t see why so many are jumping the gun in the forums as though this is the Guild Wars 2 WvW extinction event, if you get my drift. People could at least wait til the details of that up and coming “new math” are spilled before passing such negative judgments on the system.

Besides, seeing new faces will be fun in some ways no? Some lucky geeks could even meet their “soul mate” while fighting a server they wouldn’t of fought originally! Well not likely, but you never know.

I don’t even know why I’ve been at odds with that mrstealth fellow to begin with. If it were up to me, server tiers would of been arranged based on surveyed WvW population, timezone coverage and all the like rather than all the alternatives. As well as whether they’d move up or down.

I like the idea of the reset because it will throw the EU table into chaos which is just fun in a weird sadistic sense.

but I also agree they were fine before and the previous rating system was designed to take into account your current rating in respect to the ratings of those you are currently playing which would reward massive landslide wins with quick rank bumps.

Seriously , why all this points BS , Winners should advance losers should fall all this fancy points crap is just over complicating things that should be simple.

I’m glad you find the simple truth of the matter entertaining.

I would love to have the matches you had with versus SF last month over the month of hell we had running the DB, Mag, Kain gauntlet. Having to fight tooth and nail to keep a relevant presence on the maps is what wvw is about.

What did YB have for our last few matchups? Losing absolutely everything we had daily, barely being able to hold our home garrison and EB keep during our peak, and not being able to take back anything for more than 10 minutes before a zerg 3-4x our size takes it right back. There was no other server to vulture off of, because they were doing this to both servers they faced.

And right now, with no reset, we would be facing Maguuma again next week when they get pushed out of T3. This is a cycle that is likely to keep happening with them or DB because they aren’t quite good enough for T3, but they are way too good for T4. Those situations are going to happen, and there isn’t anything to change that. But this is still better than having to deal with the train of domination from all the T1-3 servers getting pushed down to low tiers that so many other servers will have to endure.

For every bit of domination that FC had from Kaineng and Devona’s, Kaineng the same thing to everyone else in their wake. FC is not some lone stepchild left out in the cold, rankings and matchups have been chaotic and quite a few servers have suffered because of it.

Now let’s take look at the demon you’re painting SF to be. They have been pushed down from tier 6, because couldn’t hold their own in that tier. They could not hold their own in T7, either. So they got pushed down to your tier. Their road from T6 to T8 gave them beatings as bad as, if not worse, than what FC has suffered in the past months. They did well enough in T8 to barely secure first place, which appears to have gotten them some server transfers (perhaps even from your server). Now we’ve established that pre-tranfer SF was beaten down by the T7 servers, so the T7 servers are better than pre-tranfer SF. Pre-transfer SF was able to win over FC, so pre-transfer SF was better than FC. This means that T7 servers are better than FC, too (they beat the server that beat you). So if SF were to magically move up to T7 right now, FC would be facing Henge of Denravi, which has already proved they can best SF (before transfers). They are going to give you a beating, though it won’t be as bad as what SF is doing this week.

You claim that you will have to fight SF for another 8 weeks, but given their current score gap and rating, I find that hard to believe. They gained 50 points last week, and are doing a lot better this week, while HoD continues to lose rating. Next week, or the week after, they will overtake Henge of Denravi. You won’t win that fight, but it’s the most even matchup you’re going to get. This reset is just going to delay that even farther.

Detharos.3157:

If it were up to me, server tiers would of been arranged based on surveyed WvW population, timezone coverage and all the like rather than all the alternatives. As well as whether they’d move up or down.

This would actually make a lot of sense, and would have stopped the trainwreck of the bandwagoner low tier servers moving up through the rankings.

@ Detharos.3157

Nobody’s arguing that the ranking system itself shouldn’t be looked at to allow for more mobility between tiers. Completely resetting the rankings does not need to go hand in hand with changing the math behind the rankings. All this will do is hurt WvW balance for several weeks only to get us back into machups very similar to where we are right now.

mrstealth.6701:

I’m glad you find the simple truth of the matter entertaining.

I would love to have the matches you had with versus SF last month over the month of hell we had running the DB, Mag, Kain gauntlet. Having to fight tooth and nail to keep a relevant presence on the maps is what wvw is about.

What did YB have for our last few matchups? Losing absolutely everything we had daily, barely being able to hold our home garrison and EB keep during our peak, and not being able to take back anything for more than 10 minutes before a zerg 3-4x our size takes it right back. There was no other server to vulture off of, because they were doing this to both servers they faced.

And right now, with no reset, we would be facing Maguuma again next week when they get pushed out of T3. This is a cycle that is likely to keep happening with them or DB because they aren’t quite good enough for T3, but they are way too good for T4. Those situations are going to happen, and there isn’t anything to change that. But this is still better than having to deal with the train of domination from all the T1-3 servers getting pushed down to low tiers that so many other servers will have to endure.

For every bit of domination that FC had from Kaineng and Devona’s, Kaineng the same thing to everyone else in their wake. FC is not some lone stepchild left out in the cold, rankings and matchups have been chaotic and quite a few servers have suffered because of it.

Now let’s take look at the demon you’re painting SF to be. They have been pushed down from tier 6, because couldn’t hold their own in that tier. They could not hold their own in T7, either. So they got pushed down to your tier. Their road from T6 to T8 gave them beatings as bad as, if not worse, than what FC has suffered in the past months. They did well enough in T8 to barely secure first place, which appears to have gotten them some server transfers (perhaps even from your server). Now we’ve established that pre-tranfer SF was beaten down by the T7 servers, so the T7 servers are better than pre-tranfer SF. Pre-transfer SF was able to win over FC, so pre-transfer SF was better than FC. This means that T7 servers are better than FC, too (they beat the server that beat you). So if SF were to magically move up to T7 right now, FC would be facing Henge of Denravi, which has already proved they can best SF (before transfers). They are going to give you a beating, though it won’t be as bad as what SF is doing this week.

You claim that you will have to fight SF for another 8 weeks, but given their current score gap and rating, I find that hard to believe. They gained 50 points last week, and are doing a lot better this week, while HoD continues to lose rating. Next week, or the week after, they will overtake Henge of Denravi. You won’t win that fight, but it’s the most even matchup you’re going to get. This reset is just going to delay that even farther.

Wrong.
FC beat pre-transfer SF.
Check and mate.

Darek.1836:

Wrong.
FC beat pre-transfer SF.
Check and mate.

FC barely won a single matchup, and SF won the next week by a larger margin. And I highly doubt they had a lot of tranfsers the week after coming in second. Bandwagoners would have been more likely to move to FC. To be honest, both of them looked to be good matchups, but pre-transfer SF proved they were quite capable of besting FC.

And this is a forum, not a game of chess.

The big variable here is how the new math behind the ratings is going to work, and whether or not that will significantly impact how the new matchups look. One interesting thing I’ve noticed on the millennium site though is that T1 is so evenly matched right now that even with the havoc of the new ratings, the same matchup is set to happen again as T4.
In the end I think it would have been better to let the ratings system bring the servers to where they belong and have a few servers in the wrong tiers until they level out, rather than having essentially the entire system be a mess for the next couple of months. The system may not be at perfect balance yet, but a partially balanced system is better than a clusterkittened system.

style.6173:

I do not understand all the QQ from the whiners. Just enjoy the new matchups. It will be fun seeing new servers. In a few weeks, the servers who should be at the top will be there, and the servers who should be at the bottom will be there as well.

It’s not people whining, it’s people that don’t want to see every tier having horribly outmatched servers. Next week’s T1 matchup consists of this week’s #4, 13, and 22. I doubt that anyone on #22 (or even 13) will be having much fun next week. Ehmry is a solid T4 contender, that I can vouch for, but they are going to be destroyed by Blackgate. Sorrow’s Furnace will be lucky to get 10-15 potential points at any given time.

The most mismatched battle this week is nothing compared to the 600k/5k/5k matches we will see after the reset.

I am happy for SF being in T1. Good for them. Don’t let the mythical WM or zergbots get to you; play – have fun – don’t give up.

Thustlewhumber.7416:

I am happy for SF being in T1. Good for them. Don’t let the mythical WM or zergbots get to you; play – have fun – don’t give up.

Yes, agreed, except for your need to add “bots” into the zerg. We aren’t bots. We wanted to win all the way back in T8. Mostly WvW dedicated servers transferred to us, for their own stated reasons. We embraced this and out of necessesity embraced the predominant play style of higher, winning tiers. We had a hunger to win, and we have feasted. We will meet our match, and be satisfied.

GL to SF next week, let’s try and have fun. And remember…don’t sleep…ever. The WM “boogie zergbot” will get yous.

This is gona be hilarious, and i really hope they got some deeper balancing behind this. At this rate its looking like the nr19 and nr25 of EU will have to face off against the nr1 of EU.
And the nr11 and 20 against the nr2.

ah.. now if you’re owning you must be zergbotting is it ?

Perhaps I’m wrong here – but as far as I can remember, Ferguson’s Crossing has never experienced any major influx of transfers to our server. We may have had a few people here and there join. We’ve certainly had people leave. But, I can’t, for the life of me, remember a huge influx of WvW’ers joining our server at any point that helped us turn the tide of any of our battles.

Now, I’ve been part of the Ferguson’s Crossing server from day 1 of game release. I’ve never changed, and I’m never going to change (especially now with paid-transfers up and running). I’ve battled in WvW almost every single week (except these last two). My experience is that our server fights hard and we fight long. We maintain our position in T8 – but we don’t make any headway – especially considering the servers that we’ve had the pleasure of matching up against. DR, Kain, and now Sorrows.

As Moobs said, when Sorrows first hit T8, we (FC) obviously didn’t wipe the floor with them – but for ONCE in months – we took top score even if only by a hair. For once – we had an even match. And you know what? It was fun.

After that though, the transfers started once again. Did they transfer to FC? No. They hit up SF – and once again, we were facing another DR and Kain – 10 vs. 1 player-base. As much as that sucked for us – we simply shrugged it off as normal and did what we always do. We fought back.

Also, I’m just going to throw this out there: It was said that FC hasn’t really experienced the sort of “loss” that other higher-tiered servers have experienced. It has been said that FC hasn’t had to endure the loss of tiers. You’re right. We haven’t. But tell me this. We’re in T8 – where else do you expect us to go? How is it fair to say that we’ve not experienced this when the mechanics of the game do not allow us to? We could be curb stomped week after week – and nothing would ever change. Our position would remain the same. Only the scores will indicate that we suffered any sort of “loss”.

So to say that we should suck it up and deal with it is unfair, to say the least. We’ve fought hard. We’ve lost hard and consistently – but not because we’re no good at the game, but rather because the numbers are not in our favor. I for one fully believe that if you throw our server into a match-up with two evenly populated servers, we’ll hold our own and we’ll shine.

So – don’t count us out, and don’t make our frustrations out to be that of petty whiners/sore losers. We’ve got legitimate reasons for being frustrated. It’s hard losing repeatedly to uneven matches. In fact, it’s hard losing period. I’m sure anybody here can agree with that. It has been the story of our server since our DR match-up days. We want to start winning. Pure and simple.

I’d be lying if I said that we are not looking forward to our moment in the sun – and our chance to rise to higher tiers.

So of course we are looking forward to this new system – with the hopes that things will start evening out. We also understand that it is going to take time for the system to balance itself out – but we look forward to that as well. When it does, maybe WvW will be fun for us (and for other servers who have had to deal with poor match-ups for weeks/months on end), again.

if the current glicko is still to be used to determine the next match up, a little politics may involve in determining which tier your server want to play next week… few servers could try not to push too hard to avoid match up with the big boys like SoS, JQ and SoR to avoid being roflstomped…..

Unfortunately, FC (among others) was the victim of a flawed system that had one very huge mistake left open for far too long. Free transfers. Large guilds looking to hop servers for free, had an easier time moving to low tier servers because they weren’t full constantly and didn’t already have a long wvw queues. Of course, this put them into a matchup versus much weaker servers that didn’t have a massive wvw guild presence.

Tiers 7 and 8 were a breeding ground for this kind of disaster, but those trails of destruction go all way up through tiers 4, 5, and 6 as well. Kaineng is continuing to dominate scores in T3 this week, although their opponents are putting up more of a fight than anyone before them.

FC had to endure the beginnings of several bandwagon servers, but with free transfers gone that is coming to an end. With existing rankings, SF would be gone in a week or two, and Henge of Denravi would be bumped down to T8. I don’t think that is a matchup FC would win, but it would be similar to what SF was before they got transfers. FC should hold a solid 2nd place trailing a bit behind HoD, maybe winning out some weeks. I think that is the most even matchup FC has available.

Looking at all of the tiers, this week’s matchups are some of the most balanced we have seen in a long time. There are 3 points of imbalance.
1) Kaineng in T3
2) Ehmry Bay in T5
3) Sorrow’s Furnace in T8

Given just another week or two of the current rankings, a few (most likely good) things should happen.

1)Kaineng will trade places with Fort Aspenwood, putting them in into T2. FA will be in T3 with Maguuma and Dragonbrand. It’s a matchup FA has already won by a decent margin, but it’s far more balanced the current T3 match. Mag, or maybe DB, will likely spend a week dominating T4(my tier) before this happens, but that’s an acceptable casualty on the road to balance.

2) Ehmry Bay will move up to T4 with Yak’s Bend and Crystal Desert, pushing Stormbluff Isle into T5. Again, there may still be some imbalance along the road to this, but EB has proven themselves to be a solid T4 contender just a few weeks ago. YB/CD/EB is a matchup I would love to see happening in 1-2 weeks.

3)Sorrows Furance will move to T7, pushing Henge of Denravi into T8. As I said above, this is the most balanced matchup T8 has any hopes for at the moment. SF will likely continue doing well into T7, but the matchup will be a improvement over the current one. They will end up at the top of T7 or being in T6 with a few more weeks.

We are so close to finally having balance, and resetting it into chaos makes absolutely no sense. The best thing that can happen right now, is to apply the new math to the current matchups/ratings to allow this balance to happen even faster. Maybe even some manual/forced tweaking to ensure T2 Kaineng, T4 Ehmry, and T7 Sorrow’s next week.

With this coming reset, that is gone, and we are back to weeks of domination as high tier servers like DB and Maguuma are pushed down to T8. As of now, next week’s matchup for FC is Devona’s Rest and Isle of Janthir. IoJ lost a huge bit of their population, so I doubt they will be much assistance in stopping DR’s train of destruction from stomping FC into the ground. And once that is over, FC has a chance of meeting Maguuma/Dragonbrand for the next week.

If I was on FC, I would be hoping for no reset and looking forward 1-2 weeks when SF is gone. Because the alternative is spending those 2 weeks in matchups that make SF look like a pack of toddlers.

So many threads on this topic, absolutely no response from ANET. I guess our view is unimportant in the grand ‘three months to late’ vision of ANET’s.

Personly i dont see the problem.. it will be all back to normal in a few weeks..
And the servers that lost a lot of people or got a lot of new people will be on the right spots faster.

Dutchares.6084:

Personly i dont see the problem.. it will be all back to normal in a few weeks..
And the servers that lost a lot of people or got a lot of new people will be on the right spots faster.

Because we will spend a few weeks of completely boring, upset matches to get right back to where we are now. So what is the point? I have no interest in one boring week, let alone a few.

The reset should go a few weeks before when some of the servers got high transfers in, dominate the whole 4 maps and jump up tier like rocket. But now all those servers more or less already in the suitable tier, then reset the score at this late?

Action if not do at the right time may only do harm.