Guild Wars 2

Camp supervisors should go up in difficulty as a camp goes up in tier. tier 1 would be an elite supervisor. tier 2 would be a champ supervisor and tier 3 would be a champ supervisor with the rest of npcs being elites. it’s too easy for people to run in circles and solo flip camps over and over. Servers would be more interested in getting camps to higher tiers If they didn’t have to flip it back over and over because of solo “flippers”. What do you think ?

Considering it’s one of the few things you can do on your own, no thanks. I wouldn’t be opposed to making the supervisers more powerful, but the idea of an entire camp of elites… naw.

Nah… You would end up promoting more zerging and less roaming. There is already barely anything for roamers to do. Making camps impossible to flip will just be another nail to that coffin.

At best put the extra guards upgrade on the first tier. That already make a camp annoying enough to solo and give time to anyone interested to run there and defend against 1-2 people.

Once a camp hits T2, it becomes really tedious to clear. In EBG a T2 camp with mercenaries will probably be ignored as too tedious.

At least solo.

Why propose a change to something that’s been around from the start, and roamers and small havocs enjoy doing?

And what’s wrong with solo roamers taking camps?

Too many changes lately to WvW, so no thanks.

Leave us solo guys n gals alone.

The reason so many people prefer ABL’s over DBL’s is because you can play solo/havoc/roam/scout on the ABL’s. The map doesn’t force you into a single play style (Zerg Train).

I am assuming you are coming from “I’m running in a romp-n-stomp zerg, we just flipped that camp, and some solo enemy just took it back, I’m so mad, nerf it!”

Ideally, a zerg should be leaving a couple extra zerglings at each camp to dissuade solo roamers, and those guards can still be granted participation so they don’t lose out by just standing there. If you want the camps to upgrade, you have to guard them. That’s too boring? Well, the life of any real soldier or law enforcement officer is 90% boredom followed by 10% SHTF adrenaline rush.

Don’t agree your idea. It would destroy the only effective game play that counter zergs, which is to split up and simultaneously take objectives with small or solo groups.

The only way I’d be fine upscaled camps is as they are in their current itteration (they go up in difficulty as the camps/objective upgrades) or increases the difficulty/scale of them mobs based on the amount of players attacking the objective. Meaning more players more mobs, slower ktrain less empassis on blob play.

Also there should be a rare easter egg where if the entire population of a bl shows up at and objective it should spawn the all mighty legend MO him self, who proceeds smacks the lot of them with his mighty hammer. Which causes insane amounts of skill lag and mass d/c’s.

Camps and NPC’s are fine. They should, however, send notifications to the guild responsible for claiming. Already said also by others but camps and mercenaries are a good thing for solo players to maintain while leaving the larger force to focus on other things. Not to mention it gives them something to do while scouting.

Soon.5240:

The reason so many people prefer ABL’s over DBL’s is because you can play solo/havoc/roam/scout on the ABL’s. The map doesn’t force you into a single play style (Zerg Train).

Honestly, DBL had much more solo objectives than ABL. After the removal of the barricades among other changes made in april, I’d say DBL became more solo-friendly than ABL.

My guess is either
A) You’re bored – Try soloing a tower or perhaps a keep
B) You slapped a claim on a camp, you upgraded a camp, you did something to a camp and the same pita soloists keep Flippin your stuff – it’s annoying, but less annoying now than it was a year ago, move on.
Or
C) You want to kill the last remaining art form this world has left.

As it is now, you have TOPS 4 mins to solo a T3 camp without being run over by either the third enemy zerg or the defense enemy zerg. And even 4 mins isn’t enough time if you happen to be on a not so high damage toon.

People asked for tower supervisors to be meaner, and now we can barely solo a tower anymore before some group of karma hungry enemies come prancing in through the hole in the wall that we made.

Leave the camps alone!

Firstly, the OP is entitled to an opinion.

In response to the what do I think question;

I am chiefly a WvW player, but not a ZvZ player. I tend to roam/scout or flip camps to get a response from the enemy defenders. I do not like the idea proposed by the OP but would like to know WHY the idea was proposed before posting against it.

If soloers like myself are offending others by flipping camps I would like to know how I can lessen their loss of enjoyment.

elkirin.8534:

If soloers like myself are offending others by flipping camps I would like to know how I can lessen their loss of enjoyment.

I’d like to know how I can kitten them off more.

Camps are intended for small groups or solo people. This totally defeats the purpose and the game mode has plenty of blob friendly mechanics.

If you don’t want people flipping camps, then defend them. Or attack whoever’s attacking them instead of relying on NPCs.

Jim Hunter.6821:

elkirin.8534:

If soloers like myself are offending others by flipping camps I would like to know how I can lessen their loss of enjoyment.

I’d like to know how I can kitten them off more.

Lol – well said.

I personally don’t think a solo player should be able to easily take a camp, at least make it a bit harder. Sorry solo players but gw2 is a group game. Just my opinion.

Aileras.9460:

I personally don’t think a solo player should be able to easily take a camp, at least make it a bit harder. Sorry solo players but gw2 is a group game. Just my opinion.

Hmm…when I login I’m not in a group. In fact, I seem to recall earlier that I wasn’t in a group until I accepted or initiated invite.

It isn’t a requirement.

- A person should be able to help their server
- A party should be able to help their server
- A guild should be able to help their server
- A squad should be able to help their server

All these guys play WvW. None are superior to the other. None should be forced to play in anyway they choose not to. The only time that even comes to play… is in guild recruitment. You can say ‘no, sry your a lazy rallybot, application denied’ to recruit and play with those guys you want to be the hard core composition of your squad.

Crapgame.6519:

Aileras.9460:

I personally don’t think a solo player should be able to easily take a camp, at least make it a bit harder. Sorry solo players but gw2 is a group game. Just my opinion.

Hmm…when I login I’m not in a group. In fact, I seem to recall earlier that I wasn’t in a group until I accepted or initiated invite.

It isn’t a requirement.

Ok group wasn’t the right word I guess. It’s a multiplayer game and wvw is a multiplayer aspect of that game. I’m not saying it should be impossible to take a camp solo, it just needs to take a little more work. If it didn’t effect scoring then I would be fine with it, but it does and one persons actions shouldn’t have that big an effect on a whole map full of players.

NPC AI and skill set could be improved.

I still don’t know why we haven’t seen “don’t stand in aoe for more than 3sec” implemented like it was in gw1 10years ago because everything was being solo aoe farmed.

Create a third camp NPC that always spawns with lord, guard and scout and give the npcs full weapon skill sets and a couple utilities:

Camp Lord, make guardian with sword/shield, shelter and purging flames.

Veteran Guards, axe/shield, mending, “for great justice!” and bolas.

Veteran Scout, sword/pistol, withdraw and ice Drake leeching aura venom share..

Veteran Skirmisher, shortbow, water spirit and lightning reflexes, attempts to maintain 300 or more distance from target.

I don’t think they should make camps harder by adding more npcs or increasing thier toughness/vita, but they could atleast make them respectable opponents.

I’m mostly a roamer and I wouldn’t mind if the camps were bumped up in difficulty a bit. But no where near what the OP was proposing. HoT made our characters more powerful, but the NPCs in WvW didn’t get scaled up to match. So, they’re due for a buff – something like 20% more damage and 20% more health and Supervisor gets some boons (?).

Give the dolyaks superspeed and knockbacks to boot. It’d be funny seeing the dolyaks chasing a guy, with say the bola’s melee npc’s, while some of the the npc’s stayed away/ ranging.

EDIT: I hate the blindbots… just my 2 cents

Aileras.9460:

Crapgame.6519:

Aileras.9460:

I personally don’t think a solo player should be able to easily take a camp, at least make it a bit harder. Sorry solo players but gw2 is a group game. Just my opinion.

Hmm…when I login I’m not in a group. In fact, I seem to recall earlier that I wasn’t in a group until I accepted or initiated invite.

It isn’t a requirement.

Ok group wasn’t the right word I guess. It’s a multiplayer game and wvw is a multiplayer aspect of that game. I’m not saying it should be impossible to take a camp solo, it just needs to take a little more work. If it didn’t effect scoring then I would be fine with it, but it does and one persons actions shouldn’t have that big an effect on a whole map full of players.

One person taking a camp is not one persons actions having a big effect on a whole map of players. Its a whole map full of players choosing not to keep an eye on their camps, sentries or towers. That solo can only take your shineys IF YOU CHOOSE TO LET HIM.

The OP has explained why it’s frustrating to see camps flip — and indeed it is — but they haven’t explained why it improves WvW if flipping becomes harder.

If commanders on the map can’t be bothered to defend their own supply chain, I don’t think the camps should get a free, huge defensive buff. Guilds can already claim camps to buff them and (if the guild owns the improvements) make them harder to cap.

tl;dr no, thank you

Aileras.9460:

Crapgame.6519:

Aileras.9460:

I personally don’t think a solo player should be able to easily take a camp, at least make it a bit harder. Sorry solo players but gw2 is a group game. Just my opinion.

Hmm…when I login I’m not in a group. In fact, I seem to recall earlier that I wasn’t in a group until I accepted or initiated invite.

It isn’t a requirement.

Ok group wasn’t the right word I guess. It’s a multiplayer game and wvw is a multiplayer aspect of that game. I’m not saying it should be impossible to take a camp solo, it just needs to take a little more work. If it didn’t effect scoring then I would be fine with it, but it does and one persons actions shouldn’t have that big an effect on a whole map full of players.

Think about the current score for killing an enemy player…2 points, same as 1 tick each 5 minutes for a camp. They’ve made it so that a camp really isn’t worth as much. You could go around and kill an enemy player every 5 minutes and accomplish the same thing. So if you see solo players out there fighting, they could be affecting the score as much if not more than by flipping a camp.

Justine.6351:

NPC AI and skill set could be improved.

I still don’t know why we haven’t seen “don’t stand in aoe for more than 3sec” implemented like it was in gw1 10years ago because everything was being solo aoe farmed.

Create a third camp NPC that always spawns with lord, guard and scout and give the npcs full weapon skill sets and a couple utilities:

Camp Lord, make guardian with sword/shield, shelter and purging flames.

Veteran Guards, axe/shield, mending, “for great justice!” and bolas.

Veteran Scout, sword/pistol, withdraw and ice Drake leeching aura venom share..

Veteran Skirmisher, shortbow, water spirit and lightning reflexes, attempts to maintain 300 or more distance from target.

I don’t think they should make camps harder by adding more npcs or increasing thier toughness/vita, but they could atleast make them respectable opponents.

Would actually like to see some variety in the npc’s, different types and skill sets and what not. All npc’s should have 1+ aoe’s, otherwise they’re more annoying the less players fighting them, and less annoying the more players.

Especially would love to see the AI’s used in the PVP training dummies, just tweak them with a few more aoe skills. Really like them, and would love to see them used in more places of the game.

Jerus.4350:

Considering it’s one of the few things you can do on your own, no thanks.

Say no to more blobbing.

To the people suggesting new NPCs, remember that a lot of people hated the new NPCs on DBL. You still will hear hate cries…

But honestly, just leave the camps as they are. Zerglets must learn to defend their holdings if they want to keep them. Maybe change the camps to pop swords as soon as the attack starts oposed to the current 30s that is applied to tower/keeps.

Jeknar.6184:

To the people suggesting new NPCs, remember that a lot of people hated the new NPCs on DBL. You still will hear hate cries…

But honestly, just leave the camps as they are. Zerglets must learn to defend their holdings if they want to keep them. Maybe change the camps to pop swords as soon as the attack starts oposed to the current 30s that is applied to tower/keeps.

Other issue with BL replacement maps was the sheer size. It was very difficult for the bottom half of the server population to cover. Upper tier probably not has bad, but mid pack and lower, forget it. Amon other things like the NPC’s use and others noted.

Camps are fine – people just need to understand map awareness. If it is really impacting their score, and making a difference, then they have issues. Because every server has roamers.

I don’t think some of you realize just how fast a non-upgraded camp can be flipped by even a solo roamer. There are even a few builds that put out enough dmg upfront to kill the npcs and flip it just as the swords pop.

I don’t think some of you realize just how trivial camp npcs are currently. It’s completely possible to ignore a camp full of npcs and kill the person defending it while they are in the middle of it.

I don’t think they need MOAR DMG/ MOAR VITA & ARMOR but they certainly could use a skill-set update.

i can flip a T3 camp by standing still and swinging GS #1 and use 2 of my utilities (stances)… yeah its way too easy right now.. but camps shouldnt take much longer (a bit is ok though), they should be much stronger! a T3 camp wont even protect someone from me when i want their head, their damage is tiny.. camps need to do actual damage. the only thing you have to keep an eye on there are the blinds from the scouts.

IMO just add 2 more veteran guards -> 1 more for T1, 1 more for T3. and raise overall guard damage by 25%

Believe it or not some builds on some classes can’t solo camps. And some camps have NPC’s to help as well. Jus leave it as it is pls

I’m worried that posts like this will result in more NPC buffs. There needs to be a fair trade-off between risk and reward. If objectives get too many buffs, I feel it will drive solo roamers away from this game mode.

In my option, the worst suggestion I have been seeing on this forum is to make capturing an objective impossible without a set number of players. Imagine what that would do to players who prefer to solo roam or normally play during periods of low activity.

Justine.6351:

I don’t think some of you realize just how fast a non-upgraded camp can be flipped by even a solo roamer. There are even a few builds that put out enough dmg upfront to kill the npcs and flip it just as the swords pop.

I don’t think some of you realize just how trivial camp npcs are currently. It’s completely possible to ignore a camp full of npcs and kill the person defending it while they are in the middle of it.

I don’t think they need MOAR DMG/ MOAR VITA & ARMOR but they certainly could use a skill-set update.

I knew I wasn’t fast at flipping camps, but I figured getting it done in about 2 minutes was decent enough. Didn’t realize others can get it done so much quicker

On topic, I do think that camps could be upgraded a bit better. Especially because veteran players have that extra 20% damage to and 20% less damage received from guards, camps are pretty trivial. But at the same time, buffing any camp to pose a challenge to veteran players (with their higher skill level and the WvW traits they get) would make them much too difficult for newer players who don’t yet have those traits unlocked.

I think that really all you need is the supervisor should be changed into an elite mob at T3, and the Quartermaster should be a veteran starting at T2. Its just a small buff but I think that its just what camps need.

Justine.6351:

I don’t think some of you realize just how fast a non-upgraded camp can be flipped by even a solo roamer. There are even a few builds that put out enough dmg upfront to kill the npcs and flip it just as the swords pop.

I don’t think some of you realize just how trivial camp npcs are currently. It’s completely possible to ignore a camp full of npcs and kill the person defending it while they are in the middle of it.

I don’t think they need MOAR DMG/ MOAR VITA & ARMOR but they certainly could use a skill-set update.

I realize exactly how easy it is. And again, I disagree that it’s a problem. It’s up the the players on the map to actively defend their supply chains from active attacks.

Not everyone is at 100% for wvw. Some people like newer ones or pvers’s are only able to kill sentries or flip camps. If you make camps harder, they may leave wvw or not stick around long enough to learn how to do it. Plus some roamers do stuff solo because no one is around or they are doing other stuff.

Steelo.4597:

i can flip a T3 camp by standing still and swinging GS #1 and use 2 of my utilities (stances)… yeah its way too easy right now.. but camps shouldnt take much longer (a bit is ok though), they should be much stronger! a T3 camp wont even protect someone from me when i want their head, their damage is tiny.. camps need to do actual damage. the only thing you have to keep an eye on there are the blinds from the scouts.

IMO just add 2 more veteran guards -> 1 more for T1, 1 more for T3. and raise overall guard damage by 25%

There is a reason of why warriors were pve meta in the past, and it’s exactly because they can just stand still and 100blades pve creatures. The same applies to camps. You can stand there and facetank everything while barely taking damage while other professions don’t have the same capability..

Jeknar.6184:

Steelo.4597:

i can flip a T3 camp by standing still and swinging GS #1 and use 2 of my utilities (stances)… yeah its way too easy right now.. but camps shouldnt take much longer (a bit is ok though), they should be much stronger! a T3 camp wont even protect someone from me when i want their head, their damage is tiny.. camps need to do actual damage. the only thing you have to keep an eye on there are the blinds from the scouts.

IMO just add 2 more veteran guards -> 1 more for T1, 1 more for T3. and raise overall guard damage by 25%

There is a reason of why warriors were pve meta in the past, and it’s exactly because they can just stand still and 100blades pve creatures. The same applies to camps. You can stand there and facetank everything while barely taking damage while other professions don’t have the same capability..

Still pretty simple with a lot of them. Engi is what i usually bring, and I’ll just LOS around a corner, drop a blind field and follow with a burst of all my high damage abilities which wipes out most all the trash and I finish off the supervisor. Necro is quite similar though no need for blind just drop the wells and RS up.

Anyways, yeah it’s pretty easy, but why shouldn’t it be? This is WvW not PVE, want your camp defended, do it, don’t rely on PVE mobs. There’s a reason why last reset we had a blob of half the map walking yaks and defending camps, we wanted our Keep and SMC waypointed by the end of the night so we made it happen.

Ok, lot’s of to and fro comments.

basically if camps were not soloable, how many new players would we gain? How many players would we lose? ( from the mode)

If camps are left as is, how many new players would we gain? how many would we lose?

elkirin.8534:

Ok, lot’s of to and fro comments.

basically if camps were not soloable, how many new players would we gain? How many players would we lose? ( from the mode)

If camps are left as is, how many new players would we gain? how many would we lose?

There’s another issue. Increasing the numerical requirements to get something done in WvW favors the servers with greater numbers. These servers don’t need this advantage. They already have more people to do scouting, more people to herd in camp defense and are more likely to have WP’s close to the camp to get that herd where it wants to go.

Completely agree that we shouldn’t remove any content that is soloable, there need to be targets that can be taken solo.

That said, I don’t mind making those fights a bit more interesting (with more variety and better AI’s etc). And making upgraded camps harder, I’d say that is fair. But keep the base camps fairly easy.

For my part, I don’t really want more guards, but would like to see the guards be a bit more interesting than the same 2 bola charrs and blind shot bandits over and over. Would like to see some more variety, more different guards, a bit more random which one you meet, and have them work together better/more. And give them all some AOE’s so they can actually hurt you for bunching up.

Just using the extra guards (Zealot and Ritualist for ex) that comes with upgraded camps and randomize them in with the old two for all camps etc would be more interesting. Best of all, use the PvP training dummies, they’re much more fun to fight against, randomize some 3-4 of those as camp defenders. At least I’d be having some fun if people don’t want to fight.

Dude I had several guys hardcore bantering me because I was defending a camp successfully for 3 hours straight. 2 guys came back every time they got killed, and complained that I’m defending. I asked why, the just want the camp to farm, and said I’m a terrible inhuman being and my mom has a special job in hell. Like seriously? I didnt know what to say.

I defend camps all the time. When roaming people come to defend camps I’m attacking all the time. I don’t fault them for it, it’s part of the game. It also keeps things interesting because there’s always a risk I’m getting in way over my head.

I don’t think the OP wants to change the base camp, just the upgraded versions. Solo flipping base camps is something that should stick around (though the swords delay is too long). Given the time and effort needed to get a camp up a tier, though, it would make sense if it made them take more than a few seconds longer to flip.

A tier 1 camp should still be soloable by a strong roamer, but perhaps in 90 seconds instead of 30. A tier 2 should take a couple minutes alone and a tier 3 should be a real challenge. Solo players can still keep camps down but they can’t just run up on the north camp that’s been defended for 6 hours and flip it while the home team is in the loo.

Sviel.7493:

I don’t think the OP wants to change the base camp, just the upgraded versions. Solo flipping base camps is something that should stick around (though the swords delay is too long). Given the time and effort needed to get a camp up a tier, though, it would make sense if it made them take more than a few seconds longer to flip.

A tier 1 camp should still be soloable by a strong roamer, but perhaps in 90 seconds instead of 30. A tier 2 should take a couple minutes alone and a tier 3 should be a real challenge. Solo players can still keep camps down but they can’t just run up on the north camp that’s been defended for 6 hours and flip it while the home team is in the loo.

I still don’t agree. A camp that passively reaches Tier 3 shouldn’t have any special advantage. If the team wants to keep the camp, they should defend it.

Buff the quartermaster. That’s it.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Sviel.7493:

I don’t think the OP wants to change the base camp, just the upgraded versions. Solo flipping base camps is something that should stick around (though the swords delay is too long). Given the time and effort needed to get a camp up a tier, though, it would make sense if it made them take more than a few seconds longer to flip.

A tier 1 camp should still be soloable by a strong roamer, but perhaps in 90 seconds instead of 30. A tier 2 should take a couple minutes alone and a tier 3 should be a real challenge. Solo players can still keep camps down but they can’t just run up on the north camp that’s been defended for 6 hours and flip it while the home team is in the loo.

I still don’t agree. A camp that passively reaches Tier 3 shouldn’t have any special advantage. If the team wants to keep the camp, they should defend it.

Did you read his post? They’d still have to.

Camps definitely need to take longer to solo. I remember challenging myself before HoT came out trying to see how fast I could take a camp, and I was able to kill all the camp guards at some camps in under 10 seconds consistently. It’s probably easier now with HoT powercreep. Even keep lords are way too easy to solo right now.

Making them elites and champs wouldn’t actually make them harder, it’d just make them take longer

Cake.4920:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Sviel.7493:

I don’t think the OP wants to change the base camp, just the upgraded versions. Solo flipping base camps is something that should stick around (though the swords delay is too long). Given the time and effort needed to get a camp up a tier, though, it would make sense if it made them take more than a few seconds longer to flip.

A tier 1 camp should still be soloable by a strong roamer, but perhaps in 90 seconds instead of 30. A tier 2 should take a couple minutes alone and a tier 3 should be a real challenge. Solo players can still keep camps down but they can’t just run up on the north camp that’s been defended for 6 hours and flip it while the home team is in the loo.

I still don’t agree. A camp that passively reaches Tier 3 shouldn’t have any special advantage. If the team wants to keep the camp, they should defend it.

Did you read his post? They’d still have to.

Camps definitely need to take longer to solo. I remember challenging myself before HoT came out trying to see how fast I could take a camp, and I was able to kill all the camp guards at some camps in under 10 seconds consistently. It’s probably easier now with HoT powercreep. Even keep lords are way too easy to solo right now.

I prefer camp remain the same, the faster camp filp encounage more wvw activity.

90% of my wvw time i am under outnumbered buff and usually only singled handed count solo roamers playing. We still feel fun because we can solo camp fast and nicely.

If longer time for camp solo filpping, many solo roamer will be gone and low tier server will be more deserted.

To encourage wvw, it is best to encourage solo roaming and small scale battle in order to attract new players to join the mist war.