Guild Wars 2

Well we all know of the biggest problem with wvw these days is population and coverage, and the season highlighted it much more than ever. If you have greater coverage in a match you most likely will win, and win by the time the weekend is over.

We have all looked for solutions on how to balance populations, like offering transfers to lower server reduced cost or for free, that may work to some degree if players are willing to move down to get away from the queue of the stacked servers.
May even try to reduce capacity in the maps, which again will force players in those queued maps to spread out especially the guilds, and may even work on reducing the zerg ball, but I love those big open field fights, as long as it’s near equal numbers, plus we don’t need maps to feel empty.
Limiting points gain in none primetime/overnight but that restricts other players during their normal playtimes, the game runs 24/7 and it’s not fair to limit those players who are not in your primetime zone their right to play.

Either way I don’t think population problems will ever go away and I think we need to look at wvw competitive balance in a different angle.

The current game.
Team A, usually has the best coverage, gains the bloodlust buff more often than not, gains the bonus points for stomps which helps sway the match more into their favor, usually accumulates enough points by monday to run away with the match.
Team B and C, anywhere from close to equal cover to don’t even belong in that tier, Team C is usually getting double teamed for their bases because they are an easy target, when really Team B and C should be beating on A.

Arenanet introduced a very interesting mechanic in earning score points from stomping people while under bloodlust, so why don’t we expand on that.

Example Proposal.
Team A earns 1x points from bloodlust as normal, they would earn no bonus points from outmanned buff.
Team B earns 2x points from bloodlust buff, they would earn 2x bonus on structures and also earn score points from siege kills while under outmanned buff.
Team C earns 3x points from bloodlust buff, they would earn 3x bonus on structures and also earn score points from siege kills while under outmanned buff.

The bonus amount will need to be tweaked obviously, and teams will have their bonus points gain change according to their current rank in the matchup. If teams are within 10k points of each other then the bonuses should be turned off. If Team A is 5k ahead of Team B and Team C is 15k behind Team B, then only Team C is earning the bonus. The two conditions are random enough that the two lower teams will not completely keep up with the top team.

The conditions should be helping the lower teams rather than only buffing up the top team. The top team should be rewarded as Arenanet explained in their reasoning for the bloodlust buff back when it was the orbs, but their coverage is already the reward for them which allows them to win matches easier, as well as in this scenario of points collecting they have the ability to deny/limit their enemies access to the bloodlust buff much more than the other two teams.

So what’s the point of keeping teams so close in points you may ask, might as well not have a points score. Well the reverse is also true since the start, what’s the point of scoring when the top coverage team is always running away with matchups. The point is to keep the matchup close enough so that all sides continue to compete through the week, but you still have to work at keep it close. Many times a server will just give up on bothering about ppt when they know who’s going to win the matchup from the moment the match starts.

END: The short story – 2nd 3rd place earn more points while under bloodlust and outmanned to help stay competitive. Instead of just outright rewarding the bonus to the top team, use the buffs to help the lower teams, the top team still gets rewarded with coverage and the option to deny their foes points.

WvW will never be comparable to sports competitions because of population imbalances, so change the points system not the population.

Wow, while the numbers themselves may need tweaking from a practical point, I must say your idea behind this is great. I really like how it gives a team that is behind a chance to get back in the fight. Maybe even incentivize the second and third place teams with even more bonus points for stomping or taking the objectives of the first place team if they get too far ahead.

Overall a good idea that can help the problem without tackling the basically impossible to solve population issues.

Good idea for balancing PPT score, cant say I have seen anyone mention something close to this. That said, suggestions for balancing PPT score will be ignored and should be ignored because:
Its not fair to the winning team to be penalized for winning.
Its not the winning servers fault for having strong numbers.
The smaller servers have to adapt to deal with blobs by their own means. There are already plenty of ways to do this.
PPT score should not be the end-all way to determine which server is better. Plenty of roamers are happy to have a 10 min re spawn time, plenty of siege monkeys are happy to throw poop from up high, plenty of 20-30 groups are happy to be loot bags.
I used to think there was a problem, then I decided to ignore the score at the top and everything became a lot more enjoyable.

Thanks for the response guys.

I only suggest this because I want games to be closer, it’s exciting when the scores remain close for most of the week. I’ve been in a few close games including the first week in the gold season with jq bg sor. It makes a big difference when you’re playing in a match like that rather than a bg sos mag matchup which will never be close to a competition because of bg’s population.

About balancing the ppt score. They will never be able to balance populations, that portion of the game will always be unbalanced, but who’s to say the scoring has to be balanced in that situation? Again this isn’t like a sports competition where every side is playing on even numbers, and coaches and skill determine the win. Why shouldn’t the smaller wvw teams who face greater odds not be rewarded more for their efforts?

Not fair to the winning team to be penalized for winning?
Not the winners server fault for having strong numbers?
You are right, but, it’s also not the fault of the smaller server that they don’t have the numbers to compete either, or that they are constantly thrown into blow out matchups. Why should they continue to be penalized for that? Guilds move for top competition that’s why we’re getting stacked servers or getting paid to transfer, they have even moved off successful servers, in the end it’s not the servers fault and they shouldn’t be so heavily penalized almost every match for that.

The suggestion doesn’t penalize the winning server, they will all earn points the same way as before, it gives out bonus points, but instead of just basically only giving it to the winning team who’s already winning it helps the bottom teams. Arenanet already opened the gates for bonus scoring by adding in the points for stomps, which again favors the top team because of coverage and their zerg to overrun smaller groups.

They can use the buffs more positively for players stuck in those situations. We’re outmanned and there’s a zerg running around with scouts everywhere, can’t do much of that, but maybe my havok squad of 10 people can go flip a tower and set up some defense to hold off the zerg while we earn points as if we have 3 towers, bonus points for killing with siege. We just got a bloodlust buff? excellent maybe our roamers can grab a couple extra points with their kills.

You can’t change the population situation, but you can change the quality of the points, quality over quantity right?

While there are many players not caring about scoring anymore, and I bet being blown out or matching up against servers they have no chance against over and over moved them to that. Happy not worrying about the score anymore? cool happy for those that enjoy the game like that as well, but there is another side of the coin, there are many who still do care to play to win for their server. If Arenanet is going to continue to treat wvw as a competition with ongoing seasons, then yes they still need to try and balance it for all teams involved.

I forgot to also mention that the roles of defenders should play a more prominent role in holding structures while under the outmanned buff. They have the ability to detect when players are in a capture ring to proceed with the capture timer, would it really be difficult to add in an invisible ring around the entire structure to detect when friendly defenders are in there and provide some bonus points as well?

The bonus should only be triggered when the defending side is outmanned, there are 3 or more players in the structure and it is currently under attack, ie white swords are up. The bonus could trigger every 2 minutes, and the defenders get some extra wxp and score bonus. Scouts could also earn a bonus with this method of detection of how long a person has been at the structure, I would however put that timer higher than the afk time out timer, to try and limit people from taking advantage of that, not that the bonus should be worth going after for 15mins anyways.

I would like to keep any bonus scores given on certain conditions met rather than outright multiplying the score. Conditions you basically have little control over but can take advantage of when it’s around. Almost like a rng proc from a weapon providing a little extra damage. Adding more ways to earn score in wvw other than taking structures wouldn’t be a bad thing.