Guild Wars 2

I always find people standing on walls or running uselessly about inside the tower amusing, crying about the gate or wall being destroyed, doing nothing about it at all, and then uselessly dieing when the zerg breaks in or waiting until it breaks in and then map travelling. Why are people so afraid of their toon dieing?

Don’t stand waving at the attackers- get together, push out, ignore all the players and the damage and HIT THE SEIGE. Sure, you’ll die, but you will have taken a chunk of HP from the siege and might even destroy some of it, which might give your server time to rally a defence.

If you’re completely outmanned and there is no chance of either rescue or being able to hold it (no trebs/def siege/etc built as no one could be bothered, but plenty cry about their being no siege when they run to the blob battle), then leave straight away- your only reason for staying is maybe getting a couple bags from lucky ac shots or points for defending. Run off with your team (you are at least in a team, right?) and go attack something of theirs, be it a camp or a tower (5 people can cap a t3 tower if they don’t get back to defend, and even if they do, you might use up 200 supplies from their tower when they repair the gate).

Try placing supply traps near paths, etc and drain their zerg of supplies.

And of course zoom ‘exploiters’ will wipe out your siege, or just plain old eles, which is as it should be- defenders should not be able to fire on attackers without any chance of being hit themselves, although this could use a little tweaking, especially when the defenders are very heavily outnumbered.

Victory.2879:

I always find people standing on walls or running uselessly about inside the tower amusing, crying about the gate or wall being destroyed, doing nothing about it at all, and then uselessly dieing when the zerg breaks in or waiting until it breaks in and then map travelling. Why are people so afraid of their toon dieing?

Don’t stand waving at the attackers- get together, push out, ignore all the players and the damage and HIT THE SEIGE. Sure, you’ll die, but you will have taken a chunk of HP from the siege and might even destroy some of it, which might give your server time to rally a defence.

If you’re completely outmanned and there is no chance of either rescue or being able to hold it (no trebs/def siege/etc built as no one could be bothered, but plenty cry about their being no siege when they run to the blob battle), then leave straight away- your only reason for staying is maybe getting a couple bags from lucky ac shots or points for defending. Run off with your team (you are at least in a team, right?) and go attack something of theirs, be it a camp or a tower (5 people can cap a t3 tower if they don’t get back to defend, and even if they do, you might use up 200 supplies from their tower when they repair the gate).

Try placing supply traps near paths, etc and drain their zerg of supplies.

And of course zoom ‘exploiters’ will wipe out your siege, or just plain old eles, which is as it should be- defenders should not be able to fire on attackers without any chance of being hit themselves, although this could use a little tweaking, especially when the defenders are very heavily outnumbered.

I remember when I was stuck inside a besieged tower and the enemy had set up a trebuchet and some catapults. I am a warrior so I used our elite skill “Rampage” and went to destroy the trebuchet. I destroyed it, and one catapult before I died. 5 people ran out behind me and took out the last catapult. Safe to say that the tactic you are suggesting is totally worth it. As we bought enough time for reinforcements to come and defend the tower.

Chris.3290:

I think everyone is missing the true scandal here. A keep in the possession of Yak’s Bend was not sieged up to the max.

I’m sure this will come up in server-wide meetings where there will be acrimony and accusations about why there were not at least 5 arrow carts already in place on that wall.

Nah the main reason that keep was lost was because Emory Bay isn’t in this matchup

Esprit Dumort.3109:

Because of that, we have servers who are perma-Outmanned and servers with 5 hour queues.

Anyone who waits in a 5 hour queue is an idiot

Like others have said, people staying on a wall doing nothing at all irritate me. Your puny little body will do nothing if you don’t figure out something to stall them.

And using a cata makes their zerg even more vulnerable : sacrifice yourself. They can’t heal a cata, just jump down and destroy it.
Have enough supplies ? Build sup ACs (stop with regular ACs, it’s useless) out of their way and destroy them as soon as they step in because a lot of them are going to rush straight to the lord. And if they want to head for the ACs, they are going to have to get up the stairs and you can get them there.
And if you build even more sup ACs behind your first line of sup ACs, you can kill those players attacking the first line. Also don’t build your siege so close someone can AoE a bunch at the same time.
Have guardians, elementalists and necromancers slow the attacking force rushing in. “But what about stability ?” say hello to Null Field and Well of Corruption.

In your case you had no supplies and 22 players around. You should have jumped down to destroy the catas. You could have even all left for your BL to get supplies, come back and build siege to defend lord room.

Wild.3847:

ouch, no supply in keep and WP almost done.

was gunna harp on this too…but realized they’re fighting sbi….wait…they’re red….wait…your on yb…i’m on yb….THAT’S OUR KEEP! DEFEND IT WITH YOU LIFE! I’M STUCK AT WORK AND CAN’T HELP!

RedStar.4218:

Like others have said, people staying on a wall doing nothing at all irritate me. Your puny little body will do nothing if you don’t figure out something to stall them.

And using a cata makes their zerg even more vulnerable : sacrifice yourself. They can’t heal a cata, just jump down and destroy it.
Have enough supplies ? Build sup ACs (stop with regular ACs, it’s useless) out of their way and destroy them as soon as they step in because a lot of them are going to rush straight to the lord. And if they want to head for the ACs, they are going to have to get up the stairs and you can get them there.
And if you build even more sup ACs behind your first line of sup ACs, you can kill those players attacking the first line. Also don’t build your siege so close someone can AoE a bunch at the same time.
Have guardians, elementalists and necromancers slow the attacking force rushing in. “But what about stability ?” say hello to Null Field and Well of Corruption.

In your case you had no supplies and 22 players around. You should have jumped down to destroy the catas. You could have even all left for your BL to get supplies, come back and build siege to defend lord room.

You think we haven’t done it? In case you don’t know there was entire map zerg under the wall too, we got melted before we could even do anything to their sieg

as far as building goes, GL getting anything up when walls are permanently under masive aoe attacks

i find it really funny how you say don’t build sieg where it can be AoE’d… well NO kitten WATSON, that is what topic is about… in many towers/keeeps there is NO decent place to put sieg w/o it being either completely useless or getting destroyed by enemy aoe

UrMom.4205:

Wild.3847:

ouch, no supply in keep and WP almost done.

was gunna harp on this too…but realized they’re fighting sbi….wait…they’re red….wait…your on yb…i’m on yb….THAT’S OUR KEEP! DEFEND IT WITH YOU LIFE! I’M STUCK AT WORK AND CAN’T HELP!

calm down, it was last week lol
we omega rushed their crap today and papered all their t3 which again proved how weak defense is in this game

Just put 3 ac behind the gate/wall and aoe when they push. 20 players is enoug to take them. gg easy lootbags. Np thank me later..

Wanderer.3248:

johnnymiller.5968:

So you take away the ability for the attacking side to aoe the wall which of course provides a massive advantage to the defending side as they can sit on the wall doing lots of aoe damage as well as all the damage from ac’s, ballista’s etc. Then people come here complaining about how impossible it is for the attacking side. If any player should be able to aoe a wall it should be a ranger considering they carry a long bow.

Ranger bows are one of the worst weapons on walls (as attacker or defender). Axe usually works better than bow.

Find the long bow works well, especially with a good sigil. Yet to try axes against wall defenders.
Trebs are good defensive weapons if placed right. Good for destroying siege, poisoning ememy & stripping away their supplies plus anyone with mastery also has the water heal option which can be advantageous for there own players.

Your siege placement is bad. And you had more than enough people there to clump up and smash the siege.

If you didn’t want to do that, you also had enough people to have manned a proper set of lord-room siege. Let the Zerg breach, and then farm them.

All of this should have been in place and kept refreshed before the attack ever began.

I’m saying this as gently and politely as possible, when I say it is a learn to play issue for your server.

Basharic.1654:

Your siege placement is bad. And you had more than enough people there to clump up and smash the siege.

If you didn’t want to do that, you also had enough people to have manned a proper set of lord-room siege. Let the Zerg breach, and then farm them.

All of this should have been in place and kept refreshed before the attack ever began.

I’m saying this as gently and politely as possible, when I say it is a learn to play issue for your server.

this screenshot was just made to show the aoe

as i said before, we lost 3 t3s towers within few min and we had them sieged up pretty good including AC hanging off inner side of the walls and supply hut, cata on door, treb on door and balistas at lord… it all didn’t matter… you are not gonna farm 80 man zerg with few ACs due to class mechanics like invul, before AC does anything to them they will kill your AC and you with it

Cynz.9437:

Basharic.1654:

Your siege placement is bad. And you had more than enough people there to clump up and smash the siege.

If you didn’t want to do that, you also had enough people to have manned a proper set of lord-room siege. Let the Zerg breach, and then farm them.

All of this should have been in place and kept refreshed before the attack ever began.

I’m saying this as gently and politely as possible, when I say it is a learn to play issue for your server.

this screenshot was just made to show the aoe

as i said before, we lost 3 t3s towers within few min and we had them sieged up pretty good including AC hanging off inner side of the walls and supply hut, cata on door, treb on door and balistas at lord… it all didn’t matter… you are not gonna farm 80 man zerg with few ACs due to class mechanics like invul, before AC does anything to them they will kill your AC and you with it

Yeah, YB knows how to siege up a joint so I’m pretty sure it was sieged well.

“Let them breach and farm them.” Lol, yeah right. Fact is 60 vs 20 on that particular wall of Red Keep is a losing fight for the defense. The only thing that could have been done is suicide runs at the catas. And they probably wouldn’t have been successful by the time the wall was breached since no supply. (Or using a cheesy questionable AC quasi exploit in windowed mode. Props for not resorting to that).

This is not a learn to play issue, its a learn to design a game issue. If I’m reading correctly the core issue is about attackers standing on the ground attacking up onto the top of a defensive wall having an easier time of it than defenders standing on top of a defensive wall aiming down. The exact opposite of what one would logically think. Why does that tiny little lip on the wall that’s no taller than my Asura’s ankle block my aim???

Build Siege in concentric layers. On the walls, behind the walls, in the doorways, overhead. Make them pay dearly for the keep, tower etc..

Eles , necros, guardians can buff / cleanse siege operators. Have your warriors drop banners around cruciual siege points. Its a better use of manpower than standing on a wall taking potshots at a teeming zerg.

Yeah, lots of times there is a horde of them, but enough siege manned by a small organized group can make them change their mind and just leave.

i dont know if its hack exploits or what but AoE hitting all the way to the other edge on the back of wall and killing siege there is flat out bullkitten thats why bigger zerg wins 98% of the time because defenders cant use siege

wich is poor design because im sure as heck the developers actually expected attacking players to deploy siege as well you know make wars be all about tactical positioning and coordination

oh btw necro aoe from lich form can hit sieg through the wall as well….

honestly, why does anet ignore this issue? this been brought up many many times

or should we just all xfer to BG and call it a day? oh wait, BG is full

Cynz.9437:

oh btw necro aoe from lich form can hit sieg through the wall as well….

honestly, why does anet ignore this issue? this been brought up many many times

So tell me … what problem HASN’T ANet ignored when it comes to WvW?

Maybe they’re just trying to be consistent ….

Cactus.2710:

Cynz.9437:

oh btw necro aoe from lich form can hit sieg through the wall as well….

honestly, why does anet ignore this issue? this been brought up many many times

So tell me … what problem HASN’T ANet ignored when it comes to WvW?

Maybe they’re just trying to be consistent ….

they buffed warriors and nerfed perma stealth thieves…lol

You do realize that you can build more than arrow carts and ballistas for defensive siege right? Catapults and trebuchets make fantastic defensive siege if used properly (especially when you wipe all of their supply with the treb or bounce them off the ram with the cata). If done right, you can hold a group 3-4 times your size with well placed siege. Hell, I was in a group of 10 in Hills that held off an attacking force of 40 with a handful of siege on inner.

Lol. = < 3rd tier problem.

Mike.5193:

You do realize that you can build more than arrow carts and ballistas for defensive siege right? Catapults and trebuchets make fantastic defensive siege if used properly (especially when you wipe all of their supply with the treb or bounce them off the ram with the cata). If done right, you can hold a group 3-4 times your size with well placed siege. Hell, I was in a group of 10 in Hills that held off an attacking force of 40 with a handful of siege on inner.

that assuming they actually bother attacking the gate, catas won’t work on omegas

Quells.2498:

Lol. = < 3rd tier problem.

i have played on SoR, they had same issue…. your point?

My point I guess is that I would hope everyone who plays on a T2 or higher knows better places to put siege but apparently I’m wrong.

Quells.2498:

My point I guess is that I would hope everyone who plays on a T2 or higher knows better places to put siege but apparently I’m wrong.

I’m on a fairly low tier server I think and I figured out where not to put siege after I placed the first arrow cart and it got destroyed by the first meteor storm. Once you figure out where not to put siege, there really isn’t any question about where you can put it, since the spots are pretty obvious. People are just stupid and don’t understand the message AoE circles are giving out.

Cynz.9437:

i find it really funny how you say don’t build sieg where it can be AoE’d… well NO kitten WATSON, that is what topic is about… in many towers/keeeps there is NO decent place to put sieg w/o it being either completely useless or getting destroyed by enemy aoe

Did you even read all of it or just wanted to respond quickly ?

I’m not going to draw you a picture because I don’t have the time for this, but they were attacking east wall. I told you to build ACs on north wall, which is bigger and harder to hit and also completely out of their way. Once they break down the wall and rush in, you can kill them with AC.

If you actually read my post, you would have realized that I meant to not build siege clumped up together.

And you couldn’t jump down ? Most profession have so many invulnerability skills they could easily jump down and take away the catas health little by little. Don’t expect great results at first, but siege can’t regen so it’s better than standing around doing nothing.

Walls should be higher. They don’t really offer much benefit otherwise with how easy it is to put that aoe on top of the wall and burn down the siege. Some places on the wall is more difficult to burn the siege but they are few and very far between.

Walls being higher would make it even harder for defenders, as your range from the top would be even worse than it already is.

All that’s required to “fix” “defending” is allow people on top of the wall to ignore line of sight with their skills. On more than half of all the walls, I need to jump onto the border barricade that would prevent the enemy from pulling me down, to cast aoes under the wall. Meanwhile, the enemy can easily cast aoes on top.

I play an ele and I can jump out of most towers once gates/walls are down, and cast aoes from outside onto walls+bridges+lord room in perfect safety, dealing tons of damage and getting tons of bags, while the other 5 people inside will just die to the zerg and do nothing of value.

Ed: Hell, even if we have our own zerg in the tower, I sometimes jump out and cast aoes and heals from outside, not having to worry about my health at all.

The walls are fine. There’s plenty of places to put siege where it can’t be hit but regardless how ridiculous is it to suggest that you should be able to attack the enemy but not vice versa?

It’s stupid to suggest that. What’s even sillier, however, is that I can’t aoe people under the wall, while they certainly can aoe me. I don’t really see it as a huge problem, but I do find it stupid.

The walls are not fine. Nobody said anything about not being able to attack the enemy. Its been mentioned since launch. It is easier for the attackers to hit up to the top of the wall than it is for the defenders in a defensive position to hit aiming down from their defensive position.

Assbackwards. But who knows, it might be worse the other way. Could make it too hard to take a structure. But its still frustrating.

But its not going to change so just learn to live with it. Hate the game not the gamer.

Johje Holan.4607:

The walls are not fine. Nobody said anything about not being able to attack the enemy. Its been mentioned since launch. It is easier for the attackers to hit up to the top of the wall than it is for the defenders in a defensive position to hit aiming down from their defensive position.

Assbackwards. But who knows, it might be worse the other way. Could make it too hard to take a structure. But its still frustrating.

But its not going to change so just learn to live with it. Hate the game not the gamer.

Add to the fact that you will get pulled off the wall down into the zerg and roflstomped. Maybe the defenders should be able to do that also. Pull someone up to their zerg.

Because of everything listed it seems counter productive when defending to wait until the attackers break IN before fighting back.

How is YB complaining about this.

I’ve seen mutilple occasions where 2-3 pieces of siege make a whole zerg back off before they even lay down rams/catas/etc.

And there are placements in every tower/keep where the aoe reach from attackers is very low, taking a lot of casting to get the arrow carts down, and by that time you should of killed the squishy range classes