Guild Wars 2

whiran.1473:

Ajaxx.3157:

Wait a min… did someone just say Warrior downed state was op?

WHAT!

/facedesk

Which class has a better downed state than warrior?

Imo all. ( with ele being on power )

“hey catch this pebble I picked of the ground”DDDDDDDDDDD

Well… it is called Kill Shot.

Also Sweet Vengeance is awesome.

Massacrul.2016:

It’s nothing abnormal, My kill-shot many times do 10k+ dmg if it crits. Highest i did was like 13.5k or sth.

Diamh.4081:

" Every other insane burst damage in the game is melee and tells you even in a big zerg that its dangerous to not dodge it." <<<< this

Also I was killed in a large WvW fight instantly with a 12,333 kill shot today. Yes its fun to fight 15 vs 15 when you can get one shot at anytime without seeing it coming???

Oh, then you probably highly dislike ballistas too, am i right?

lmao, ballistas dont one shot me.. Do you even play this game? Ballista is a 2-3 shot which leaves plenty of time to get away. Not to mention is a stationary seige weapon that has to be built within los. People like this guy baffle the mind.

“glasscannon” build that works better then thiefe and ranger glasscannon build and still has more hp and armour… Sure it is blanced. The guy made a long post about it it must be true? Right?

I don’t really care what you can do to counter 14k hits. No one should be doing 14k hits. No one should even be doing 10k hits IMO considering the low amount of health some classes have. There should be more strategy involved, no one should be getting one or two or even three shot in this game.

Just so you know, Warriors have such high direct damage numbers because – with the exception of the Longbow burst ability – they are unable to apply damage any other way. No traps/marks/wells/etc to apply additional damage on top of the normal abilities. All Warrior damage is loaded into the skill you’re using at that exact moment, which is why things like 100 blades, kill shot, eviscerate, etc do so much damage.

Also, you’ve now learned a valuable lesson when fighting Warriors 1v1. If he has a rifle and is kneeling, dodge the shot or interrupt the cast. As a necro, you also have the option of popping Deathshroud to absorb the hit (oh woe is necro with their two life bars…).

You found the 1 thing ranged warriors are good at in WvW – single target nukes when adrenaline is up (it actually quite hard to build it with the rifle). I’ll happily trade that for 3 ground-targetted wells

There should be more strategy involved, no one should be getting one or two or even three shot in this game.

The strategy is to pay attention and see the 2 second cast time (which has a distinctive animation and prevents the Warrior from moving) and take appropriate action to deal with it. Not to stand there and expect to take it on the chin with a squishy class.

highest hp
highest armor
ability to wear full dps set due to the above
highest burst damage in both melee and ranged

sounds balanced to me

Kill shot has a long charge up.. you have endurance, don’t waist it? As for 1900 downed state rocks.. yea that’s a bit crazy but I hate the downed state idea all togeather. Probably has the 50% more downed dmg trait and glass cannon build.

Warriors aren’t OP by any means. They’re just really up-front about what they’re good at.

Just like every time a new fighting game comes out, everyone immediately starts kittening about grappler characters (WHY DOES ZANGIEF HIT SO HARD NERF NERF NERF). Then as people learn the game, those grappler characters drop tiers quickly. The characters that end up being top tier are not the ones with the most life or deal the most damage, but rather have the most options for any given situation. In GW2, I feel the characters with the most options for high-level play are Guardians and Mesmers.

I love playing Warrior because it’s fun to be extremely mobile and deal lots of damage. I’m not going to fool myself into thinking I’m some game-changing force in WvW, though. Sure, I’ll drop people on their kitten in a 1v1, but I don’t have the ability to control a ground fight the way other classes can. Sometimes I’m just more useful to my team as a doly booster or supply runner. And I’m OK with that.

TL;DR: Don’t try to 1v1 a Warrior. You’re playing into his strengths. But if you must, at least bring something to cause Fumble. That skill is severely underrated.

A necro’s greatest strength is their ability to stack conditions and convert enemy boons into conditions. In order for this warrior to do that much damage, he was stacking might. He got 4 from switching weapons (might have 8 from switching twice), justice (3x), might (5x), and rage (5x). There are maybe more but those are the most common. He had fury and swiftness up because he popped signet of rage. He might have even has some others if he had rune of lyssa.

You have at least 3 abilities that strip boons from people, two of them convert boons into conditions. Granted one is a well and probably wouldn’t be effective at range. You also have at least one daze and 3 ways to do blindness.

If you aren’t picking up some of these abilities, it is your fault. Daze would of interrupted and blindness would have caused him to miss. Then there is dodge. It was a one on one fight, if you can’t tell he was kneeling, you just a bad player.

Sorry, you lost that fight because you don’t know what you are doing.

So you ask for an enemy glass cannon to be kittened to be just ….glass?
Even so ,if you can’t avoid a 2 sec cast time, i doubt it would help you.

As for the rocks ,check other class Downed State skills and you will see there is a reason that warriors’ throw rock is meant to hit harder.

Leiloni.7951:

I don’t really care what you can do to counter 14k hits. No one should be doing 14k hits. No one should even be doing 10k hits IMO considering the low amount of health some classes have. There should be more strategy involved, no one should be getting one or two or even three shot in this game.

Did you not read the part that he downed the warrior? even with that 14k hit ?
What happens when that warrior face a better player that avoids KS? 0 Chance of winning is fair to you i guess…

Arkwind.3780:

Leiloni.7951:

I don’t really care what you can do to counter 14k hits. No one should be doing 14k hits. No one should even be doing 10k hits IMO considering the low amount of health some classes have. There should be more strategy involved, no one should be getting one or two or even three shot in this game.

Did you not read the part that he downed the warrior? even with that 14k hit ?
What happens when that warrior face a better player that avoids KS? 0 Chance of winning is fair to you i guess…

Necro’s have one of the highest HP pools in the game and a lot of defensive capability, that doesn’t mean 14k isn’t stupidly OP just because he downed the guy. Many characters would have been one shot by that 14k hit, or actually less than one shot because some classes don’t even have 14k HP unless they stack it. If Warrior’s can one shot other classes, those other classes are the ones that have 0 ability to fight back, not the Warrior. And if the Warrior relies on one really big hit to kill people, than the class is seriously broken.

Leiloni.7951:

Many characters would have been one shot by that 14k hit, or actually less than one shot because some classes don’t even have 14k HP unless they stack it.

You mean squishies are… squishy?

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Leiloni.7951:

Many characters would have been one shot by that 14k hit, or actually less than one shot because some classes don’t even have 14k HP unless they stack it.

You mean squishies are… squishy?

A warrior specced to do that much damage is effectively the warrior version of a squishy spec but he has far more HP and defense (and in some cases damage) than the classes that naturally have small HP pools. That is OP by itself and being able to one shot is also OP, not because they have small HP pools, but because 14k is too much and doesn’t give the player a chance to fight back. There’s no strategy involved in that.

I wonder how you’d feel if your Warrior had the 10k base HP of a Guardian/Ele/Thief, or even the 15k of an Engi/Ranger/Mesmer. That 14k would look different.

Kill shot can hit like a truck, but you would absolutely have to sacrifice some level of survivability to do it.

Leiloni.7951:

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Leiloni.7951:

Many characters would have been one shot by that 14k hit, or actually less than one shot because some classes don’t even have 14k HP unless they stack it.

You mean squishies are… squishy?

A warrior specced to do that much damage is effectively the warrior version of a squishy spec but he has far more HP and defense (and in some cases damage) than the classes that naturally have small HP pools. That is OP by itself and being able to one shot is also OP, not because they have small HP pools, but because 14k is too much and doesn’t give the player a chance to fight back. There’s no strategy involved in that.

I wonder how you’d feel if your Warrior had the 10k base HP of a Guardian/Ele/Thief, or even the 15k of an Engi/Ranger/Mesmer. That 14k would look different.

Are you seriously crying? Warriors are hardly the hardest hitting class in the game, nor are they the ones with the highest HP pool. Warrior is probably the middle ground of everything else.

Dinks.2478:

Leiloni.7951:

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Leiloni.7951:

Many characters would have been one shot by that 14k hit, or actually less than one shot because some classes don’t even have 14k HP unless they stack it.

You mean squishies are… squishy?

A warrior specced to do that much damage is effectively the warrior version of a squishy spec but he has far more HP and defense (and in some cases damage) than the classes that naturally have small HP pools. That is OP by itself and being able to one shot is also OP, not because they have small HP pools, but because 14k is too much and doesn’t give the player a chance to fight back. There’s no strategy involved in that.

I wonder how you’d feel if your Warrior had the 10k base HP of a Guardian/Ele/Thief, or even the 15k of an Engi/Ranger/Mesmer. That 14k would look different.

Are you seriously crying? Warriors are hardly the hardest hitting class in the game, nor are they the ones with the highest HP pool. Warrior is probably the middle ground of everything else.

Actually they do have the highest HP pool. Warrior’s and Necro get 18k base HP before even adding in gear or traits into the mix. That’s more than every other class. And on top of it, they have Heavy armor so they have more defense there as well. The only other heavy armor class is Guardian and they only have 10k HP. So yea, Warrior’s have the most base defense of any class without giving anything up. Other classes with comparable damage are squishy and often have to take other risks to do their damage, so there is a fair tradeoff most of the time.

Leiloni.7951:

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Leiloni.7951:

Many characters would have been one shot by that 14k hit, or actually less than one shot because some classes don’t even have 14k HP unless they stack it.

You mean squishies are… squishy?

A warrior specced to do that much damage is effectively the warrior version of a squishy spec but he has far more HP and defense (and in some cases damage) than the classes that naturally have small HP pools. That is OP by itself and being able to one shot is also OP, not because they have small HP pools, but because 14k is too much and doesn’t give the player a chance to fight back. There’s no strategy involved in that.

I wonder how you’d feel if your Warrior had the 10k base HP of a Guardian/Ele/Thief, or even the 15k of an Engi/Ranger/Mesmer. That 14k would look different.

Are we even playing the same game?

Leiloni.7951:

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Leiloni.7951:

Many characters would have been one shot by that 14k hit, or actually less than one shot because some classes don’t even have 14k HP unless they stack it.

You mean squishies are… squishy?

A warrior specced to do that much damage is effectively the warrior version of a squishy spec but he has far more HP and defense (and in some cases damage) than the classes that naturally have small HP pools. That is OP by itself and being able to one shot is also OP, not because they have small HP pools, but because 14k is too much and doesn’t give the player a chance to fight back. There’s no strategy involved in that.

I wonder how you’d feel if your Warrior had the 10k base HP of a Guardian/Ele/Thief, or even the 15k of an Engi/Ranger/Mesmer. That 14k would look different.

I’d feel perfectly fine if I’d also get Aegis, or stealth, or the multitudes of blinds/binds/fumbles that make other classes powerful in their own way. Stop trying to play your class like it’s a warrior and focus on what you’re good at instead.

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Leiloni.7951:

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Leiloni.7951:

Many characters would have been one shot by that 14k hit, or actually less than one shot because some classes don’t even have 14k HP unless they stack it.

You mean squishies are… squishy?

A warrior specced to do that much damage is effectively the warrior version of a squishy spec but he has far more HP and defense (and in some cases damage) than the classes that naturally have small HP pools. That is OP by itself and being able to one shot is also OP, not because they have small HP pools, but because 14k is too much and doesn’t give the player a chance to fight back. There’s no strategy involved in that.

I wonder how you’d feel if your Warrior had the 10k base HP of a Guardian/Ele/Thief, or even the 15k of an Engi/Ranger/Mesmer. That 14k would look different.

I’d feel perfectly fine if I’d also get Aegis, or stealth, or the multitudes of blinds/binds/fumbles that make other classes powerful in their own way. Stop trying to play your class like it’s a warrior and focus on what you’re good at instead.

Wow…come to thing of it, that is 90% of people’s problem. They want to play like a warrior and fail to understand why they die when they do play like one.

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Stop trying to play your class like it’s a warrior and focus on what you’re good at instead.

I’m not playing my class like a Warrior and I don’t have issues dying to them (I’m not the OP, either). Just pointing out how silly a 14k hit is.

And all I’m trying to point out is that one well-timed aegis/blind/stun/whatever turns that 14k that I have to spend all my points speccing for into a big fat zero. That’s the beauty of this game.

And all I’m trying to point out is that one well-timed aegis/blind/stun/whatever turns that 14k that I have to spend all my points speccing for into a big fat zero.

Feedback…

Just saying. My mesmer doesn’t need to do high damage, others seem to always do it for me.

My killshots usually do between 8-13k. I have almost full berserker gear; save 2-3 Invader pieces. If my killshot is dodged, I’m left with volley, which isn’t going to do nearly enough damage to down someone. After those two, I am left auto attacking. I never travel alone. I always mark the target I’m about to hit, and my team always hits the target I mark. You think dropping my killshot is going to make a difference?? Whether the 13k came from me or my team, you’re going down anyway. WvW isn’t sPvP. Stick with a team. 14k hit is too much? Sounds to me like you need to stop trying to glass cannon yourself as well. What I’m hearing is that its okay for YOU to glass cannon build, but not me. Maybe you should drop some power for Vit/Tough gear. I don’t ever recall a game having PVP gear that was glass cannon oriented for a reason.

I’ve been hit by thieves that pretty much STAY stealthed(to the point I can’t even get them targeted) and destroy me in about 2.8 seconds. I’ve been rocked by mesmers that blast 500 clones and kite me around(mesmer doesn’t need to be “in range” to drop them). Guardians? They have so many bubbles and reflects that even if I DO get a killshot off, it’s either going to be absorbed or reflected anyways. And of course there’s the Necro with their TWO HP bars, 200 DoT’s/conditions, and pets that charge and knock you down. And then there’s the profession with the roots that never stop, cannot be killed with the rifle. All you get is a big fat “obstructed” when you try to kill them. So, you switch to a melee, kill the roots, and then are stuck with a melee weapon while the swap is on cooldown.

It can be argued that none of the above would come into play if I get my shot off before you realize I’m targeting you. So, because I have more situational awareness than you, I should be penalized? I saw you first, I targeted you first, I reserve the right to kill you first.

Everyone has their strength and weaknesses. Mine is pure damage, and nothing else. If something goes wrong, or I don’t get my abilities off, I’m done. Not to mention 1/2 of the time my shots are “obstructed” by nothing but air.

Seems to me like the warriors are the only people that feel the spell is balanced. You saw me first in a pack of 15 people and I was unaware that you were kneeling or standing b/c there were 3 norns in front of you and 500 spells going off… you reserve the right to one shot me. That’s rich.

So, the only argument I’m hearing is that it takes forever to cast and it’s really easy to dodge. This spell is close to useless in small group or solo combat. And most players will be spending time pvping in smaller groups than 15+. Why again do you think this spell promotes good game mechanics/design if it’s only useful purpose is to exploit being very hard to identify in large group pvp combat to instantly kill someone who may or may not be a more highly skilled player than you?

Warrior downed state is ridiculously bad.
1 Throw rock
2 interrupt w/ hammer (single target)
3 vengeance.

There’s no reason you couldn’t finish him off if he goes down in a 1v1. he has 1 interrupt and veng is on a cooldown when he first goes down.

Also, he probably stacked might using FGJ and sigil of rage. he also couldve thrown OMM on you to give you 10 stacks of invuln.

Anyways, you downed him, so whats the complaint? He specced into being able to hit you for 14k, so less defense = you downing him.

It is true that the warrior can be counterd but to do more then then the base hp pool of 4 classes in this game does just sound not right. It should be changed. Also it is not ture that the warrio only can do burst dmg. He has several great condition builds but no one loves that builds becaus you can’t leech loot.

For me it seems more and more obvious that the game is balanced for PvE and not PvP.

Diamh.4081:

Seems to me like the warriors are the only people that feel the spell is balanced. You saw me first in a pack of 15 people and I was unaware that you were kneeling or standing b/c there were 3 norns in front of you and 500 spells going off… you reserve the right to one shot me. That’s rich.

So, the only argument I’m hearing is that it takes forever to cast and it’s really easy to dodge. This spell is close to useless in small group or solo combat. And most players will be spending time pvping in smaller groups than 15+. Why again do you think this spell promotes good game mechanics/design if it’s only useful purpose is to exploit being very hard to identify in large group pvp combat to instantly kill someone who may or may not be a more highly skilled player than you?

Warriors need to have full adrenaline for KS to do a lot of damage. In order to get adrenaline they need to do damage (or take damage, if they take a certain trait). Its their F1 skill (just some info in case you weren’t aware).

Kill Shot is definitely not “close to useless in small group or solo combat”.

I’m running sword/warhorn + rifle.

My strategy: while traveling in wvw i use sword/horn for mobility (perma swiftness), and I switch to rifle when i see an enemy. Buff up, debuff player, #2 skill cripple, #4 skill vulnerability, #3 skill volley. depending on my adrenaline level and how close they are to me (obviously farther if caster), i either:

Full Adrenaline:
• #5 skill KB then kill shot, swap to sword/horn & #4 skill for swiftness buff & cure cripple, #5 skill for vigor buff/add weakness debuff, then #2 skill to leap/close the gap and apply #1 skill bleeds + #2 skill cripple. they should be dead at that point. if not, i should have enough adrenaline to use sword F1 skill which immobilizes them (3 sec full adrenaline i think, less adrenaline = less time on immobilize) and does damage & applies bleeds.

Not Full Adrenaline:
• #5 skill KB, swap to sword/horn, #4 + #5 skills, close gap with #2 skill, apply cripple & bleeds. depending on how low they are i could:

low hp (30% ish): use the sword F1 skill. should be close to down here, if not down already.

decent hp (40% or more): apply bleeds using #1 skill, apply #4 + #5 warhorn buffs before swapping back to rifle where i #5 KB, #4 vul, #2 crip, #3 volley, F1 kill shot. should be dead.

Of course i didnt mix in reapplying signet of rage (might, swiftness, fury buff), FGJ (fury, might buff), or OMM (vulnerability debuff). Also didnt mix in that all of those shouts (FGJ, OMM, and SIO) remove conditions, SIO removes 2 conditions (6 rune specialty) and breaks stun. Didn’t factor in dodging enemy abilities either, and ill have 2x as many dodges from #5 warhorn skill.

It isnt as easy as KSing someone from a distance. Some warriors may do that, but they suck. And you should kill them.

I have not commented on the warriors downed state as of yet, but I feel the need to at this point. Those that are trying to say it is bad.. it has been asked that you specifically identify a profession with better downed abilities but warriors trying to defend their downed state skip over this request.

In my experience mesmers and warriors have the best downed state abilities of all the professions. If a warrior plays it correctly it looks something like this: > auto attack casually, while you wait for said assailant to get within melee range > continue to auto attack for 2.5 seconds while you laugh at them casting the “finish them” capping spell > knock them on their face with a hammer > continue auto attack for 2.5 seconds while watching and laughing at assailant attempting to claim his will deserved kill buy capping you > if at this point your opponent has remaining life go ahead and stand up (as if you were never downed in the first place) swing sword profit?

above mars.4586:

Diamh.4081:

Seems to me like the warriors are the only people that feel the spell is balanced. You saw me first in a pack of 15 people and I was unaware that you were kneeling or standing b/c there were 3 norns in front of you and 500 spells going off… you reserve the right to one shot me. That’s rich.

So, the only argument I’m hearing is that it takes forever to cast and it’s really easy to dodge. This spell is close to useless in small group or solo combat. And most players will be spending time pvping in smaller groups than 15+. Why again do you think this spell promotes good game mechanics/design if it’s only useful purpose is to exploit being very hard to identify in large group pvp combat to instantly kill someone who may or may not be a more highly skilled player than you?

Warriors need to have full adrenaline for KS to do a lot of damage. In order to get adrenaline they need to do damage (or take damage, if they take a certain trait). Its their F1 skill (just some info in case you weren’t aware).

Kill Shot is definitely not “close to useless in small group or solo combat”.

I’m running sword/warhorn + rifle.

My strategy: while traveling in wvw i use sword/horn for mobility (perma swiftness), and I switch to rifle when i see an enemy. Buff up, debuff player, #2 skill cripple, #4 skill vulnerability, #3 skill volley. depending on my adrenaline level and how close they are to me (obviously farther if caster), i either:

Full Adrenaline:
• #5 skill KB then kill shot, swap to sword/horn & #4 skill for swiftness buff & cure cripple, #5 skill for vigor buff/add weakness debuff, then #2 skill to leap/close the gap and apply #1 skill bleeds + #2 skill cripple. they should be dead at that point. if not, i should have enough adrenaline to use sword F1 skill which immobilizes them (3 sec full adrenaline i think, less adrenaline = less time on immobilize) and does damage & applies bleeds.

Not Full Adrenaline:
• #5 skill KB, swap to sword/horn, #4 + #5 skills, close gap with #2 skill, apply cripple & bleeds. depending on how low they are i could:

low hp (30% ish): use the sword F1 skill. should be close to down here, if not down already.

decent hp (40% or more): apply bleeds using #1 skill, apply #4 + #5 warhorn buffs before swapping back to rifle where i #5 KB, #4 vul, #2 crip, #3 volley, F1 kill shot. should be dead.

Of course i didnt mix in reapplying signet of rage (might, swiftness, fury buff), FGJ (fury, might buff), or OMM (vulnerability debuff). Also didnt mix in that all of those shouts (FGJ, OMM, and SIO) remove conditions, SIO removes 2 conditions (6 rune specialty) and breaks stun. Didn’t factor in dodging enemy abilities either, and ill have 2x as many dodges from #5 warhorn skill.

It isnt as easy as KSing someone from a distance. Some warriors may do that, but they suck. And you should kill them.

I don’t care if it requires adrenaline. I don’t care if it requires you to stand on your head while pouring a glass of milk. That’s not the point.

So some people like yourself find the spell useful in solo or small group pvp. Now that I am aware of the cast animation I am sure I will have no issues dodging it in solo or small group pvp. As for the rest of your post… it is devoid of any content addressing my argument.

Diamh.4081:

I have not commented on the warriors downed state as of yet, but I feel the need to at this point. Those that are trying to say it is bad.. it has been asked that you specifically identify a profession with better downed abilities but warriors trying to defend their downed state skip over this request.

In my experience mesmers and warriors have the best downed state abilities of all the professions. If a warrior plays it correctly it looks something like this: > auto attack casually, while you wait for said assailant to get within melee range > continue to auto attack for 2.5 seconds while you laugh at them casting the “finish them” capping spell > knock them on their face with a hammer > continue auto attack for 2.5 seconds while watching and laughing assailant attempting to claim his will deserved kill buy capping you > if at this point your opponent has remaining life go ahead and stand up (as if you were never downed in the first place) swing sword profit?

Thief: 1 throw knife (hits multiple foes, cripples, 2nd knife bleeds + poisons) 2 teleport, 3 disappear.
Guardian: aoe knock back (wtf?) 3 aoe heal + damage foes
Engineer: 3 aoe booby trap (launches foes)
Necro: 2 Fear, 3 damage and poisons foes (aoe)
Ele: 2 immobilize, 3 SAME THING AS VENGEANCE: Assume a mobile, vaporous form, returning to a downed state when the effect ends.

I wont go into mesmer because you already know its strong.

When warriors use vengeance, they stand back up and die (for good, not back to downed state) after about 6? seconds. In order to stay alive, they have to select a certain trait which is 20 points into Discipline. That trait allows them to live IF they kill an enemy in that 6 second time period.

I don’t care if it requires adrenaline. I don’t care if it requires you to stand on your head while pouring a glass of milk. That’s not the point.

So some people like yourself find the spell useful in solo or small group pvp. Now that I am aware of the cast animation I am sure I will have no issues dodging it in solo or small group pvp. As for the rest of your post… it is devoid of any content addressing my argument.

Yeah, it doesn’t really apply to your post. I’m just slightly frustrated because someone earlier in the thread (maybe it wasn’t >.<)said that all we have to do is use kill shot and we’re good. My bad.

Sami.1560:

Just so you know, Warriors have such high direct damage numbers because – with the exception of the Longbow burst ability – they are unable to apply damage any other way. No traps/marks/wells/etc to apply additional damage on top of the normal abilities. All Warrior damage is loaded into the skill you’re using at that exact moment, which is why things like 100 blades, kill shot, eviscerate, etc do so much damage.

Also, you’ve now learned a valuable lesson when fighting Warriors 1v1. If he has a rifle and is kneeling, dodge the shot or interrupt the cast. As a necro, you also have the option of popping Deathshroud to absorb the hit (oh woe is necro with their two life bars…).

You found the 1 thing ranged warriors are good at in WvW – single target nukes when adrenaline is up (it actually quite hard to build it with the rifle). I’ll happily trade that for 3 ground-targetted wells

There should be more strategy involved, no one should be getting one or two or even three shot in this game.

The strategy is to pay attention and see the 2 second cast time (which has a distinctive animation and prevents the Warrior from moving) and take appropriate action to deal with it. Not to stand there and expect to take it on the chin with a squishy class.

You’re trying to say that warriors should do that damage because they don’t have traps or wells? You get plenty of awesome utility skills. The big difference between the warrior and other classes is that a warrior can actually boon stack with their utilities where other classes condition stack. Personally, I’d rather boon stack because boon removal is far rarer than condition removal. Wells/traps sound nice but they are not that great and in no way make up for a warrior 1 shotting people. I’ll agree that warriors could use some more flavor in utilities, but again it does not mean they should be 1 shotting people.

Also you’ve completely missed warrior condition builds. Warriors are probably the best class at keeping bleeds stacked on a target, toss in some burning from the longbown and you make other “condition” classes jealous.

You’re absolutely right, that necro should have known that if he didn’t have DS up(it takes FAR longer to charge up than adrenaline) he should just be 2-3 shot. As I stated in my previous post dodging or interupting is not always an option. A good warrior waits for the 2nd or 3rd dodge to killshot. The warrior can also immoblize the target so dodging isn’t possible. The warrior can also use frenzy to cast that killshot so fast you don’t see the animation. You’re trying to justify insane damage because it can be avoided, SO CAN ALL OTHER DAMAGE. Does that mean all abilities should do 12k damage in berserker’s gear? That necromancer mark of blood should do a 10k bleed because it can be avoided right?

I would happily give you 3 ground targeted wells for the single target damage warriors have. Go actually play a necromancer and say you want wells. They are easily avoided, don’t do a lot of damage(longbow arcing arrow does more), provide moderate utility, and you need to be specced into targetable wells, which only has a range of 900. You’re also very wrong about warriors role in WvW. Warriors have a very wide range of things they are good at. They have great AOE with the longbow, are awesome at catching runners(aimed shot/pinned down, bolas), GS is great for capturing camps/killing dolyaks, banners are AWESOME for bolstering zergs/defending keeps.

As for strategy, as I listed above there are ways for warriors to completely remove any chance of dodging. Now that I think about it, even if killshot misses it just goes on cooldown for a few seconds, but the adrenaline stays full. Even if someone uses their dodges on killshot it will be off cooldown before their endurance is refilled and the killshot will land. No damage in this game should do that much damage or be an instant kill if it isn’t avoided.

There needs to be more strategy involved. A fight should last 20+ seconds, if you’re not avoiding the bigger damage attacks your health should be brought down by attrition, not by a single burst. The sooner ArenaNet brings burst down to a reasonable level the better off the game will be. I actually look forward to the day where having poison applied to a certain enemy build is necessary to kill him. Until then the game will continue to boil down to 2-3s burst fights.

LaronX.8079:

It is true that the warrior can be counterd but to do more then then the base hp pool of 4 classes in this game does just sound not right. It should be changed. Also it is not ture that the warrio only can do burst dmg. He has several great condition builds but no one loves that builds becaus you can’t leech loot.

A warrior would have to sacrifice most if not all of its survivability to do 14k kill shot, it would also need full adrenaline and probably some debuffs or a crit. Not to mention OP is a necro who has an equal if not greater hp pool than a warrior. I also don’t believe the OP’s statement about the warrior doing 1900 damage throw rocks, since my throw rock is pretty useless against real people. and Vengeance is kind of a get up and hope you kill the enemy, but you’re going to die anyway in a few seconds.

A Kill shot of that magnitude is an all or nothing situation. And since kill shot can easily be dodged rendering the Warrior a walking cool down, I don’t see the problem.

I could argue that when I’m fighting necros it is ridiculous that they have 9239293 pets to kite while fighting them, but that makes no sense.

Dinks.2478:

A warrior would have to sacrifice most if not all of its survivability to do 14k kill shot, it would also need full adrenaline and probably some debuffs or a crit. Not to mention OP is a necro who has an equal if not greater hp pool than a warrior.

But a Warrior’s survivability is already greater naked than most other classes. With no gear or traits they have more base HP than any other class except Necro who has the same amount, except Warrior’s have more armor than Necros do. Other classes to achieve either similar burst or similar defense have to give up a lot more in one area. This is why I think it needs to be fixed, to force Warrior’s to give something up like everyone else does. Instead of a 14k shot, make that do less damage and give their other skills slightly more damage to even things out, and if they need more utility and cc and things than do that as well. It’s just a bit off right now.

Distaste.4801:

There needs to be more strategy involved. A fight should last 20+ seconds, if you’re not avoiding the bigger damage attacks your health should be brought down by attrition, not by a single burst. The sooner ArenaNet brings burst down to a reasonable level the better off the game will be. I actually look forward to the day where having poison applied to a certain enemy build is necessary to kill him. Until then the game will continue to boil down to 2-3s burst fights.

This I agree with. If they changed combat to last longer it would mean the better player won because he had the time to use a proper strategy. Right now, dodging one shot (or hitting one shot) doesn’t leave a lot of room for good skill. And too much burst is what I hated in other games as well (Aion, TERA to name a few). We don’t need that.

Kill Shot is literally the easiest spell in the game to completely avoid.

If the Warrior is hidden in the middle of a group of 15, then why the kitten does 1 hit matter? 15 people are going to kill you extremely easily no matter what!

Fantom.9217:

Kill Shot is literally the easiest spell in the game to completely avoid.

If the Warrior is hidden in the middle of a group of 15, then why the kitten does 1 hit matter? 15 people are going to kill you extremely easily no matter what!

You could’nt have played much WvW with a statement like that. In a large group fight melee classes dance in and out of enemy range to try to pick someone out that is out of position. Ranged is king in large group pvp. If you are taking damage from 15 people at the same time you should be playing Sims.

Why does getting one shot matter? Getting one shot under any circumstances should matter.

I also would like anyone skimming through this threat to be sure to read Distate’s post a few up from this one. I agree with everything he said and he did a good job of describing how this spell needs to be looked at.

Don’t build glass cannon and you wont get 1 shot.

Arkiels.9016:

Don’t build glass cannon and you wont get 1 shot.

I am not glass cannon. My weapons have vitality. My amulet rings backpack and accessories all have toughness and vitality. And one should not be forced to build a certain way to avoid dying in one hit to a single warrior spell.

Glass cannon vs glass cannon is always going to be about who swings first.

I run wvwvw, with 3k toughness, 18k hp and I smash ppl in the face. Mitigation through dodge is your friend.

Arkiels.9016:

Glass cannon vs glass cannon is always going to be about who swings first.

All glass cannons are not built equal. Some are more glass than others, some do more damage than others. Some both at the same time. Regardless, no one should hit for that much because it takes skill out of the equation when one hit or one dodge makes or breaks a fight. This game should be about more than one action per fight.

What im saying is, the counter to a glass cannon is someone who builds the complete opposite.

I roll people who go glass cannon and I enjoy that there is that aspect. Cause they think, 1 shot to down this guardian, and I just keep smashing them in the face with my 2h hammer

Arkiels.9016:

What im saying is, the counter to a glass cannon is someone who builds the complete opposite.

I roll people who go glass cannon and I enjoy that there is that aspect. Cause they think, 1 shot to down this guardian, and I just keep smashing them in the face with my 2h hammer

I agree, I enjoy a more balanced build as well, I prefer not to be that squishy :P But my point still remains, I enjoy longer fights.

The only annoying thing about KS is when it is done with quickness up, because that makes it very hard to dodge.

But that’s a problem with quickness, not a problem with KS. Quickness needs to be removed from the game entirely or severely nerfed.

Scissors is an overpowered jerk. Everyone should be as well-balanced as Rock is.

Love,
Paper

Team BattleAxe, I was just about to make that point in regards to kill shot. Thieves and warriors are extremely strong which is why they tend to compare themselves to one another most of the time.

Going back to downed state: how much damage does your throw rock do?

This is something that is being left out. I’ve had warriors tossing little rocks at me for more damage than I can do with my weapons. Average damage being done was 900 per hit. But, that may have been an exceptional situation for some reason.

He did all that and you still beat him so…. Nerf necros you mean?

To be honest, I’ve never noticed the damage on Throw Rock. I’ve yet to actually have it save my life or kill anything outside of PvE. For WvW, I’m usually just trying to stall until Vengeance pops up and I can attempt to take a couple of you kittens down with me.

Could be I’m just terrible at playing from a downed state :P