Guild Wars 2

I quite like some sort of lore or back story to my games, as long as it doesn’t get in the way too much. The point of a borderlands is that it is your border and beyond it are untamed expanses and enemy hordes…

Assuming a three server match up as we have at the moment, we could have a combination of maps that cater for different play styles. Just select the map you want from the WvW screen.

3 Borderlands maps, one per server. Smallest map.
3 Region maps eg City, Rural, Tundra. Intermediate size map.
1 Central battleground. Largest map.

Borderlands are the edge of our home server territory – so you’d expect supply camps, a couple of towers and a large keep (Garrison) protecting a citadel. There should be spawn points for attacking forces, and intermediate objectives to defend/capture. The old Alpine BL map did this pretty well, so something similar but a bit smaller.
The Borderlands maps should be server based and cater for small groups/roamers being able to defend against small or large groups. Taking a complete, defended borderlands should be difficult (with appropriate rewards).

Region maps are the land just beyond the borderlands – untamed as yet. These could be pieces of Tyria – existing map sections. I thought a City, a rural area and a tundra would give variety. Imagine 3 groups fighting for domination in Divinity’s Reach or Ebonhawk, or battling over the rolling hills in Kessex, or fighting amid the desolation of Frost Gorge. I’d be happy to see diffrent bits of Tyria on rotation.
These regions could be alliance or multiserver – the spawns being Red, Green and Blue so there is always some action regardless of server population. The map would be aimed at skirmishes between small to medium groups with objectives to take that give some bonus/support in the home borderlands (thinking along the lines of the Ogres in EB) perhaps in the form of improved defensive/offensive capabilities (eg Ogre NPCs to support BL guards or raiders).

The central battleground would be like EB with a large objective in the centre. It should cater for large group battles with open areas and towers and keeps. This map is the fourth “country” we’re all fighting over, and should give rewards as such – maybe more resources, more ppt or better magic find/loot (or all three) as you control more of it.

I think this should cover most WvW styles. Small GvG in the Region maps but scope for roamers too. Zergs and strong keeps in the battlegrounds with space for epic battles and rewards to suit yet a role for scouts, and finally defenders solo, group or zerging in the home borderlands as the need calls.
Server play is retained and made meaningful, but with the option of alliance or megaserver approach for the Region areas – sort of bringing a relevant version of EotM into real WvW.

If this sounds a bit like what we already had that’s no coincidence. WvW has actually been pretty good for the last 3 years, and the basic ideas would still work.

So:
1 – Would this sort of combination work for a wide enough variety of players?
2 – Which bits of Tyria would be worth turning into WvW regions?

Yuffi.2430:

The point of a borderlands is that it is your border and beyond it are untamed expanses and enemy hordes…

Nope, since HoT the border isnt “yours”. Enemies have a majority of home keeps (ie waypointed) in “your” border. Hence its not a homeborder anymore.

Anyway, yeah I never really understood why Anet didnt instead choose to experiment with blending WvW and the PvE world instead of creating the completely dislocated abomination that is EoTM. We already know that there is no technical limitations, the event system allow for open world PvP in PvE. I would have loved to see zone wide events that’s sort of WvW, except you join as either Risen or Pact and fight for objectives.

A complete WvW integration into the open world would require a radical map redesign. None of the current PvE maps have a good enough “keeps and tower” base design.

That is exactly the point: the “home” borderlands is no longer mine. What we have is EB version 2. I’m willing to bet that this has happened because someone looked at EB and said “look at all the epic fights there – that’s what we need more of…” and kinda missed the point of the home borderlands.

There were a number of players who played to defend their borderlands against invaders. If they wanted to play in an EB style map they would go to EB. I’m basing this statement on my personal experience and the 150 or so replies in Archonwing’s sticky about constructive feedback. I know it’s not everyone, and that’s fine, but it is a fair number of people and removing their game play isn’t fine.

One of the problems we have is the players who like EB already play there – why should they come to a map they don’t know as well? For the borderlands players – we’ve been transferred to EB style play. Period.
The new system has killed variety – you can play EB style on one central map, or you can play EB style on three identical maps where the only change is who gets North. The T0 east/west keep waypoints provide an advantage attackers did not previously have – a foothold in my borderlands that the home team now can’t have access to. I can imagine players asking: “what is there to defend? Why should I bother?” and so they don’t.

Making upgrades zero cost to players but manually activated, and returning the keep waypoints to who ever owns the keep at T3 would go a long way to restoring some feeling of a “home” borderlands. However to build for the future, why not drop towers and camps into existing maps. It wouldn’t take much work, especially if some of the ruined castles around the game are given temporary fortifications (perhaps dependant on the supply collected there like we see in HoT) and it would extend the “story” behind WvW and give us more variety. Something new without losing what was good… isn’t that worth a thought?

The new borderlands are nothing like EB style. At least, I’m not seeing it. Can you be more specific in your assertion? I see EB as a place where fights are constant and defending is hardly a thing except for sometimes when you hold SM or when your keep is under attack. Everyone is right next to each other and can spawn close enough to get back into the action in a moment of so.

The old BLs were a place where the home team had an advantage only in the northern triangle and could get a full map advantage by getting WPs in the side keeps. At it’s best, it made for intense defense of the side keep WPs but at worst it made it impractical for a smaller force to attack the BL (with WPs) of a larger force no matter what kind of strategy they employed. Thus, most of the action took place on the smaller forces BL where they resisted getting run over for as long as possible. Usually, attackers would build siege in a nearby tower and thus ensure victory since the smaller force couldn’t counter the siege very effectively.

The new BLs have keeps where multi-pronged attacks have a much better chance of working due to not being able to be spotted from miles away. Additionally, since the home force can’t WP them, a smaller foreign force has a chance to effectively siege it if they play their cards right. Defending them is currently a bit less intense among some people since no one is using guild upgrades, but once those come along there’ll be even more reason to hold a structure for a long period besides just better walls/gates. Also, with the sentry mechanic, tracking enemies is much easier. Whether it’s getting early warning on a zerg or hunting down a pair of roamers, their marking is essential. I really can’t wait to be able to put that on a tower…a scout’s dream.

But, more to the point, the borderlands are not much different in terms of mobility for a server that couldn’t routinely WP sidekeeps. They’re certainly not EB-esque, at least. But, we should note, the whole borderland concept is somewhat contrived anyway. Every team has always been able to spawn near a keep and at least one tower. If they so chose, they could make any border their own for one corner. The only thing that makes the hometeam different is that they spawn near a keep and two towers instead of one so it’s usually worth more to hold your own border than to move elsewhere.