Guild Wars 2

Question: Do you ever hear PvP players gripe about population imbalances?

They usually complain about skill or lack thereof… once in a while they forum blast because of of a bug or some AFK issue and it addressed by ANET – thank you for that.

Question: do you ever hear PvE players grip about insufficient numbers for world or local events…

oh yea, but that is solved by joining a PvE guild with times and focus on events or doing what anet did… making Mega Servers. – so thank you for that too.

Question: Do you hear WvW players complain about grossly imbalanced odds on all four maps?

Yes. All the time. So how are you fixing it? 1) Blocking servers from recruiting because they are full thus no WvW guild recruiting. You server merg accounted for server populations and ignored wvw populations… are you kidding?

SOLUTION: think you can do what you did in pvp and pve (e.g. Queues or mega mergers) to wvw? I think so but you won’t. Instead you want to create a handicap scoring fix where points may look closer, buffs may seem like a mediocre player can 1v4, but it never addresses the issue most player on these forums are talking about.
- when you do come on to play and its 1:4 odds near persistently,
- server xfer is impossibly pricey and/or impossible because of full status
- etc, etc.

C’mon, we can surely do better, no?

Still can’t decide on this.

* I have no idea what other alternative solutions could be done instead, which will not happen if I vote Yes.
* I do think server Linking could be a nice technology and could be used to accomplish some good things.
* But personally I hate the current iteration, and would rather go back to old 8 tiers, but that is not a good long term solution.

Sorry, I have no idea how to vote on this. I think I’ll go and just click "count my vote".

Way I see it is, if you like the idea of server links then vote yes, if you have other avenues you think they should explore then vote no.

This is a simple yes or no of whether or not you want them to explore this avenue for population grouping.

If you vote no it’s not like it’s a closed and done issue in regards to population balance. It’s always going to be issue, they know this, perhaps they will come up with other avenues to explore other than hard merges.

Read Tyler’s post again.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

What happens if World Linking is voted out?

• We’d unlink worlds at the next reset, and we’d either do another partial Glicko reset, or restore pre-link values. Consider this an immediate return to the old system, with similiar to original populations on each world, excepting of course the players/guilds who have transfered to new worlds while World Linking was active.

• The next time we poll players asking which feature we should prioritize, we’d include population balance improvements as an option. This prioritization poll likely wouldn’t happen until we complete at least a significant part of the Scoring changes that have already been voted on. (Time-slice scoring/Skirmishes)

• If population improvements won that poll, then we’d poll again to ask what type of population balance feature you want to see worked on, including the amount of time each of those features would take. World Merging might be pretty quick to implement (though less reversible if the community later decided they didn’t want it), but most other solutions are likely to take a very long time, and it may be that when completed, the new population still won’t be able to get 75% of the community to approve it.

The only other hitch now is they are already working on the scoring changes(which is expected to take a while), so any other population balance avenues won’t be worked on until that is done.

I honestly feel they need to fix the Core Base Map Mechanic.

The Fixed 3 Way Fight Model needs to be replaced by a new Fight Model that CAN:

1) Reduce the direct impact of Server stacking to Match-Ups
2) Allow friends & family to play together from many different Worlds
3) Allow Off-peak capping, but let players to work out a solution themselves

Resources are being used up to orchestrate complex solutions to re-align everything that stems from a crooked foundation.

Fix the Core Base Map Mechanic & Population Balancing & Scoring will align itself naturally without having to do complex things…imho

I’d advise folks to Vote No.

World Linking should be removed from Guild Wars 2.

After this Poll Closes…ANet…please:

1) Do Not Sink more resources into Population Balance or Scoring Band-aids

2) Replace the Fixed 3 Way Fight Model that limits the WvW Game Mode

If you don’t pick my proposed solution…come up with a New Core Base Map Mechanic that should already address the 3 Chronic problems above.

If it’s decided that Players want World Linking as a Permanent Feature…then the WvW Community deserves what they ask for in the Long Term.

ANet …I’ll have to say this…you should not have asked an addict…how much do they want…and then fully trust them not to overdose.

Just realized this…

Actually…ANet…you have great faith in your Players to make the right decision concerning the Long Term Future health & wellbeing of our WvW Game Mode.

I can only hope that the Majority of Players will Guide us correctly…though I’m not very confident that some will choose the Short Term self benefits & sacrifice the Long Term Community.

(Anyway…Thanks for trusting us…even though some of us don’t deserve it)…imho

Peace,
Diku

Possible Full Solution – Google Search – Reboot Base Map Mechanic

Xenesis.6389:

The only other hitch now is they are already working on the scoring changes(which is expected to take a while), so any other population balance avenues won’t be worked on until that is done.

Yet they’ve supposedly been working hard on WvW changes for well over 18 months now. One can only assume most of that development has been thrown out.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

What happens if World Linking is voted out?

• We’d unlink worlds at the next reset, and we’d either do another partial Glicko reset, or restore pre-link values. Consider this an immediate return to the old system, with similiar to original populations on each world, excepting of course the players/guilds who have transfered to new worlds while World Linking was active.

• The next time we poll players asking which feature we should prioritize, we’d include population balance improvements as an option. This prioritization poll likely wouldn’t happen until we complete at least a significant part of the Scoring changes that have already been voted on. (Time-slice scoring/Skirmishes)

• If population improvements won that poll, then we’d poll again to ask what type of population balance feature you want to see worked on, including the amount of time each of those features would take. World Merging might be pretty quick to implement (though less reversible if the community later decided they didn’t want it), but most other solutions are likely to take a very long time, and it may be that when completed, the new population still won’t be able to get 75% of the community to approve it.

But do you understand our disappointment with the ambiguity of the poll? I mean, all it would take is for some underpaid linguistics nerd (or even someone with some objective common sense) to look things over and look for ambiguity. For the next poll: what are we voting for? What would we sacrifice for voting for/against that? Sure, not everyone cares, but I’d really like to be informed so that I know my vote is for what I really want.

I voted yes cause t7 – 8 were in horrible shape & it should never go back to that. the system still needs fixed up. I’d like to see the server links changed more often to avoid stale match ups. I’d like 1 more tier added, blob wars is gonna get old fast. I’d like to see server specific armors that can be bought to sport the server I’m on. Over all this is much better than the way it was.

Knob.6835:

I voted yes cause t7 – 8 were in horrible shape & it should never go back to that. the system still needs fixed up. I’d like to see the server links changed more often to avoid stale match ups. I’d like 1 more tier added, blob wars is gonna get old fast. I’d like to see server specific armors that can be bought to sport the server I’m on. Over all this is much better than the way it was.

Did ANet lock you out from Transferring to any World between T1 – T6 before the Linking Beta?

If we end up going back to the old tier system that would be pretty bad for me. My guild is on a full server. So my ability to play with them is pretty kitten ed set on the server linkings. I was even preparing to transfer form server to server to maintain the link.

If we end up going back I am just not going to be able to play with my friends anymore. After weeks of enjoying wvw again for the first time in over a year I am just not sure ill keep bothering with it once I lose that again. And no I’m not gonna ask my guild to transfer down to play with me cause I got locked out. That would be pretty kittened up.

If you need to break the links then do so. Ill understand and probably so will many of the others in my situation. But don’t be surprised when we don’t log on for reset anymore because the people we want to play with wont be there.

Diku.2546:

Knob.6835:

I voted yes cause t7 – 8 were in horrible shape & it should never go back to that. the system still needs fixed up. I’d like to see the server links changed more often to avoid stale match ups. I’d like 1 more tier added, blob wars is gonna get old fast. I’d like to see server specific armors that can be bought to sport the server I’m on. Over all this is much better than the way it was.

Did ANet lock you out from Transferring to any World between kitten before the Linking Beta?

Lol. Absurd. Are you gonna pay for his transfer? You are entitled to your opinion but don’t try to force it upon others.

SkyShroud.2865:

Diku.2546:

Knob.6835:

I voted yes cause t7 – 8 were in horrible shape & it should never go back to that. the system still needs fixed up. I’d like to see the server links changed more often to avoid stale match ups. I’d like 1 more tier added, blob wars is gonna get old fast. I’d like to see server specific armors that can be bought to sport the server I’m on. Over all this is much better than the way it was.

Did ANet lock you out from Transferring to any World between T1 – T6 before the Linking Beta?

Lol. Absurd. Are you gonna pay for his transfer? You are entitled to your opinion but don’t try to force it upon others.

No I don’t need to pay for his/her transfer…World Linking is currently doing it for Free.

Let’s agree…everyone is entitled to their opinion.

If my question above is forcing an opinion on others…I’ll have to apologize.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Scoring changes that have already been voted on. (Time-slice scoring/Skirmishes)

• If population improvements won that poll, then we’d poll again to ask what type of population balance feature you want to see worked on.

Thanks again Tyler for checking this post on a weekend. Just wondering however, can there be more elaboration/detailing exactly how time-slice scoring/skirmishes + population balance improvement features will work? And will these mechanics impact, or become impacted by server merges we decide upon now? From my understanding, one element (server merging) seems to be a technical feature/function that only impacts pop numbers, while the others (such as scoring time-slice) are game play mechanics that drives player behavior. Is server merging correlated to how you guys plan to carry out time-slice scoring & pop control in the future? Because in the current WvW gameplay, 100 vs 100 players or 500 vs 500 players from whichever server still results in the same results: blobs & spies. Was this the intended design or will score time-slice alter that in the future? Thanks!

The fact that 18% right now can force their will in 73% of the voting population does not annoy any one? Really?
If it is something as significant as this, i really think that it should pop up ingame when entering the wvw. Hell we have bloody pvp twitch advertisements ingame. Why such a hush hush vote? Yesterday 9pm i lead an DE zerg with 60 guys in TS and no one knew? Do you know how bummed my guys were? I think something like this, which finally brought back life into Servers and that, at least for my guys was often a reason to return should not be such an unkown event.
In a similar matter:
How about linking the patchnotes in the launcher while it updates instead of a semi furry behind….
I am really stunned that the polls are still often unkown in wvw.

Diku.2546:

SkyShroud.2865:

Diku.2546:

Knob.6835:

I voted yes cause t7 – 8 were in horrible shape & it should never go back to that. the system still needs fixed up. I’d like to see the server links changed more often to avoid stale match ups. I’d like 1 more tier added, blob wars is gonna get old fast. I’d like to see server specific armors that can be bought to sport the server I’m on. Over all this is much better than the way it was.

Did ANet lock you out from Transferring to any World between kitten before the Linking Beta?

Lol. Absurd. Are you gonna pay for his transfer? You are entitled to your opinion but don’t try to force it upon others.

No I don’t need to pay for his/her transfer…World Linking is currently doing it for Free.

Let’s agree…everyone is entitled to their opinion.

If my question above is forcing an opinion on others…I’ll have to apologize.

…..

Are you reading your own reply? You are implying that he could transfer before the world link and here you are saying it is free. What?

I love this new framework for decision-making. I wish PvE worked like this…

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

A message from the WvW Team,
The next WvW Poll is up!
https://feedback.guildwars2.com
Please share your thoughts and feedback on the poll in this thread!

Dear McKenna and Tyler,

I have a message to share that answers all our wvw needs!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Suggestion-Living-WvW-updated/first

Please share your thoughts and feedback in that thread!

You’re welcome!

SkyShroud.2865:

Diku.2546:

SkyShroud.2865:

Diku.2546:

Knob.6835:

I voted yes cause t7 – 8 were in horrible shape & it should never go back to that. the system still needs fixed up. I’d like to see the server links changed more often to avoid stale match ups. I’d like 1 more tier added, blob wars is gonna get old fast. I’d like to see server specific armors that can be bought to sport the server I’m on. Over all this is much better than the way it was.

Did ANet lock you out from Transferring to any World between kitten before the Linking Beta?

Lol. Absurd. Are you gonna pay for his transfer? You are entitled to your opinion but don’t try to force it upon others.

No I don’t need to pay for his/her transfer…World Linking is currently doing it for Free.

Let’s agree…everyone is entitled to their opinion.

If my question above is forcing an opinion on others…I’ll have to apologize.

…..

Are you reading your own reply? You are implying that he could transfer before the world link and here you are saying it is free. What?

If I’m able to open eyes to see things in a new light…without directly attacking folks…then that’s a positive in my book.

ANet hopefully takes the feedback & tries to understand what motivtes the WvW Player…for good or bad…Chronic Player Behavior can affect the overall Game Mode.

Let’s agree…everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Once again…if my question & reply is forcing an opinion upon you…I’ll have to apologize.

Result of our discussion:

How many T7 – T8 players have chosen Not to Move Up to Higher Tiers & Why?

Does this have any bearing on current discussions on finding a solution to improving the Long Term health & viability of the WvW Game Mode?

It’s unfortunate that once again something that effects the entire community of players is addressed solely to the population who frequent the forums. This poll, useful as it may be, was introduced on a Sunday (US, Pacific Time) with no notice appearing about its existence until 20 hours later on the twitter feed.

It’s a shame that a company that can put adds for their products in the game “can’t” [won’t] put real information about changing those products in the game.

Sure, folks like me will retweet and do other social media links; but, it’s an indirect, inelegant solution to a simple problem of direct communication.

[Edit to append appreciation.]
I was pleased to find the HUD notification in WvW and receive the in-game mail about the recent poll the day after I made the post above. This is definitely a step in the right direction that I hope will be followed with future efforts to improve the game.

Way to go Anet.

Silberfederling.9302:

The facto that 18% right now can force their will in 73% of the voting population does not another any one? Really?
If it is something as significant as this, i really think that should pop up ingame when entering the wvw. Hell we have bloody pvp twitch advertisements ingame. Why such a hush hush vote? Yesterday 9pm i lead an DE zerg with 60 guys in TS and no one knew? Do you know hove bummed my guys were? I think something like this, which finally brought back life into Servers and that, at least for my guys was offen a reason to return should not be such an unkown event.
In a similar matter:
How about linking the patchnotes in the launcher while it updates instead of a semi furry behind….
I am really stunned that the polls are still often unkown in wvw.

Whether you realize this or not, putting in a poll up as soon as you enter wvw would be an annoyance to some people, we even have people complaining about seeing the spvp twitch links in the loading screen for kitten sakes, a loading screen… where they do nothing but wait anyways.

I’ve been saying this… if you want people to vote then tell them in game, tell your guild, tell your server mates, all it takes is one sentence in map chat to spread the word.

The players who want to be heard, want to be involved, want to be kept informed of things, already come to the forums, whether it’s good or bad. Now if you want those beyond that involved, like the pve’ers making a trip in wvw for achievements, or the casuals that clock in an hour a day, or hop in for dailies, you can inform them.

The poll was even linked in the “other wvw forums” within minutes it came out here, it’s been linked on reddit, the other “official” forums, with a few responses from Tyler there as well. https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4kcqok/world_linking_new_wvw_poll/

Tyler and team have been doing a great job and communications with us, even on the weekend he’s posting. If players want to be heard and be more involved they should visit the forums more often now, that is where the communication between developer and player happens.

We have had like half dozen polls already, if players are not talking about them with friends and guild/server mates then people are not interested in getting involved with the changes.

All it takes is one sentence in map chat to inform people.

vana.5467:

Coverage imbalance is still the biggest problem for me and linking does nothing to fix that.

This. I agree 150%.

As an avid WvWer from GoM, linked to SoS, the World Linking has been nice for meeting new players and having more activity out on the maps. But being forced into a higher tier — especially as a roamer and a roaming guild — has been hell because of the blobbing and the coverage imbalance. When 50 foes respond to 5 allies taking a camp, that steam rolling is just NO fun. In fact, I can’t recall a single week since being linked that we weren’t outnumbered for many many hours. And to be honest, in the months prior to the linking my server was outnumbered quite often any time we dipped into T5 matches anyways. Even in some T6 matches too…..thanks to server migrations.

Thus, I am really torn about this poll. It’s been nice to see more people on the maps, and more activity/things to do/people to play with. And having more to do than just stare at an empty map is appealing. And it’s been nice to not be as massively outnumbered (although still outnumbered).

But at the expense of having to regularly contend with massive blobs, and being nearly constantly outnumbered, and STILL seeing one server completely run away with the score — during whatever hours — because of coverage imbalance. These are NOT enjoyable game play for me.

I am hopeful that the series of scoring changes will boost things in the right direction.

But is the Wold Linking ready for prime-time as it currently stands? I don’t think so.

Xenesis.6389:

Silberfederling.9302:

The facto that 18% right now can force their will in 73% of the voting population does not another any one? Really?
If it is something as significant as this, i really think that should pop up ingame when entering the wvw. Hell we have bloody pvp twitch advertisements ingame. Why such a hush hush vote? Yesterday 9pm i lead an DE zerg with 60 guys in TS and no one knew? Do you know hove bummed my guys were? I think something like this, which finally brought back life into Servers and that, at least for my guys was offen a reason to return should not be such an unkown event.
In a similar matter:
How about linking the patchnotes in the launcher while it updates instead of a semi furry behind….
I am really stunned that the polls are still often unkown in wvw.

Whether you realize this or not, putting in a poll up as soon as you enter wvw would be an annoyance to some people, we even have people complaining about seeing the spvp twitch links in the loading screen for kitten sakes, a loading screen… where they do nothing but wait anyways.

I’ve been saying this… if you want people to vote then tell them in game, tell your guild, tell your server mates, all it takes is one sentence in map chat to spread the word.

The players who want to be heard, want to be involved, want to be kept informed of things, already come to the forums, whether it’s good or bad. Now if you want those beyond that involved, like the pve’ers making a trip in wvw for achievements, or the casuals that clock in an hour a day, or hop in for dailies, you can inform them.

The poll was even linked in the “other wvw forums” within minutes it came out here, it’s been linked on reddit, the other “official” forums, with a few responses from Tyler there as well. https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4kcqok/world_linking_new_wvw_poll/

Tyler and team have been doing a great job and communications with us, even on the weekend he’s posting. If players want to be heard and be more involved they should visit the forums more often now, that is where the communication between developer and player happens.

We have had like half dozen polls already, if players are not talking about them with friends and guild/server mates then people are not interested in getting involved with the changes.

All it takes is one sentence in map chat to inform people.

And then there are people that play the game, are aware of the forum Drama and avoid it the game.
Well should this poll, given to a crowd of forum warriors, actually force the will of the minority on the majority i can guarantee you that the loser tiers will once again loose population.
Giving out advertisements and giving out essential information about a poll that decides whether or not you continue to play the game are worlds apart. By all means defend selected information. The results will speak for themselves.

Silberfederling.9302:

And then there are people that play the game, are aware of the forum Drama and avoid it the game.
Well should this poll, given to a crowd of forum warriors, actually force the will of the minority on the majority i can guarantee you that the loser tiers will once again loose population.
Giving out advertisements and giving out essential information about a poll that decides whether or not you continue to play the game are worlds apart. By all means defend selected information. The results will speak for themselves.

I really don’t care which way this poll goes, or however they want to collect the information, and I’m already on here giving my feedback to the developers, as the forums will always be the main form of interaction with them.

If you want support then go get it in game, like I said all it takes is one sentence in game, or sit there blame the developers for everything, your choice.

P.S Tyler also mentioned in the reddit thread that the poll came out too early.

Hey guys, sorry about the lack of messaging. As many of you have already guessed, the poll did indeed go live a few days earlier than we had planned. There’s a surprising amount of people involved in making polls and poll-related messaging happen. In any case, we’ll make sure that messaging goes out early next week, and leave the poll open longer than usual, to give players plenty of time to vote on this important topic.

This poll should have been divided betwenn NA and EU, because world linking may (or may not) be a good solution for one, but the way ppl want to play wvw and the wvw-community in general are way to different between those two as you can read in most forums.

With the way it is now: no. The matches are way too often the same and solo roaming isn’t even a thing anymore.

There’s a lot of things I like about the world linking but it is just not fun the way it is set up right now. The servers that are teamed up need to change every once in a while. I don’t see what’s wrong with teaming up multiple small servers as well. It’ll increase the population while keeping the blobs away.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

What happens if World Linking is voted out?

• We’d unlink worlds at the next reset, and we’d either do another partial Glicko reset, or restore pre-link values. Consider this an immediate return to the old system, with similiar to original populations on each world, excepting of course the players/guilds who have transfered to new worlds while World Linking was active.

• The next time we poll players asking which feature we should prioritize, we’d include population balance improvements as an option. This prioritization poll likely wouldn’t happen until we complete at least a significant part of the Scoring changes that have already been voted on. (Time-slice scoring/Skirmishes)

• If population improvements won that poll, then we’d poll again to ask what type of population balance feature you want to see worked on, including the amount of time each of those features would take. World Merging might be pretty quick to implement (though less reversible if the community later decided they didn’t want it), but most other solutions are likely to take a very long time, and it may be that when completed, the new population still won’t be able to get 75% of the community to approve it.

75% seems like a very high requirement. I’d bet you’d have a hard time getting 75% of the community to agree on anything. Especially with a third choice of “I don’t care”.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

The in-game mail notification should be active now.

How it works:
The mail is sent once upon WvW rankup (minimum rank 10), each time a new poll is activated. The mail includes a link to the poll website.

That is great news!

Johje Holan.4607:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

What happens if World Linking is voted out?

• We’d unlink worlds at the next reset, and we’d either do another partial Glicko reset, or restore pre-link values. Consider this an immediate return to the old system, with similiar to original populations on each world, excepting of course the players/guilds who have transfered to new worlds while World Linking was active.

• The next time we poll players asking which feature we should prioritize, we’d include population balance improvements as an option. This prioritization poll likely wouldn’t happen until we complete at least a significant part of the Scoring changes that have already been voted on. (Time-slice scoring/Skirmishes)

• If population improvements won that poll, then we’d poll again to ask what type of population balance feature you want to see worked on, including the amount of time each of those features would take. World Merging might be pretty quick to implement (though less reversible if the community later decided they didn’t want it), but most other solutions are likely to take a very long time, and it may be that when completed, the new population still won’t be able to get 75% of the community to approve it.

75% seems like a very high requirement. I’d bet you’d have a hard time getting 75% of the community to agree on anything. Especially with a third choice of “I don’t care”.

now that you mention it – ‘I don’t care’ is essentially a No since it counts against the Yes percent…..

If the vote is to be a “Yes” I hope more research can go into what servers team up. It is problematic just based on rank.
For example, I’m on the DH server. Previous to the server teams we were always outnumbered by other servers such as HoD, SF, Ebay, CD etc etc; however, always remained competitive, and with great commanders won more often than not.
So with wins despite being outnumbered, we team up with another server, who like DH does not have a large population of WvW players (FC), while the servers that already outnumbered us are now server teams, that just created a larger deficit of players.
So in the end, if the vote is yes, server population trends on WvW should be considered over server rank. Furthermore, the server teams should be updated each reset, rather than the current trend of the same teaming each time. Being outnumbered 5 to 1 no matter the map just kills it. Win or lose, a good battle will keep people interested.

thoughts from a player LOW tier server (Fissure Of Woe):

INTERESTING those 3-4 weeks in the linking – with Gunnars Hold -

good things:
have people to do something at any time.

not so good things:
more casuals that do wvw
more zergs vs zergs
(that on tier 8-9 never happened – by the way ZERG is generally 40-50++ people)

i happily say no.
it wont balance population and wont solve this issue.

Anet posted that there was an increase of people playing Wvw?
i say mainly for the reward track….

(was more active on Fow doing stuff than in this linking)

regards.

So, this is what is wrong with democracy.

The majority should never, ever be allowed to decide what happens to a minority! Do I really need to bring up historical examples of why this is bad?

I know it’s just a silly game, but this is honestly the worst thing that has happened to WvW ever and is totally ruining my enjoyment of the mode, and tier 8 players are quitting in droves because of linking – our guilds are dying. ANet, your solution to “fix” the population is to make people leave and to ruin friendships and communities?! Do better!

Please, please, please, do not even think of keeping your free recruiting for tier 1 and 2 going. Of course they are all going to vote to keep linking; they need blobs to function and you are making them not have to pay for them anymore. Of course they are going to outvote us because they outnumber us lower tier players; they’ve done that from the start!

I can’t even express how disappointed I am with this beta and this result. Being a low tier WvW player and seeing the very real possibility of world linking being a permanent thing, I am distraught and disheartened by the loss of my community. It won’t survive. There is nothing positive about linking for the “subworld” that is linked, and we have no reason to care about WvW or PPT or results or anything anymore. Goodbye, ET. Goodbye, WvW. Hello, EotM, I guess…

funghetto.1584:

thoughts from a player LOW tier server (Fissure Of Woe):

INTERESTING those 3-4 weeks in the linking – with Gunnars Hold -

good things:
have people to do something at any time.

not so good things:
more casuals that do wvw
more zergs vs zergs
(that on tier 8-9 never happened – by the way ZERG is generally 40-50++ people)

i happily say no.
it wont balance population and wont solve this issue.

Anet posted that there was an increase of people playing Wvw?
i say mainly for the reward track….

(was more active on Fow doing stuff than in this linking)

regards.

So correct me if I’m wrong…

You like world vs world vs world and are happy there are people playing, but you are unhappy that casuals play and there is mass warfare going on so you voted no?

If your answer is yes, then you should go to spvp because it’s not sensible to think these huge maps should be about a handful of players playing. Honestly, go find a team and 5v5…

I’m not trying to be disrespectful, but this type of mentality makes zero sense. These zones were created for mass warfare and some like you are voting no because more players are playing and zergs are present in a maps designed for zergs first and foremost…

Again, hang out in spvp because that’s designed for small scale fights.

Swagger.1459, i will try explaining things again.

that post is MY opinion, not majority.

as i said in other threads of merging-linking- call it however u like. im from FOW.
then Anet can decide to put me in Piken – gandara – rof or wherever. and I can decide if to play more or not- correct until here?

its INTERESTING this linking. AS fow player, never saw fights 30+ vs 30+. cute, interesting, but i dont like them, ok?

so, seeing i dont like them much, i say no to linking.

and as i said before, linking-merging 2-3-4-5 servers together WONT FIX THE BALANCE POPULATION ISSUE.

Depraved Ambience.7942:

So, this is what is wrong with democracy.

The majority should never, ever be allowed to decide what happens to a minority! Do I really need to bring up historical examples of why this is bad?

I know it’s just a silly game, but this is honestly the worst thing that has happened to WvW ever and is totally ruining my enjoyment of the mode, and tier 8 players are quitting in droves because of linking – our guilds are dying. ANet, your solution to “fix” the population is to make people leave and to ruin friendships and communities?! Do better!

Please, please, please, do not even think of keeping your free recruiting for tier 1 and 2 going. Of course they are all going to vote to keep linking; they need blobs to function and you are making them not have to pay for them anymore. Of course they are going to outvote us because they outnumber us lower tier players; they’ve done that from the start!

I can’t even express how disappointed I am with this beta and this result. Being a low tier WvW player and seeing the very real possibility of world linking being a permanent thing, I am distraught and disheartened by the loss of my community. It won’t survive. There is nothing positive about linking for the “subworld” that is linked, and we have no reason to care about WvW or PPT or results or anything anymore. Goodbye, ET. Goodbye, WvW. Hello, EotM, I guess…

Were there really droves of people in T8? Serious question because you always hear how dead low tier servers are. And there were continuous complaints about population issues and balance.

And then when they link servers up we’ve got people from low tier servers coming on here saying, “we loved it in a low tier”.

I have always wondered: Perhaps it wasn’t the low tier people complaining. Perhaps it was the mid tier people complaining. Because in mid tiers you can get massive population imbalance. And in mid tier the thinking was that if you didn’t have big numbers of people playing then it was “dead”.

Also perhaps the perception that a server was “dead” was more related to the relative population of other servers they are playing against. “Dead” did not mean “low pop”, it meant “low pop relative to our opponents”.

TLDR; Perhaps the population complaints have nothing to do with total population. But the complaints were about relative population.

• I think the server combining did help the mid-tier servers achieve better relative population.
• But it also may have fixed something that wasn’t broken in the lower tiers (meaning T7-T9)

funghetto.1584:

Swagger.1459, i will try explaining things again.

that post is MY opinion, not majority.

as i said in other threads of merging-linking- call it however u like. im from FOW.
then Anet can decide to put me in Piken – gandara – rof or wherever. and I can decide if to play more or not- correct until here?

its INTERESTING this linking. AS fow player, never saw fights 30+ vs 30+. cute, interesting, but i dont like them, ok?

so, seeing i dont like them much, i say no to linking.

and as i said before, linking-merging 2-3-4-5 servers together WONT FIX THE BALANCE POPULATION ISSUE.

Your opinion now counts for voting… You want to run around a huge map designed for MASS warfare but you don’t want mass warfare… That’s what spvp is for… Makes ZERO sense at all.

Linking is better than what we had before.

Honestly, if some of you like roaming or solo or small scale stuff and can’t handle players in mass playing on a map designed for mass gameplay… Please go to spvp and fill your small scale needs.

Your vote was a selfish vote and hurts the mass pvp community.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World

“World versus World (also known as WvW) is a Player versus Player game mode where players from three different servers, or worlds, battle in the Mists. It features open-world combat on five large maps with up to several hundreds of players per map.”

@swagger – who are you to tell others their vote is wrong? some like 10 man blob versus 10 man blob instead of 30 v 30. The old way (non-linked) offered both options…..

swaggler, which part of this sentence isnt clear?

interesting isnt LIKE IT. neither LOVE IT.

“its INTERESTING this linking. AS fow player, never saw fights 30+ vs 30+. cute, interesting, but i dont like them, ok?”

then, read well what Depraved Ambience.7942 said and i agree on what he said.

“So, this is what is wrong with democracy.
The majority should never, ever be allowed to decide what happens to a minority! Do I really need to bring up historical examples of why this is bad?
I know it’s just a silly game, but this is honestly the worst thing that has happened to WvW ever and is totally ruining my enjoyment of the mode, and tier 8 players are quitting in droves because of linking – our guilds are dying. ANet, your solution to “fix” the population is to make people leave and to ruin friendships and communities?! Do better!”

but HEY! all Gw2 community is voting. so means that 90% of ppl voting are pvers.

the gw2 community can say yes – no. depends on how much time or interest they find in a game mode, right?

im part of the Wvw community of Gw2 (a minority community) and i say NO.

wont change my mind.

“Your vote was a selfish vote and hurts the mass pvp community.”

and ppl voting that they never do wvw??? LOOOOOOOOOL

funghetto.1584:

swaggler, which part of this sentence isnt clear?

interesting isnt LIKE IT. neither LOVE IT.

“its INTERESTING this linking. AS fow player, never saw fights 30+ vs 30+. cute, interesting, but i dont like them, ok?”

then, read well what Depraved Ambience.7942 said and i agree on what he said.

“So, this is what is wrong with democracy.
The majority should never, ever be allowed to decide what happens to a minority! Do I really need to bring up historical examples of why this is bad?
I know it’s just a silly game, but this is honestly the worst thing that has happened to WvW ever and is totally ruining my enjoyment of the mode, and tier 8 players are quitting in droves because of linking – our guilds are dying. ANet, your solution to “fix” the population is to make people leave and to ruin friendships and communities?! Do better!”

but HEY! all Gw2 community is voting. so means that 90% of ppl voting are pvers.

the gw2 community can say yes – no. depends on how much time or interest they find in a game mode, right?

im part of the Wvw community of Gw2 (a minority community) and i say NO.

wont change my mind.

“Your vote was a selfish vote and hurts the mass pvp community.”

and ppl voting that they never do wvw??? LOOOOOOOOOL

WvW is for mass pvp.

You don’t like mass pvp.

“its INTERESTING this linking. AS fow player, never saw fights 30+ vs 30+. cute, interesting, but i dont like them, ok?”

You don’t like mass pvp in a mass pvp zone so you vote no…

I’ll let you think about that…

Edit- Go support this idea if you want a wvw that also has maps designed for solo and small scale stuff…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Suggestion-Living-WvW-updated/first

Liston.9708:

@swagger – who are you to tell others their vote is wrong? some like 10 man blob versus 10 man blob instead of 30 v 30. The old way (non-linked) offered both options…..

And who are the players voting no because they don’t like to see mass pvp happen in a zone primarily designed for mass pvp?

So the future of mass pvp is going to be decided by players who don’t like mass pvp, but want to run in mass pvp zones without mass pvp?

Swagger.1459:

Liston.9708:

@swagger – who are you to tell others their vote is wrong? some like 10 man blob versus 10 man blob instead of 30 v 30. The old way (non-linked) offered both options…..

And who are the players voting no because they don’t like to see mass pvp happen in a zone primarily designed for mass pvp?

So the future of mass pvp is going to be decided by players who don’t like mass pvp, but want to run in mass pvp zones without mass pvp?

That is YOUR idea what wvw is. Others may think it is something else. Difference is, I am not telling you that you are wrong. People can vote based on their own vision of what it should be and let the chips fall where they fall.

I will just leave you this – pretty rude telling others they are wrong though because their opinion is different than yours.

Liston.9708:

Swagger.1459:

Liston.9708:

@swagger – who are you to tell others their vote is wrong? some like 10 man blob versus 10 man blob instead of 30 v 30. The old way (non-linked) offered both options…..

And who are the players voting no because they don’t like to see mass pvp happen in a zone primarily designed for mass pvp?

So the future of mass pvp is going to be decided by players who don’t like mass pvp, but want to run in mass pvp zones without mass pvp?

That is YOUR idea what wvw is. Others may think it is something else. Difference is, I am not telling you that you are wrong. People can vote based on their own vision of what it should be and let the chips fall where they fall.

I will just leave you this – pretty rude telling others they are wrong though because their opinion is different than yours.

The design of wvw was the DEVS idea of creating a space for mass amounts of players…

Spvp is the space for small amounts of players…

funghetto.1584:

thoughts from a player LOW tier server (Fissure Of Woe):

INTERESTING those 3-4 weeks in the linking – with Gunnars Hold -

good things:
have people to do something at any time.

not so good things:
more casuals that do wvw
more zergs vs zergs
(that on tier 8-9 never happened – by the way ZERG is generally 40-50++ people)

i happily say no.
it wont balance population and wont solve this issue.

Anet posted that there was an increase of people playing Wvw?
i say mainly for the reward track….

(was more active on Fow doing stuff than in this linking)

regards.

Bolded…

Funghetto votes no because (s)he doesn’t like casual players and zergs…

So the person who doesn’t like casual players and zergs in wvw is going to help decide the future of pvp zones designed for zergs primarily?

That is a selfish vote for those reasons provided.

That no vote is akin to players voting for spvp to be for 1v1 because they like spvp, but they don’t like 5v5… And these votes count, they are not just “opinions” anymore.

Edit- wvw isn’t designed for me and my 10 friends vs you and your 10 friend vs someone else and their 10 friends… It’s designed to hosts hundreds of players… These are not private pvp server maps, they are mass pvp community maps…

I posted on the other forum about this a little… Here is a few of my thoughts on this vote. I like that Anet considered weighing the vote to 75%… I think that number may be a little lower then it should be, should have considered 80-85% however if in fact the in game email concerning this poll is up, that would mitigate it a little. 40% of the population of WvW will probably be in one of the T1 servers, followed with another 25-30% of players in T2. That leaves 30-35% of players spread out in the other 6 tiers. Since server linking I have seen a much less active guild, many of my members want no part of blob-fest 2016. They are not reading these forums, they are inactive now for the most part in WvW. You conduct a poll after causing those potential “NO” voters from leaving the game or WvW how do you reach out to them? Server linking is exactly what T1 and T2 wanted, they don’t even have to dig into the old war chests to help “move” anyone…. They will all for the most part say YES. T1 commander in TS can remind his blob of 60+ to come do this poll. A person from T7 has only his/her guild and or friends list for the get out to vote campaign. This influx of players has more to do with Alpine coming back, and reward track then any server link.

Here is a simple idea and it fits with original statements from Anet. Anyone in T1 should have a free pass to any server T2-T3 or lower as long as they are in T1. In addition to this, bring back DBL for all Tiers higher then and including T4. Much bigger map for a much larger population. This also provides motive for those people in T1 with a free pass to go south of T4. This alone would make things a lot more fluid and might help prevent the stacking. Of course you may have the T4 server that will intentionally loose matches to try to always stay on top of T5, but thats a risk I think worth taking.

Please do not turn this into another EotM. Keep trying to break the zerg, encourage the command and control feature to WvW. Its not all about fights, its about taking control of the field including structures. No matter what happens, please do not merge everyone into just three worlds, thats the worst idea anyone can have on this.

Swagger.1459:

Bolded…

Funghetto votes no because (s)he doesn’t like casual players and zergs…

So the person who doesn’t like casual players and zergs in wvw is going to help decide the future of pvp zones designed for zergs primarily?

That is a selfish vote for those reasons provided.

That no vote is akin to players voting for spvp to be for 1v1 because they like spvp, but they don’t like 5v5… And these votes count, they are not just “opinions” anymore.

Edit- wvw isn’t designed for me and my 10 friends vs you and your 10 friend vs someone else and their 10 friends… It’s designed to hosts hundreds of players… These are not private pvp server maps, they are mass pvp community maps…

WvW was less about massive zergs and massive PvP then it was a command and control game. It was designed in much the same image as RvR in much older games. Large scale fights are a desired side effect however it was not supposed to be a scaled up PvP match. When you start exceeding a party group for size it becomes less and less about skill and more of just a numbers game. So someone voting NO and sticking with original intent is not a bad thing, its just a difference of opinion. Unfortunately going for the last few years with no real focus on WvW has allowed this illusion that it is all about massive zergs and nothing should matter other then bags and fights. Original idea was you and your group of 10, along with a few other groups of 10 could spread out and try to take a map, coming together for a few random large fights and going about there own way on the map when they where done. Unfortunately there are no groups of 10 anymore.

Mistress Collisto.1546:

Swagger.1459:

Bolded…

Funghetto votes no because (s)he doesn’t like casual players and zergs…

So the person who doesn’t like casual players and zergs in wvw is going to help decide the future of pvp zones designed for zergs primarily?

That is a selfish vote for those reasons provided.

That no vote is akin to players voting for spvp to be for 1v1 because they like spvp, but they don’t like 5v5… And these votes count, they are not just “opinions” anymore.

Edit- wvw isn’t designed for me and my 10 friends vs you and your 10 friend vs someone else and their 10 friends… It’s designed to hosts hundreds of players… These are not private pvp server maps, they are mass pvp community maps…

WvW was less about massive zergs and massive PvP then it was a command and control game. It was designed in much the same image as RvR in much older games. Large scale fights are a desired side effect however it was not supposed to be a scaled up PvP much. When you start exceeding a party group for size it becomes less and less about skill and more of just a numbers game. So someone voting NO and sticking with original intent is not a bad thing, its just a difference of opinion. Unfortunately going for the last few years with no real focus on WvW has allowed this illusion that it is all about massive zergs and nothing should matter other then bags and fights. Original idea was you and your group of 10, along with a few other groups of 10 could spread out and try to take a map, coming together for a few random large fights and going about there own way on the map when they where done. Unfortunately there are no groups of 10 anymore.

Umm the original intent was to create a space for hundreds of players to do mass pvp…

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World

“World versus World (also known as WvW) is a Player versus Player game mode where players from three different servers, or worlds, battle in the Mists. It features open-world combat on five large maps with up to several hundreds of players per map.”

Is this a real debate?

I’m pretty worried that the future of wvw is going to be decided by players who do not even know their own game…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dnOhMeYxhRM

Swagger.1459:

Umm the original intent was to create a space for hundreds of players to do mass pvp…

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World

“World versus World (also known as WvW) is a Player versus Player game mode where players from three different servers, or worlds, battle in the Mists. It features open-world combat on five large maps with up to several hundreds of players per map.”

Is this a real debate?

I’m pretty worried that the future of wvw is going to be decided by players who do not even know their own game…

You do know that the wiki can be edited by any individual with an agenda or there mother right? I could go on there and change that myself and would that then mean what I type in there is the truth? Just cause its on the internet does always mean its fact. If it was nothing more then blobbing, don’t you think the basic scoring mechanic would not have been in place? I’m not talking PPK either For as worried as you are about it, I am also worried, but as you guessed, for the opposing reason, if I wanted nothing more then to blob 24×7 I would go out with the rest of the EotM players. I want the command and control, the strategy back in the game.

Besides, why not go back the 8Tier system, then you get to play the way you want, and I get all the strategy and the play style I want.

Watch the video…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dnOhMeYxhRM

Some of you have me worried here that you don’t even know what wvw was designed for…

Swagger.1459:

Watch the video…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dnOhMeYxhRM

Some of you have me worried here that you don’t even know what wvw was designed for…

Did you even watch it? Objectives? Control? Small group behind enemy lines?…. or are you only hearing Blobbing? This video supports both game play styles we have both been debating. Difference is, I am not promoting Anet force you to play the same way I want to play.

Mistress Collisto.1546:

Swagger.1459:

Watch the video…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dnOhMeYxhRM

Some of you have me worried here that you don’t even know what wvw was designed for…

Did you even watch it? Objectives? Control? Small group behind enemy lines?…. or are you only hearing Blobbing? This video supports both game play styles we have both been debating. Difference is, I am not promoting Anet force you to play the same way I want to play.

I’d suggest you go back and read the conversation so you know what you’re commenting on.

Depraved Ambience.7942:

So, this is what is wrong with democracy.

The majority should never, ever be allowed to decide what happens to a minority! Do I really need to bring up historical examples of why this is bad?

I know it’s just a silly game, but this is honestly the worst thing that has happened to WvW ever and is totally ruining my enjoyment of the mode, and tier 8 players are quitting in droves because of linking – our guilds are dying. ANet, your solution to “fix” the population is to make people leave and to ruin friendships and communities?! Do better!

Please, please, please, do not even think of keeping your free recruiting for tier 1 and 2 going. Of course they are all going to vote to keep linking; they need blobs to function and you are making them not have to pay for them anymore. Of course they are going to outvote us because they outnumber us lower tier players; they’ve done that from the start!

I can’t even express how disappointed I am with this beta and this result. Being a low tier WvW player and seeing the very real possibility of world linking being a permanent thing, I am distraught and disheartened by the loss of my community. It won’t survive. There is nothing positive about linking for the “subworld” that is linked, and we have no reason to care about WvW or PPT or results or anything anymore. Goodbye, ET. Goodbye, WvW. Hello, EotM, I guess…

This, except for the “hello EotM” part. Things are falling to pieces. We’re losing people left and right. I won’t be looking for another guild if you kill the one I’m in. I’ll be looking for another game.

Swagger.1459:

I’d suggest you go back and read the conversation so you know what you’re commenting on.

I know what I am commenting about, do you? Forcing people to play the way you wish they would play will only lead to the inevitable collapse of your way. I choose to stay on a server as we collapsed from T1 all the way to T7. WvW is and has always been more then blobbing, however in kitten the community, the players have changed in so many ways that only encourage “If you are not with us you are a waste to our server” Blobbing has destroyed so many of the game mechanics, including WvW. Easy loot, easy high, no risk, all reward, all about numbers… I would rather play a facebook game then roll around with what your proposing. That is why I choose NO and I hope many more agree with me on that. I am fine on a fairly “dead” server and I will have fun, if you want to just be another number, move to a higher tier. At least without server linking we have a choice.