Guild Wars 2

Hello everyone! I’m coming off of a 6 month break from GW2 and have some questions. I love WvW and I’m looking to run a havoc squad on my server FA. What group make-up have you all found successful for 5-10 man groups? I play a staff elementalist at the moment and have a Guardian as my alt. I’m really looking to flip camps, take towers when possible and give support for the larger groups taking keeps. Any feedback is appreciated.

DnD ele with either the classic 0/10/0/30/30 or 0/0/20/20/30 with knight,soldier mix and celestial thrown in. Ascended weapons and trinkets are important. Ascended is not a must have as off yet. You will also need rank 230 to compete effectively nowadays with roaming unless u just roll a warrior.

10 man gets into a wide territory of group design. Avoid medium armor classes and pretty much any group with half heavies (5+ Guardian/Warriors) is going to do well.

5 man follows a somewhat similar trajectory avoiding medium armor classes and picking 2-3 heavies minimum. There is a gank design which relies heavily upon mesmers/thieves that is very effective. They call target, pull, use control and spike damage until dead. These groups roam behind zergs and pick off 2-3 targets at a time. They stealth/evade when the zerg turns their direction.

Either group size is going to want a lot of overlapping abilities and fields. Guardians for support, warriors for control/sustained damage, necros for stripping, mesmer for utility (I wouldn’t bring more than 1 in a 5 man or 2 in 10 man) and eles for fields/AoE.

As for your ele, D/D is probably best in a 5 man and staff in a 10 man.

The current meta (at least on FA) run frontlines and backlines. Basically the frontline is the “hammer train” and the backline is usually long-range casters such as eles necros and mesmers. Since you are going to be running a small group of 5-10 you are going to want to create a strategy that can combat this. With the current servers that we are facing its very rare to see a group as small to where you can fight it with 5-10 tbh, but a group of 15-20 can do a lot if you are organized.

Regardless of your group size I would recommend having classes in your comp that can give your party plenty of stability. Its also nice to have a few members that can cleanse conditions. Also having a person or 2 that has the ability to strip boons is great as well since most groups these days stack might and stability before they initiate a fight. So stripping their stability and 25 stacks of might will make your fight a lot easier. On top of that having water fields from engies or staff eles helps a lot as well, as using blast finishers on water fields is the primary way to heal groups right now.

Thanks for the input! Another question. Why is rank 230 needed to compete effectively? Also, in a 10-man group, what’s a good number of elementalists or necros to bring? 1 per 5?

Straegen.2938:

-snip-

this warrior fanboy/fangirl got no clue about roaming, so don’t take what he/she says too litterally.

10 man group you should bring at the very least 3 guardians, 4 at most. Then you bring either 2 eles or 2 necros, depending on what you want to do (attrition or burst). You’ll need 1 mesmer for veils, pulls, mass invis or timewarp, mesmers are a must have utility.
Now you got 3-4 spots left, if going for 10 man group. In those spots you should have 1 venomshare thief, this will give 5 players the ability to dish out immobilize and stun coupled with torment, staff guardian using Staff #1 are very effective at spreading the venoms around due to hitting multiple targets. 1 venomshare thief is enough to grant 5x(3x 2sec immob). The thieves, if using 20/0/30/0/20 can also double as boonrippers using steal. Which rips boons from enemies and give them to 5 allies (free stability).
For the last 2-3 spots i’d take 2 spirit-shout rangers using waterfields and earth spirit alongside muddy terrain, traited guard shout w/rune of the solider (AOE condition cleanse every 12 sec, 360 radius) and entangle. Or if you prefer to be on the extreme offense, 2 trapper rangers.

The final spot?
condi bunker engineer or hammer warrior or another venomshare thief.

Thief should bring SB and sword+dagger, rangers should bring Healing spring and torch. With this combo you can spam might and healing blasts all day long.

CountzuCrytus.7256:

On top of that having water fields from engies or staff eles helps a lot as well, as using blast finishers on water fields is the primary way to heal groups right now.

I agree with most of this fellows post but this last one doesn’t hold up as well in Havoc/Skirmish. Stopping to heal especially in a heavily outnumbered situation will get a small group killed fast. Smaller groups should avoid becoming stationary particularly when they need healing. Guardians and Shout Warriors should easily keep a mobile team healed up without needing to stop for a water field.

The smaller the group the more this advice applies. The only time we become stationary in our 5 man is for fire fields before a fight or to drop a massive amount of DPS on a target area.

1-2 Eles should be plenty, same for necro. Unless you decide to run a backline heavy comp than you should be good.

Shadowlord Pain.8946:

Thanks for the input! Another question. Why is rank 230 needed to compete effectively? Also, in a 10-man group, what’s a good number of elementalists or necros to bring? 1 per 5?

230 is needed for full guard leech and might bonus. Top two traitlines in the WvW trait window.

Prysin.8542:

this warrior fanboy/fangirl got no clue about roaming, so don’t take what he/she says too litterally.

Been playing since Beta, have spent over 2k hours in game most of it WvW, have all 80s fully leveled and geared, most of my time is roaming/skirmishing and have a 50/1 Kill/Death ratio. There are more skilled and experienced players, but in my experience not a lot.

After insulting me you basically gave similar advice except the ranger bit. Venom Share can work, but it requires a VERY good thief to pull it off and you have to hope the opposing team isn’t running a ton of condi removal which most do. Getting conditions to stick to our group is nearly impossible. You keep touting the Ranger class despite practically every skilled fighter in WvW and these forums telling you otherwise.

PS… If you bring a Spirit Ranger into WvW especially into Havoc… it will get torn to pieces by any hammer train. Spirits cannot dodge AoE and die so quickly it makes them useless.

Straegen.2938:

CountzuCrytus.7256:

On top of that having water fields from engies or staff eles helps a lot as well, as using blast finishers on water fields is the primary way to heal groups right now.

I agree with most of this fellows post but this last one doesn’t hold up as well in Havoc/Skirmish. Stopping to heal especially in a heavily outnumbered situation will get a small group killed fast. Smaller groups should avoid becoming stationary particularly when they need healing. Guardians and Shout Warriors should easily keep a mobile team healed up without needing to stop for a water field.

The smaller the group the more this advice applies. The only time we become stationary in our 5 man is for fire fields before a fight or to drop a massive amount of DPS on a target area.

Its true that blasting water fields is not as significant as it would be in a bigger group and that smaller heals such as warrior shouts are very good to use. But you do not have to be stationary to blast a water field. Regardless of group size any group that stays stationary too long is a dead group, it doesn’t matter if it’s a group or 30 or 10.

CountzuCrytus.7256:

Its true that blasting water fields is not as significant as it would be in a bigger group and that smaller heals such as warrior shouts are very good to use. But you do not have to be stationary to blast a water field. Regardless of group size any group that stays stationary too long is a dead group, it doesn’t matter if it’s a group or 30 or 10.

I wouldn’t exclude waterfields from small group fighting because they can save a teams bacon but they become more of a utility and less of a mainstay. Our 5 man doesn’t actively run with a decent waterfield since we don’t run with Engis, staff Eles and are not crazy enough to run with a Ranger.

There is some threshold where stationary water fields become incredibly powerful though. Because of AoE limits, healing in medium plus sized groups out strip AoE damage so a solid team of 15 or more can stand in the middle of three times their number and survive. However my experience is that the larger the force the more likelihood someone will slip up and drop a light field over a water field and get everyone killed.

10 man seems to be right at that threshold and as I stated originally 10 man is VERY dynamic. Only the heavy armor anchors seem to be consistent.

Straegen.2938:

CountzuCrytus.7256:

Its true that blasting water fields is not as significant as it would be in a bigger group and that smaller heals such as warrior shouts are very good to use. But you do not have to be stationary to blast a water field. Regardless of group size any group that stays stationary too long is a dead group, it doesn’t matter if it’s a group or 30 or 10.

I wouldn’t exclude waterfields from small group fighting because they can save a teams bacon but they become more of a utility and less of a mainstay. Our 5 man doesn’t actively run with a decent waterfield since we don’t run with Engis, staff Eles and are not crazy enough to run with a Ranger.

There is some threshold where stationary water fields become incredibly powerful though. Because of AoE limits, healing in medium plus sized groups out strip AoE damage so a solid team of 15 or more can stand in the middle of three times their number and survive. However my experience is that the larger the force the more likelihood someone will slip up and drop a light field over a water field and get everyone killed.

10 man seems to be right at that threshold and as I stated originally 10 man is VERY dynamic. Only the heavy armor anchors seem to be consistent.

This is true…
To clarify more on what I meant when I said blasting water for a small group such as this… instead of your group stacking>water-field> blast as you would in a zerg. You could call out a target and have your ele place the water-field right as you are about to spike the enemy. Any leaps or blast finishers used will heal the player or the group around it, no time lost stacking. It can be as simple as your ele going to water casting Healing rain and then going back to something more productive like say a meteor shower or immobilize with Shockwave.

This is just one strategy or way to do it.

Putting the blasting water field discussion aside and going back to the OP…
Whatever comp you decide to run, make sure you have a solid strategy and everyone knows what their role is in the group and when to use certain skills. You could have someone calling marks on enemies for everyone to spike or when you get plenty of conditions ask for a cleanse etc etc…Communication is key.
Best of luck to you and see you on FABL

CountzuCrytus.7256:

Putting the blasting water field discussion aside and going back to the OP…
Whatever comp you decide to run, make sure you have a solid strategy and everyone knows what their role is in the group and when to use certain skills. You could have someone calling marks on enemies for everyone to spike or when you get plenty of conditions ask for a cleanse etc etc…Communication is key.
Best of luck to you and see you on FABL

To add to this sentiment, external communication programs (Teamspeak, Ventrillo or my favorite Mumble) can really elevate a team particularly when dissecting losses. I would add video recording to that as well. I learn so much from watching my prior wins/losses for mistakes.

The most important aspect of getting better is practice but discussion is a close second. Being able to openly discuss a loss and why it happened… being able to see your play in hindsight… these are incredibly valuable for this style of play.

Being able to call out a guardian buddy for dropping their light field over an electrical or water field… priceless!

Thank you for all of the feedback! It has been very helpful.

The moment you said “Avoid medium armor classes” you wrote yourself into history as the least knowledgeable roamer ever.

The ultimate and most commonly accepted king of roaming is thieves, which is medium armor. Rangers are almost unanimously accepted as very strong in up to15 man teams. Simply because their utilities are much less effective above that limit. Engineers, while demanding a great deal of skill, are probably the single most devastating profession in the game if played correctly, as it applies raw DPS and conditions, all in a matter of seconds.

Any team consisting of only warriors or heavies are doomed to be kited and killed in less then 20 seconds by any half competent 3-5 man group.

I can accept biased ranger hate, no problems, apparently nobody knows what rangers can or cannot do, they just assume it sucks. I’m fine with that.
But when you carry your fanboy’ism so far, that you suggest to not bring any medium armor professions, no eles, necros or mesmers, then you clearly got zero understanding of what it means to be roaming/havoc.

Roaming/Havoc will forever be dominated by the professions with the most access to conditions, evades, regen and mobility. Which a warrior does have, however the weapon design of the warrior doesn’t make it as effective as other the professions. The guardian is slow, strip away the stability and swiftness, and it dies in the blink of an eye.

Shadowlord, check out www.fort-aspenwood.com if you haven’t already.

Prysin.8542:

The moment you said “Avoid medium armor classes” you wrote yourself into history as the least knowledgeable roamer ever.

This person is asking about a small 5-10 man Havok squad not what class he should roam with. Most of the medium armor classes make fine roamers but they lack the better group dynamics for small team. They can work, but if you are trying to build an optimal Havok squad a team needs to plan for fighting 2x or more their numbers on a consistent basis.

The formulation I gave him is proven and used by most Havok squads I have run with.

I have good success with this compo lately (Group 5):

2 Guardian (Shout heal with Staff & GS)
1 Guardian (DPS)
1 Warrior (Shout heal immobilze)
1 DPS (AoE like Necro, Engi, Ele)

Here couple of our video to prove and feel free to ask any question for your team compo:

@Chaba Yea, it’s been awhile since I’ve been to that website on a consistent basis. A few of my guild members created that site way back when I’ll have to check it out today.

@Rendolphe Very nice vids! Is it possible for you to share or inbox me the Guardian builds you guys use?

Shadowlord,

You might just want to check SIC out and join us. You should know Drtoph, no? He’s one of us.

What up Shadowlord Pain, its drtoph here. I was one of kitten reds lieutenants before you guys headed off to SoS. I’m currently the GL of SIC. Come hang out with us anytime you want to havoc. We run 5-10 people in WvW when we are out there. Have a ton of theory crafting on ele and guardian. Hop in our channel on TS or send me a pm anytime you want to chat builds.

Drtoph! Long time no see bro! How have you been? GL huh? All grown up now I see. Haha! I’m going to have to run with you very soon. Send me a guild invite and we can catch up.

Prysin.8542:

Shadowlord Pain.8946:

Thanks for the input! Another question. Why is rank 230 needed to compete effectively? Also, in a 10-man group, what’s a good number of elementalists or necros to bring? 1 per 5?

230 is needed for full guard leech and might bonus. Top two traitlines in the WvW trait window.

Aye. Please do not put any points in other trait lines because the next WXP reset has not be announced yet although many thought it would be around mid December 2013.

You will need to spend points first (the first 130 rank points in)

Defense against guards trait

Then the next 130 rank points in Guard killer

I’ll leave this here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnfSseF33YU

Shadowlord Pain.8946:

Hello everyone! I’m coming off of a 6 month break from GW2 and have some questions. I love WvW and I’m looking to run a havoc squad on my server FA. What group make-up have you all found successful for 5-10 man groups? I play a staff elementalist at the moment and have a Guardian as my alt. I’m really looking to flip camps, take towers when possible and give support for the larger groups taking keeps. Any feedback is appreciated.

Stack as many Warriors as possible. Fill remaining slots with Guardians. Add an Elementalist. Voila, you’re done.

Shu.6981:

I’ll leave this here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnfSseF33YU

Aura sharing got gutted with that range nerf. We used to run one in our 5 man because it was powerful but now a group has to almost be touching the ele to gets its auras. What ANet has done to the D/D elementalist over the last year is almost criminal. Sure they once were OP but now they are a borderline skirmish class in all but the most exceptional hands.