Guild Wars 2

So after doing nothing but pvp since beta (aside from leveling) I’ve been recently playing WvW for the monthly, etc, and because all everyone does is complain about s/tPvP and talk about how popular WvW is in comparison. I wanted to see this aspect of the game for once.

I honestly can’t figure out what people like about it? The few times I engaged in small scale encounters (1vX or 2vX), everyone was terrible! I’m not trying to be insulting or pretentious, and I expect the upleveled people to be at a gear disadvantage, but the overall general feel of combat was very disorganized and…just weird. It didn’t feel like people were trying, if that’s the best way to explain it.

Other than that it was large groups of people spamming abilities against other large groups of people until one side was dead or ran away. Then you die and have a boring, long, slow walk back to any signs of player activity. If you make it back to a large group of your team, great. Walk around with a large group of your team and repeat above. It feels like WoW’s Wintergrasp but too big and with no vehicles.

Maybe my opinion is skewed by the fact that I’ve only done the Mists primarily, but I honestly can’t see how anyone could like WvW over sPvP. You don’t even really get to explore the combative abilities of your class because:

1. You outnumber the enemy to the point where it doesn’t matter.
2. You’re outnumbered to the point where it doesn’t matter.
3. The combat is, largely, gear dependent.
4. You fight people that aren’t the same level as you.

Am I missing something? Is there some other greater purpose that makes this venue more enjoyable? I’m not making a direct comparison between the two PvP aspects of the game but when one is largely more popular than the other you would expect it to be significantly better, but I just don’t see it.

Server Pride + Less Trash talks :P

Edit: Also gold (but u can make x10 faster gold with CoF part 1 , in 15 min)

Less trash talks? Go to the tier threads in WvW forums…

Compared to any <<compettive>> PvP forums , its kinda better :P

It’s PvP.
It’s more userfriendly.

You don’t feel like you get completely outmatched in most fights, and when that happens, it’s probably because of they were more than you. If some very strong player comes, he’ll also still fall cause of numbers at times.

sPvP is very frustrating to play for not that good players. WvW isn’t.

Wvw isn’t nearly up to daocs level if you just want fights.

And yes the general skill level is terrible. However, zerg busting and seeing how many people you can 1vx is a good time. Being in the 4/5/6 tier range helps a lot, its a decent middle ground to not finding fights and getting zerged all night.

stof.9341:

sPvP is very frustrating to play for not that good players. WvW isn’t.

You’re only ‘not that good’ at the beginning, just like everyone else. I’d rather be bad at sPvP than be good at WvW.

Its strange you posted this on forum where mostly spvp people read, but question is more addressed to wvw people. I spend probably equal amount of time in wvw and spvp, and I can say that spvp is much more enjoyable to me.
But there are many reasons why people prefer wvw over spvp. First thing its much more casual, and there are always more casual players. Another point is, you have goal in wvw and over one week you are trying to help your server gain as many points as possible. Spvp is kind of like short burst of fun. Once you finish match its over, and then you jump on next one. You gain nothing and you have nothing to achieve. (Maybe this will change once leaderboards are up).
Another positive thing of wvw is that you are always teaming up with same people. Usually you will end up playing with same people because those same people love wvw. In spvp unless you run team, you will always get some random people and after match you will forget their names. So I’d say wvw is much more casual and user friendly. There is not much pressure.
Spvp is much more competitive, and for someone who love to compete more then anything this model is better.

WvW = the abomination that is ZvZ (Zerg vs Zerg) and ZvP (Zerg vs Player).

Acelerion.6820:

Wvw isn’t nearly up to daocs level if you just want fights.

And yes the general skill level is terrible. However, zerg busting and seeing how many people you can 1vx is a good time. Being in the 4/5/6 tier range helps a lot, its a decent middle ground to not finding fights and getting zerged all night.

This. If you feel you are good go out and roam solo/duo or small party. I find this much more enjoyable because of variables not found in spvp. Also, i dislike the gear configuration in spvp, entirely too pigeonholed for my taste.

Hanzo.9624:

stof.9341:

sPvP is very frustrating to play for not that good players. WvW isn’t.

You’re only ‘not that good’ at the beginning, just like everyone else. I’d rather be bad at sPvP than be good at WvW.

The beginning matters a lot when it causes players to stop playing altogether.

Also, sPvP is definitively unfun when you do too much solo queueing or hotjoin. Not everyone has a team available for serious tournament play.

An eSport game must be casual friendly or else it won’t have players at all. WvW isn’t eSport but is casual friendly so there are players there.

Nope that’s about it. It let’s bad players think they’re not and gives those from SPvP something to do when they’re bored. It’s fun to be able to play in some form of PvP with my PvE spec and gear, but that’s all. There’s nothing to take seriously in it, because it’s just a bunch of noobs spamming 1 for the most part.

However, occasionally you do find very good players. I’ve had more than a few awesome duels out there. But if you’re wanting to fight strong players, your best bet is to stay in the heart.

stof.9341:

Hanzo.9624:

stof.9341:

sPvP is very frustrating to play for not that good players. WvW isn’t.

You’re only ‘not that good’ at the beginning, just like everyone else. I’d rather be bad at sPvP than be good at WvW.

The beginning matters a lot when it causes players to stop playing altogether.

Also, sPvP is definitively unfun when you do too much solo queueing or hotjoin. Not everyone has a team available for serious tournament play.

An eSport game must be casual friendly or else it won’t have players at all. WvW isn’t eSport but is casual friendly so there are players there.

I don’t do tournies on a serious team. I group with friends when they’re on, solo queue when I have time and no one else is on, and hotjoin every other time. I’m rank 40 and I haven’t gotten bored yet. By your logic new players to Call of Duty would quit immediately if they’re not good enough. Everyone starts somewhere.

The mists seems WAY more casual friendly than WvW if only for that fact that you don’t have to spend countless hours farming gear to be competitive. You can configure your gear and build for free without wasting gold. You don’t have to pay for repairs. You spend more time fighting players in small battles and less time running around looking for something to do.

People who play pvp want to kill players, right? You have to get better at your class in order to kill players which means countless fights, respecs, gear changes etc. All of this is easier to accomplish in the mists. You’re not going to get better at your class in WvW where the numbers are always tilted toward one team, gear and consumables play a huge role, level plays a huge role, etc. Spamming ranged attacks at a zerg isn’t going to teach you the finer nuances of your class.

In sPvP you have the same gear options as everyone else with no consumables. The fights aren’t based on how good your gear is or if you’re up leveled or not. It eliminates that variable and forces you to be a better player on a balanced playing field. How can that be considered less fun PvP for people that truly enjoy PvP?

I’d also like to add that its not all casual care bear land. There are a lot of very good players there who take it seriously.

I run a 5 man in wvw. The reason we don’t spvp is that the conquest game type bores us to tears. Wvw is a wide open death match, and were just here for the fights.

wvw HAS good players ..its just that the opportunities of having good match ups are much lower.On the other hand many builds that are not viable in spvp are great there.
And i love how godly my ele becomes when i equip my fiery gs elite due to amazing mobility ranged damage and no facing requirement of autoattack.
Plus the more complex terrain there makes many encounter fun.like using knockbacks to throw down and kill people from cliffs.
Short story ..it can be really fun and getting max gear in gw2 is a matter of a few days

Hanzo.9624:

I don’t do tournies on a serious team. I group with friends when they’re on, solo queue when I have time and no one else is on, and hotjoin every other time. I’m rank 40 and I haven’t gotten bored yet. By your logic new players to Call of Duty would quit immediately if they’re not good enough. Everyone starts somewhere.

The mists seems WAY more casual friendly than WvW if only for that fact that you don’t have to spend countless hours farming gear to be competitive. You can configure your gear and build for free without wasting gold. You don’t have to pay for repairs. You spend more time fighting players in small battles and less time running around looking for something to do.

People who play pvp want to kill players, right? You have to get better at your class in order to kill players which means countless fights, respecs, gear changes etc. All of this is easier to accomplish in the mists. You’re not going to get better at your class in WvW where the numbers are always tilted toward one team, gear and consumables play a huge role, level plays a huge role, etc. Spamming ranged attacks at a zerg isn’t going to teach you the finer nuances of your class.

In sPvP you have the same gear options as everyone else with no consumables. The fights aren’t based on how good your gear is or if you’re up leveled or not. It eliminates that variable and forces you to be a better player on a balanced playing field. How can that be considered less fun PvP for people that truly enjoy PvP?

But you are talking a lot from your point of view. I was talking from a general/casual point of view.

Call of Duty allows “noobs” to have their fun even against strong players through various means, not the less the fact they don’t put them against fully organized tryhard teams if possible something GW2 doesn’t seem to do. There’s also a lot of tools in the game for them to get their fun, be it blind explosive spam lucky kills down to some win streak power if they can get one.

What fun is there in GW2 sPvP when you aren’t as good as the other players? The odds are that you’ll get some humiliating 0.2s kill from behind by a thief or get to fight 1v1 against some unkillable tanky elem/guardian and be incredibly frustrated because, you cannot even dent their HP.

The frustrating part is the turn off. You aren’t even a tiny bit close to a chance to kill them. It’s not like CoD where you get killed and can say : “well, at least I got him to 20% HP, next time I’ll get him!” Here, you are just baffled by some players that seem for all purposes unkillable for you

WvW doesn’t that problem as much because noobs can just follow some group, tag some targets and get loot bags. Nothing of the like in sPvP.

""""""Call of Duty allows “noobs” to have their fun even against strong players through various means, not the less the fact they don’t put them against fully organized tryhard teams if possible something GW2 doesn’t seem to do. There’s also a lot of tools in the game for them to get their fun, be it blind explosive spam lucky kills down to some win streak power if they can get one.""""""

Hotjoin pvp matches aren’t ‘fully organized try hard’ teams either. It’s mainly new players, rank farmers, or people trying out new builds. They can still get lucky kills without being 1v1 pros. When I first started I was using the default minion build spamming staff marks and still doing just fine.

""""""What fun is there in GW2 sPvP when you aren’t as good as the other players? The odds are that you’ll get some humiliating 0.2s kill from behind by a thief or get to fight 1v1 against some unkillable tanky elem/guardian and be incredibly frustrated because, you cannot even dent their HP."""""

Who expects to start ANY hobby as good as everyone else? You don’t do martial arts ad get frustrated when you don’t start off as a black belt do you? The whole purpose of anything in life regardless of what it is, is progress. Seeing yourself get better. When I first started I couldn’t kill mesmers. Now they’re not a problem because I played, learned their tactics and I’m not surprised by them anymore. If I got instantly killed by a thief I looked at my build, looked at their tactics, figured out what I did wrong. This is common sense. If I can’t kill a boon stacking bunker, I use boon stripping.

All I’m gathering is “nothing is fun unless you’re instantly pro from day 1 so no one tries”. I’m casual too. I work full time and play for a few hours every night. Which means I don’t have nor want to devote all my play time to farming gear via pve means just to be remotely competitive in WvW pvp, especially when I’d need entirely different sets of gear for every build I play. I can just be equally geared in the mists. I want to get better at the class I play. This is why, from a casual perspective, I feel like sPvP is more gained vs time spent for the casual player over WvW. Getting better IS the fun part of sPvP, that IS the reward.

Hot joins are full of thieves. 50% of the players in hot joins each time I go there are thieves. See remark about “dead in 0.2s”.

Casuals do not expect to be pro after picking up the game for 5 minutes. Casuals expect to have fun playing the game. This is achieved usually by not making them play against pros first.

As for your remark about gear grind, you’d be amazed how many players go to WvW with greens and yellows. And they don’t complain. Because casuals don’t really care about gear and it doesn’t matter THAT much in WvW either so they are happy.

And I never said “no one tries”. Try to think less in black and white and stop trying to pass your own personal story/experience/anecdote as some kind of rule. Besides the simple fact that “you looked at your build, looked at their tactics” etc… makes you largely above the average player.

Acelerion.6820:

I’d also like to add that its not all casual care bear land. There are a lot of very good players there who take it seriously.

I run a 5 man in wvw. The reason we don’t spvp is that the conquest game type bores us to tears. Wvw is a wide open death match, and were just here for the fights.

Pretty much this. i also run solo/small man roam.( i don’t care and the pvdoor server ranking system, worst idea ever put into a mmo). i myself had no intentions of wvwing since Anet claimed a competitive E-sport pvp atmosphere and + i had enough of open field pvp from warhammer.

For me Tpvp failed on all fronts from conquest being the main focus map to not having a proper leader board ect… If Tpvp was ever actually fixed/features are added that are needed id come back to it if there is anything left of the already dwindling player base it has left.

As fun as it is to take advantages of class imbalances soloing and 5vXing the zergs in wv3 there isn’t any better type of competitive play then group v group in an mmo. wtb 5v5 tdm

Mayhem.1935:

Acelerion.6820:

Wvw isn’t nearly up to daocs level if you just want fights.

And yes the general skill level is terrible. However, zerg busting and seeing how many people you can 1vx is a good time. Being in the 4/5/6 tier range helps a lot, its a decent middle ground to not finding fights and getting zerged all night.

This. If you feel you are good go out and roam solo/duo or small party. I find this much more enjoyable because of variables not found in spvp. Also, i dislike the gear configuration in spvp, entirely too pigeonholed for my taste.

This. WVW is much more unpredictable, freeform, and there’s a lot more ways to participate. You are wrong about the skill levels though, I just don’t think you’ve spent much time in WW yet. The general skill level in hotjoin is pretty kitten bad as well.

There are great 1v1s, 1v2s, 1vX, 5v5s to be had in WVW.

Guys, where do you find all these 1v1/1vs2 fights in WvW? I like to play solo and I rolled a guardian and a thief to lev 80. I did a bit of sPvP (rank 16 at the moment) and since a couple of weeks I started WvW, but the only things that I meet out there is ZERG. I walk for 15 minutes (especially when I use the Guardian) and then boom… dead…

I play on blacktide server.

Only a couple of time I found small fight, becouse I decided to just sit near a skill point challenge and wait for foes…

The time/good-fight ratio is not worth for me if I have to judge by what I have seen so far.

And that’s sad becouse I hate the fact that you dont have your “real” gear in sPvP and I really expected something good from WvW.

I agree, I tried it multiple times and I can’t even be bothered to level up my character although WvW requires it.

I fail to see the strategy and fun behind these large groupfights. Dying to cleave or AOE, because you get rolled by a lagging, perma booned mob that greatly outnumbers your own in an empty sandbox world…
I don’t want to spam one button for hours to destroy a gate, even with the expensive, but wildly uninteresting sieges it takes so long.

It’d be interesting if there were multiple ways to enter a point, but the map just suffers from stale design. Nothing but large cliffs and empty fields for the most part.

From my experience, it’s exactly the opposite of what Spvp offers: leveled footing on all characters, multiple buildpaths (sort of… not exclusively long range/aoe), a dynamic playingfield, clear objectives, fast paced and nearly none-stop action (instead of running for ages), …
No clue why you’d prefer WvW over Spvp, except for the guilt of not playing with the character you leveled up.

Your WvW experience is going to be dictated by what tier your server is in. The competitive players and guilds have mostly congregated in the top 4-5 servers to fight each other, leaving the lower tiers filled with people who either don’t want to be competitive or don’t know how the game works.

Hanzo,

I agree with you.

I tried to like WvWvW, but all I found was huge impersonal zergs where you can’t really tell if you are having any kind of real effect.

I play tier 1 which is basically “zerg land tier” and I can still find 1v1s and 1vXs NP.

WvW is the aspect of this game I like most. It’s not just standing in circles harder than the other guys (although I actually enjoy that in games like TF2, in which I find combat more engaging and a greater number of tactics viable) – it’s the total conquest of another server. It’s not only ZergvZerg and PvDoor, either – you can find plenty of small battles and even 1v1s if you know where to look. (Namely supply camps and caravans.)

Have you ever had a 40-man zerg chase you around a corner and seen them obliterated/flee in terror thanks to the mass of siege weaponry you had lying in wait?

Have you ever held off a force of twenty with only a quarter that number by placing hidden catapults on a distant cliff-side, and seen one of your own commanders arrive to slaughter them just before your position is overwhelmed?

Have you ever been a part of a mere group of six that managed to cause so much havoc that twice that of the main enemy force broke off simply to eliminate you?

Have you ever had a scout report to your commander that an enemy force was headed their way, and been given the order to lie in wait for them? Seen their fear as they beheld your mighty force drop down from the mountainside to engage them in the camp they were attempting to take?

Have you ever stood high upon one of Stonemist’s turrets, looked toward the stormy horizon, and seen a massive army flanked by siege golems marching forth? Then looked to the next gate, and beheld the advance of another enemy’s forces? Baited what enemies you could into fighting one-another, while others worked furiously to keep them at bay? Witnessed the chaos of all three armies in the center of Stonemist, fighting for control?

WvW offers far more possibilities than SPvP, and also offers an environment in which new players can PvP without fear of impacting their team’s success due to their poor performance. I do wish it offered equalized gear like SPvP, though.

World vs World IS conquest, The goal is the exact same.
Stand on a circle to claim it as yours and collect points from it. Collect more than your opponents. In WvW they put inherit protection around the circle, in the forms of a gate and some npcs.

Which is fine in itself.
If people were playing WvW just to win, you would see less 1v1’s because 1v1’s are “not” important to WvW. Since individuals matter less in WvW you’ll see all sorts of player rangers though and the depth that the format has fall to the wayside.

ensoriki.5789:

World vs World IS conquest, The goal is the exact same.
Stand on a circle to claim it as yours and collect points from it. Collect more than your opponents. In WvW they put inherit protection around the circle, in the forms of a gate and some npcs.

Which is fine in itself.
If people were playing WvW just to win, you would see less 1v1’s because 1v1’s are “not” important to WvW. Since individuals matter less in WvW you’ll see all sorts of player rangers though and the depth that the format has fall to the wayside.

Less than 1% of your time in WvW will be spent contesting a circle. The rest is map control, logistics and siege.

Solo roamers are an important part of disrupting enemy strategy. Solo/small unit players can flip a camp, kill stragglers/reinforcements, kill supply yaks/runners, contest waypoints, distract zergs and more.

The main force does the heavy lifting of taking hard points and controlling the battle lines, but there’s room for all play styles to be useful.

WvWvW is very fun if you take a small team of friends and roam in small groups looking to gank/take camps while hanging out. Now in order to do this succesffuly your team does need to be 80 and reasonably well geared. Otherwise you will need to zerg ride.
Gear can make a big difference in WvWvW. Zerg riding gets dull fast, but small group ganking can be quite fun.

Caffynated.5713:

ensoriki.5789:

World vs World IS conquest, The goal is the exact same.
Stand on a circle to claim it as yours and collect points from it. Collect more than your opponents. In WvW they put inherit protection around the circle, in the forms of a gate and some npcs.

Which is fine in itself.
If people were playing WvW just to win, you would see less 1v1’s because 1v1’s are “not” important to WvW. Since individuals matter less in WvW you’ll see all sorts of player rangers though and the depth that the format has fall to the wayside.

Less than 1% of your time in WvW will be spent contesting a circle. The rest is map control, logistics and siege.
Much of your time is spent assaulting it, just because it’s not visible doesn’t change the ideaology. Little time is spent contesting a circle because you’ve already killed any thing that would prolong a contest. In fact they don’t even appear until every npc is dead. You still assault a point. The main difference between WvW and Spvp objective wise (ignoring gear/pve) is scaling. WvW puts it on a larger scale. This also happens to diminish the significance of individuals which is my point. Or to point it differently if we made every circle visible from the start it be a clearer image that it’s still a point assault/defend format.

Solo roamers are an important part of disrupting enemy strategy. Solo/small unit players can flip a camp, kill stragglers/reinforcements, kill supply yaks/runners, contest waypoints, distract zergs and more.
Where does small unit come into 1v1 talk? 1v1 is not a significant portion of WvW server success. The end-game of WvW is simply to get more points than the rest and lock-down the map. You’re not really saying at all, how 1v1’s are important to WvW success. They generally are not. 1v1 typically it’s 1+ a bunch of npc’s defending, vs 1 other person. Which earnestly allows time if players were communicating to have another player come in to assist on either side depending on distance to the nearest WP. Especially given the defensive boost of npc assist similar to defending Ruins with Shark assist. 1 person is not a distraction a zerg unless they all have ADHD, but that goes to the point of individuals being lost in WvW from the scaling.
Can you solo roam sure. Is 1v1 important? Not really. Take Spvp, scale it for 300 or so players. WvW, the importance of a 1v1 diminishes even more as the numbers rise, and if (but not happening) the entire team was really communicating. It would worsen. WvW isn’t a 1v1 format…
Which somewhat goes to the OP’s point of being outnumbered on either side. Same happens here as well. There just isn’t a gear requirement

There are a few reasons that WvW is…more popular

Makeshift leaderboards in the forms of world rankings. Trash talking and waving your I’m better than you flag.

The stuff you do in PvE makes you better and can be use to show off to enemy players. Who wouldn’t want to go into WvW and kill people while flaunting around your Arah armor or fractal weapons.

Not entirely based on player skill. Numbers are a big thing. Sucky players who are bad at the game can run with a zerg of 20+, killing groups of five and taking a tower. That player who gets dominated by people in spvp now feels that he is good because he took that tower, he contributed and got badges of honors/rewards for taking that tower.

More guild support. Seeing a guild teaming up together in a 20+ zerg defending a place that they’ve claimed as their own feels a lot better than playing one round turnys. If they ever add in GvG, sPvP would get a lot more popular.

Some classes have it a lot easier. Being a mesmer, thief, or ele is a lot easier in WvW because of the way their classes are setup. I’ve seen many “good” WvW thiefs get stomped in sPvP because they’re easier to predict. They dont have a giant open field to move around stealthed in. They don’t have the luxury of stealthing inside of a tower where players can’t see you, coming out and during your 10k+ burst, then stealthing and running back inside.

Finally it doesn’t feel as grindy. Theres a lot more to do. You can protect a supply camp, attack a supply camp, cut off enemy reinforcements, build ambush sites with siege, troll people as a giant group of thieves, go into the puzzle and have some pure Tdm at the start.

…because people have different opinions.

Are you serious, OP?
You probably question why people like the color green when blue is obviously the best.,

Long story short: ZvZ is a purring meow place not worth the bother because it promotes and rewards one of the worst ‘pvp’ mechanics.

WvW = Large team effort. Individual effort means less.
SPvP = Small team effort. Individual effort means more.

Different modes. It’s no wonder sPVPers don’t like WvW because their individual effort is not admired, and sPvPers have the most inflated egos. (The comments in this thread are proof of that)

Zerg play is not promoted it is players “The lord will not change the condition of a people until they change the condition within them selfs”-muhammad. Its completely counter productive you get less points and have less/no fun. The best part in all this is wvwers are so bad they don’t understand how to beat a zerg, but I bet everyone in this forum does. It’s not really everyone I notice the zerg play from US/ SEA mostly EU seems to have good heads on there shoulders they run around in groups of 15-20 for good fights and good fun.

What I say about WvW in this post relates to the average Bob the Zergling, and takes no regard for players that actually do try hard inside WvW, since there isn’t really all that many of them to begin with.

The reason WvW is vastly more popular than spv kitten imple, and has to do with human mentality. First of all in WvW you don’t truly loose. There is no big window that pops after 15 minutes and tells you that you have lost, and even throws your score in your face to see how much you have failed yourself and your team. Second thing to consider while evaluating WvW is that responsibility is a vague concept to be disregarded there. In a tournament, if you are a close-point mesmer, loosing your close point means you have personally failed and everybody holds you accountable for that (and will feel free to rage on you once you loose). In WvW nobody cares if you just log out, go afk suddenly or something of the sort, because in the end unless you are a commander, your individual worth is nil, and therefore your “duty” and “responsibility” are nil as well. Simply put, you are free to do whatever you desire within the realm of WvW without anybody giving a flying funk or raging at you for loosing your side the fight.

The third, most disgusting thing is alibism. When your server looses, it’s “THEY” who have lost, the other players, the rest of your server, it’s not your fault at all, because you are insignificant compared to the vastness of WvW. But when you win, all of a sudden it’s “US” who have won. After all you have contributed to the victory just as much as the next Bob in the zerg. This human trait can be observed across the whole of human population in this world. The rejection of responsibility, diminishing of one’s worth so that nobody has to care. It’s just human nature to avoid having to feel bad or stressed. It’s also the nature of those who never amount to anything themselves.

TL;DR : people play sPvP because they want to stick out, to mean something and prove themselves… be competitive. People play WvW because they don’t want to have a reason to feel bad about themselves, while gaining the opportunity to feel like they contributed to something.

ITT: sPvP pugs talks about the WvW. What’s even more fun – topic created in the forum subsection which is rarely visited by WvW crowd. Guys, do you really want to know the views of WvW fans & hardcore guilds, or you just want a place where you could express your opinion without any criticism?

CookMETEnder.7582:

…because people have different opinions.

Which is why I asked why it was worth doing, because in my opinion it’s awful. I wanted to hear the opinions of others who may enjoy it for reasons that I’ve yet to explore. I don’t want to say, “This is stupid, I’m never doing this again” because there’s a good chance I’m missing the point.

Rednik.3809:

ITT: sPvP pugs talks about the WvW. What’s even more fun – topic created in the forum subsection which is rarely visited by WvW crowd. Guys, do you really want to know the views of WvW fans & hardcore guilds, or you just want a place where you could express your opinion without any criticism?

I’d rather hear opinions from sPvPers who also enjoy WvW, being an sPvPer who wants to enjoy WvW myself.

If you were a boxer who wanted to try wrestling, would you ask a wrestler if he thought wrestling was effective? Or would you ask a boxer who also did wrestling if he thought wrestling was effective?

Having played WvW and s/tPvP, both have their ups and downs, but I have found some of the best fights occur in Wvw because of the variety of builds you come across. Once you wvw a bit longer, you will learn the best places to find roamers and avoid the zerg (though coming across them is sometimes inevitable, but at least you get to practice escape tactics :p).

One problem with spvp is the lack of variety of available builds because of the limited stat distributions. And even then, hot join still has zerg problems. In tpvp, it’s more about allocating resources to stay in a circle as long as possible. As a bunker, I watch my health bar and cooldowns instead of killing the people capturing the node because that’s my job.. it can get repetitive.

I suggest trying out WvW a bit longer – there are good fights to be had! It may take some roaming and luck to find them, but they’re there.

It just depends on what you like. You cannot play with the same gear/weapon combos in WvW as you do in PvP.

WvW:
Large scale group battles (this is the reason a lot of people like WvW. If you are looking for 1v1 or 2v2 battles, stay in PvP)
Ability to use the weapons you earn in PvE
Very tanky specs
A lot of walking
Server/Guild Pride

PvP:
Much faster action
Glass cannon is actually a viable spec
You will die a lot more here (kills are probably equal with WvW)
Individual/Team Pride

WvW is where I like to roam and gank noobs. I don’t go there usually for amazingly skilled players. Occasionally, you will find one, but it’s rare.

I go to wvw to wtfrape those noobs who have no clue what they are doing because it’s fun to just stomp on noobs sometimes.

sPvP is more fun, combat wise.
WvW is more fun, against the odds.

swinsk.6410:

I don’t go there usually for amazingly skilled players. Occasionally, you will find one, but it’s rare.

How would you even know if they were good?
Between ascended gear and double consumables you can have some guy go full tank and full spank at the same time. Must make him good at the game.

Hanzo.9624:

1. You outnumber the enemy to the point where it doesn’t matter.

3. The combat is, largely, gear dependent.
4. You fight people that aren’t the same level as you.

That’s why ppl like wvsw…cookies without any skills involved…in tpvp you must be good to achieve something, in wvsw you can be as bad as you want you always have a zerg behind you…rewards with no effort? Pve ppl love it…sometimes you see those uber commanders in s-tpvp and they’re just…crap…even a r10 hs spammer can beat the kitten out of them anyday…but hey….commander guys, no kitten…
Last commander i met in tpvp ended his tourn match vs our core on top of ct’s roof for not being facerolled more while his guildmates (yeah they were something like a wvsw’s guild premade…rofl) were still chain dieing on respawn under base…500-18 lol…dunno how they managed to get 18 points btw…2 pew pew zerk rangers max rank 12 or something if i remember right…nough said..oh…and they still managed to rage for something like nerf this..op there…and stuff like that ._.

Ending with an obvious map chat cheer:

No free laurels for you guys…100g title uh?
PvE that way —-——->

if you don’t have a group to do WvW or your server isn’t organized with a common VoIP then you won’t be able to enjoy what WvW really is.

Sure there are tons of people running in the zerg and spaming 1, but this people don’t know how to properly play, but they can still have some fun.

When you are moving in a squad (15-25 people) if the team is coordinated and know how to play for the team, you could easily beat zergs that doubles your size, and fights against other squads that know what they are doing are lot’s of fun.

Your PvP build won’t work in WvW and you have to invest a lot to find the best build for you and your team, yes there are some builds that may look OP on small fights like ele d/d or thief d/p but when going on groups don’t add much.

First of all you have to keep in mind that player’s AoE is limited to 5 targets, so if you have a staff ele do a meteor shower it won’t hit more than 5 ppl at the same time, but more than killing it will make the other team move away from the AoE, you can start a strategy from that point.

The huge open field gives you tons of mobility as a group, also spells like mesmer’s veil help a lot to move around enemies, you disapear for a short period of time, but maybe enough to appear in the middle, both sides or the back of the enemies.

You can make the landscape work in your favor, you can throw people out of cliffs with the right skills for an “easy” kill.

To enjoy WvW you need to see a bigger picture, is not about me, is about my team winning, there is a lot of military thinking going on, move together, drop certain fields to stack might or cure the whole group without messing up, WvW in high play is a lot more complex than just zerg your way, but also is a place where pugs can enjoy.

Strategy is dead in wvw the groups are so large you can’t play the game so who wins biggest zergs smallest wieners. Let me guess you also play bunker canguro.

My counter-argument is my youtube channel. It has everything from solo, duo, 5-man, and guild versus guild to zergbusting with 10-15.

http://www.youtube.com/user/RaggokOozo

Hanzo.9624:

stof.9341:

Hanzo.9624:

stof.9341:

sPvP is very frustrating to play for not that good players. WvW isn’t.

You’re only ‘not that good’ at the beginning, just like everyone else. I’d rather be bad at sPvP than be good at WvW.

The beginning matters a lot when it causes players to stop playing altogether.

Also, sPvP is definitively unfun when you do too much solo queueing or hotjoin. Not everyone has a team available for serious tournament play.

An eSport game must be casual friendly or else it won’t have players at all. WvW isn’t eSport but is casual friendly so there are players there.

I don’t do tournies on a serious team. I group with friends when they’re on, solo queue when I have time and no one else is on, and hotjoin every other time. I’m rank 40 and I haven’t gotten bored yet. By your logic new players to Call of Duty would quit immediately if they’re not good enough. Everyone starts somewhere.

The mists seems WAY more casual friendly than WvW if only for that fact that you don’t have to spend countless hours farming gear to be competitive. You can configure your gear and build for free without wasting gold. You don’t have to pay for repairs. You spend more time fighting players in small battles and less time running around looking for something to do.

People who play pvp want to kill players, right? You have to get better at your class in order to kill players which means countless fights, respecs, gear changes etc. All of this is easier to accomplish in the mists. You’re not going to get better at your class in WvW where the numbers are always tilted toward one team, gear and consumables play a huge role, level plays a huge role, etc. Spamming ranged attacks at a zerg isn’t going to teach you the finer nuances of your class.

In sPvP you have the same gear options as everyone else with no consumables. The fights aren’t based on how good your gear is or if you’re up leveled or not. It eliminates that variable and forces you to be a better player on a balanced playing field. How can that be considered less fun PvP for people that truly enjoy PvP?

There you have it, you pointing out Call of Duty as an example tells me that you like tight playgrounds while if you had stated Battlefield 3 I would have envisioned wide open Battlefields

I wonder if you took a Poll if you would find that sPvP players would choose CoD and WvW players would come back with a majority of BF3 responses?

Why can’t people enjoy both? if you don’t, then stick to what you DO like.

I like both WvW and sPvP. I like to get better gear and level up and have that make it a little easier in WvW. I also like playing for my ‘World’ and trying to ‘win’ as a world rather than a small team in sPvP sometimes. I also like the even playing field of sPvP and letting skill have a bigger part of the game.

Play the parts you like. You don’t have to like every aspect of the game.

Caffynated.5713:

Your WvW experience is going to be dictated by what tier your server is in. The competitive players and guilds have mostly congregated in the top 4-5 servers to fight each other, leaving the lower tiers filled with people who either don’t want to be competitive or don’t know how the game works.

Or people stay in lower tiers where they can be competitive and still get into smaller fights. Lower tiers can be a lot of fun too. If you want to see your zerg crush the other zergs that is fine too.