~Shadowkat
Why is everyone complaining about Zergs?
Because people like to complain online…
WvW is about big armies fighting big armies. Do smaller ‘havoc squads’ and ‘kill teams’ have a place? Absolutely.
But, if said small team runs into a 30+ person zerg, and tries to stand their ground (for whatever reason) then the odds should not be in their favor.
Sure, skill can help. Good tactics on the part of the small team can help. And hell, despite the odds, the small team /could/ manage to come out on top. It’s not an impossibility.
But that should never be an automatic thing, even if it is just because of sheer overwhelming numbers.
Zergs are here to stay, whether you like them or not. If you never want to deal with the fact they you might be outnumbered and overwhelmed, then sPvP is over that way…
Fairly certain people aren’t wanting zergs to just vanish. They just have too much going for them right now. Zerg revives, 5 man aoe damage cap, culling, small zones, etc. These things all benefit the zergs and should be balanced out. Currently being in a zerg has only ‘pros’ and no ‘cons’. Players need to be punished for making stupid mistakes, like not paying attention in a zerg and getting flanked, over-extending, making poor maneuvering choices. Zerg surfing is sometimes part of the game, but making it the focus through intentional or unintentional game choices/design is quite unfortunate.
Here are some chilling words from the guy who helped make DAoC, take heed brothers!
http://citystateentertainment.com/2013/02/foundational-principle-3/
Zergs will be zergs. No big deal. Fix it by removing the down-state/rez mechanic. When you die – you die. Simple fix for WvW.
Hern | Sceptus | Vulkus | Colbane
[DIS] and [TTC]
Tarnished Coast
[DIS] and [TTC]
Tarnished Coast
I have ran solo, in small groups and with a zerg. The difference that I find most pronounced is I do not have to “think” while running with a zerg. A zerg is a mindless entity going from target to target and crushing that target with numbers versus any measure of thought. So on those days when I just do not feel like thinking I run with the pack.
Theftwind (HoD)
The problem is that skill does not play enough of a role. Of course skill could matter to much and make the game inaccessible to new players but as it stands numbers > all
I have lost 2v1’s (where i was on the team of two) and consequentially i have also won 1v2’s (where i faced two opponents alone). I can’t speak for gear but everyone was lv 80. Yes, skill matters, and numbers do NOT trump all. I’m sure many others have had similar experiences of winning and losing outnumbered open field fights. Also, have you not seen the 4v30 videos? or the 7v50?
Numbers is the greatest advantage you can have, I’ll admit that, but that’s the way it SHOULD be.
The 4v30 and 7v50 video is not even worth watching. The zerg is scared of attacking them thus getting free hits off. Only when last couple minute of the 7v50 the zerg realized what are we doing? Lets push them and came there down fall.When they can easily push through and crush them. If that was in a higher tier server they would of just get wrecked no problem.
That’s something called superior (or in the 30/50’s case inferior) skill.
Someone said numbers trump all, so I showed him an example where it doesn’t. it’s really really simple.
If you’re not convinced, just watch any number of Red Guard’s videos. They wipe hundreds with a group of like 20 all the time.
(edited by Teamkiller.4315)
Zerging is a valid tactic, however the current problem with zergs in WvW are:
-Culling.
-No collision detection, which causes stacking together to be an optimal strategy that feels unrealistic and diminishes the lethality of real tactics like formations, flanking, etc.
-The map is arguably too small and portals are too convenient, leading to insufficient strategic repercussions for concentrating your forces, i.e. having less map coverage.
Engineer – Thief – Warrior
Teamkiller, it sounds to me that you yourself have no skill, therefore you must run with everyone else who has no skill, 30v5, dont matter how good the 5 people are, the 30 horrible players will win due to sheer damage and not skill.
Get some son.
Idolizethis Warrior
Arkham (Ark)
Arkham (Ark)
The problem is that skill does not play enough of a role. Of course skill could matter to much and make the game inaccessible to new players but as it stands numbers > all
I have lost 2v1’s (where i was on the team of two) and consequentially i have also won 1v2’s (where i faced two opponents alone). I can’t speak for gear but everyone was lv 80. Yes, skill matters, and numbers do NOT trump all. I’m sure many others have had similar experiences of winning and losing outnumbered open field fights. Also, have you not seen the 4v30 videos? or the 7v50?
Numbers is the greatest advantage you can have, I’ll admit that, but that’s the way it SHOULD be.
The 4v30 and 7v50 video is not even worth watching. The zerg is scared of attacking them thus getting free hits off. Only when last couple minute of the 7v50 the zerg realized what are we doing? Lets push them and came there down fall.When they can easily push through and crush them. If that was in a higher tier server they would of just get wrecked no problem.
That’s something called superior (or in the 30/50’s case inferior) skill.
Someone said numbers trump all, so I showed him an example where it doesn’t. it’s really really simple.
If you’re not convinced, just watch any number of Red Guard’s videos. They wipe hundreds with a group of like 20 all the time.
Red guard sounds like a zerg guild, not the best way to back up your point.
20v30 the 20 players well win if they have some organization, but that doesnt mean its not zerg v zerg.
I also think your exaggerating. Im not t1 or anything so slap me if im wrong but a 100+ zerg? sounds crazy to me seems like that force would dominate said map.
If you want some fun fights, come roam with the most skilled players this game has to offer- OG
Idolizethis Warrior
Arkham (Ark)
Arkham (Ark)
(edited by Mike.7320)
Teamkiller, it sounds to me that you yourself have no skill, therefore you must run with everyone else who has no skill, 30v5, dont matter how good the 5 people are, the 30 horrible players will win due to sheer damage and not skill.
Get some son.
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not. Also did you maybe fail to read and miss the part where I said I roam as well as zerg? Oh and if you’ve never held off 30 with 5 people you shouldn’t be telling me I have no skill, nor should you be bragging that OG is the best, because there are people who have won 5v30’s, and were on the 5 side. (granted, against horrible players, but you did say “doesn’t matter how good the 5 are”)
I also think your exaggerating. Im not t1 or anything so slap me if im wrong but a 100+ zerg? sounds crazy to me seems like that force would dominate said map.
hyperbole.
If you want some fun fights, come roam with the most skilled players this game has to offer- OG
It’s nice of you to offer but I’m going to decline after the insult you tossed at me in the last post.
People who have no issue with culling are ones running with zerg. More players you run with better off you are. Even in zerg vs zerg you are proably getting culling it is you just don’t notice it as 50v50 when 25 enemy is culled is not as bad when it is 50v10. 10 is at such a hugh disadvantage because 50 people see them right away but 10 only see 5 then 10 then 15 till the 50 kill 10 and even then takes a few seconds for server to send data.
If don’t believe that server is doing culling watch your data rate on your pc. It will be pretty much constant from a 20v20 to a 50v50. Because Anet is trying to save money it limiting amount of data sent to each client. And excuse they gave was that they had to limit it due to “slower client connections” Which is bull spit because game minimum requirements are broadband.
Teamkiller, it sounds to me that you yourself have no skill, therefore you must run with everyone else who has no skill, 30v5, dont matter how good the 5 people are, the 30 horrible players will win due to sheer damage and not skill.
Get some son.
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not. Also did you maybe fail to read and miss the part where I said I roam as well as zerg? Oh and if you’ve never held off 30 with 5 people you shouldn’t be telling me I have no skill, nor should you be bragging that OG is the best, because there are people who have won 5v30’s, and were on the 5 side. (granted, against horrible players, but you did say “doesn’t matter how good the 5 are”)
I also think your exaggerating. Im not t1 or anything so slap me if im wrong but a 100+ zerg? sounds crazy to me seems like that force would dominate said map.
hyperbole.
If you want some fun fights, come roam with the most skilled players this game has to offer- OG
It’s nice of you to offer but I’m going to decline after the insult you tossed at me in the last post.
Id like to see this video of 5v30. When you find it post it otherwise your full of kitten.
Idolizethis Warrior
Arkham (Ark)
Arkham (Ark)
…
2.) The current rendering issues (mistakenly called culling) make it impossible to tell exactly where the “front” of the pursuing zerg is. This makes it nearly impossible to effectively “kite” the whole zerg.
…
Please don’t call culling a rendering issue as they really are two separate things. Culling is part code Anet is using to limit the amount of bandwidth sent to each client. Even with superfast computer you will still have culling due to server only telling you info for 25 players out of 50.
20v30 the 20 players well win if they have some organization, but that doesnt mean its not zerg v zerg.
Look at RG’s numbers. Do they look like a zerg guild to you?
Also it’s not just “some organization”. Look at all the boons stacked on each person, look at how the blast finishers set off water fields and heal everyone, look at how everyone’s health is almost always full. Look at how QUICKLY RG wipes those larger guilds.
Id like to see this video of 5v30. When you find it post it otherwise your full of kitten.
It’s a bit humiliating to post because it was my old server up against those 4 guys, but whatever. Here ya go:
(edited by Teamkiller.4315)
20v30 the 20 players well win if they have some organization, but that doesnt mean its not zerg v zerg.
Look at RG’s numbers. Do they look like a zerg guild to you?
Also it’s not just “some organization”. Look at all the boons stacked on each person, look at how the blast finishers set off water fields and heal everyone, look at how everyone’s health is almost always full. Look at how QUICKLY RG wipes those larger guilds.
Id like to see this video of 5v30. When you find it post it otherwise your full of kitten.
It’s a bit humiliating to post because it was my old server, but whatever. Here ya go:
About 15 players chased you guys, very doable at a choke point, deff not 30v5 though.
Idolizethis Warrior
Arkham (Ark)
Arkham (Ark)
Because people like to complain online…
WvW is about big armies fighting big armies. Do smaller ‘havoc squads’ and ‘kill teams’ have a place? Absolutely.
But, if said small team runs into a 30+ person zerg, and tries to stand their ground (for whatever reason) then the odds should not be in their favor.
Sure, skill can help. Good tactics on the part of the small team can help. And hell, despite the odds, the small team /could/ manage to come out on top. It’s not an impossibility.
But that should never be an automatic thing, even if it is just because of sheer overwhelming numbers.
Zergs are here to stay, whether you like them or not. If you never want to deal with the fact they you might be outnumbered and overwhelmed, then sPvP is over that way…Even the games mentioned used “extend groups” to wipe superior numbers. No one “stood their ground”.
The issue in GW2 for elite 5-mans, currently, is threefold:
1.) Causing a player to overextend does nothing as they are revived by the wave flooding over them (dead player should not be rezzable from defeated in combat, downed state, sure, but not totally defeated.).
2.) The current rendering issues (mistakenly called culling) make it impossible to tell exactly where the “front” of the pursuing zerg is. This makes it nearly impossible to effectively “kite” the whole zerg.
3.) Aoe caps make it so that AOE CC applied, only affects 5 players. If groups could snare an entire zerg with an aoe, a 5-man, if well played, could force a zerg to “extend” making the numbers more manageable. They’d then only have to deal with a few overextenders, then rinse and repeat.
its as easy as 1,2,3………………………
good post sir.
Furrygreen-PAXA-BAMF
Furgerat-Virus23-DAOC
Furrygreen-Abstract-DAOC
Furgerat-Virus23-DAOC
Furrygreen-Abstract-DAOC
20v30 the 20 players well win if they have some organization, but that doesnt mean its not zerg v zerg.
Look at RG’s numbers. Do they look like a zerg guild to you?
Also it’s not just “some organization”. Look at all the boons stacked on each person, look at how the blast finishers set off water fields and heal everyone, look at how everyone’s health is almost always full. Look at how QUICKLY RG wipes those larger guilds.
Id like to see this video of 5v30. When you find it post it otherwise your full of kitten.
It’s a bit humiliating to post because it was my old server, but whatever. Here ya go:
About 15 players chased you guys, very doable at a choke point, deff not 30v5 though.
It’s not me. The guy who did it is named Zoose. Also, You implied that 30 v 5 is unwinnable no matter how horrid the 30 is or how good is the 5 are, well those 4 guys just cause the 30 (or the half that lived) to run. Still want to claim that?
Because people like to complain online…
WvW is about big armies fighting big armies. Do smaller ‘havoc squads’ and ‘kill teams’ have a place? Absolutely.
But, if said small team runs into a 30+ person zerg, and tries to stand their ground (for whatever reason) then the odds should not be in their favor.
Sure, skill can help. Good tactics on the part of the small team can help. And hell, despite the odds, the small team /could/ manage to come out on top. It’s not an impossibility.
But that should never be an automatic thing, even if it is just because of sheer overwhelming numbers.
Zergs are here to stay, whether you like them or not. If you never want to deal with the fact they you might be outnumbered and overwhelmed, then sPvP is over that way…Even the games mentioned used “extend groups” to wipe superior numbers. No one “stood their ground”.
The issue in GW2 for elite 5-mans, currently, is threefold:
1.) Causing a player to overextend does nothing as they are revived by the wave flooding over them (dead player should not be rezzable from defeated in combat, downed state, sure, but not totally defeated.).
2.) The current rendering issues (mistakenly called culling) make it impossible to tell exactly where the “front” of the pursuing zerg is. This makes it nearly impossible to effectively “kite” the whole zerg.
3.) Aoe caps make it so that AOE CC applied, only affects 5 players. If groups could snare an entire zerg with an aoe, a 5-man, if well played, could force a zerg to “extend” making the numbers more manageable. They’d then only have to deal with a few overextenders, then rinse and repeat.
its as easy as 1,2,3………………………
good post sir.
Point #1 is as wrong as it gets. doing a 5v20 fight as a roaming guild, causing players to over extend is the way to wipe the zerg.
Idolizethis Warrior
Arkham (Ark)
Arkham (Ark)
After a certain level of not being brain dead the 30 win every time. Just because 4 people beat 30 functionally afk guys this one time doessent mean the balance is where it should be.
We’ve beat 30 with 5 as well (killed 30. Its impossible to fully wipe it thanks to rezzing and need to extend). It requires pitiful play and plenty of up levels. All they have to do is push and its game over.
OINK – Devona’s Rest
Mesmer-Thief
http://www.youtube.com/user/Axcelerion?feature=watch – Small group videos
Mesmer-Thief
http://www.youtube.com/user/Axcelerion?feature=watch – Small group videos
5v20 is a good AOE bomb from victory… its the 5v35 that extending has its limitations.
Furrygreen-PAXA-BAMF
Furgerat-Virus23-DAOC
Furrygreen-Abstract-DAOC
Furgerat-Virus23-DAOC
Furrygreen-Abstract-DAOC
Because people like to complain online…
WvW is about big armies fighting big armies. Do smaller ‘havoc squads’ and ‘kill teams’ have a place? Absolutely.
But, if said small team runs into a 30+ person zerg, and tries to stand their ground (for whatever reason) then the odds should not be in their favor.
Sure, skill can help. Good tactics on the part of the small team can help. And hell, despite the odds, the small team /could/ manage to come out on top. It’s not an impossibility.
But that should never be an automatic thing, even if it is just because of sheer overwhelming numbers.
Zergs are here to stay, whether you like them or not. If you never want to deal with the fact they you might be outnumbered and overwhelmed, then sPvP is over that way…Even the games mentioned used “extend groups” to wipe superior numbers. No one “stood their ground”.
The issue in GW2 for elite 5-mans, currently, is threefold:
1.) Causing a player to overextend does nothing as they are revived by the wave flooding over them (dead player should not be rezzable from defeated in combat, downed state, sure, but not totally defeated.).
2.) The current rendering issues (mistakenly called culling) make it impossible to tell exactly where the “front” of the pursuing zerg is. This makes it nearly impossible to effectively “kite” the whole zerg.
3.) Aoe caps make it so that AOE CC applied, only affects 5 players. If groups could snare an entire zerg with an aoe, a 5-man, if well played, could force a zerg to “extend” making the numbers more manageable. They’d then only have to deal with a few overextenders, then rinse and repeat.
its as easy as 1,2,3………………………
good post sir.
Point #1 is as wrong as it gets. doing a 5v20 fight as a roaming guild, causing players to over extend is the way to wipe the zerg.
Only if the rest don’t pursue you.
Also, your assumption about 30 players having no skill is wrong. You see zergs usually form because a commander is on the map calling people to rally on him to achieve an objective. At least in the higher tiers it is like that. Hence, those 30 are going to be composed of a variety of people. Some will be absolutely horrid, but that’s OK because they’re new and learning (or maybe they’re experienced and still bad, but everyone has the right to play the game, so it’s still fine because they’re usually still helping in some way). Most will be OK players, and a few will be good. Why should a five man group have ANY advantage over them in the open field?
I totally agree with lowering downed state health and getting rid of resurrecting dead players, but the idea of nerfing a zerg just cause they’re a zerg is silly.
Because people like to complain online…
WvW is about big armies fighting big armies. Do smaller ‘havoc squads’ and ‘kill teams’ have a place? Absolutely.
But, if said small team runs into a 30+ person zerg, and tries to stand their ground (for whatever reason) then the odds should not be in their favor.
Sure, skill can help. Good tactics on the part of the small team can help. And hell, despite the odds, the small team /could/ manage to come out on top. It’s not an impossibility.
But that should never be an automatic thing, even if it is just because of sheer overwhelming numbers.
Zergs are here to stay, whether you like them or not. If you never want to deal with the fact they you might be outnumbered and overwhelmed, then sPvP is over that way…Even the games mentioned used “extend groups” to wipe superior numbers. No one “stood their ground”.
The issue in GW2 for elite 5-mans, currently, is threefold:
1.) Causing a player to overextend does nothing as they are revived by the wave flooding over them (dead player should not be rezzable from defeated in combat, downed state, sure, but not totally defeated.).
2.) The current rendering issues (mistakenly called culling) make it impossible to tell exactly where the “front” of the pursuing zerg is. This makes it nearly impossible to effectively “kite” the whole zerg.
3.) Aoe caps make it so that AOE CC applied, only affects 5 players. If groups could snare an entire zerg with an aoe, a 5-man, if well played, could force a zerg to “extend” making the numbers more manageable. They’d then only have to deal with a few overextenders, then rinse and repeat.
its as easy as 1,2,3………………………
good post sir.
Point #1 is as wrong as it gets. doing a 5v20 fight as a roaming guild, causing players to over extend is the way to wipe the zerg.
Only if the rest don’t pursue you.
Also, your assumption about 30 players having no skill is wrong. You see zergs usually form because a commander is on the map calling people to rally on him to achieve an objective. At least in the higher tiers it is like that. Hence, those 30 are going to be composed of a variety of people. Some will be absolutely horrid, but that’s OK because they’re new and learning (or maybe they’re experienced and still bad, but everyone has the right to play the game, so it’s still fine because they’re usually still helping in some way). Most will be OK players, and a few will be good. Why should a five man group have ANY advantage over them in the open field?
I totally agree with lowering downed state health and getting rid of resurrecting dead players, but the idea of nerfing a zerg just cause they’re a zerg is silly.
Where did the nerfing a zerg idea come from? If anet nerfs zergs(?) then who would roaming guilds fight.
Idolizethis Warrior
Arkham (Ark)
Arkham (Ark)
Because people like to complain online…
WvW is about big armies fighting big armies. Do smaller ‘havoc squads’ and ‘kill teams’ have a place? Absolutely.
But, if said small team runs into a 30+ person zerg, and tries to stand their ground (for whatever reason) then the odds should not be in their favor.
Sure, skill can help. Good tactics on the part of the small team can help. And hell, despite the odds, the small team /could/ manage to come out on top. It’s not an impossibility.
But that should never be an automatic thing, even if it is just because of sheer overwhelming numbers.
Zergs are here to stay, whether you like them or not. If you never want to deal with the fact they you might be outnumbered and overwhelmed, then sPvP is over that way…Even the games mentioned used “extend groups” to wipe superior numbers. No one “stood their ground”.
The issue in GW2 for elite 5-mans, currently, is threefold:
1.) Causing a player to overextend does nothing as they are revived by the wave flooding over them (dead player should not be rezzable from defeated in combat, downed state, sure, but not totally defeated.).
2.) The current rendering issues (mistakenly called culling) make it impossible to tell exactly where the “front” of the pursuing zerg is. This makes it nearly impossible to effectively “kite” the whole zerg.
3.) Aoe caps make it so that AOE CC applied, only affects 5 players. If groups could snare an entire zerg with an aoe, a 5-man, if well played, could force a zerg to “extend” making the numbers more manageable. They’d then only have to deal with a few overextenders, then rinse and repeat.
its as easy as 1,2,3………………………
good post sir.
Point #1 is as wrong as it gets. doing a 5v20 fight as a roaming guild, causing players to over extend is the way to wipe the zerg.
Only if the rest don’t pursue you.
Also, your assumption about 30 players having no skill is wrong. You see zergs usually form because a commander is on the map calling people to rally on him to achieve an objective. At least in the higher tiers it is like that. Hence, those 30 are going to be composed of a variety of people. Some will be absolutely horrid, but that’s OK because they’re new and learning (or maybe they’re experienced and still bad, but everyone has the right to play the game, so it’s still fine because they’re usually still helping in some way). Most will be OK players, and a few will be good. Why should a five man group have ANY advantage over them in the open field?
I totally agree with lowering downed state health and getting rid of resurrecting dead players, but the idea of nerfing a zerg just cause they’re a zerg is silly.
Where did the nerfing a zerg idea come from? If anet nerfs zergs(?) then who would roaming guilds fight.
You would fight nerfed zergs, after all you seem to want to (unrealistically) farm zergs like movie heroes do.
Sorry, there are real players behind those _ invader tags, not ai. If you want to win 5v30 PvE is that-a-way.
Because people like to complain online…
WvW is about big armies fighting big armies. Do smaller ‘havoc squads’ and ‘kill teams’ have a place? Absolutely.
But, if said small team runs into a 30+ person zerg, and tries to stand their ground (for whatever reason) then the odds should not be in their favor.
Sure, skill can help. Good tactics on the part of the small team can help. And hell, despite the odds, the small team /could/ manage to come out on top. It’s not an impossibility.
But that should never be an automatic thing, even if it is just because of sheer overwhelming numbers.
Zergs are here to stay, whether you like them or not. If you never want to deal with the fact they you might be outnumbered and overwhelmed, then sPvP is over that way…Even the games mentioned used “extend groups” to wipe superior numbers. No one “stood their ground”.
The issue in GW2 for elite 5-mans, currently, is threefold:
1.) Causing a player to overextend does nothing as they are revived by the wave flooding over them (dead player should not be rezzable from defeated in combat, downed state, sure, but not totally defeated.).
2.) The current rendering issues (mistakenly called culling) make it impossible to tell exactly where the “front” of the pursuing zerg is. This makes it nearly impossible to effectively “kite” the whole zerg.
3.) Aoe caps make it so that AOE CC applied, only affects 5 players. If groups could snare an entire zerg with an aoe, a 5-man, if well played, could force a zerg to “extend” making the numbers more manageable. They’d then only have to deal with a few overextenders, then rinse and repeat.
its as easy as 1,2,3………………………
good post sir.
Point #1 is as wrong as it gets. doing a 5v20 fight as a roaming guild, causing players to over extend is the way to wipe the zerg.
Only if the rest don’t pursue you.
Also, your assumption about 30 players having no skill is wrong. You see zergs usually form because a commander is on the map calling people to rally on him to achieve an objective. At least in the higher tiers it is like that. Hence, those 30 are going to be composed of a variety of people. Some will be absolutely horrid, but that’s OK because they’re new and learning (or maybe they’re experienced and still bad, but everyone has the right to play the game, so it’s still fine because they’re usually still helping in some way). Most will be OK players, and a few will be good. Why should a five man group have ANY advantage over them in the open field?
I totally agree with lowering downed state health and getting rid of resurrecting dead players, but the idea of nerfing a zerg just cause they’re a zerg is silly.
Where did the nerfing a zerg idea come from? If anet nerfs zergs(?) then who would roaming guilds fight.
You would fight nerfed zergs, after all you seem to want to (unrealistically) farm zergs like movie heroes do.
Sorry, there are real players behind those _ invader tags, not ai. If you want to win 5v30 PvE is that-a-way.
You dont seem to know who OG players are. We are THE zerg fighters, no one matches us in skill.
Idolizethis Warrior
Arkham (Ark)
Arkham (Ark)
I’ve seen a couple people with an OG tag on. You see, I’m in Fort Aspenwood.
I’ve seen a couple people with an OG tag on. You see, I’m in Fort Aspenwood.
Dont run away next time than.
Idolizethis Warrior
Arkham (Ark)
Arkham (Ark)
I don’t. I don’t chase small roamers cause I don’t want to overextend; i stick close to the commander (usually).
I tend to ignore smaller numbers of people unless they are in our way, and even then I don’t fight because winning a 30v4 doesn’t exactly make me happy. I like winning 30 v 30s.
I don’t. I don’t chase small roamers cause I don’t want to overextend; i stick close to the commander (usually).
.
You sir are what we call a zerger. Running in numbers doesnt promote healthy learning of your class due to relying on the 30 people behind you as well.
You want to test your metal step away from the zerg and large bodied groups.
Idolizethis Warrior
Arkham (Ark)
Arkham (Ark)
I don’t. I don’t chase small roamers cause I don’t want to overextend; i stick close to the commander (usually).
.You sir are what we call a zerger. Running in numbers doesnt promote healthy learning of your class due to relying on the 30 people behind you as well.
You want to test your metal step away from the zerg and large bodied groups.
Why don’t YOU try taking kitten Stonemist castle with 5 people.
Also i dunno if I’ve hammered this into your head yet but…gasp i also roam
Eh, im not discrediting zergs, who else would get the castle? Im just stating it requires no skill.
Idolizethis Warrior
Arkham (Ark)
Arkham (Ark)
You’ve been trying to discredit ME as a zerger this entire time, saying that I don’t have any skill because I’ve run with a zerg. Like I’ve been telling you in post 1, zergs do things that small man groups cannot. And again, I also roam, and I’ve won (and lost) plenty of small group fights. I know how my class works, thank you very much.
You’ve been trying to discredit ME as a zerger this entire time, saying that I don’t have any skill because I’ve run with a zerg. Like I’ve been telling you in post 1, zergs do things that small man groups cannot. And again, I also roam, and I’ve won (and lost) plenty of small group fights. I know how my class works, thank you very much.
Its not a personal attack on you. More of an attack for people who have the mentality of Numbers=strength.
Idolizethis Warrior
Arkham (Ark)
Arkham (Ark)
But numbers do = strength
Example.
100 farmers with pitchforks and no fighting skill vs 5 marines with assault rifles.
Idolizethis Warrior
Arkham (Ark)
Arkham (Ark)
Nice try, guild wars doesn’t work like that.
Unless of course you are five 80’s in exotics and ascended vs 100 unstealthed lv 2 thieves. That’s the only situation i can think of that matches 100 farmers without fighting skill vs 5 marines with assault rifles.
Also the farmers can win if they all portal bomb the marines.
Your average assualt style rifle has 16 rounds so that 80 shots, no one has 100% accuracy, just an FYI. Sometimes shear numbers beat training and superior fire power.
That’s from one roamer to anouther.
It was 2 vs 20 but its ok we got’em both!
Remove AoE cap. Problem solved.
I don’t want to see the removal of zergs, but I do want to see them take the full brunt of AoE. A good zerg will adapt, split force and converge on the AoE group. A bad zerg will charge through the AoE and come out the other side with much less zerg or they will panic, scatter and not be able to recover.
Your average assualt style rifle has 16 rounds so that 80 shots, no one has 100% accuracy, just an FYI. Sometimes shear numbers beat training and superior fire power.
That’s from one roamer to anouther.
The good ones use 30 :p and the psychological impact of 5×30 bullets whizzing and cracking through the air and splattering blood, faecal matter and brains all over the farmers would be enough to stop them in their tracks long enough to reload the next clip. AoE with no cap has a similar psychological impact on a zerg, the trained will adapt and overcome, the untrained will panic and scatter.
Nerfs to reviving and removing the revival of dead people during combat works as well.
Because people like to complain online…
WvW is about big armies fighting big armies. Do smaller ‘havoc squads’ and ‘kill teams’ have a place? Absolutely.
But, if said small team runs into a 30+ person zerg, and tries to stand their ground (for whatever reason) then the odds should not be in their favor.
Sure, skill can help. Good tactics on the part of the small team can help. And hell, despite the odds, the small team /could/ manage to come out on top. It’s not an impossibility.
But that should never be an automatic thing, even if it is just because of sheer overwhelming numbers.
Zergs are here to stay, whether you like them or not. If you never want to deal with the fact they you might be outnumbered and overwhelmed, then sPvP is over that way…Even the games mentioned used “extend groups” to wipe superior numbers. No one “stood their ground”.
The issue in GW2 for elite 5-mans, currently, is threefold:
1.) Causing a player to overextend does nothing as they are revived by the wave flooding over them (dead player should not be rezzable from defeated in combat, downed state, sure, but not totally defeated.).
2.) The current rendering issues (mistakenly called culling) make it impossible to tell exactly where the “front” of the pursuing zerg is. This makes it nearly impossible to effectively “kite” the whole zerg.
3.) Aoe caps make it so that AOE CC applied, only affects 5 players. If groups could snare an entire zerg with an aoe, a 5-man, if well played, could force a zerg to “extend” making the numbers more manageable. They’d then only have to deal with a few overextenders, then rinse and repeat.
its as easy as 1,2,3………………………
good post sir.
Point #1 is as wrong as it gets. doing a 5v20 fight as a roaming guild, causing players to over extend is the way to wipe the zerg.
Only if the rest don’t pursue you.
Also, your assumption about 30 players having no skill is wrong. You see zergs usually form because a commander is on the map calling people to rally on him to achieve an objective. At least in the higher tiers it is like that. Hence, those 30 are going to be composed of a variety of people. Some will be absolutely horrid, but that’s OK because they’re new and learning (or maybe they’re experienced and still bad, but everyone has the right to play the game, so it’s still fine because they’re usually still helping in some way). Most will be OK players, and a few will be good. Why should a five man group have ANY advantage over them in the open field?
I totally agree with lowering downed state health and getting rid of resurrecting dead players, but the idea of nerfing a zerg just cause they’re a zerg is silly.
Where did the nerfing a zerg idea come from? If anet nerfs zergs(?) then who would roaming guilds fight.
You would fight nerfed zergs, after all you seem to want to (unrealistically) farm zergs like movie heroes do.
Sorry, there are real players behind those _ invader tags, not ai. If you want to win 5v30 PvE is that-a-way.
You dont seem to know who OG players are. We are THE zerg fighters, no one matches us in skill.
Rofl
Your average assualt style rifle has 16 rounds so that 80 shots, no one has 100% accuracy, just an FYI. Sometimes shear numbers beat training and superior fire power.
That’s from one roamer to anouther.
The good ones use 30 :p and the psychological impact of 5×30 bullets whizzing and cracking through the air and splattering blood, faecal matter and brains all over the farmers would be enough to stop them in their tracks long enough to reload the next clip. AoE with no cap has a similar psychological impact on a zerg, the trained will adapt and overcome, the untrained will panic and scatter.
Depends on why the people are fighting really, cornered animal and all that. But that besides the point.
Yes removing or upping the limit on AoE would help a lot but you would also have to add in the fall off effect where the farther from the center of the ae you are the lea damage you take (in the case of range AoE, pbaoe is a risk reward thing). They may also need to bring the damage down due to overlapping AoE also. But that’s what testing is for.
It was 2 vs 20 but its ok we got’em both!
Although I think if they remove AOE caps they should also remove boon caps as well.
Although I think if they remove AOE caps they should also remove boon caps as well.
Meh with in limits maybe I mean heal on boon guard would be unkillable then. Lots of balance changes would need to be done.
It was 2 vs 20 but its ok we got’em both!
No OP, you’re completely wrong. Zergs are used by mindless servers who have no skill and abuse culling and take our jobs. Plus, Zergs undisputably cause people to leave the game and go to wow and cause petrol prices to go up. I can’t believe you’d suggest that Zergs are anything but morally reprehensible.
Because I don’t like the thought that I’m being carried by nothing more than good luck to have more bodies behind me than enemies in front of me.
I’d rather roam solo and get a few victories alone than have a lot of victories just by following a group wondering if I need to be carried.
Bad Looking Necro Tryhard [BLNT] ~ Maguuma
I’d rather roam solo and get a few victories alone than have a lot of victories just by following a group wondering if I need to be carried.
you realize that you can’t really take a tower solo right? You need at least three people to get up one ram. Five people to get up a catapult, ten to get up a trebuchet, etc. etc.
A ginormous part of wvw is siege and assaults won’t succeed without large numbers of people.
Although I think if they remove AOE caps they should also remove boon caps as well.
I wouldn’t have a problem if they removed boon cap, healing cap or any other cap. In the case of AH guards and similar traits, the trait should have the a cap or charges.
I’d rather roam solo and get a few victories alone than have a lot of victories just by following a group wondering if I need to be carried.
you realize that you can’t really take a tower solo right? You need at least three people to get up one ram. Five people to get up a catapult, ten to get up a trebuchet, etc. etc.
A ginormous part of wvw is siege and assaults won’t succeed without large numbers of people.
This is incorrect. I have taken Dreaming Bay keep with 3 players before, a warrior, thief and mesmer, using two catapults and just taking advantage of a server that was being lazy by not posting sentries. Portals were only used to speed up supply to the catapults and were not used to infiltrate or bypass walls.
Because people like the complain.
MMO forums are a vile place.
This. Always this. This statement is the only true thing in MMO Forums. The rest is irrelevant :)
Gearstrip Jones, Engineer, Borlis Pass, [KPUP]
“Which Lo Pan? Little ol’ basket case on wheels, or the ten-foot-tall roadblock?!”
-Kurt Russell, Big Trouble in Little China
“Which Lo Pan? Little ol’ basket case on wheels, or the ten-foot-tall roadblock?!”
-Kurt Russell, Big Trouble in Little China
I’d rather roam solo and get a few victories alone than have a lot of victories just by following a group wondering if I need to be carried.
you realize that you can’t really take a tower solo right? You need at least three people to get up one ram. Five people to get up a catapult, ten to get up a trebuchet, etc. etc.
A ginormous part of wvw is siege and assaults won’t succeed without large numbers of people.
It hasn’t stopped me from trying my endgame for GW2 is to Solo a Keep.
You can get up any siege solo you just have to place it well and take your time. Is it likely to fail? Yeah it is but when it works you feel pretty awesome or at least I do.
I have broken into Keeps before alone but that was many months ago before a lot of people learnt siege placement.
Bad Looking Necro Tryhard [BLNT] ~ Maguuma
This is incorrect. I have taken Dreaming Bay keep with 3 players before, a warrior, thief and mesmer
That’s not solo. Solo means one person. There’s a specific reason it’s incredibly difficult to downright impossible to take a keep or a tower with less than three people. I’ll let you figure that out.
You can get up any siege solo you just have to place it well and take your time.
Guards will respawn in the time it takes you to run supply can ruin what hard work you put into that ram. Not to mention you have to deal with regularly respawning veterans while you ram the gate, veteran archers attacking you from above, and even when you break in you have to solo a champion and more veterans.
That’s assuming that in those 15 minutes no player checks on those white swords in the tower. lol.