Guild Wars 2

fishergrip.4082:

Strong condition spam is basically impossible to counter solo no mater how much removal you have. Most skills only remove 1-3 conditions per use and have cooldowns of 20 seconds or longer. In groups condis get a lot easier to deal with due to group cleansing, but it is totally out of control for small fights.

I only play 2 classes at the moment, and my main is an Engineer. My Guardian is level 70 at the moment. Both classes it’s pretty trivial to trait for very good condition removal that does keep up with most application. The problem I see with most people I fight is they use all their condition removal at once instead of spreading it out, or just don’t carry any at all.

I run an HgH Elixir build with 409 traited, the only time I get killed by condition spam is when I’m fighting a Necro and I stop paying attention.

Also, dodge and block are your friends, then you don’t get the condition to remove in the first place.

Tyaen.5148:

fishergrip.4082:

Strong condition spam is basically impossible to counter solo no mater how much removal you have. Most skills only remove 1-3 conditions per use and have cooldowns of 20 seconds or longer. In groups condis get a lot easier to deal with due to group cleansing, but it is totally out of control for small fights.

I only play 2 classes at the moment, and my main is an Engineer. My Guardian is level 70 at the moment. Both classes it’s pretty trivial to trait for very good condition removal that does keep up with most application. The problem I see with most people I fight is they use all their condition removal at once instead of spreading it out, or just don’t carry any at all.

I run an HgH Elixir build with 409 traited, the only time I get killed by condition spam is when I’m fighting a Necro and I stop paying attention.

Also, dodge and block are your friends, then you don’t get the condition to remove in the first place.

Re-application of conditions way outpaces removal for most classes and setups—few have reliable condi removal sustain… though this should be to some degree by design or else condis would do nothing. The dodge and block comment is a bit redundant since those mechanics are used for any type of damage.

fishergrip.4082:

Strong condition spam is basically impossible to counter solo no mater how much removal you have.

And thats bad? If someone builds to do direct-damage you dont expect to mitigate 100% of it. Why is it a problem if you cannot mitigate all conditions? You do realize dd is much weaker with these skills right? And that condition damage is the main source of damage, right?

That’s your idea of balance?

Terrahero.9358:

fishergrip.4082:

Strong condition spam is basically impossible to counter solo no mater how much removal you have.

And thats bad? If someone builds to do direct-damage you dont expect to mitigate 100% of it. Why is it a problem if you cannot mitigate all conditions? You do realize dd is much weaker with these skills right? And that condition damage is the main source of damage, right?

That’s your idea of balance?

Spot on. You don’t have to mitigate it all, just enough to kill your opponent before he kills you.

Tyaen.5148:

Terrahero.9358:

fishergrip.4082:

Strong condition spam is basically impossible to counter solo no mater how much removal you have.

And thats bad? If someone builds to do direct-damage you dont expect to mitigate 100% of it. Why is it a problem if you cannot mitigate all conditions? You do realize dd is much weaker with these skills right? And that condition damage is the main source of damage, right?

That’s your idea of balance?

Spot on. You don’t have to mitigate it all, just enough to kill your opponent before he kills you.

Right but as it stands in terms of itemization, you can literally have the best offensive and defensive stats one each piece of gear with the new Dire Set. Sooo… you are maximizing mitigation while maximizing damage. There needs to be some sacrifice somewhere and I’m just not seeing it.

Bhima.9518:

Tyaen.5148:

Terrahero.9358:

fishergrip.4082:

Strong condition spam is basically impossible to counter solo no mater how much removal you have.

And thats bad? If someone builds to do direct-damage you dont expect to mitigate 100% of it. Why is it a problem if you cannot mitigate all conditions? You do realize dd is much weaker with these skills right? And that condition damage is the main source of damage, right?

That’s your idea of balance?

Spot on. You don’t have to mitigate it all, just enough to kill your opponent before he kills you.

Right but as it stands in terms of itemization, you can literally have the best offensive and defensive stats one each piece of gear with the new Dire Set. Sooo… you are maximizing mitigation while maximizing damage. There needs to be some sacrifice somewhere and I’m just not seeing it.

The sacrifice was that we went a year without the set.

They need to make another stat that’s necessary for conditions to be effective. You need power, precision, and crit damage to make power builds effective. You sacrifice defense for that. You only need 1 stat to make condition builds effective, condition damage. The other 2 stats could be whatever you want. With the new set, condition builds sacrifice absolutely nothing and can max their most important offensive stat AND their defense as well. How is that balanced? I’m seriously beginning to question the intelligence of the balancing team in this game.

Aoena fix
Traveler’s drops will be replaced with the Dire Stat Combo (Condition Damage, Toughness, Vitality)

>.<

Terrahero.9358:

fishergrip.4082:

Strong condition spam is basically impossible to counter solo no mater how much removal you have.

And thats bad? If someone builds to do direct-damage you dont expect to mitigate 100% of it. Why is it a problem if you cannot mitigate all conditions? You do realize dd is much weaker with these skills right? And that condition damage is the main source of damage, right?

That’s your idea of balance?

I never said mitigate 100% of it. And that raises the very problem with condi damage. You can’t mitigate it at all. It always does a fixed amount of damage per tick. All you can do is remove a few condis here and there and maybe try to reduce the duration a bit, which is hardly worth the effort since any condi player will have 50%-100% duration. The main culprit is condi necros, terrormancers in particular, because they can apply and absurd number of conditions very fast and reapply them faster than it is possible to remove them, while spamming CC that also ticks for thousands of damage. If they tone that down and nerf confusion runes, it might be manageable. Introducing a new condi in torment, dhuumfire and confuse runes on top of that is just too much. You can blow 3-4 condi removal skills and still have 3 or more condis left on you.

Amins.3710:

Bhima.9518:

If you thought fighting against condi builds was bad before, just wait till this next patch. They are getting WAAAY better gear itemization with +vit +tough +condi dmg. Seriously, they get all the main tanking stats and relevant dmg stats with one gear type. for a direct damage class to equal this, they would need gear that has +vit +tough +power +crit +crit% dmg. Time to start thinking about condi builds for the 80s you all have.

Yeah, my Condi Guardian’s gunna ROCK!

;_;

sinject.4607:

I’m a pretty dedicated WvW player, and recently I’ve been seeing a massive surge of condition based characters running around. It’s namely necro/engie and they’re near impossible to kill 1v1, or even Xv1 in some cases. This is just like the broken warrior stun chain nonsense; it can be “countered”, but realistically nobody can counter as much as the spam can be inflicted.

The way that condition classes can inflict massive amounts of conditions that put out ridiculously high damage and still be relatively tanky due to their gear and build (carrion/rabid) is flat out overpowered; i can see how anet intended it to work but at this point the mechanic is broken. You can read up on the various other issues this current meta is causing on the PvP subforums to get a good idea from people who know what they’re talking about.

This isn’t a matter of “l2p” (the classic sign of someone defending something that’s broken and they play it) because there’s nothing that counters this at all. Lemongrass? Expensive and countered by Pizza. Lyssa/Melandru Runes? Pigeonhole you into being too specifically anti-condition while not being powerful enough to be worth it. Cleansing? Hardly anything can cleanse as fast as the conditions are re-inflicted.

The fact that your character needs to be defined specifically to one role be even slightly effective against the condition meta is enough to know this needs to be altered.

Necro/engie/ranger meta builds need some serious looking at and conditions need to be fixed (necro ESPECIALLY). Simple as that.

And to boot my character isn’t even a glass cannon. 18k hp, decent toughness, full exotics etc.

The game is pretty much unplayable atm if you want to roam in wvw. Anywhere you go its rune of perplexity spam thieves, warriors, mesmers and engies. Getting old very fast.

To me it is a matter of L2P, you can avoid the red circles like I do you know?. My necro is full condition, I do have a lot a dmg on conditions and can endure a lot of damage, but 1vs1 or any situation I face alone, im dead. Also theres so many condition removal out there, its nearly impossible to kill some1 that KNOW how to play and counter this. WvW is meant for us to work as a group, if you wanna 1vs1 sPvP is waiting for you.
Dear Anet, please keep in mind, the builds we do in our toons are results of hard work and dedication. Every time you nerf a class you seryously spoil the fun and make a lot of us just lose interest in keep playing. Stop the nerfing and make improvements in other classes to counter if you feel its necessary.
If I have to change all my gear( ascended is very hard and boring to get) and/or change class one more time because ppl demand a nerf for pure lack of skill to deal with skilled players, Im just gonna stop supporting this game, wont buy any gems and just gonna move on. This is gone to far and we have a lot of issues that should come 1st like this trolls trowing siege and caping all over our keeps and towers and making impossible to upgrade properly. Thank you.

Voicer.8239:

To me it is a matter of L2P, you can avoid the red circles like I do you know?. My necro is full condition, I do have a lot a dmg on conditions and can endure a lot of damage, but 1vs1 or any situation I face alone, im dead. Also theres so many condition removal out there, its nearly impossible to kill some1 that KNOW how to play and counter this. WvW is meant for us to work as a group, if you wanna 1vs1 sPvP is waiting for you.
Dear Anet, please keep in mind, the builds we do in our toons are results of hard work and dedication. Every time you nerf a class you seryously spoil the fun and make a lot of us just lose interest in keep playing. Stop the nerfing and make improvements in other classes to counter if you feel its necessary.
If I have to change all my gear( ascended is very hard and boring to get) and/or change class one more time because ppl demand a nerf for pure lack of skill to deal with skilled players, Im just gonna stop supporting this game, wont buy any gems and just gonna move on. This is gone to far and we have a lot of issues that should come 1st like this trolls trowing siege and caping all over our keeps and towers and making impossible to upgrade properly. Thank you.

You must be a really bad condi necro if you can’t win most 1v1s. You can’t avoid necro staff circles because you are hit by them before they appear and oftentimes they are also unblockable. Unskilled/biased players always want to cling to overpowered mechanics as long as possible, but after the nerfs come the game will be better for it. Does anyone thing omnom pies should still have no inner CD? That confuse should still do PvE damage in WvW? That retal should do 50% more damage? No. Because all that stuff was stupid op, just like a number of issues currently plaguing the game that have all been caused poorly conceived changes Anet has pushed out over the past several months.

Terrahero.9358:

fishergrip.4082:

Strong condition spam is basically impossible to counter solo no mater how much removal you have.

And thats bad? If someone builds to do direct-damage you dont expect to mitigate 100% of it. Why is it a problem if you cannot mitigate all conditions? You do realize dd is much weaker with these skills right? And that condition damage is the main source of damage, right?

That’s your idea of balance?

Aye, but if they build 100% direct damage, they go down FAST. Thats not the case with condi builds, however.

Voicer.8239:

To me it is a matter of L2P, you can avoid the red circles like I do you know?

What are you talking about? You can’t avoid red circles because a necro waves his hand in the air and they appear at your feet and you’re hit with it instantly. No way of avoiding the damage. You click one signet and almost every condition in the game is applied to your target and they didn’t see it coming. There’s no animation that lets you know these are coming.

With a warrior, you can see EVERY attack coming. It’s easy mode fighting a warrior.

Also, if you can’t beat most 1v1’s with your necro then you’re not a good player. Sorry. :\

I think that one of the best ways to avoid necro marks is dodge in random directions.
And last I checked, signet you mentioned make that huge… thing over necro appear.

EvilSardine.9635:

You click one signet and almost every condition in the game is applied to your target and they didn’t see it coming.

What?!?

When a necro casts signet of spite there is a big Yellow signet that appears over their head that looks like a yellow full moon that screams “Hello I’m casting my Signet of Spite” at the same time the necro also does a hand animation. Signet of spite is a very telegraphed move that can be blocked, blinded, dodged etc.

Its also usually a 1v1 tool if its not 1v1 and a necro has spite on it probably has epidemic so that leaves 1 stun breaker.

Condition “meta” is meaningless. At least refer to individual classes or builds… Because statements like the above are ridiculous when applied to most condition damage builds which have no burst or condition “bombs” whatsoever.

Some of it is probably just a L2P issue as well as adapting to a damage type that was rarely seen before since condition builds have never been very common in the past. I’ll admit, with shame, I didn’t realize you could dodge necro signets though they are definitely easy to see and have a slow cast.

Second, the problem in general with conditions and balance is that it gets much weaker in group situations because of the number of condition removal skills that are AoE. I’ve noticed with even just two players (particularly with an ele), the effectiveness of conditions drop off rapidly.

And third, counters to conditions can be a lot stronger than counters to direct damage builds. Warriors for example can build extreme condition duration reduction. On my P/D thief today, I faced a mesmer with an unusual build That I could not even get under half in 5-10 minutes of fighting; which was odd since I didn’t consider mesmer as having strong condition removal or sustain.

So maybe it’s several skills on 1-2 classes or maybe it’s just L2P (adapt) but broken “meta”? I don’t think so.

oZii.2864:

What?!?

When a necro casts signet of spite there is a big Yellow signet that appears over their head that looks like a yellow full moon that screams “Hello I’m casting my Signet of Spite” at the same time the necro also does a hand animation. Signet of spite is a very telegraphed move that can be blocked, blinded, dodged etc.

Its also usually a 1v1 tool if its not 1v1 and a necro has spite on it probably has epidemic so that leaves 1 stun breaker.

Found a quick video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6Ob2iihnsy4#t=67

Watch how the conditions are applied and then the symbol SLOWLY “puffs” into existence like smoke. Please stop making stuff up to defend something that’s broken.

You can’t dodge it or use tactics to avoid it. There’s many other things similar to this that you can’t see coming that the necro has and it’s garbage and needs to be fixed.

EvilSardine.9635:

Found a quick video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6Ob2iihnsy4#t=67

Watch how the conditions are applied and then the symbol SLOWLY “puffs” into existence like smoke. Please stop making stuff up to defend something that’s broken.

You where saying?

Made a quick video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6BV3dJnUmc

Please stop being totally wrong and grabbing videos from 2012 lets fast forward 1 year later K! I am not trying to defend anything I am stating a fact you are trying to defend your position with false information.

Please stop being wrong!!!

If you can’t dodge that when you are looking at the necro then we have a l2p issue here.

shimmerless.4560:

Condition bombing is how these specs play by default: Necromancer is the strongest offender but Engies aren’t far behind. The only condi-heavy specs that actually play towards attrition are Thieves and Mesmers, and I would say in the case of the latter two it’s only because of limitation and not due to player intent.

There’s little reason to ever not use Engie pistol skills or Necro staff and scepter skills when they’re off cooldown, because they’re all pure damage and/or used to proc traits that also deal damage. Spite Signet is a nuke plain and simple, it has a very brief cast time and was only recently given some sort of animation. Staff #5, DS #5 and Pistol #3 are all powerful nukes, as are the burning traits that can randomly proc on anything for any of both class’ skills. The damage itself is very high on these abilities without considering that they ignore armor, Prot and much else besides.

Thief and Mesmer condition builds everyone adjusted to mostly thief and the newer 20/20/30 mesmer condi build became popular after people already adjusted. P/D thieves popped up into wvw and everyone was complaining there are tons of videos of P/D thieves 1vX people saying its OP. Now its much harder to kill someone as a P/D thief (not because of culling ended) many people now run builds that deal with 1-2 conditions easily more people run foods, melandru runes, remove condi on heal passive condi removal traits. Mesmers can pump out alot of conditions almost as fast as a necro but a large part of it relies on your enemy killing your clones.

So P/D thieves for example didn’t get nerfed (outside of caltrops util) they got some pretty good buffs its just that everyone runs builds now that laugh at applying 1 or 2 conditions (its probably why they added torment to shadow strike).

oZii.2864:

You where saying?

Made a quick video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6BV3dJnUmc

Please stop being totally wrong and grabbing videos from 2012 lets fast forward 1 year later K! I am not trying to defend anything I am stating a fact you are trying to defend your position with false information.

Please stop being wrong!!!

If you can’t dodge that when you are looking at the necro then we have a l2p issue here.

Thanks for the evidence supporting what I’m saying. Did you pay attention to the time difference between the the conditions being applied and the ITTY BITTY TINY puff of smoke that appears that can happen from 1200 range that doesn’t even differentiate between other signets?

Are you saying that’s as obvious as ANY ranger ability from 1200 range? As obvious as a warrior using his F1 hammer burst or ANY attack the warrior has? Lava font, eruption, meteor shower, ice spike or most Elementalist attacks?

A necro can just press a button or put down marks on his target instantly and are completely unavoidable. They honestly need to add some type of animation to most necro abilities. There are a few skills in the game belonging to other classes which have the same issue but the necro has the most.

Again, thanks for the video. I was looking for a good one to send to the devs for suggestions.

EvilSardine.9635:

oZii.2864:

You where saying?

Made a quick video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6BV3dJnUmc

Please stop being totally wrong and grabbing videos from 2012 lets fast forward 1 year later K! I am not trying to defend anything I am stating a fact you are trying to defend your position with false information.

Please stop being wrong!!!

If you can’t dodge that when you are looking at the necro then we have a l2p issue here.

Thanks for the evidence supporting what I’m saying. Did you pay attention to the time difference between the the conditions being applied and the ITTY BITTY TINY puff of smoke that appears that can happen from 1200 range that doesn’t even differentiate between other signets?

Are you saying that’s as obvious as ANY ranger ability from 1200 range? As obvious as a warrior using his F1 hammer burst or ANY attack the warrior has? Lava font, eruption, meteor shower, ice spike or most Elementalist attacks?

A necro can just press a button or put down marks on his target instantly and are completely unavoidable. They honestly need to add some type of animation to most necro abilities. There are a few skills in the game belonging to other classes which have the same issue but the necro has the most.

Again, thanks for the video. I was looking for a good one to send to the devs for suggestions.

I supported what you said? How? You said conditions are applied then the signet appears over the necro’s head which is not the case. The signet appears first then conditions are applied which is the opposite of what you said. Spin it however you like but facts are facts sure you can backtrack now if you like though. You should probably edit your previous post so you can at least appear to know what your talking about maybe you will fool somebody.

Lets capture this in time

EvilSardine.9635:

Found a quick video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6Ob2iihnsy4#t=67

Watch how the conditions are applied and then the symbol SLOWLY “puffs” into existence like smoke. Please stop making stuff up to defend something that’s broken.

You can’t dodge it or use tactics to avoid it. There’s many other things similar to this that you can’t see coming that the necro has and it’s garbage and needs to be fixed.

You seriously sound like a noob tbh. Any profession with any signet on shows on its buff bar. Do you not pay attention to the buff bar? You know the bar that has important things on it like stability and boons and SIGNETS? Necros in WvW run 2 signets locust and spite. Occasionally they run Plague which looks like a skull. You might need to start mousing over the buff bar and learn about other classes then come back when your better informed.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Aye, but if they build 100% direct damage, they go down FAST. Thats not the case with condi builds, however.

Are you suggesting that someone who builds all his damage on just Cond. Damage will drop someone as fast as full zerker? Not anywhere close.

I can up my damage in a cond build by going full Rampager’s. I\ll die just as fast as a zerker but i wont kill nearly as fast.

oZii.2864:

come back when your better informed.

You’re completely missing the point.

There’s a huge chunk of serious PvPers who agree that Anet gave a huge advantage to necros with their animations. I’m sorry but if you don’t agree that laying down marks on a player’s feet INSTANTLY with no telegraphed animation while causing CC/huge condition damage (dhuumfire/fearbomb/etc) is absurd then I don’t know what to tell ya.

Serious tournament players want to see things like this improved.

EvilSardine.9635:

You’re completely missing the point.

There’s a huge chunk of serious PvPers who agree that Anet gave a huge advantage to necros with their animations. I’m sorry but if you don’t agree that laying down marks on a player’s feet INSTANTLY with no telegraphed animation while causing CC/huge condition damage (dhuumfire/fearbomb/etc) is absurd then I don’t know what to tell ya.

Serious tournament players want to see things like this improved.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv —--> https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/condition-meta-needs-to-be-fixed

I posted those links just incase you forgot what forum your posting in. This is the WvW forums what are you talking about tournaments for?

Next you will be telling me how Spirit rangers are destroying WvW and it will never be a esport.

This is exactly my point people from sPvP bring it over to WvW when then to are not the same. You shown your balance mentality is sPvP but it doesn’t apply here sorry Spirit rangers are not destroying WvW, Mesmers are not out of the WvW meta, you can cap Towers and Camps with out running Necro’s and Spirit rangers, Eles are viable in WvW. You don’t HAVE to run anything in WvW that you don’t want to in order to be competitive you can just zerg it up if you like.

I don’t even know why you bring up sPvP in the discussion when balance happens there it has more of an affect on WvW players then vice verse. Really most of the balance in the game is dictated by sPvP.

Brb while I go spectator mode in WvW to observe the meta!

Condition mechanics is so basic here. Is black or white… you remove them avoiding all damage and cc or just take them and die or being kited… Is -duration buff vs +duration buff… And only one stat for effectiveness letting you invest all in defense.

We need some defense against.

Or some kind of resilience vs the re-apply of them. (less duration after remove one kind of condition)

Or some kind of incoming condition queue vs that spamming mechanic. (maximum number of active condition at time, the rest in queue for 5s i.e., if any condition is remove the next in queue go in, if 5s pass in queue the queue condition is removed)

In one second you have 6 conditions or more with damage AND CC or debuff effects… Even if you remove all of them is TOO easy to re-apply that if removed.

For those who said “thats kill the condition build” well… is fair if you need another stat besides condition damage, if you only have condition damage is like you only have attack power without critic, or critic without critical damage or power. The problem is “you want to do full damage with ONLY one stat”, invest in power and condition damage and you have more chance and ways to do damage. Like every no-condition build.

The current mechanic is just to basic to work well.

Condition are too easy re-apply? Actually when necro use first burst he doesn’t do kitten after that. He can spam scepter as much as he want but it doesn’t do kitten.

You do nothing after the first burst because you invest in defense and not in attack. Take stats point you spend in vitality and toughness and put that in power. Is for that is to easy to build a condition tank, you only need one stat for be effective the rest in defenses.

And yes, they are EASY to re-apply. The only problem is your own CD, there is nothing to impediment you to re-apply them, there is no defense or resilience against. And you have a plenty of attacks or utility (even runes, sigils or traits) to re-apply stacks.

urieldhynne.2743:

You do nothing after the first burst because you invest in defense and not in attack. Take stats point you spend in vitality and toughness and put that in power. Is for that is to easy to build a condition tank, you only need one stat for be effective the rest in defenses.

What are you trying to say? Rampager necros are problem, not rabid necros?

I’m ok with this meta.
I would be ok if they change it too, but they will need to tone down bunkering so that every burst damage build would be able to kill in a 1v1 (eventually) a bunker build (healway guardian, d/d ele, cleric ranger, healing signet warrior).
To me, fights should end in a stale only in bunker vs bunker. A burst damage spec should be able, even if it takes them a couple minutes, to shut down any bunker build.

hihey.1075:

I’m ok with this meta.
I would be ok if they change it too, but they will need to tone down bunkering so that every burst damage build would be able to kill in a 1v1 (eventually) a bunker build (healway guardian, d/d ele, cleric ranger, healing signet warrior).
To me, fights should end in a stale only in bunker vs bunker. A burst damage spec should be able, even if it takes them a couple minutes, to shut down any bunker build.

Wrong on so many levels.

Amins.3710:

hihey.1075:

I’m ok with this meta.
I would be ok if they change it too, but they will need to tone down bunkering so that every burst damage build would be able to kill in a 1v1 (eventually) a bunker build (healway guardian, d/d ele, cleric ranger, healing signet warrior).
To me, fights should end in a stale only in bunker vs bunker. A burst damage spec should be able, even if it takes them a couple minutes, to shut down any bunker build.

Wrong on so many levels.

Care to enlighten me a bit then?
Or are you one of those guardians who keeps QQing just because you must flee the moment you see a necro?

hihey.1075:

Amins.3710:

hihey.1075:

I’m ok with this meta.
I would be ok if they change it too, but they will need to tone down bunkering so that every burst damage build would be able to kill in a 1v1 (eventually) a bunker build (healway guardian, d/d ele, cleric ranger, healing signet warrior).
To me, fights should end in a stale only in bunker vs bunker. A burst damage spec should be able, even if it takes them a couple minutes, to shut down any bunker build.

Wrong on so many levels.

Care to enlighten me a bit then?
Or are you one of those guardians who keeps QQing just because you must flee the moment you see a necro?

The way you say only fights on Bunker VS Bunker should end stale looks like it is a build behavior that hasnt its place on the game, the odd party is i can agree with that but some other classes can be better bunkers than guardian and any other class can kill any guardian bunker easilly (i do with my other classes), or maybe bunker guardians should not roam alone:P and should not try to face 5necros at once and need to learn they are only for zerg 1st skill spam.

p.s sorry about the bad english.

hihey.1075:

Amins.3710:

hihey.1075:

I’m ok with this meta.
I would be ok if they change it too, but they will need to tone down bunkering so that every burst damage build would be able to kill in a 1v1 (eventually) a bunker build (healway guardian, d/d ele, cleric ranger, healing signet warrior).
To me, fights should end in a stale only in bunker vs bunker. A burst damage spec should be able, even if it takes them a couple minutes, to shut down any bunker build.

Wrong on so many levels.

Care to enlighten me a bit then?
Or are you one of those guardians who keeps QQing just because you must flee the moment you see a necro?

You got me there.

gud 1

I’ve got about 1k hours with my necro and have played him always mainly condition and from my point of view I’d flat out and say we’re really strong atm. I mean I almost feel bad when I open up with signet of spite drop to deathshroud teleport to em, fear, torment then I can drop out of deathshroud switch to staff drop my mark 5 for another fear and it’s usually gg and with my burning it’s so much damage it’s not even funny in such a small time span not to mention I can throw back any confusion/conditions thrown my way and if you got boons? I Always got corrupt boon for that no problem.

I can usually drop most classes in a few seconds with this combo. I always did well with my necromancer before the buff but I Wouldn’t mind getting toned down to be honest but would like a way to survive some focus fire a little better =) I do have trouble with some classes though like the obvious hammer warriors and some shatter mesmers and thieves can still catch me off guard.

I honestly feel bad for rangers the most and even most ele’s as I can usually drop them the fastest……

People here have some misconseption of condition builds. The most effective condition builds I know have to invest in 3 stats to be effective. That is condition dmg, precision and toughness. The Rabid-armor is the perfect match for that. Why condition dmg is needed shoulb be obvious^^. Precision is needed to apply conditions quickly via auto attack. Sure you can do without it. But then it doesn’t result in that strong reaply effect. And thoughness is needed, cuz some professions and runes make you add 5% of toughness to your condition dmg and, most improtant, it gives you the necesarry resilianc to survive bursts. And, even if ppl say, condition duration is not needed, it is vital to stack bleeds for example. The number of bleeds sometimes has an even more intinidating effect than the actual dmg and I can see how ppl panic, being stacked with so many bleeds.

I got my kitten kicked some days a go by a condition Mesmer. I played my hybrid dmg mesmer at this point. I tried like 3 times and he ripped me appart. Then later, I challanged him again. and we achieved a 1:1 then (as far as I remember). Cuz I overthought my fighting style and used my only condition remove better.

Granted, condition builds are really strong atm. But that is the case for other builds too, who are suitable for different matchups, different group sizes and such. My condition necromancer ripps most opponents appart in a 1v1 battle. I even charge up to 3 or 4 ppl with my necormancer and still am confident that I can win. However, the moment I realize I lose, I have lost. I can not get away, I can not stealth, stability or invulnerable me out of bad situations. And if even one of my opponents has strong CC abilities, I am screwed.

I do not want to deny, that there is some tweaking necesarry. But some suggestions I read hear are just rediculous and would overshoot in the complete opposite, making condition builds just simply crap. And sometimes it is the best to avoid being stacked with conditions. I have seen ppl effectivly avoiding my attacks and downing me, before I stacked enough conditions to really preasure them. For all those complaining about condition builds. Run one for a time. There are some huge downsides to conditions and WvW is rarely about 1v1 situations.