WvW without PPT? How would you do it?

WvW without PPT? How would you do it?

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Posted by: TorquedSoul.8097

TorquedSoul.8097

Yeah and I guess most EU players think like me; we don’t care about 24/7 coverage, that’s an NA fetish – so we wouldn’t take all kind of hurdles to play on but simply leave – and there goes your dream of EU coverage.

I think you are overstating the impact. But you are entitled to your opinion.

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

I think you’re underestimating EU players. We’re not just cattle to fill a time zone =)

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Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

I’d say leaving the top populated servers and merging the others to keep them in line with them is pretty fair. If the number 1 server is substantially higher populated than the 2nd and 3rd then yes, merge some with them and work from there. The idea is to find a server (or a few) and use it as a “cap” to aim for and fill other servers to get them more in line with that.

It’s not only a lower tier problem but there is a huge gap in population between the higher and lower population servers. What should it matter if some server gets left untouched if it means that all of the servers end up on roughly equal footing?

Yes, people will prioritise population fixes over server pride as a whole but that doesn’t mean that server pride should be removed, it’s one of the biggest joys of the game mode and going the megaserver route may remove that community pride that most servers currently have. Merging would at least allow deleted servers to integrate and build up a new community and a new home to be proud of.

its not as easy as merging everything below, say, t2. each matchup and each timezone has imbalances, both in population and competence. this also doesnt solve the bandwagoning and guild buying.

im just worried about the fallout but it would probably be few and far in between.

i was never very into server pride, so im biased. i sorta was back when i was on borlis pass, but that quickly disappeared when it started to take more then 30 minutes to find someone, anyone. it would be interesting to know what portion of the community cares about it. theres always guild pride. that for sure shouldnt be taken away due to faults in the megaserver system.

Team Deathmatch for PvP – Raise the AoE cap for WvW – More unique events for PvE

(edited by Stand The Wall.6987)

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Posted by: TorquedSoul.8097

TorquedSoul.8097

I think you’re underestimating EU players. We’re not just cattle to fill a time zone =)

Who thinks you are cattle? I think you are projecting. Maybe you simply don’t like North American players and project these negative views on to them to hide your contempt.

Either way, Anet will do what Anet will do. I doubt a lone dissenting voice from the EU will stop that.

Regardless, It is fun to watch all the different WvW factions voice their opinion in a quasi-reasonable fashion in an attempt cloak their real motivations.

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Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

Regardless, It is fun to watch all the different WvW factions voice their opinion in a quasi-reasonable fashion in an attempt cloak their real motivations.

what motivations :3

Team Deathmatch for PvP – Raise the AoE cap for WvW – More unique events for PvE

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

I think you’re underestimating EU players. We’re not just cattle to fill a time zone =)

Who thinks you are cattle? I think you are projecting. Maybe you simply don’t like North American players and project these negative views on to them to hide your contempt.

Either way, Anet will do what Anet will do. I doubt a lone dissenting voice from the EU will stop that.

Regardless, It is fun to watch all the different WvW factions voice their opinion in a quasi-reasonable fashion in an attempt cloak their real motivations.

She’s not alone. While I don’t speak for all of EU, if they wanted to play on NA, they would have by now. EU WVW is nowhere near as messed up as NA. There’s a (cultural) reason for that.

L’enfer, c’est les autres

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Posted by: TorquedSoul.8097

TorquedSoul.8097

I think you’re underestimating EU players. We’re not just cattle to fill a time zone =)

Who thinks you are cattle? I think you are projecting. Maybe you simply don’t like North American players and project these negative views on to them to hide your contempt.

Either way, Anet will do what Anet will do. I doubt a lone dissenting voice from the EU will stop that.

Regardless, It is fun to watch all the different WvW factions voice their opinion in a quasi-reasonable fashion in an attempt cloak their real motivations.

She’s not alone. While I don’t speak for all of EU, if they wanted to play on NA, they would have by now. EU WVW is nowhere near as messed up as NA. There’s a (cultural) reason for that.

What cultural reasons would that be?

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

I think you’re underestimating EU players. We’re not just cattle to fill a time zone =)

Who thinks you are cattle? I think you are projecting. Maybe you simply don’t like North American players and project these negative views on to them to hide your contempt.

Either way, Anet will do what Anet will do. I doubt a lone dissenting voice from the EU will stop that.

Regardless, It is fun to watch all the different WvW factions voice their opinion in a quasi-reasonable fashion in an attempt cloak their real motivations.

She’s not alone. While I don’t speak for all of EU, if they wanted to play on NA, they would have by now. EU WVW is nowhere near as messed up as NA. There’s a (cultural) reason for that.

What cultural reasons would that be?

If you spent some time, say a year, playing EU, this would be starkly evident. It’s hard to quantify.

Honestly, this pairing idea feels more like we all got the same toys for Christmas, only NA broke theirs and now want to come break ours. :p

L’enfer, c’est les autres

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Posted by: TorquedSoul.8097

TorquedSoul.8097

I think you’re underestimating EU players. We’re not just cattle to fill a time zone =)

Who thinks you are cattle? I think you are projecting. Maybe you simply don’t like North American players and project these negative views on to them to hide your contempt.

Either way, Anet will do what Anet will do. I doubt a lone dissenting voice from the EU will stop that.

Regardless, It is fun to watch all the different WvW factions voice their opinion in a quasi-reasonable fashion in an attempt cloak their real motivations.

She’s not alone. While I don’t speak for all of EU, if they wanted to play on NA, they would have by now. EU WVW is nowhere near as messed up as NA. There’s a (cultural) reason for that.

What cultural reasons would that be?

If you spent some time, say a year, playing EU, this would be starkly evident. It’s hard to quantify.

Honestly, this pairing idea feels more like we all got the same toys for Christmas, only NA broke theirs and now want to come break ours. :p

How exactly does NA break their toy? I’ve only been playing WvW for about six months. So fill me in so that I can better understand why EU players would be so adamant about not playing with NA players.

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

I think you’re underestimating EU players. We’re not just cattle to fill a time zone =)

Who thinks you are cattle? I think you are projecting. Maybe you simply don’t like North American players and project these negative views on to them to hide your contempt.

Either way, Anet will do what Anet will do. I doubt a lone dissenting voice from the EU will stop that.

Regardless, It is fun to watch all the different WvW factions voice their opinion in a quasi-reasonable fashion in an attempt cloak their real motivations.

She’s not alone. While I don’t speak for all of EU, if they wanted to play on NA, they would have by now. EU WVW is nowhere near as messed up as NA. There’s a (cultural) reason for that.

What cultural reasons would that be?

If you spent some time, say a year, playing EU, this would be starkly evident. It’s hard to quantify.

Honestly, this pairing idea feels more like we all got the same toys for Christmas, only NA broke theirs and now want to come break ours. :p

How exactly does NA break their toy? I’ve only been playing WvW for about six months. So fill me in so that I can better understand why EU players would be so adamant about not playing with NA players.

EU is in a similar boat and just as “broken” as NA. Your charts clearly show that.

Certain players are in denial to this and only look at the health of their server, not wvw as a whole.

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

(edited by Swagger.1459)

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

I think you’re underestimating EU players. We’re not just cattle to fill a time zone =)

Who thinks you are cattle? I think you are projecting. Maybe you simply don’t like North American players and project these negative views on to them to hide your contempt.

Either way, Anet will do what Anet will do. I doubt a lone dissenting voice from the EU will stop that.

Regardless, It is fun to watch all the different WvW factions voice their opinion in a quasi-reasonable fashion in an attempt cloak their real motivations.

She’s not alone. While I don’t speak for all of EU, if they wanted to play on NA, they would have by now. EU WVW is nowhere near as messed up as NA. There’s a (cultural) reason for that.

What cultural reasons would that be?

If you spent some time, say a year, playing EU, this would be starkly evident. It’s hard to quantify.

Honestly, this pairing idea feels more like we all got the same toys for Christmas, only NA broke theirs and now want to come break ours. :p

How exactly does NA break their toy? I’ve only been playing WvW for about six months. So fill me in so that I can better understand why EU players would be so adamant about not playing with NA players.

EU is in a similar boat and just as “broken” as NA. Your charts clearly show that.

Certain players are in denial to this and only look at the health of their server, not wvw as a whole.

Well except for the fact that it’s common knowledge that api for EU is broken and not accurate. Charts with incorrect stats are still incorrect.

L’enfer, c’est les autres

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

I think you’re underestimating EU players. We’re not just cattle to fill a time zone =)

Who thinks you are cattle? I think you are projecting. Maybe you simply don’t like North American players and project these negative views on to them to hide your contempt.

Either way, Anet will do what Anet will do. I doubt a lone dissenting voice from the EU will stop that.

Regardless, It is fun to watch all the different WvW factions voice their opinion in a quasi-reasonable fashion in an attempt cloak their real motivations.

She’s not alone. While I don’t speak for all of EU, if they wanted to play on NA, they would have by now. EU WVW is nowhere near as messed up as NA. There’s a (cultural) reason for that.

What cultural reasons would that be?

If you spent some time, say a year, playing EU, this would be starkly evident. It’s hard to quantify.

Honestly, this pairing idea feels more like we all got the same toys for Christmas, only NA broke theirs and now want to come break ours. :p

How exactly does NA break their toy? I’ve only been playing WvW for about six months. So fill me in so that I can better understand why EU players would be so adamant about not playing with NA players.

Go play the next six months in EU. See it first-hand.

L’enfer, c’est les autres

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Posted by: TorquedSoul.8097

TorquedSoul.8097

I think you’re underestimating EU players. We’re not just cattle to fill a time zone =)

Who thinks you are cattle? I think you are projecting. Maybe you simply don’t like North American players and project these negative views on to them to hide your contempt.

Either way, Anet will do what Anet will do. I doubt a lone dissenting voice from the EU will stop that.

Regardless, It is fun to watch all the different WvW factions voice their opinion in a quasi-reasonable fashion in an attempt cloak their real motivations.

She’s not alone. While I don’t speak for all of EU, if they wanted to play on NA, they would have by now. EU WVW is nowhere near as messed up as NA. There’s a (cultural) reason for that.

What cultural reasons would that be?

If you spent some time, say a year, playing EU, this would be starkly evident. It’s hard to quantify.

Honestly, this pairing idea feels more like we all got the same toys for Christmas, only NA broke theirs and now want to come break ours. :p

How exactly does NA break their toy? I’ve only been playing WvW for about six months. So fill me in so that I can better understand why EU players would be so adamant about not playing with NA players.

EU is in a similar boat and just as “broken” as NA. Your charts clearly show that.

Certain players are in denial to this and only look at the health of their server, not wvw as a whole.

Well except for the fact that it’s common knowledge that api for EU is broken and not accurate. Charts with incorrect stats are still incorrect.

What is broken in the EU API?

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

I think you’re underestimating EU players. We’re not just cattle to fill a time zone =)

Who thinks you are cattle? I think you are projecting. Maybe you simply don’t like North American players and project these negative views on to them to hide your contempt.

Either way, Anet will do what Anet will do. I doubt a lone dissenting voice from the EU will stop that.

Regardless, It is fun to watch all the different WvW factions voice their opinion in a quasi-reasonable fashion in an attempt cloak their real motivations.

She’s not alone. While I don’t speak for all of EU, if they wanted to play on NA, they would have by now. EU WVW is nowhere near as messed up as NA. There’s a (cultural) reason for that.

What cultural reasons would that be?

If you spent some time, say a year, playing EU, this would be starkly evident. It’s hard to quantify.

Honestly, this pairing idea feels more like we all got the same toys for Christmas, only NA broke theirs and now want to come break ours. :p

How exactly does NA break their toy? I’ve only been playing WvW for about six months. So fill me in so that I can better understand why EU players would be so adamant about not playing with NA players.

EU is in a similar boat and just as “broken” as NA. Your charts clearly show that.

Certain players are in denial to this and only look at the health of their server, not wvw as a whole.

Well except for the fact that it’s common knowledge that api for EU is broken and not accurate. Charts with incorrect stats are still incorrect.

What is broken in the EU API?

Ppk, pop demographics. There’s a bug in the EU api.

L’enfer, c’est les autres

WvW without PPT? How would you do it?

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Posted by: TorquedSoul.8097

TorquedSoul.8097

I think you’re underestimating EU players. We’re not just cattle to fill a time zone =)

Who thinks you are cattle? I think you are projecting. Maybe you simply don’t like North American players and project these negative views on to them to hide your contempt.

Either way, Anet will do what Anet will do. I doubt a lone dissenting voice from the EU will stop that.

Regardless, It is fun to watch all the different WvW factions voice their opinion in a quasi-reasonable fashion in an attempt cloak their real motivations.

She’s not alone. While I don’t speak for all of EU, if they wanted to play on NA, they would have by now. EU WVW is nowhere near as messed up as NA. There’s a (cultural) reason for that.

What cultural reasons would that be?

If you spent some time, say a year, playing EU, this would be starkly evident. It’s hard to quantify.

Honestly, this pairing idea feels more like we all got the same toys for Christmas, only NA broke theirs and now want to come break ours. :p

How exactly does NA break their toy? I’ve only been playing WvW for about six months. So fill me in so that I can better understand why EU players would be so adamant about not playing with NA players.

EU is in a similar boat and just as “broken” as NA. Your charts clearly show that.

Certain players are in denial to this and only look at the health of their server, not wvw as a whole.

Well except for the fact that it’s common knowledge that api for EU is broken and not accurate. Charts with incorrect stats are still incorrect.

What is broken in the EU API?

Ppk, pop demographics. There’s a bug in the EU api.

population demographics? I didn’t know that population information was available in WvW. Kills and Deaths are still flakey but nearly fixed.

I don’t use much kill data because its been broken, however everything else seems to be working fine. I have an error in my score estimations and some of my activity calculations, but overall the data is not bad.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i3ijphtw01xps4k/2016-03-12_2-1.report.pdf?dl=0

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

I preferred your original post saying the data was bad.

L’enfer, c’est les autres

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Posted by: TorquedSoul.8097

TorquedSoul.8097

I preferred your original post saying the data was bad.

meh, typos. Short of objective ownership being misreported, my data is sound.

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Posted by: STIHL.2489

STIHL.2489

I put this on another Topic, but I’ll put here as well:

4: Balance PPT. Or more Accurately put, dealing with Capping during gaps in Coverage, and being Outmanned.

This would require a massive overhaul in how PPT worked, but I think it would do wonders for the game.

4-A Borderland PPT. Each Team, on their own Borderland, would get 5 PPT for any Camp They Controlled, 10 for Towers, 20 for Keeps.

On an Enemy’s Borderland, they would get 1PPT per Camp for each Active Defender on that Borderland. , 2 for a Tower, and 3 for a Keep. (Note: You can only be a Defender on your OWN borderland) up to a max of 20 Defenders Counted (IE: Max Gain for a Camp would be 20 PPT, if there were 20 Active Defenders On the Borderland) this number would be Divided by the Number of Invaders on that Borderland that Controlled said Camp/Tower/Keep.

IE: (Point Value* Defenders (max 20)) * (Defenders / Controlling Invader)

Note, every Borderland would have by Default 1 Active Player counted at all times. So, no one could get Zero Points. IE: If no one was on the Borderland, it would sill count as if there was 1 Active Player from all Sides.

To explain that: If Red owned one of Greens Keeps, they would get 3PPT per Active Green Player on Greens Borderland, Divided by the Number of Active Red players on Greens Borderland.

IE: Red Owns Greens Keep, Green has Default 1 Active Player, on the Borderland (No one), but Red, has 4 Active Invaders on the map. 3*(1/4) is what they would get for the keep, put another way, 3*.25 = 0.75 PPT.

Using another Example.

Red owns a Camp on Greens BL. There are 10 Active Green Defenders, and 2 Active Red Invaders. That camp is worth 10 (1PPT per Defender) *(10/2) = 50. Now that camp is worth 50 PPT to the Red Team, but they are also 2 people defending against 10 Defenders, it stands to reason that camp is not going to last long.

One more analogy to understand the Math a Bit More.

Green Owns Red’s Camp. There are 5 Red Defenders, and 1 Green Invader
Blue Owns Red’s Keep. There are the same 5 Red Defenders, but there are 12 Blue Invaders.

Camp = 1 PPT / Per Defender, Total Base 5
Keep = 3PPT/Per Defender, Total Base 15

Green gets 5*(5/1) = 25. So that Camp is worth 25 PPT to the Green Team
Blue gets 15*(5/12) = 6.25. So that Tower is worth 6.25 PPT to the Blue Team.

That means that the Camp to Green is worth 4 times what the Keep is worth to Blue. This means the game changes from sheer capped points to playing a game of strategic capping.

This would eliminate the whole problem of winning through coverage gaps, or winning by sheer volume of players. Which is really the main problem with PPT, is how it can be exploited, and doing this would close that loophole in the PPT problem we have right now, especially with the low and mid population server, that simply don’t have the coverage.

4-B Eternal Battlegrounds.

The Battle grounds are divided up by 3 sections and Stone Mist castle. This creates a very special situation.

To do this, Each Team would have Declared “Home Lands” that would provide them a Flat PPT if they Control it, exactly like their own Borderland. This would include their 20 for their, Keep, 10 for their 4 Towers, and 5 for their 2 Camps.

If they took another Teams Homeland, it would function as if they entered their Borderland. IE: (Value) * (Defender/Controlling Invader).

IE: If Green took Blues Keep. They would get (Keep*Active) * (Defenders/Controlling Invader) in this, Red’s active players do not come into play.

So, the Same Keep could be worth a lot More to one team over another.

For Example, if there are 20 Red, 27 Blue, and 7 Green.

Blues Keep is Worth 81 PPT to Red but worth 231 PPT to Green.

The Keep is only worth so much, because of the 27 Active Blue Players on the map, giving the Keep a value of 3PPT* Active Blue, Max 20. So only 20 of the 27 Players are counted, but the Keep is still worth 60PPT Base.

In Contrast, Geens’s Points are not Worth as Much, since there are only 7 active players, their Keeps base is a Paltry 21 PPT.

And Since they are vastly outnumbered, Greens Keep is only worth 7.3 PPT to Red, and 5.4 PPT to Blue.

It works pretty much the same as if you tied to take a Borderland, just in a smaller scale, but we can see how smart play, over simply brute force and capping can win the day with this kind of system.

Moving on.

The Mack Daddy – Stone Mist!

Stonemist, would and should be a prize. As Such Stonemist would Net a flat 100 PPT * (Both Active Teams/Controller)

IE: If there were 20 Blue Players, 35 Red Players, 40 Green players, and Green owned Stonemist.

100 * ((20+35)/40) = 137 PPT.

Now Imagine, if Blue Flips it.

100 * ((35+40)/20) = 375 PPT.

This idea would remove the sting of Night Capping, or Coverage Gaps, as well as the whole issue of getting rolled by a larger servers. It would reward smart play vs what we have now.

Now, Notice I have said Active Players this needs to be a way to distinguish between active and just on the map. Which happens, IE: What about the people there for crafting or banking, or whatever.

Any player with the “invulnerable” buff you get for being in the “Safe Area” would NOT be counted as Active.

There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty

(edited by STIHL.2489)