And here i thought thiefs had stupid burst in pvp.
19k hp 3.3k armor from 100% to 0% in what 1 may be 2 seconds?.
Funny you say that. I was playing my thief in WvW about 20 min ago.
I felt so worthless.
Thieves have always had higher damage output in WvW due to the way the PvP amulets limit stat combos and use of stacks, WvW bonuses etc. Anet only balance the game for PvP.
yea, okay. thieves suck right now. doubt they could 100-0 anyone that’s not zerker.
Thieves have always been this way and most likely always will be. Other than venom sharing in zergs, they really don’t have anything else to do but roam and scout in WvW. They aren’t essential at all like other professions are while zerging so what do they do? Cause problems for you and your server. Tap your keep, kill players trying to run back to their zerg, flip sentries and camps, and all that other stuff a good roamer should do.
With the elite spec coming, they can potentially be even better. However, thieves now, are worse off than they have been in the past. Its pretty much the same build with all of them now so if you look at it on metabattle, you’ll see that all you really need is a condition and stun-breaker to beat them.
yea, okay. thieves suck right now. doubt they could 100-0 anyone that’s not zerker.
is it that hard to read the OP? it is literally 2 lines.
Lol, so no one disputes that they can burst you down from stealth in a second while we wear stupid amounts of armor, yet some how that is still not enough for some?.
What would be enough a “i win button”?.
(edited by Apolo.5942)
yea, okay. thieves suck right now. doubt they could 100-0 anyone that’s not zerker.
is it that hard to read the OP? it is literally 2 lines.
Lol, so no one disputes that they can burst you down from stealth in a second while we wear stupid amounts of armor, yet some how that is still not enough for some?.
What would be enough a “i win button”?.
did you even read what i posted
thieves cannot 100-0 anyone that’s not zerker literally that backstab will at most hit you for like what 6k now you can stunbreak and retaliate when they have the revealed buff on
Lol, so no one disputes that they can burst you down from stealth in a second while we wear stupid amounts of armor, yet some how that is still not enough for some?.
no one disputes that because it’s not true. if a thief is killing you in less than 10 seconds while you’re wearing over 3k armor then that’s a l2p issue do you even know this game has a dodge roll button
How is a thief killing you when you have 3.3k armor? (Unless he’s condition, lol)
People shouldn’t complain unless they play the game at a high enough level. You can dodge backstabs from stealth, you know. All you need to more practice. You can interrupt their leap and make them waste 9 initiative. Or you can play literally any class with enough access to protection/weakness with a modicum of condition damage.
@Apolo.5942, Toughness is useless after patch, get better damage output and you will be fine, since u can do alot of damage to.. just go full power builds or full condi, guard GS+symbol+fire sometimes can wreck 2-3 players.
@Alphabet.7392 guardian with high toughness are easy to kill(to easy), other classes with high toughness like engie and eles are harder to kill(takes more time), it is a matter of mechanics.
If i recall well the difference between light armor and heavy armor defense is around 10-12%, so if sacrifice damage for defense expect to loose.
Apolo.5942 what class were u playing maybe player can help with build?
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
And here i thought thiefs had stupid burst in pvp.
19k hp 3.3k armor from 100% to 0% in what 1 may be 2 seconds?.
3.3K armor ?
LOL… screenshot or it didn’t happen.
/thread
@Hexalot.8194, for sure he got bursted while in heavy cd times :P
It was definitely a condition thief. A while ago, I used to do timed condition burst with thieves guild and venoms. That build can kill anyone who doesn’t cleanse or heal in a few seconds. It is probably even stronger now, but it was a very one trick pony build.
How is a thief killing you when you have 3.3k armor? (Unless he’s condition, lol)
People shouldn’t complain unless they play the game at a high enough level. You can dodge backstabs from stealth, you know. All you need to more practice. You can interrupt their leap and make them waste 9 initiative. Or you can play literally any class with enough access to protection/weakness with a modicum of condition damage.
D/p isn’t the only wep set that backstabs rofl… And yes, you CAN interrupt it, that doesn’t mean it’s easy or always a viable option (you have a short timeframe to do so, and if the thief hit you with the projectile blind which is a part of the combo, you will very probably not be able to attack to wear off blind then cc unless your cc is instant, and even then it’s a close call).
Also, yes you CAN dodge a backstab, but it’s more a matter of luck than skill. You just rotate with the intent to avoid a pattern as much as possible (thereby making the “backstab” miss the “back” part and do significantly decreased damage), OR spam dodges after just less than 2 seconds assuming they don’t backstab earlier (which a good thief can easily do in close range).
That said, the OP is still wrong. Thief will have a virtually impossible time doing that much dmg unless they go quickness and have a full yolo DPS build… in which case they’re easier to kitten than they are easy to kitten with.
If you are talking about being bursted down from one thief with 3.3k Armour with Prot. , I just dont see it happening that easily.
If you are talking about a bunch of thieves, yeah, you mostly kittened if they focus fire on you.
A lot of thieves these days run in groups to gank on solo roamers. Really annoying. You have literally no escape unless you run thief or PU mesmer yourself.
i’ve taken 7k heartseekers at 2900 armor. the power to toughness ratio is a bit skewed.
6k.. you talking about spvp or something. you know you are in the wvw forum, right? Where people run around with ascended gear, bloodlust stacks, food and what not.. if you hit for 6k in wvw you probably didnt crit xD
Funny how thief is so messed up right now.
In spvp we have become useless and we can’t have any build diversity because of needed trait lines and weapon sets (Remove ricochet entirely and cripple builds because of too much Rng? Really?), we can only use Dagger Pistol and shortbow, as they aren’t useless, but still broken due to the sheer amount of burst you can get. Anet has really messed up my favorite class and for that I am very sad.
6k.. you talking about spvp or something. you know you are in the wvw forum, right? Where people run around with ascended gear, bloodlust stacks, food and what not.. if you hit for 6k in wvw you probably didnt crit xD
uhm, and you probably don’t play a thief, e.g. my thief has 2,85k power, 251% crit dmg and 100% crit rate on backstab
now what dmg does the backstab usually do…. 8k, 10 tops (very seldom, chances are higher to get struck by lightning) and more often than not it’s only 6-7k
hell i backstabbed a condi mesmer yesterday and did 2,7k dmg, wtf anet?
6k.. you talking about spvp or something. you know you are in the wvw forum, right? Where people run around with ascended gear, bloodlust stacks, food and what not.. if you hit for 6k in wvw you probably didnt crit xD
uhm, and you probably don’t play a thief, e.g. my thief has 2,85k power, 251% crit dmg and 100% crit rate on backstab
now what dmg does the backstab usually do…. 8k, 10 tops (very seldom, chances are higher to get struck by lightning) and more often than not it’s only 6-7k
hell i backstabbed a condi mesmer yesterday and did 2,7k dmg, wtf anet?
Yeah Anet, wtf, that thief only did what would be a sensible amount of damage with one of his skills for any other class. Quick, buff thiefs they might have to learn to play with sensible damage output like the rest of us- or heaven forbid, wear some armor!
DHawk you are right i dont usually play thief… However i have one at lvl 80 fully equipped for burst so i do know what im talking about. Cant access my stats during work but might post them later.
DHawk you are right i dont usually play thief… However i have one at lvl 80 fully equipped for burst so i do know what im talking about. Cant access my stats during work but might post them later.
have you played the thief post patch?
pre patch thieves were much better, mine e.g. had less power and less crit dmg and did more dmg with every backstab than now with those super buffed stats
the only thing you really are able to kill quickly now are thieves that didn’t get the memo yet that full zerker gear is not viable anymore
one CnD + BS and they are dead
for every other class I need about 1 1/2 backstabs to get them close to 50% life
while the thief gets killed by almost every class within a few seconds
but ppl still cry about thief being op, just fyi (all of you) there are posts in the thief forum of ppl crying that they got killed within 10sec by 3 thieves (which is kinda bad for 3 thieves tbh) and that that is so op thieves need to be nerfed
so….
6k.. you talking about spvp or something. you know you are in the wvw forum, right? Where people run around with ascended gear, bloodlust stacks, food and what not.. if you hit for 6k in wvw you probably didnt crit xD
uhm, and you probably don’t play a thief, e.g. my thief has 2,85k power, 251% crit dmg and 100% crit rate on backstab
now what dmg does the backstab usually do…. 8k, 10 tops (very seldom, chances are higher to get struck by lightning) and more often than not it’s only 6-7k
hell i backstabbed a condi mesmer yesterday and did 2,7k dmg, wtf anet?Yeah Anet, wtf, that thief only did what would be a sensible amount of damage with one of his skills for any other class. Quick, buff thiefs they might have to learn to play with sensible damage output like the rest of us- or heaven forbid, wear some armor!
sure, it is a sensible amount of damage, if you reduce the dmg of warriors, ranger’s rapid fire, mesmers, etc
hell my guard deals more dmg with a few hits than my thief with a backstab, it’s pathetic
imo the backstab should be a hard hitting skill, since you NEED to be in stealth AND hit the enemy from behind
and if the opponent knows what he is doing it is really really hard to do so
countering a thief (especially post patch) is so kitten easy, why do you think that a majority of the good thief players left or went to mesmer
the ONLY thing thief is really good at atm is getting away, that’s it
the damage is meh, the sustain is pathetic, the burst is meh, since almost every class has weakness, invuln, protection, etc it makes it even worse
don’t judje a class you’ve never played before
did u ever play thief ur self? with new patch ur just beyond useless in WvW. like someone mentioned we are only good for flipping camps and sentry for the rest we cant do a jackkitten.
go with the blob? ur a melee who cant even handle 2 hits
use short bow your range is so short if u do 1 mistake as in step to much forward to early your dead..
thief is horrible nerfed in this latest patch none the less i keep playing it but dont act like thief is full of joy FOTM class..
did u ever play thief ur self? with new patch ur just beyond useless in WvW. like someone mentioned we are only good for flipping camps and sentry for the rest we cant do a jackkitten.
go with the blob? ur a melee who cant even handle 2 hits
use short bow your range is so short if u do 1 mistake as in step to much forward to early your dead..
thief is horrible nerfed in this latest patch none the less i keep playing it but dont act like thief is full of joy FOTM class..
the truth has been spoken, hail hydra
You’re doing it wrong if you think Thief is useless. Apart from stealthing dolyaks and scouting (in perma stealth, which Mesmers can’t do), there are lots of other things we can do better than any other class.
If you try to run in the zerg (ie with the guardians and warriors) obviously you will die. Use your spammable stealth and great mobility to go to the back of their zerg and pick off the squishy targets. Mesmers can’t do this as easily because they have one teleport skill so they have to manually walk behind which takes lots of time.
It’s like playing a burst assassin in league. You don’t have to be able to 1v1 everybody to contribute greatly to your zerg. I mean it’s nice to be able to, and Thieves still can (if you don’t suck), but even if you aren’t able to it doesn’t mean you are useless at all.
You can also run venom share or medic Thief, both of which are great although they don’t conform to many players’ expectations.
And here i thought thiefs had stupid burst in pvp.
19k hp 3.3k armor from 100% to 0% in what 1 may be 2 seconds?.
Before they patched the whole trait thingy you had to options on thief: go full zerker yolo mode or use a more balanced build. Full zerker is still there and the other build died because you have to kill your enemy before they kill you and it got quiet easy with all those changes to kill thiefs…
besides the fact that you cannot permastealth unless you always have all your stealth skills on cd and use up your ini all the time
in addition to that you cannot do it while infight because you cannot weaponswap all teh time for pistol#5 shortbow#2
plus it only works when playing x/p
(yes d#2 will also grant stealth but bow works better)
well yeah, i can pick off the squishy targets at 50% hp
so can a ranger, or a mesmer
since most mesmer run rune of the traveler they don’t need an extra blink, they go stealth for 6 sec, run over, burst him down, blink out, done
same thing as thief, only thief uses up half his ini on the way there
And here i thought thiefs had stupid burst in pvp.
19k hp 3.3k armor from 100% to 0% in what 1 may be 2 seconds?.
Before they patched the whole trait thingy you had to options on thief: go full zerker yolo mode or use a more balanced build. Full zerker is still there and the other build died because you have to kill your enemy before they kill you and it got quiet easy with all those changes to kill thiefs…
I’m doing fine as a non-full-zerker Thief. Yeah obviously other classes are better at sustained fights since that is what they were designed for but don’t forget you can reset the fight as many times as you want, until you win (or get bored).
besides the fact that you cannot permastealth unless you always have all your stealth skills on cd and use up your ini all the time
in addition to that you cannot do it while infight because you cannot weaponswap all teh time for pistol#5 shortbow#2
plus it only works when playing x/p
(yes d#2 will also grant stealth but bow works better)well yeah, i can pick off the squishy targets at 50% hp
so can a ranger, or a mesmer
since most mesmer run rune of the traveler they don’t need an extra blink, they go stealth for 6 sec, run over, burst him down, blink out, done
same thing as thief, only thief uses up half his ini on the way there
Okay…then…run Rune of Traveler on Thief and you can do the same thing too with Blinding Powder (and steal). What kind of argument is that?
First, it might be possible what happened to the OP in certain, but very rare circumstances. Thieves can still output a lot of damage and not all thief builds are equal. Nor are all opponents builds equal. Just because a guard can have a lot of armor/health doesn’t mean any particular person actually has it.
However, the whoa is me thief crap really needs to stop…..
When a class is so powerful for so long, it becomes FOTM. That means they unskilled players flock to it so they can look good. This does nothing to improve their skill, in fact it makes them worse than before as they don’t need real tactics and skill to win. After even this mild nerf, it really separates the truly good players from the bad players who just looked good because they were playing a class that was exceptional for so long.
You can still reset most fights at will and remained stealthed and heal up about as much as you wish on a thief. You can burst down players running to and from places. You can help in a zerg if you are smart.
1. You control the action. Do not run in among the million red dots, periphery areas are your bread and butter.
2. Keep people from getting back in the fight, it’s pretty easy still.
3. Show some judgement when you pick your target. You can’t kill everyone as easily as before now ZOMG WHAT DO I DO……… pick off the easier targets or harass the others so they don’t get back into the fight.
4. Get 3-5 people to chase you during a zerg fight. 5 people chasing you means 5 people not fighting. Stealth, dodge, appear, SS, repeat…. Keep the back line zerglings busy focusing their AOE on you and not your blob. That alone is worth a lot more than you might think in a battle. Often times it makes the difference in winning or losing.
5. Down people and move on. Forget the finish….People are too worried about it. In combat you injure your opponent so his 2-3 buddies rush to help him. That is 2-4 people not in the battle now. Do it to 2-3 zerk squishies and you just won the battle for your side. Less damage, less people fighting = win. you do need to know when to finish and when not to for this to be optimal
6. Pop that mesmer and make him run. a running enemy who does a lot of damage and can control a fight needs to go. Pop that fool, mesmer, staff blast ele and make them run. A running opponent is not doing damage and not contributing for many seconds in a fight.
Yes, you actually need to use your brains and develop more skill. No offense, but it is about time the chaff was culled after so long a time. Actually, most of those bad thieves are now playing a mesmer…. people never learn. You don’t get better playing it easy. You get better by training against tough opponents and worse odds.
(edited by wyther.8372)
Thief isnt op, problem is classwide, for the good and bad.
Before patch i could hold 1 thief(for some time while help was at is way) with mace/shield except those plesky p/d teleporting machines :P, now i use GS WW to blend them easilly there is no true balance since every class can burst each other at the first second best tactic is output damage(it is a little bit mindless game), i dont know what kind of iteration anet is doing, but so far game looks like it is in beta state, and getting worse….
On gw1 was required team work and a certain knowledge to burst players that way…. now every Skritt can do it, it turns that gimmicks on gw2 make any players a good player.
High ranked gw1 player > any gw2 player.
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
Before patch i could hold 1 thief(for some time while help was at is way) with mace/shield except those plesky p/d teleporting machines :P, now i use GS WW to blend them easilly there is no true balance since every class can burst each other at the first second best tactic is output damage(it is a little bit mindless game), i dont know what kind of iteration anet is doing, but so far game looks like it is in beta state, and getting worse….
It is a bad thief who can’t just dodge that attack and get out of it’s way. However, I agree the game seems to be reverting back to a mid stage beta.
I run a condi thief with 3.1K armor and ~21K health before WvW bonuses. Post patch, I have never been burst from 100% to 0% (by any class)before I could react. I typically have 30-50% health left the majority of the time.
cg you got 1 shot by full glass sigil thief; your sneeze could probably 1 shot him… now there are quite few classes that can pull even higher numbers and actually have way better survival… just saying~
OP………I leave you with this:
“Every Champion Was Once A Contender That Refused To Give Up.” – Rocky Balboa
Use your spammable stealth and great mobility to go to the back of their zerg and pick off the squishy targets.
I’m assuming you’ve never played gank since the ranger buffs. Do you know how hard this is with rangers in their current state?
(edited by Ruru.1302)
@OP:
How many posts do you need to make on the topic? We get it. You can’t beat thieves. You want someone to show you sympathy.
Use your spammable stealth and great mobility to go to the back of their zerg and pick off the squishy targets.
I’m assuming you’ve never played gank since the ranger buffs. Do you know how hard this is with rangers in their current state?
Yeah, Rangers are a bit difficult to deal with. But apart from them there isn’t really anyone else who you have to watch out for.
In any case, I think most people realize by now that Thieves (in general, not you in particular) complain all the time. Remember stealth trap and how they complained that it would make them unviable? Or the revealed change? Or like Mug not being able to crit? Or CnD damage reduction?
Yet somehow Thieves did fine after all the changes. Even now I am not having too much trouble, and also see many other Thief players who are doing fine too. I wouldn’t put too much stock in the constant “wow Thief is useless” complaints.
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