Guild Wars 2

FACTORS THAT BALANCE RANGED COMBAT IN GW2:
Guild Wars 2 is a game that was designed to have players read their opponent’s skill cues. To this effect, ANet has designed several manners of reading an opponent such as:

• Instant-cast
• Post-cast delay
• Red circle
• Projectile
• On-caster visual cue
• Projectile that can be blocked, reflected or destroyed
• Gap-closer skill in which the enemy has to run to leap to a target

However, despite these various cues, there are a many slew of skills in GW2 that forego 2 or more of the above balancing principles. These skills should be looked at critically and probably nerfed or functionally changed in order to bring them into line with how combat should appear in-game. Giving certain weapon sets or play-styles free hits for certain skill usage in a game where the “holy trinity” is absent is asking for trouble. Overpowered ranged skills need to be culled in this game and wrangled back into obedience governed by the balancing principles listed above.

A STATEMENT ON THE EXISTENCE OF “ENERGY” IN GW2
People say that GW2 has no energy system. While there is no concrete resource system in place in GW2 (aside from Initiative which we see with the Thief), there is a resource that governs whether or not a player can use a skill: cast-time.

Having a lot of skills available to a player is fine so long as some of the more powerful skills are limited in scope by the amount of time that a player has to invest to those skills in order to get the most out of them. A fine example is [Meteor Shower]. Firm but fair, [Meteor Shower] can inflict devastating amounts of damage, but with a 3¾-second long channel for maximum effect, the elementalist really needs to either pop some sort of damage mitigation skill or position him/herself properly while using while also aiming the AoE properly. [Meteor Shower] is not something that you can just shoot off mid-fight just because it happens to be off cool-down. That’s the “mana” limitation. Time limits its viability as a skill despite there being no mana to govern its on-the-spot usage. Not only does an Elementalist need to channel the skill for a good 1 to 1½ seconds before a single meteor even begins to fall, [Meteor Shower] is a very lack-luster skill if not channeled to its full extent because of its nature as a charge-up skill. The longer that an Elementalist channels [Meteor Shower], the more meteors actually fall.

There should be many more skills like [Meteor Shower]. In fact, [Churning Earth] used to use a charge-up mechanic but this was changed after Beta Weekend Event 1 without any explanation. Charge-up mechanics and long cast-times are the true key to balancing skills that have no post-cast effect delays. Having longer cast-times on many powerful skills could help clear up the generally messy combat that players often encounter in PvP and also cull the general tendency to spam skills on cool-down (or whenever you have enough initiative) which really is the biggest plague on GW2 PvP.

Short-term balance changes. These are for the sake of immediate skill balance and would require the least work.

NEW TOOL-TIP: Delay

• Delay represents how long a skill takes affect after the initial cast-time is completed. Several skills already have delay periods. Adding such a tool-tip to those skills would make it clearer how they work and legitimize the mechanic’s presence in-game. Furthermore, adding delays and visual cues to instant-activation skills that are already instant-activation and/or ranged skills that don’t use projectiles would make them more fair in terms of game-play by providing more counter-playability to opponents.

NECROMANCER CHANGES
Axe main-hand
[Rending Claws]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Cast out a whirling blade that inflicts vulnerability and returns to you.
• Damage: 179 (0.75)
• Vulnerability (1): 7 seconds
• Range: 900
  • Bright green-tinted [Vapor Blade] animation.

[Ghastly Claws]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 3 seconds
• Recharge: 12 seconds
• Channel a cone of biting energy that slashes foes in a quick flurry of strikes. You gain life force with each strike.
• Damage (9x): 945 (2.5)
• Duration: 3 seconds
• Strikes per second: 3
• Life Force per strike: 2%
• Range: 600
  • Strikes up to 5 foes.

Focus off-hand
[Spinal Shivers]

• Now uses a projectile: bright blue-tinted [Ray of Judgment].

Scepter main-hand
[Blood Curse]

• Now uses a projectile: green-tinted [Ether Bolt].

[Rending Curse]

• Now uses a projectile: green-tinted [Ether Bolt].

[Putrid Curse]

• Cast-time increased from ½ second to 1 second.

[Grasping Dead]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 0
• Recharge: 10 seconds
• Raise skeletal hands from the ground to cripple foes at the target location.
• Damage: 235 (0.7)
• Cripple: 5 seconds
• Bleeding (3): 5 seconds
• Delay: 1 second
• Duration: 2 seconds
• Radius: 240
• Range: 900
  • Uses a ¾-second after-cast animation delay (skill cannot be used while activating another skill).
  • For the first second, nothing happens. [Grasping Dead] produces a red circle with skeletal hands dotting the ground after the cast. After one second, the animated arms that perform the grabbing animation trigger once. These arms signal the damage and condition effects.

[Feast of Corruption]

• Foes targeted by [Feast of Corruption] are surrounded by a bright green ring during the cast-time period. The ring bursts upon cast-animation completion.

Staff
[Mark of Blood]

• Cast-time reduced from ¾ second to 0.
• Now uses a ½-second after-cast animation delay (skill cannot be used while disabled or while activating another skill). This is similar to how [Lava Font] functions.
• Added delay: 1 second
  • Now, when cast, only the visual mark will appear (no red/white circle), emitting a red mist (same particle effect as the dust created from Elementalist [Eruption]), and then lingers for 1 second. During this 1-second period, the mark cannot trigger. After 1 second, the mist will fade, a red/white circle will appear and the mark will trigger automatically as it does now.

[Chilblains]

• Cast-time reduced from ¾ second to 0.
• Now uses a ½-second after-cast animation delay (skill cannot be used while disabled or while activating another skill). This is similar to how [Lava Font] functions.
• Added delay: 1 second
  • Now, when cast, only the visual mark will appear (no red/white circle), emitting a blue mist (same particle effect as the dust created from Elementalist [Eruption]), and then lingers for 1 second. During this 1-second period, the mark cannot trigger. After 1 second, the mist will fade, a red/white circle will appear and the mark will trigger automatically as it does now.

[Putrid Mark]

• Cast-time reduced from ¾ second to 0.
• Now uses a ½-second after-cast animation delay (skill cannot be used while disabled or while activating another skill). This is similar to how [Lava Font] functions.
• Added delay: 1 second
  • Now, when cast, only the visual mark will appear (no red/white circle), emitting a green mist (same particle effect as the dust created from Elementalist [Eruption]), and then lingers for 1 second. During this 1-second period, the mark cannot trigger. After 1 second, the mist will fade, a red/white circle will appear and the mark will trigger automatically as it does now.

[Reaper’s Mark]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 2¼ seconds
• Recharge: 35 seconds
• Etch a mark into the ground at target location to trigger later. The longer you charge this skill, the more powerful it becomes.
• ¾ second channel: Damage: 92 (0.25); Fear: ½ second; Radius: 120
• 1½ second channel: Damage: 211 (0.5); Fear: 1 second; Radius: 180
• Full channel: Damage: 318 (1.0); Fear: 1 second; Radius: 240
• Range: 1200
  • While this skill does not display a red circle while channeling, its symbol is present on the ground and glows a violent, bright green.
  • After this skill finishes channeling, the mark appears on the ground with a red circle indicating its size according to how long it was channeled.
  • This skill chains into another skill upon completion: [Reaper’s Wrath].

[Reaper’s Wrath]

• Cast-time: 1 second
• Trigger your Reaper’s Mark.
  • The mark’s edges glow bright green when this skill is being activated.

[Signet of Spite]

• Cast-time increased from ¾ to 1 second.
• Active ability now uses a projectile: gold-tinted [Life Blast].

Traits
Dhuumfire (Spite – XI)

• Now, when this trait activates, it summons an invulnerable reaper NPC near the side of the Necromancer (possibly using the same summon detection as [Phantasmal Warlock]. This reaper then attacks the Necromancer’s current target with an orange-tinted [Life Blast] projectile. The projectile deals no damage, but does inflict the burning described in the trait. The reaper dies/vanishes after shooting the projectile.

ELEMENTALIST CHANGES
Scepter main-hand
[Lightning Strike] – named changed to Lightning Bolt (to diminish combat log confusion)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 0
• Recharge: 6 seconds
• Strike foes at the target location with a lightning bolt.
• Damage: 403 (1.2)
• Delay: 1 second
• Radius: 120
• Range: 900
  • Now creates a red circle on the ground.
  • [Lightning Strike]’s original functionality remains the same for passive triggers such as swapping to Air Attunement with 15 into Air Magic or the RNG proc on Runes of Air (6/6).

[Flamestrike]

• Now uses a projectile: bolt of orange fire that uses the Elementalist [Chain Lightning] projectile pathing and speed.

[Dragon’s Tooth]

• Now uses ground-targeting.
• Damage reduced from 756 (2.25) to 686 (2.25).
• Added tool-tip: Delay: 2 seconds

[Phoenix]

• Cast-time increased from ¼ to ¾ second.
• This skill’s audio cue now also plays when the player first begins casting it in addition to when the projectile explodes and turns around.
• Now creates a red circle on the ground where the Phoenix projectile is targeted to explode and turn around back towards the caster.

[Shatterstone]

• Damage increased from 252 to 302 (0.9).
• Added tool-tip: Delay: 2 seconds
• Now counts as an Ice Field (Duration: 2 seconds).

[Water Trident]

• Casting animation increased in size by 50%.
• Now counts as a Blast Finisher.
• Now, if this skill combos with a Frost Field, it also inflicts vulnerability (8 stacks; 10 seconds) and chill (2 seconds) with shattering ice shards.
  • Vulnerability and chill radius: 180 (same radius as the skill itself).
  • Uses a [Frozen Burst] animation.
• Now, if this skill combos with a Fire Field, it also blinds (5 seconds) and burns (3 seconds) nearby foes with a hot blast of steam.
  • Blind and burn radius: 180 (same radius as the skill itself).
  • Uses a 1-second-long [Boil] animation.

Focus off-hand
[Flamewall]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Recharge: 30 seconds
• Create a wall of flame at target area that damages and burns foes.
• Damage: 179 (0.5)
• Burning: 2 seconds
• Duration: 8 seconds
  • Now chains into another skill: [Breath of Fire].

[Breath of Fire]

• Cast-time: 2¾ seconds
• While you channel this skill, foes cannot cross your Flamewall.
  • While this skill is active, the Flamewall riles into a tall wall of fire that acts similarly to the Guardian [Line of Warding].
  • This chain skill normally remains active for 8 seconds. This chain skill remains active for 10 seconds if the player is using the Persisting Flames (Fire Magic – XI).

[Fire Shield]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Recharge: 35 seconds
• Whirl in place, striking adjacent foes with flames and gaining a Fire Shield. If you combo this skill within a fire field, you gain aegis and create a [Lava Font] at your location.
• Damage (2x): 258 (1.3)
• Fire Shield duration: 5 seconds
• Aegis: 5 seconds
• Combo Finisher: Whirl
• Range: 180
  • Uses the Warrior [Cyclone Axe] animation.

[Freezing Gust]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 3¾ seconds
• Recharge: 40 seconds
• Conjure gusts of freezing wind over target area that inflict chill and vulnerability. If a gust strikes a foe with more than 10 stacks of vulnerability, it immobilizes that foe.
• Damage per gust: 159 (1.0)
• Gust radius: 180
• Chill: 1 second
• Vulnerability (3): 7 seconds
• Immobilize: 1 second
• Duration: 4 seconds
• Radius: 360
• Range: 1200
  • This skill functions similarly to [Meteor Shower] in how it produces the wind gusts.
  • Wind gusts are circular whirls of air, they produce red circles and they have a 1-second delay period upon appearing before they deal damage and their effects.
  • Level 1 channel: 4 gusts
  • Level 2 channel: 8 gusts
  • Level 3 channel: 12 gusts

[Comet]

• Now uses ground-targeting.
• Damage increased from 239 to 386 (1.0).
• Now stuns (2 seconds) if it strikes a chilled foe.

[Gale]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 1½ seconds
• Recharge: 40 seconds
• Channel a cone of biting wind in front of you that blinds and cripples foes before knocking them down.
• Damage (4x): 320 (0.5)
• Blind (4): 1 second
• Cripple (4): 1 second
• Knock-down: 2 seconds
• Range: 600
  • This skill hits up to 3 targets.
  • The final damage tick is the tick that inflicts knock-down.
  • [Healing Breeze] cone

Dagger off-hand
[Ride the Lightning]

• Recharge reduced from 40 to 30 seconds.
• Recharge reduction on hit reduced from 50% to 33%.

[Updraft]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 0
• Recharge: 35 seconds
• Gain swiftness and evade backwards on a gust of wind that cripples and blinds adjacent foes. After 1 second, this gust launches foes at its location, then vanishes.
• Swiftness: 10 seconds
• Blind: 3 seconds
• Cripple: 3 seconds
• Launch: 200
• Launch delay: 1 second
• Radius: 180
• Evasion: 1 second
  • Skill now creates a small AoE circle that uses a shrunken [Sandstorm] (180 radius) animation on activation and lasts for 1 second.
  • Base evasion distance increased from 180(?) to 240 range.

Staff
[Lava Font]

• Tool-tip added: Delay: 1 second.

[Flame Burst]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ¼ second
• Recharge: 10 seconds
• Conjure an orb of flame at target location. After 1 second, the orb explodes, damaging and burning nearby foes.
• Delay: 1 second
• Damage: 65 (0.2)
• Burning: 5 seconds
• Radius: 180
• Range: 1200

[Ice Spike]

• Tool-tip added: Delay: 2 seconds.
• Now inflicts 1½ seconds of immobilize if it strikes a chilled foe.

[Lightning Surge]

• A ring of electricity appears around the target during the casting period.
• Cast-time reduced from 1½ seconds to 1¼ seconds.

[Gust]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Recharge: 30 seconds
• Channel a gust of wind that strikes foes two times in rapid succession. The first gust strike rips up to 2 boons from foes that it hits. The second gust strike knocks back foes.
• Boons removed: 2
• Knock-back: 400
• Range: 600
  • [Healing Breeze] cone.
  • Hits up to 5 targets.

[Windborne Speed]

• Now also grants Super Speed for 2 seconds.

[Static Field]

• Now also removes up to 1 boon from foes that it hits.

[Eruption]

• Tool-tip added: Delay: 3 seconds.

[Unsteady Ground]

• Now uses the same hit-detection as Guardian [Line of Warding].
  • As it stands, casting a [Line of Warding] over top of an enemy will immediately knock that enemy off of its area. This is not the case with [Unsteady Ground] and the two should be normalized.

[Shockwave]

• Cast-time reduced from ¾ to ½ second.
• Bleed stacks changed from 1 stack for 20 seconds to 3 stacks for 12 seconds.

Utility skills
[Arcane Blast]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 0
• Recharge: 20 seconds
• Build up an orb arcane energy above you for 1 second before sending it at your foe. It blasts your target for critical damage.
• Delay: 1 second
• Damage: 363
• Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (100%)
• Range: 1500
  • The delay represents how long the orb remains above the player before flying toward the target.
  • Current projectile size increased by 100%.

[Arcane Wave]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Conjure a ring of arcane energy around target area. After 1 second, the ring explodes, blasting foes in the area for critical damage.
• Delay: 1 second
• Damage: 628
• Combo Finisher: Blast
• Radius: 360
• Range: 900
  • The ring floats just off the ground and highlights the area targeted by [Arcane Wave].
  • Delay ring shares its coloration with [Arcane Blast]’s projectile.

[Arcane Shield]

• Recharge lowered from 75 to 50 seconds.
• Duration lowered from 5 to 2 seconds.
• Explosion generated from exhausting blocks now also knocks back nearby enemies (240 radius; 240 range knock-back).

[Glyph of Renewal]

• Cast-time reduced from 3¼ to 2½ seconds.
• Recharge reduced from 165 to 150 seconds.

[Glyph of Storms]

• Recharge reduced from 60 to 45 seconds.

[Mist Form]

• Recharge reduced from 75 to 60 seconds.
• Duration reduced from 3 to 2 seconds.
• Invulnerability reduced from 3 to 2 seconds.
• Now also cures immobilize, crippled and chill upon activation.
  • Now chains into another skill upon use: [Cold Front].

[Cold Front]

• Cast-time: ¼ second
• Recharge: 5 seconds
• Dash in a target direction, chilling foes that you strike along the way.
• Damage: 111
• Chill: 2 seconds
• Evasion: ¾ seconds
• Range: 450
  • Warrior [Whirlwind Attack].

[Armor of Earth]

• Recharged reduced from 90 to 50 seconds.
• Stability reduced from 6 to 4 seconds.
• Protection reduced from 6 to 4 seconds.
• Duration reduced from 6 to 4 seconds.

[Lightning Flash]

• Recharge reduced from 40 to 30 seconds.

[Cleansing Fire]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Recharge reduced from 40 to 30 seconds.
• Cast-time increased from 0 to 1½ seconds.
• Channel a cleansing fire that pulses around you three times, damaging and burning nearby foes while cleansing 1 condition from yourself and nearby allies with each pulse. The final pulse knocks back nearby enemies.
• Damage (3x): 387
• Burning (3): 1 second
• Knock back: 240
• Radius: 240

GUARDIAN
[Flashing Blade]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ¼ second
• Recharge: 12 seconds
• Leap to target area, damaging and blinding foes where you land.
• Damage: 211 (0.5)
• Blind: 3 seconds
• Range: 800

[Merciful Intervention]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 0
• Recharge: 50 seconds
• Teleport to target location. If there was another ally at that location, you create a healing field.
• Healing: 1960
• Radius: 180
• Range: 900

MESMER
[Mirror Blade]

• This skill is no longer unblockable.

[Mimic]

• Recharge lowered from 25 to 20 seconds.
• Duration reduced from 4½ to 2½ seconds.
• Now grants 2 seconds of protection upon activation.

Prismatic Understanding (Chaos – XII)

• Now grants vigor (2 seconds) instead of aegis.
• Now grants swiftness (4 seconds) instead of protection.
• Regeneration granted reduced from 3 to 2 seconds.

WARRIOR
[Healing Signet]

• Recharge reduced from 20 to 15 seconds.
• Passive healing reduced from 392 to 250 (same healing modifier).
• Now, when this skill activates, you gain protection and regeneration based on your adrenaline levels.
  • Protection per adrenaline bar: 1 second
  • Regeneration per adrenaline bar: 3 seconds

[Arcing Arrow]

• Added a minimum range: 180

[Pin Down]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 1 second
• Recharge: 25 seconds
• Fire a piercing arrow that bleeds and immobilizes your target.
• Damage: 141 (0.4)
• Bleeding (6): 12 seconds
• Immobilized: 3 seconds
• Range: 1500
  • Movement interrupts cast-time; uses the same activation animation as [Kill Shot].

[Shield Stance]

• Duration lowered from 3 to 2 seconds.
• Now chains into another skill: [Shield Slam].

[Shield Slam]

• Cast-time: ½ second
• Slam the ground with your shield and blind adjacent foes with the resulting dust cloud.
• Damage: 134 (0.5)
• Blind: 5 seconds
• Radius: 180
• Combo Finisher: Blast
  • Using this skill preemptively ends the [Shield Stance] block channel.

[Endure Pain]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 0
• Recharge: 50 seconds
• Stance. While in this stance, you gain 1500 vitality.
• Duration: 5 seconds
• Breaks stun.

[Berserker’s Stance]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 0
• Recharge: 50 seconds
• Stance. While in this stance, incoming conditions on you have reduced durations. Each time you would be affected by a condition, you gain might and fury.
• Duration: 6 seconds
• Condition duration reduction: 50%
• Fury: 2 seconds
• Might (1): 5 seconds
  • Upon using this skill, the Warrior gains two buffs: 1 stack of Berserker’s vitality and 5 stacks of Berserker’s rage. Berserker’s vitality reduces incoming condition duration by 50% for the next 6 seconds. Berserker’s rage grants the warrior fury and might (as described in the skill description) each time that the warrior would come under the effects of a condition. Each time the warrior would be affected by a condition, the stack of Berserker’s rage decreases by 1. If a warrior were to be effected by a condition, but the condition pops up as “immune” due to its duration being reduced beyond the point of being registered, the stack of Berserker’s rage would still decrease by 1 and the warrior would gain the fury and might.

Dogged March (Defense – II)

• Regeneration increased from 3 to 5 seconds.
• The regeneration proc now has a 15-second cool-down.

ENGINEER
[Gear Shield]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 1½ seconds
• Block attacks with a gear shield. If you block three attacks, your gear shield shatters, crippling and bleeding adjacent foes with metal shrapnel.
• Duration: 2 seconds
• Bleeding (3): 5 seconds
• Crippled: 2 seconds
• Radius: 150

[Elixir S]

• Recharged reduced from 60 to 50 seconds.
• Duration reduced from 3 to 2 seconds.
  • Now chains into another skill upon use: [Shoelace Tangle].

[Shoelace Tangle]

• Recharge: 5 seconds
• Cast-time: 1 second
• Tangle up your foe’s feet with wire, knocking your target down.
• Knockdown: 2 seconds
• Range: 100
  • This skill is only active while [Elixir S] is in effect.

[Grenade]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 1 second
• Throw a grenade that explodes.
• Damage: 314 (1.0)
• Explosion radius: 120
• Range: 1200
  • This skill is now a functional auto-attack. This skill uses the Elementalist [Fireball] projectile arc and speed for its grenade(s).
  • Unaffected by the Grenadier trait (Explosives – XI).

[Shrapnel Grenade]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 1 second (channel)
• Recharge: 15 seconds
• Place shrapnel grenades in your hand to throw later. The longer you charge this skill, the more grenades that you throw upon release.
• ½-second channel: 1 grenade
• Full channel: 2 grenades
• Damage per grenade: 179 (0.5)
• Bleeding per grenade (2): 6 seconds
• Explosion radius: 150
• Range: 1200
• Minimum range: 180
  • Equipping the Grenadier trait changes the skill into a 1¼-second channel skill with a third channel tier that throws 3 grenades.

[Flash Grenade]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Recharge: 15 seconds
• Throw a grenade that explodes in a blinding flash.
• Damage: 33 (0.1)
• Blind: 5 seconds
• Explosion radius: 150
• Range: 1200
  • Equipping the Grenadier trait adds a second grenade to the attack.

[Freeze Grenade]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 1 second (channel)
• Recharge: 20 seconds
• Place freeze grenades in your hand to throw. The longer you charge this skill, the more grenades that you throw upon release.
• ½-second channel: 1 grenade
• Full channel: 2 grenades
• Damage per grenade: 179 (0.5)
• Chill per grenade: 2 seconds
• Explosion radius: 180
• Range: 1200
• Minimum range: 180
  • Equipping the Grenadier trait changes the skill into a 1¼-second channel skill with a third channel tier that throws 3 grenades.

[Poison Grenade]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 1 second (channel)
• Recharge: 25 seconds
• Place poison grenades in your hand to throw later. These grenades leave a poisonous cloud behind when they explode.. The longer you charge this skill, the more grenades that you throw upon release.
• ½-second channel: 1 grenade
• Full channel: 2 grenades
• Damage per grenade: 65 (0.2)
• Poison per grenade: 5 seconds
• Poison cloud duration: 5 seconds
• Poison cloud radius: 150
• Combo field: Poison
• Range: 1200
• Minimum range: 180
  • Equipping the Grenadier trait changes the skill into a 1¼-second channel skill with a third channel tier that throws 3 grenades.

[Grenade Barrage]

• Cast-time increased from ½ second to 1 second.
• Added a minimum range: 240

Shrapnel (Explosion – II)

• Chance on hit increased from 15% to 100%.
• Bleeding (1 stack; 12 seconds) changed to Bleeding (3 stacks; 6 seconds).
• Now has a 15-second cool-down.

Precise Sights (Firearms – V)

• Chance increased from 50% to 100%.
• Vulnerability (1 stack; 3 seconds) changed to Vulnerability (5 stacks; 8 seconds)
• Now has a 15-second cool-down.

Incendiary Power (Explosives – IX)

• Recharge increased from 10 to 15 seconds.
• Now, when this trait activates, it summons an invulnerable flame turret near the side of the Engineer (possibly using the same summon detection as [Phantasmal Warlock]). The turret arrives on the field using a miniature [Supply Drop] animation. This flame turret then attacks the Engineers current target with a [Fireball] projectile. The projectile deals no damage, but does inflict the burning described in the trait. The turret explodes after shooting the projectile.

THIEF
[Surprise Shot]

• Recharge increased from 0 to 10 seconds.

[Tactical Strike]

• Recharge increased from 0 to 10 seconds.

[Backstab]

• Recharge increased from 0 to 10 seconds.

[Sneak Attack]

• Recharge increased from 0 to 5 seconds.

[Crippling Strike]

• Damage reduced from 437 (1.3) to 314 (1.0)

[Infiltrator’s Strike]

• Initiative Cost: 4
• Cast-time: 1¼ second
• Dash at your foe to deliver an immobilizing strike. You gain Super Speed if you are in combat when you use this skill.
• Damage: 252 (0.75)
• Immobilize: 1 second
• Super speed: 1 second
• Range: 600
  • Uses the Warrior banner [Sprint] attack animation.
  • If you strike a foe with this skill, it chains into another skill upon use: [Infiltrator’s Return]

[Infiltrator’s Return]

• Initiative Cost: 1
• Cast-time: 0
• Evade backwards and lose 1 condition.
• Evasion: ¾ second
• Evasion distance: 600
  • Condition removal occurs before the backwards evasion roll.
  • This chain skill remains active for 20 seconds.

[Shadow Shot]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Initiative cost: 4
• Fire a shot that marks your target if it hits.
• Damage: 314 (0.3)
• Mark duration: 3 seconds
• Range: 900
  • This skill is no longer unblockable.
  • Now chains into another skill: [Shadow Stab]
  • A small [Shadow Shot] skill icon appears over top of a target marked by [Shadow Shot].

[Shadow Stab]

• Cast-time: ¼ second
• Initiative cost: 1
• Shadowstep to your marked target and stab your foe, inflicting blindness.
• Damage: 92 (0.25)
• Blind: 5 seconds
  • The dagger attack animation is a ½-second long attack animation. The blindness is tied to the dagger strike and not the shadowstep.
  • This chain skill remains active for 3 seconds.

[Pistol Whip]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Initiative cost: 2
• Pistol-whip your target, staggering the foe. If you strike a staggered foe you inflict daze and this skill chains into another skill.
• Damage: 111 (0.3)
• Staggered: 2 seconds
• Daze: ½ second
• Range: 130
  • If this skill strikes a staggered foe, it chains into another skill: [Malicious Assault]

[Malicious Assault]

• Cast-time: 1¼ second
• Initiative cost: 3
• Dash at your foe, leaping and delivering a devastating strike with your sword.
• Damage: 718 (2.5)
• Super Speed: 1 second
• Range: 900
  • This skill uses the Elementalist [Fiery Rush] attack animation.
  • This chain skill remains active for 20 seconds.

[Head Shot]

• Initiative cost increased from 4 to 5.

[Cluster Bomb]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ¾ second
• Initiative cost: 4
• Fire a cluster bomb at target area that deals more damage based on its distance from you.
• Damage inside of 180 range: 179 (0.5)
• Damage outside of 180 range: 487 (1.45)
• Bleeding (1): 4 seconds
• Radius: 240
• Combo Finisher: Blast
• Range: 900
  • The damage is determined upon skill activation rather than when it actually lands.
  • Range indicator changes color based on its distance from the player: yellow when inside of 180 range; green when outside of 180 range.

[Detonate Cluster]

• This chain skill now has an automatic ¾-second cool-down before it can be activated.

[Disabling Shot]

• Initiative cost increased from 4 to 5.

[Choking Gas]

• Radius reduced from 240 to 180.

[Infiltrator’s Signet]

• Active ability FUNCTIONALTY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 0
• Recharge: 30 seconds
• Dash to your foe from within a cloud of smoke.
• Protection: 2 seconds
• Stability: 2 seconds
• Super Speed: 1 second
• Infiltrator’s Signet duration: 2 seconds
• Breaks stun.
• Range: 1200
  • This skill functions like Elementalist [Ride the Lightning] in how it moves the Thief except that it does not strike its target for damage.
  • Thief becomes a cloud of smoke while this skill is active similar to how the Elementalist turns into a ball of lightning.

Cloaked in Shadow (Shadow Arts – VI)

• Now has a 10-second internal cool-down.

ENGINEER PISTOL
Explosive Shot

• Damage increased from 118 (0.35) to 169 (0.5).
• Cast-time increased from ½ second to ¾ second.
• After-cast adjusted from (current?) to 0.1 second.

Poison Dart Volley

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Recharge: 15 seconds
• Fire an arcing bomb from your pistol that explodes at target area, leaving a cloud that poisons foes.
• Explosion damage: 418 (1.3)
• Explosion poison: 3 seconds
• Explosion radius: 180
• Cloud duration: 3 seconds
• Cloud poison (3): 2 seconds
• Combo Field: Poison
• Minimum range: 180
• Range: 1200
  • This projectile arcs through the air. Projectile speed is 50% faster than that of the Warrior’s [Arcing Arrow].
  • This skill chains into another skill upon completion: [Detonate Poison Bomb].

Detonate Poison Bomb

• Cast-time: 1 second
• Detonate your poison bomb in midair, raining down poisonous shrapnel onto the area below it.
• Small explosion: 165 (0.5)
• Poison: 3 seconds
• Number of impacts: 3
• Radius: 240
  • Uses the same mechanics as the Thief [Detonate Cluster] skill.
  • This skill has an automatic ¾-second long cool-down imposed upon it upon chaining to prevent immediate spam of this skill.

Blowtorch

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 2¼ seconds
• Recharge: 15 seconds
• Channel a cone of flames from your pistol. The final burst of flame from this attack deals more damage the closer you are to your targets.
• First 3 hits damage (3x): 495 (0.5)
• Final burst at 200-600 range: Damage: 165 (0.5); Burning: 2 seconds
• Final burst at 0-200 range: Damage: 510 (0.9); Burning: 5 seconds
• Range: 600
  • Hits up to 5 foes.

ENGINEER RIFLE
Blunderbuss

• Cast-time increased from ½ second to ¾ second.

Overcharged Shot

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 1¼ second
• Recharge: 15 seconds
• Fire a blast so strong that it knocks back both you and your target. You also cure immobilized, crippled and chilled. This blast’s effect is stronger based on how long that you channel it.
• Damage: 386 (1.0)
• Self knock-back distance: 300
• ¼-second channel: Foe knock-back distance: 450
• Full channel: Foe launch distance: 450
• Range: 400

RANGER
[Crossfire]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ¾ second
• Fire an arrow. Bleed your target if you hit them from behind or from the side.
• Damage: 211 (0.5)
• Bleeding (1): 3 seconds
• Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (20% chance)
• Range: 900
  • After-cast adjusted to 0.25 second.

[Poison Volley (first volley)]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ¾ second
• Recharge: 12 seconds
• Fire an arcing arrow that explodes at target location, leaving behind a cloud that poisons foes.
• Explosion damage: 252 (0.75)
• Explosion radius: 180
• Cloud poison (2): 2 seconds
• Cloud duration: 2 seconds
• Cloud radius: 180
• Minimum range: 180
• Range: 900
  • This skill chains into another skill upon completion: [Poison Volley (second volley)]

[Poison Volley (second volley)]

• Cast-time: ¾ second
• Fire an arcing arrow that explodes at target location, leaving behind a cloud that poisons foes.
• Explosion damage: 252 (0.75)
• Explosion radius: 180
• Cloud poison (2): 2 seconds
• Cloud duration: 2 seconds
• Cloud radius: 180
• Minimum range: 180
• Range: 900
  • This skill chains into another skill upon completion: [Poison Volley (third volley)]

[Poison Volley (third volley)]

• Cast-time: ¾ second
• Fire an arcing arrow that explodes at target location, leaving behind a cloud that poisons foes.
• Explosion damage: 252 (0.75)
• Explosion radius: 180
• Cloud poison (2): 2 seconds
• Cloud duration: 2 seconds
• Cloud radius: 180
• Range: 900
  • This use of this skill sends the skill chain into full recharge.
  • This final chain skill has no minimum range.

[Quick Shot]

• Recharge increased from 9 to 12 seconds.
• Swiftness increased from 3 to 5 seconds.
• Retreat distance increased from (current?) to 240 range.

[Crippling Shot]

• FUNTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 1½ seconds
• Recharge: 15 seconds
• Charge up a shot that cripples foes. The longer you charge this shot, the more powerful it becomes.
• ½ second channel: Damage: 111 (0.3); Crippled: 2 seconds
• 1 second channel: Damage: 229 (0.5); Crippled: 3 seconds
• Full channel: Damage: 279 (0.75); Crippled: 5 seconds; Your pet’s next three attacks inflict bleeding (5 seconds).
• Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
• Range: 900

HEALING SKILLS
Shelter

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 2¼ seconds
• Recharge: 30 seconds
• Gain a shield that blocks up to 3 attacks while you channel a spell to heal yourself.
• Healing (5x): 5000 (0.7)
• Channel duration: 2 seconds
• Shield duration: 2 seconds

Healing Breeze

• Recharge lowered from 40 to 25 seconds.
• Self-healing lowered from 6525 (1.0) to 4850 (1.0)
• The final channel pulse now removes up to 2 conditions from the Guardian and allies inside the cone.

Signet of Resolve

• Cast-time increased from 1 second to 1¼ seconds.
• Recharge lowered from 40 to 30 seconds.
• Healing lowered from 8,150 (1.25) to 6,050 (1.25)

Healing Surge

• Cast-time increased from 1 second to 1½ seconds.

Elixir H

• Cast-time increased from 1 second to 1¼ seconds.

Healing Turret

• Cast-time increased from ½ second to 1 second.

Healing Spring

• Cast-time increased from ½ second to 1 second.

Hide in Shadows

• Cast-time increased from 1 second to 1¼ seconds.

Consume Conditions

• Cast-time increased from 1¼ seconds to 1½ seconds.

Well of Blood

• Cast-time increased from 1 second to 1¼ seconds.
• Recharge lowered from 40 to 30 seconds.
• Duration lowed from 10 to 5 seconds.
• Field is now a water field instead of light field.
• Healing per second generated by the field increased from 152 (0.4) to 252 (0.5).
• Now converts up to 2 conditions into boons upon use.
  • Well of Blood uses the [Well of Power] condition-into-boon conversion table.

STABILITY

• Now stacks in intensity and not in duration. Each stack of stability negates one instance of a control effect. Stability can stack up to a maximum of 10 times.
• Using an elite that provides stability ([Tornado], [Rampage as One], [Dagger Storm], etc.) now grants 3 stacks of Stability.

NEW CONDITION – Staggered

• Players afflicted with Staggered cannot gain Stability.
• Staggered does not stack. Any new instance of staggered applied to a creature that is already staggered will simply overwrite the old instance.

THIEF
[Body Shot]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED (again)
• Initiative cost: 3
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Shoot a bullet that inflicts vulnerability. If you strike a foe with at least 10 stacks of vulnerability, you also stagger that foe.
• Damage: 129 (0.3)
• Vulnerability (5): 6 seconds
• Staggered: 3 seconds
  • Skill checks for vulnerability stacks before applying vulnerability stacks. To this effect, the Thief would have to use this skill 3 times in order to inflict staggered by him/herself.

[Tactical Strike]

• Recharge increased from 0 to 10 seconds.
• Now inflicts 3 seconds of staggered if you strike your foe from behind.

[Needle Trap]

• Now inflicts 4 seconds of staggered.

[Tripwire]

• Now inflicts 4 seconds of staggered.

[Scorpion Wire]

• Now inflicts 3 seconds of staggered.

WARRIOR
[Crushing Blow]

• Now inflicts 3 seconds of staggered.

[Fierce Blow]

• Cast-time increased from ¾ second to 1 second.
• Now inflicts 2 seconds of staggered.

[Backbreaker]

• Cast-time increased from 1 second to 1¼ second.
• Added a unique visual cue to help further distinguish this skill from [Crushing Blow].

[Kick]

• Now inflicts 3 seconds of staggered.

[Stomp]

• Now inflicts 3 seconds of staggered.

ELEMENTALIST
[Ride the Lightning]

• Recharge reduced from 40 to 30 seconds.
• Recharge reduction on hit reduced from 50% to 33%.
• Now inflicts 3 seconds of staggered.

[Comet]

• Now uses ground-targeting.
• Damage increased from 239 to 386 (1.0).
• Now stuns (1 second) if it strikes a chilled foe.
• Now inflicts 4 seconds of staggered.

[Shockwave]

• Recharge reduced from 30 to 25 seconds.
• Cast-time reduced from ¾ to ½ second.
• Bleed stacks changed from 1 stack for 20 seconds to 3 stacks for 12 seconds.
• Now inflicts 4 seconds of staggered.

[Arcane Wave]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Conjure a ring of arcane energy around target area. After 1 second, the ring explodes, blasting and staggering foes in the area for critical damage.
• Delay: 1 second
• Damage: 628
• Staggered: 3 seconds
• Combo Finisher: Blast
• Radius: 360
• Range: 900
  • The ring floats just off the ground and highlights the area targeted by [Arcane Wave].
  • Delay ring shares its coloration with [Arcane Blast]’s projectile.

reserved for future use

Holy waste, dude! Thats a lot, though i havent read completely through it all, i commend you for the hard work, though I dont think many of these changes will be taken into consideration considering how strong they are. Good luck, mate!

He posted similar suggestions in the Necromancer forums a little while back. The post here does not include the “functional make over” to fear that he included there and he has modified some of his ideas.

I will not comment on most of these ideas as this was already done in his previous thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necromancer-Balance-Suggestions/first#post3315372

There is one thing I cannot avoid commenting on, however. Is the animation for spinal shivers really so unreadable that it requires a projectile? It is one of the more obvious animations in the game and using an offhand focus regularly, I constantly see players recognize the animation and dodge accordingly.

Not gonna lie, the thief changes are absolutely garbage. Better kick thieves further down the hierarchy of classes.

Arganthium.5638:

Not gonna lie, the thief changes are absolutely garbage. Better kick thieves further down the hierarchy of classes.

Adding recharge mechanism on top of initiative is a little bit excessive, I agree.

But I fully support a COMPLETE rebuild of thief class, scrapping the entire stealth and stealth attack mechanism to let it fight head on like other classes.

I really feel players are investing more time per person in analyzing the game and redesinging flawed systems than the actual developers. This is very sad.

Arganthium.5638:

Not gonna lie, the thief changes are absolutely garbage. Better kick thieves further down the hierarchy of classes.

Unreadable offensive skills are unfair. That’s the change to [Infiltrator’s Strike].

Unblockable free movement that has a higher base damage that [Meteor Shower] and also blinds is overtuned. That’s the changed to [Shadow Shot].

Spammable high AoE damage without a real post-cast delay is overpowered. That’s the change to [Cluster Bomb].

Getting to spam powerful attacks with impunity even if someone dodges them, line of sights you or you just start spamming them from outside of range because you can is broken. That is the change to Stealth-triggered 1 skills.

Spammable invulnerability is overpowered. That’s the change to [Pistol Whip].

Excalibur.9748:

Arganthium.5638:

Not gonna lie, the thief changes are absolutely garbage. Better kick thieves further down the hierarchy of classes.

Adding recharge mechanism on top of initiative is a little bit excessive, I agree.

But I fully support a COMPLETE rebuild of thief class, scrapping the entire stealth and stealth attack mechanism to let it fight head on like other classes.

It’s a real shame that this is what Thief needs. However, ANet will never do it because “it’s too hard.” The entire class is utter garbage and will never truly be both fair and effective at the same time. Truly it is the worst class and ANet will never fix it.

Sepreh.5924:

He posted similar suggestions in the Necromancer forums a little while back. The post here does not include the “functional make over” to fear that he included there and he has modified some of his ideas.

I will not comment on most of these ideas as this was already done in his previous thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necromancer-Balance-Suggestions/first#post3315372

There is one thing I cannot avoid commenting on, however. Is the animation for spinal shivers really so unreadable that it requires a projectile? It is one of the more obvious animations in the game and using an offhand focus regularly, I constantly see players recognize the animation and dodge accordingly.

The thing about Necromancer skills is that most of the meta-game Necromancer burst is effectively a ranged backstab. Nobody ever sees it coming because there are 0 tells present at the point at which the effects trigger. A player is just suddenly coated in conditions and running in the opposite direction. In this regard, I’m talking team fights. Necromancers swing team fights like crazy because perfectly identifying range between two players or properly CC’ing a player in the middle of a fight (when most CC is probably on cool-down) is very difficult.

The goal with these changes is to make skills more readable without completely destroying them.

The Warrior suggestions are actually plausible.

Swagg.9236:

Unreadable offensive skills are unfair. That’s the change to [Infiltrator’s Strike].

Unblockable free movement that has a higher base damage that [Meteor Shower] and also blinds is overtuned. That’s the changed to [Shadow Shot].

Spammable high AoE damage without a real post-cast delay is overpowered. That’s the change to [Cluster Bomb].

Getting to spam powerful attacks with impunity even if someone dodges them, line of sights you or you just start spamming them from outside of range because you can is broken. That is the change to Stealth-triggered 1 skills.

Spammable invulnerability is overpowered. That’s the change to [Pistol Whip].

Excalibur.9748:

Arganthium.5638:

Not gonna lie, the thief changes are absolutely garbage. Better kick thieves further down the hierarchy of classes.

Adding recharge mechanism on top of initiative is a little bit excessive, I agree.

But I fully support a COMPLETE rebuild of thief class, scrapping the entire stealth and stealth attack mechanism to let it fight head on like other classes.

It’s a real shame that this is what Thief needs. However, ANet will never do it because “it’s too hard.” The entire class is utter garbage and will never truly be both fair and effective at the same time. Truly it is the worst class and ANet will never fix it.

Infi Strike has an absolutely dismal skill coefficient of .75, less than the auto attack, and while the animation isn’t exactly readable, the times when it’s being used or about to be used is. Also, no reason for such a low-damage attack with a very small immob (small enough that it’s basically over by the time you’ve finished the after cast) that costs a lot of initiative to be considered “unfair”, especially since “unfair” seems more like a personal viewpoint than a logically based one.

Shadow Shot has a fairly obvious animation (the blinding shot, which does no damage, comes before the actual damaging animation occurs), and in fact does less damage than Meteor Shower does (coefficient of ~1.25 vs ~1.43). The difference is that Meteor Shower is a fairly obvious skill but still has a large AoE that does decent damage, while Shadow Shot is a lot easier to hit but is only single-target. Furthermore, the blind is fairly short (and will probably end if you swing your sword as soon as the projectile hits you, since your opponent will be teleported to you), and only the movement is unblock able; you can evade the skill entirely and completely ruin the teleport as well. Furthermore, if you lay down an AoE as your opponent hits you with SShot, then your opponent could very well land right where you want him or her to.

Cluster Bomb has the most obvious animation ever (extremely slow projectile moving in a long, arcing path that’s flashing on and off and lights up the area where it’s about to land), and the time required to wait between shots (unless you blow up the CB every single time you use it, which isn’t necessarily optimal) is more than enough to justify the fact that it does a decent bit of damage for an AoE (but it does fairly low damage for a non-auto attack that doesn’t deal lots of condi damage/remove condis/etc). Maybe a small nerf is required, but certainly not 12.5%. I wouldn’t argue for anything over 5%.

BS does less damage than a level 2 Eviscerate, and is more predictable than one as well (since it takes longer to prepare the combination). Stealth makes protecting/capping a point exceedingly difficult, and the amount of initiative required for a BS combo and stealth is quite high. Furthermore, you can still deal damage to enemies while they’re stealthed; they can’t without breaking stealth. You can also see when you’ve evaded a BS, which generally allows you to know the thief’s location and makes the combination much more difficult to land. As for the other major stealth attack, Sneak Attack, you just allow yourself to be hit by one, maybe two of the projectiles, evade the rest, and you’ve taken minimal damage while your opponent is revealed.

PW is far from being a “spammable invulnerability”; of the S/P thieves I’ve seen, they say that it is not in fact their main source of damage, but more of an interrupt skill and an occasional burst. Like any other rooting skill, PW makes you extremely vulnerable at the end of your animation, especially with aftercast, because your opponent can basically pin you down. PW also costs a load of initiative.

Arganthium.5638:

Infi Strike has an absolutely dismal skill coefficient of .75, less than the auto attack, and while the animation isn’t exactly readable, the times when it’s being used or about to be used is. Also, no reason for such a low-damage attack with a very small immob (small enough that it’s basically over by the time you’ve finished the after cast) that costs a lot of initiative to be considered “unfair”, especially since “unfair” seems more like a personal viewpoint than a logically based one.

Immobilize usually has either no damage attached to it, very low damage attached to it or has a projectile (outside of passive trait procs). [Infiltrator’s Strike] goes against all of these commonalities. It’s an instant-travel, no cast-time [Savage Leap] that inflicts immobilize.

Furthermore, you argue that the sword auto-attack is also balanced. [Crippling Strike]
deals astronomical damage for an auto-attack that complete outclasses every other example in the game. The only auto-attack in near competition is the Necromancer dagger auto-attack, however, the only thing with Necromancer dagger main-hand is that you can see those players coming and thus it’s more balanced.

Arganthium.5638:

Shadow Shot has a fairly obvious animation (the blinding shot, which does no damage, comes before the actual damaging animation occurs), and in fact does less damage than Meteor Shower does (coefficient of ~1.25 vs ~1.43). The difference is that Meteor Shower is a fairly obvious skill but still has a large AoE that does decent damage, while Shadow Shot is a lot easier to hit but is only single-target. Furthermore, the blind is fairly short (and will probably end if you swing your sword as soon as the projectile hits you, since your opponent will be teleported to you), and only the movement is unblock able; you can evade the skill entirely and completely ruin the teleport as well. Furthermore, if you lay down an AoE as your opponent hits you with SShot, then your opponent could very well land right where you want him or her to.

Blind is incredibly powerful. It gives the Thief effective impunity for the follow up attack. Five seconds of blind is not short. That’s more than enough to negate a follow up attack and it would be an incredibly poor decision to wait out 5 seconds of blind vs anyone given the typical speed of GW2 combat.

Are you seriously arguing that [Meteor Shower]-tier damage is not a big deal just because it’s single target? And it doesn’t have a cool-down? And it’s unblockable?

Also, are you really sure that you know how [Shadow Shot] works? ANet made the bullet unblockable to prevent players from teleporting to thieves and interrupting their attacks as a result of proper use of reflect. However, instead of really fixing anything, they just gave thief free [Meteor Shower] damage that also blinds and provides free movement to a target.

One should be able to block or reflect the movement-triggering projectile. Breaking this skill down into a two-part chain could help this.

Arganthium.5638:

Cluster Bomb has the most obvious animation ever (extremely slow projectile moving in a long, arcing path that’s flashing on and off and lights up the area where it’s about to land), and the time required to wait between shots (unless you blow up the CB every single time you use it, which isn’t necessarily optimal) is more than enough to justify the fact that it does a decent bit of damage for an AoE (but it does fairly low damage for a non-auto attack that doesn’t deal lots of condi damage/remove condis/etc). Maybe a small nerf is required, but certainly not 12.5%. I wouldn’t argue for anything over 5%.

Cluster bomb has effectively no delay when activated within melee range. It works in the same manner as Warrior’s [Arcing Arrow]. People just walk up to a player and use it and it happens. The fact that it can be spammed because it’s a Thief skill is what makes it so broken. By making the skill do less damage at short range, the skill is preserved as a powerful point DPS assist skill as well as a melee-range blast-spam skill, but it no longer works as a super-powerful PBAoE spam. You would actually have to aim it from some distance for it to have high AoE damage.

Arganthium.5638:

BS does less damage than a level 2 Eviscerate, and is more predictable than one as well (since it takes longer to prepare the combination). Stealth makes protecting/capping a point exceedingly difficult, and the amount of initiative required for a BS combo and stealth is quite high. Furthermore, you can still deal damage to enemies while they’re stealthed; they can’t without breaking stealth. You can also see when you’ve evaded a BS, which generally allows you to know the thief’s location and makes the combination much more difficult to land. As for the other major stealth attack, Sneak Attack, you just allow yourself to be hit by one, maybe two of the projectiles, evade the rest, and you’ve taken minimal damage while your opponent is revealed.

You’re discussing the wrong thing here. These changes aren’t about raw damage nerfing, it’s about making skills more readable and punishing players for bad play. Quoting damage numbers has no bearing on most of this entire argument.

Stealth-triggered 1 skills are the most broken skills in this game. They’re predictable, yes, but a Thief can miss multiple Stealth-triggered 1 skills yet are instantly forgiven because they have no internal cool-downs. So long as you don’t do damage, you get to endlessly spam them until they hit. That should be fixed.

Arganthium.5638:

PW is far from being a “spammable invulnerability”; of the S/P thieves I’ve seen, they say that it is not in fact their main source of damage, but more of an interrupt skill and an occasional burst. Like any other rooting skill, PW makes you extremely vulnerable at the end of your animation, especially with aftercast, because your opponent can basically pin you down. PW also costs a load of initiative.

It’s a [Blurred Frenzy] without a cool-down that stuns. It’s a great way to sit in AoE for a free two seconds. Also, you really do look at these skills without taking other things into scope. Just because the wind-up is a 3/4 second (which really isn’t that much compared to what it gives a player), thieves still get [Shadowstep], [Withdraw], [Infiltrator’s Signet], [Steal], maybe [Disabling Shot] or even [Infiltrator’s Return] to maneuver while invulnerable or as it wears off. This is also not counting Thieves’ reliable access to blind skills.

Since most AoE’s pulse on a 1-second interval, it’s very easy to negate a lot of damage or effects by buying time with [Pistol Whip] and following it up with something else. Since this skill has no cool-down, it often makes hitting with AoE very difficult. Making the invulnerability attack tied to hitting with [Pistol Whip] would fix this.

The Necromancer suggestions all seem reasonable (I’d take that Axe any day), except for Dhuumfire – I just don’t think animating a support model for a trait is a good idea. Moreover, Dhuumfire procs on hit, not on attack, so the animation would have to trigger after the server registered the attack, which brings into question when exactly the burning is applied. I also think it would be odd to have Dhuumfire have its own attack animation as it would make it seem dodge-able.

If anything, I think that what Dhuumfire could do as far as revealing its proc in terms of animation would be to simply have the target(s) explode in green fire similar to Flame Burst (Ele Staff #3 in Fire) on hit. The animation already exists, so they would only have to play with shading, and it would also trigger on hit, along with the applied burning.

I really like the Staff Ele changes. Gust as it is, is useless. And the 2 + 4 combo would be neat.

Swagg.9236:

Immobilize usually has either no damage attached to it, very low damage attached to it or has a projectile (outside of passive trait procs). [Infiltrator’s Strike] goes against all of these commonalities. It’s an instant-travel, no cast-time [Savage Leap] that inflicts immobilize.

You fail to realize the actual scope of IS’s actual abilities, and its value in the context of sword builds. For instance, many of those no-damage or low-damage immobs also have immobs longer than just 1 second, such as the engi’s Net Shot, which deals 2 seconds of immob at a longer range, and the engi’s rifle also has high-damage attacks which benefit greatly from having an immobilized opponent. Immob does not give Sword builds many benefits (particularly since the aftercast on IS is too long for the immob to be utilized very well, often), and the range and technically speaking, the CD, are both worse than those of Net Shot. Another similar skill is Mesmer’s sword’s Illusionary Leap/Swap to Blurred Frenzy combo. Swap, to my best recollection, does not have a cast, and so the Blurred Frenzy combo can work well (and even more so because swap has a 2 sec immob as well). On the other hand, again- such combos are difficult with thief if only because of the fact that IS has a long aftercast. Other skills that have longer immobs, have immobs that work better for the weaponset, and/or do more damage include Warrior’s Pin Down and Flurry, Ele’s Shock Wave, Necro’s Dark Pact, and Guard’s Chain of Light. While skills like Pin Down are harshly criticized, the others here are, for the most part, not criticized. To pin that all down on the fact that they’re projectiles or whatever is simply inaccurate; the trade off is that they don’t have to deal with aftercasts ruining any chance of utilizing the immobs, they have longer ranges, they have longer immobs, do more damage, and/or work better with the set.

Furthermore, there is certainly no way for you to compare between Infi Strike and Savage Leap and determine that IS is superior. To the contrary, the Leap Finisher on Savage Leap, the 3s cripple (a highly underrated condition), and the low CD (whether you realize it or not, thief skills have a CD- simply spamming them is a ticket to losing) make this skill very good, and more so in the light that the Warrior’s Sword has an extremely good auto attack and an absolutely ridiculous #3 skill.

Furthermore, you argue that the sword auto-attack is also balanced. [Crippling Strike]
deals astronomical damage for an auto-attack that complete outclasses every other example in the game. The only auto-attack in near competition is the Necromancer dagger auto-attack, however, the only thing with Necromancer dagger main-hand is that you can see those players coming and thus it’s more balanced.

That post requires a lot of fairly wild assumptions to even attempt to justify. For instance, in WvW, I can deal a heck of a lot more damage with ele’s Fireball than I can with thief’s sword’s auto attack when the ele is standing on a wall.

Even so, your statement still lacks sight into a number of other variables. For instance, what about alternative effects (such as conditions, evades, cast times, AoE, etc) on other weapons for other classes? There are some extremely large aftercasts on the thief’s auto on sword (you can check out Jumper’s work on the subject to determine that, since that’s his speciality, although I’ve delved into the area with my own personal studies as well)- how does that fit into the context of other weapons? What about boon strips, the aforementioned range, and the value of the auto in the context of other weapon skills for the weapon set? As for your Necro example- if you can’t see a thief coming after you with his massive aftercasts on his sword, and you can’t predict that he’s going to hit the third auto in his chain, but you can see the same thing for a necro, then, as much as I hate to use this expression, it’s a L2P issue. Even with thief’s teleport, it’s not like the auto chain has some kind of 0s animation.

In fact, even your statement by itself is simply wrong. Guardian’s GS, mace, and sword and Warr’s Axe and Hammer have stronger auto chains in and of themselves, yet they have their own weaknesses just as Sword does. Then there’s considering Fire Ele’s Scepter auto, which deals burn at range, and so forth.

Blind is incredibly powerful. It gives the Thief effective impunity for the follow up attack. Five seconds of blind is not short. That’s more than enough to negate a follow up attack and it would be an incredibly poor decision to wait out 5 seconds of blind vs anyone given the typical speed of GW2 combat.

Are you seriously arguing that [Meteor Shower]-tier damage is not a big deal just because it’s single target? And it doesn’t have a cool-down? And it’s unblockable?

Also, are you really sure that you know how [Shadow Shot] works? ANet made the bullet unblockable to prevent players from teleporting to thieves and interrupting their attacks as a result of proper use of reflect. However, instead of really fixing anything, they just gave thief free [Meteor Shower] damage that also blinds and provides free movement to a target.

One should be able to block or reflect the movement-triggering projectile. Breaking this skill down into a two-part chain could help this.

Hmm. There are a lot of things wrong with this.

First of all, if you consider things such as, say, using warr’s shield 5 to block for three seconds, or using Guard’s Renewed Focus, or whatever, 5 seconds really isn’t that long. More importantly, however, it only prevents one attack, and the simple counter to that is simply to just auto once and then continue doing what you were planning on doing before.

Secondly, as I told you… Meteor Shower deals more damage than SShot. Furthermore, if you think that this is something unique to thief, it’s not. Ranger’s Maul does more damage, as well as (to list out some skills across various professions: Lightning Surge, Eruption, Rush, Fierce Blow, Counterblow, Final Thrust (>50% health), Counterattack, Putrid Mark, Orb of Light, and Faithful Strike, and I neglected to mention skills that either did 1) lots of condition damage as opposed to direct damage or 2) did far more damage than Meteor Shower did. This isn’t some kind of end-all be-all argument that you’re making here; if you were arguing about something doing the damage of at least a level 2 Eviscerate, then that would be an entirely different discussion.

Thirdly- and this is probably the most important point for you to take away- Shadow Shot is not unblockable. The blind can’t be blocked, but the damage can. Go test it out yourself. Until you decide to do some actual research (instead of just looking at the wiki or gw2skills.net, I don’t feel much of a need to respond to the rest of your post; honestly, I feel that it would be meaningless to do so.

I really don’t get why people think they can balance classes without even playing them.
I’d like the OP to make a thief and play some tpvp against competent players, not only wvw heroes with zerg builds.

But hey, thieves have an absolutely overpowered skill (shadow shot) wich is basically a free meteor shower!
And everyting without cooldown!!11
Hell, pistol whip is 150% evasion uptime and you can spam it all day long, there is no cooldown!
Who needs more than 10k base health? Pfft, thats for noobs who can’t hit their 3 key fast enough to spam invulnerability!
Who needs high armor? Defensive boons? Blocks? Whatever? Thieves have unpredictable and very high damage (the damage is even higher than meteor shower!) and everthing without cooldown! It’s not fair that every other class drops like a fly if somebody sneezes at them.

Stealth and stealth attacks are SO OP because every time i enter stealth my enemys freeze and are unable to move, so unless i suddenly have to sneeze 3 times in a row, i always land a very nice backstab.
(tactical strike so op btw)

Did i mention that thieves can spam their attacks because they have no cooldown? :O

Obviously somebody here got killed by some mean wvw thieves.

Paulo.8459:

I really don’t get why people think they can balance classes without even playing them.
I’d like the OP to make a thief and play some tpvp against competent players, not only wvw heroes with zerg builds.

But hey, thieves have an absolutely overpowered skill (shadow shot) wich is basically a free meteor shower!
And everyting without cooldown!!11
Hell, pistol whip is 150% evasion uptime and you can spam it all day long, there is no cooldown!
Who needs more than 10k base health? Pfft, thats for noobs who can’t hit their 3 key fast enough to spam invulnerability!
Who needs high armor? Defensive boons? Blocks? Whatever? Thieves have unpredictable and very high damage (the damage is even higher than meteor shower!) and everthing without cooldown! It’s not fair that every other class drops like a fly if somebody sneezes at them.

Stealth and stealth attacks are SO OP because every time i enter stealth my enemys freeze and are unable to move, so unless i suddenly have to sneeze 3 times in a row, i always land a very nice backstab.
(tactical strike so op btw)

Did i mention that thieves can spam their attacks because they have no cooldown? :O

Obviously somebody here got killed by some mean wvw thieves.

Not to mention- Shadow Shot is an unblockable Meteor Shower!

Everyone and their mother things that they have the miracle suggestion that will balance the game. What makes your suggestions worthwhile or credible. Have you played for any professional teams in any other games besides GW2? What makes your expertise better than every other self-proclaimed know-it-all.

Arganthium.5638:

You fail to realize the actual scope of IS’s actual abilities, and its value in the context of sword builds. For instance, many of those no-damage or low-damage immobs also have immobs longer than just 1 second, such as the engi’s Net Shot, which deals 2 seconds of immob at a longer range, and the engi’s rifle also has high-damage attacks which benefit greatly from having an immobilized opponent. Immob does not give Sword builds many benefits

Immobilize gives you a free hit.

Arganthium.5638:

(particularly since the aftercast on IS is too long for the immob to be utilized very well, often)

I was able to reliably get [Pistol Whip] off on players. There’s no after-cast. There’s “after-cast” but no more than what you would get from a regular auto-attack. It’s not nearly as bad as you make it sound. You get a free follow-up hit out of it. Given that that free hit is attached to [Savage Leap] damage, has no activation cue and can hit you from 600 range, it’s rather broken.

Arganthium.5638:

and the range and technically speaking, the CD, are both worse than those of Net Shot.

[Net Shot] actually has rather poor tracking and the projectile tends to go astray if used at a range of 600 or more. It’s best used against stationary targets or targets that are rather close to you.

Arganthium.5638:

Mesmer’s sword’s Illusionary Leap/Swap to Blurred Frenzy combo…

This attack is clone dependent. You can CC the clone or destroy it. You can also see the clone perform a very obvious leap animation toward you. It’s balanced in that it has a blatant cue that can be dodged or even outright stopped in its tracks via CC or raw damage.

Arganthium.5638:

Warrior’s Pin Down

I’ve already suggested a skill functionality change for this as a nerf.

Arganthium.5638:

Flurry

The player has a walk up to you to perform this skill. That’s the innate balance. Warriors don’t get direct-to-target teleports.

Arganthium.5638:

Ele’s Shock Wave

This uses a projectile that can be blocked and reflected. It also as a 3/4-second cast-time which can be difficult to get off in a pinch.

Arganthium.5638:

Necro’s Dark Pact

This skill has a long cast-time and a VERY unique animation cue. Despite it having no projectile, I could almost argue that it were balanced.

Arganthium.5638:

Guard’s Chain of Light

This is actually a very powerful skill. However, with a 20-second cool-down compounded by the fact that it’s often used as an opener skill when people have most of their free movement and condition removal skills off cool-down, it’s often negated. However, I still won’t discount it as being incredibly powerful and borderline broken since it doesn’t use a projectile and only has a 1/2-second cast-time.

Arganthium.5638:

To pin that all down on the fact that they’re projectiles or whatever is simply inaccurate

It is not. Projectiles have to travel. [Infiltrator’s Strike] has no identifiable cast-time, no travel time and also inflicts considerable damage. This is why it’s so imbalanced.

Arganthium.5638:

Warrior’s Sword has an extremely good auto attack and an absolutely ridiculous #3 skill.

Again, you have to actually step up to somebody and use that skill. It also has a considerable wind-up and unique activation animation.

Arganthium.5638:

That post requires a lot of fairly wild assumptions to even attempt to justify.

Thief with 2,853 power yields a 877 base damage [Crippling Strike] in PvP without any other modifiers. It also inflicts cripple and weakness. Elementalist with 3,310 power yields a 754 base damage [Fireball] in PvP without any other modifiers.

Arganthium.5638:

For instance, in WvW, I can deal a heck of a lot more damage with ele’s Fireball than I can with thief’s sword’s auto attack when the ele is standing on a wall.

One doesn’t make comparisons without fixing variables. Your situational circumstances mean nothing.

You’re not making any real arguments against my main point: cue-less ranged attacks without projectiles in GW2 are broken and should be readjusted to balance game-play. There are a lot of skills like this. They all should be looked at critically.

Arganthium.5638:

First of all, if you consider things such as, say, using warr’s shield 5 to block for three seconds, or using Guard’s Renewed Focus, or whatever, 5 seconds really isn’t that long. More importantly, however, it only prevents one attack, and the simple counter to that is simply to just auto once and then continue doing what you were planning on doing before.

You’re being ridiculous if you think that a single full attack negation isn’t powerful. Moreover, with the levels of blind accessible to the Thief, it’s often possible to temporarily gain immunity to attacks in melee under the right conditions since blind now only goes away after a player strikes with an attack that would have actually hit.

Arganthium.5638:

Secondly, as I told you… Meteor Shower deals more damage than SShot. Furthermore, if you think that this is something unique to thief, it’s not. Ranger’s Maul does more damage, as well as (to list out some skills across various professions: Lightning Surge, Eruption, Rush, Fierce Blow, Counterblow, Final Thrust (>50% health), Counterattack, Putrid Mark, Orb of Light, and Faithful Strike, and I neglected to mention skills that either did 1) lots of condition damage as opposed to direct damage or 2) did far more damage than Meteor Shower did. This isn’t some kind of end-all be-all argument that you’re making here; if you were arguing about something doing the damage of at least a level 2 Eviscerate, then that would be an entirely different discussion.

Alright, let me back away from the damage then. While damage is an important factor in a skill, its utility and counter-playability is also crucial. [Shadow Shot] has effectively no counter-play to it. You can block the follow-up stab for high damage, but is that really a win since the Thief still gets free movement to you and you are now blind? The Thief still comes on top in this situation. It’s a free one-up on a target player and there’s no proper counter to it. It needs a nerf. Breaking that into a two-part skill chain will fix it.

Arganthium.5638:

Thirdly- and this is probably the most important point for you to take away- Shadow Shot is not unblockable. The blind can’t be blocked, but the damage can. Go test it out yourself. Until you decide to do some actual research (instead of just looking at the wiki or gw2skills.net, I don’t feel much of a need to respond to the rest of your post; honestly, I feel that it would be meaningless to do so.

The blind and teleport is the most powerful part of this skill. The fact that the thief gets free movement to a target on top of blinding that target is why this skill is imbalanced. The projectile can’t be blocked, it can’t be reflected, and it can’t even be destroyed.

Once again, you’re missing the point of these skill changes. These thief skill changes related to [Infiltrator’s Strike] and [Shadow Shot] aren’t necessarily about raw damage, but rather addressing the issue of free, uncounterable movement to a target (that is often followed up by free hits on said target either via immobilize or blind).

There was a reason that shadowsteps in GW1 were given a 3/4-second after-cast. Also, those shadowsteps never had any immediate damage tied to them. Shadowstep mechanics are incredibly strong—borderline broken—and adding anything on top of that simple free direct-to-target movement is asking for balance troubles.

Geff.1930:

Everyone and their mother things that they have the miracle suggestion that will balance the game. What makes your suggestions worthwhile or credible.

ANet mentioned that they wanted to design GW2 with visual cues in mind. They wanted to make a game in which you could read an opponent by the effects given off by their skills. However, even with this supposed MO for skill design, there are mountains of skills in this game that break this rule leading to ranged burst that has no effective counter-play. I can see this. I can address it.

Geff.1930:

Have you played for any professional teams in any other games besides GW2?

You’re complaining to a McDonald’s frycook that he’s not making your burger like the guy at Burger King makes it. We’re talking about GW2 here. Other games (aside from maybe GW1) have little relevance.

i bet noone except players will care about this thread. why wasting so much time and effort for something that will never used by anet?

anyway i think , always, that posting that kind of deep explained reworks will never be used by anet. if u want to be read and used you must write some general point of view of what is wrong with the game mechanics, then anet will think about fix it in the wrong way.

This probably its the best post about balance i ever read on this forums. And i´ve read many of them.
Good work.

BakiSaN.9281:

I really feel players are investing more time per person in analyzing the game and redesinging flawed systems than the actual developers. This is very sad.

If you’re not sitting beside the developers each day, you shouldn’t really be saying that.

IRT TOPIC;
Some of these changes would be good, others aren’t so great. For instance; Flamewall (ele skilll) shouldn’t be flamewall anymore because that skill is absolutely useless. My suggestion for something that should replace it would be;

Spontaneous Combustion;
cast time: 1/2 second, Radius: 180, Combo: Blast
You explode in a burst of flames dealing 1k damage to near by foes.

from necro point of view. I like most of the changes , it would be nice to balance thid game but u are focusing only on dmg on necro what about our defnsive ability witch atm is pretty bad , only thing that makes necro still vaible is the dmg witch was nerfed a lost past weeks , so without reworking our defensive skills we wont achive anything. So when u want to balance necro dont focus only on one aspect of this class.

Swagg.9236:

Immobilize gives you a free hit.

So does being rooted, but apparently that doesn’t matter to you.

I was able to reliably get [Pistol Whip] off on players. There’s no after-cast. There’s “after-cast” but no more than what you would get from a regular auto-attack. It’s not nearly as bad as you make it sound. You get a free follow-up hit out of it. Given that that free hit is attached to [Savage Leap] damage, has no activation cue and can hit you from 600 range, it’s rather broken.

Go use IS on golems in the mists, go make a video of your doing so, slow down the video to a tenth of a second per second, and then tell me that there isn’t a long aftercast. Also, comparing the damage to Savage Leap is absolutely pointless- that’s still virtually no damage. Furthermore, even if you hit, on average, half of your hits on PW, you’re still doing less damage than or equal damage to many, many other fairly regular 2 and 3 skills across other professions, like Maul, Final Thrust, Fierce Blow, Arcing Arrow, Mighty Blow, Blunderbuss, and Burning Speed, to name a few.

[Net Shot] actually has rather poor tracking and the projectile tends to go astray if used at a range of 600 or more. It’s best used against stationary targets or targets that are rather close to you.

Even so, you neglect to evaluate this skill in the context of the overall weapon set as well as the value of a 2s immobilize as opposed to a 1s one where you don’t have an aftercast.

This attack is clone dependent. You can CC the clone or destroy it. You can also see the clone perform a very obvious leap animation toward you. It’s balanced in that it has a blatant cue that can be dodged or even outright stopped in its tracks via CC or raw damage.

You’re suggesting that we either waste a CC on the clone (which is much more difficult on professions like thief), or we destroy it, which usually takes at least three hits, by which time a mesmer will usually already have Swapped. You still neglect to evaluate the 2s immobilize, cohesion with the rest of the weaponset, aftercast, and a point I mentioned earlier- the predictability of when a thief is going to use IS.

I’ve already suggested a skill functionality change for this as a nerf.

I’m not going to argue against Pin Down needing a nerf, but just an FYI, if everything is “OP”, none of it is.

The player has a walk up to you to perform this skill. That’s the innate balance. Warriors don’t get direct-to-target teleports.

And the hits don’t need to land for the immobilize to work; it’s essentially unavoidable. Furthermore, Savage Leap gives warrior that range, the immobilize is, again, much longer, and there’s no reason to value having to walk up to your target as being higher than teleporting to him or her (as much as you do, anyways)- they both suffer from requiring a melee range to deal damage/immob, and because of that fact, they suffer from things such as AoE’s or predictability.

This uses a projectile that can be blocked and reflected. It also as a 3/4-second cast-time which can be difficult to get off in a pinch.

It also has a longer immobilize, bleed, a combo finisher, and longer range to pay back for those facts. Its cast time is just as long as IS’s overall cast time.

This skill has a long cast-time and a VERY unique animation cue. Despite it having no projectile, I could almost argue that it were balanced.

If you’re going to argue that a Necro MH Dagger skill in imbalanced… I’m really not sure what to say. It still has a much longer immobilize and doesn’t require melee range (which you seem to neglect, in spite of the benefits of range). I’m interested in knowing what objective sources you are using to propose these changes.

[quote=3421084;Swagg.9236:][quote][quote][quote][quote][quote][quote][quote][quote]

It is not. Projectiles have to travel. [Infiltrator’s Strike] has no identifiable cast-time, no travel time and also inflicts considerable damage. This is why it’s so imbalanced.

IS is also highly predictable, and does in fact have a traveling time (go use the skill on the golems in the Mists, again…). Furthermore, projectiles allow you to stay at range, which is often highly preferable, often have longer immob durations, and have Projectile combo finishers. That “considerable damage” is less than many, many auto attacks in the game, and far less than the majority of 2 and 3 skills.

Again, you have to actually step up to somebody and use that skill. It also has a considerable wind-up and unique activation animation.

It’s certainly less predictable than skills like Shadow Shot, which shoot a very clearly black and large projectile straight at your face before even doing damage. It also does as much damage at <50% health as a level 3 Eviscerate.

Thief with 2,853 power yields a 877 base damage [Crippling Strike] in PvP without any other modifiers. It also inflicts cripple and weakness. Elementalist with 3,310 power yields a 754 base damage [Fireball] in PvP without any other modifiers.

Fireball also has to occur at a range, and isn’t part of a chain, whereas CS is the last strike in a chain of auto attacking strikes. Each of the previous autos deals less damage than Fireball, and they all must be activated at melee range, must hit, and must all hit within a fairly short window of time.

One doesn’t make comparisons without fixing variables. Your situational circumstances mean nothing.

You’re not making any real arguments against my main point: cue-less ranged attacks without projectiles in GW2 are broken and should be readjusted to balance game-play. There are a lot of skills like this. They all should be looked at critically.

One doesn’t make comparisons without considering all of the variables, either. To argue that Crippling Strike- a chain attack that must occur at melee range, must have all of its previous attacks hit, and must have all of its previous auto attacks hit within a fairly short window of time- is better than Fireball, which deals more damage than either of the first two skills in the Sword auto chain at 1200 range, is simply ignorant of the huge amount of complexity that goes into this situation.

Ranged attacks without projectiles tend to require you to be in melee range. Melee range, by definition, requires you to be right up next to your opponent, and that means that your opponent can force you to fight on the battleground of his or her choosing.

You’re being ridiculous if you think that a single full attack negation isn’t powerful. Moreover, with the levels of blind accessible to the Thief, it’s often possible to temporarily gain immunity to attacks in melee under the right conditions since blind now only goes away after a player strikes with an attack that would have actually hit.

Care to elaborate? This is the part I’m really interested in here.

As for the thief’s “level of blinds”, they only come from three places, mainly: from the SA VI trait, from Shadow Shot, and from Black Powder. The VI trait has a small radius and can only be activated upon entering stealth- the usual counter is just to auto once and, since your opponent is so close by, you’ll usually get rid of the blind instantly. Black Powder requires a lot of initiative as well, and requires you to stand in place. Shadow Shot requires a decent amount of initiative but doesn’t really help you get much closer to a BS combo.

Alright, let me back away from the damage then. While damage is an important factor in a skill, its utility and counter-playability is also crucial. [Shadow Shot] has effectively no counter-play to it. You can block the follow-up stab for high damage, but is that really a win since the Thief still gets free movement to you and you are now blind? The Thief still comes on top in this situation. It’s a free one-up on a target player and there’s no proper counter to it. It needs a nerf. Breaking that into a two-part skill chain will fix it.

Spending four initiative for a blind and a teleport, by themselves, is rarely a winning situation for a D/P thief, unless your opponent was already low on health and you’re simply planning on HS’ing him or her to death.

The counterplay is very simple- just evade the shot. It’s extremely obvious, particularly with its coloring.

Free movement to a player isn’t necessarily a winning situation for a thief either, especially when the thief moves into an Eviscerate, CC, 100 Blades, or some kind of burst.

Putting the skill into a two-part chain will not fix it. It’ll still allow you to get the blind, and you’ll be able to get the damage as soon as your opponent stops blocking (in a blocking situation). If anything, it’ll make the skill “more” OP.

The blind and teleport is the most powerful part of this skill. The fact that the thief gets free movement to a target on top of blinding that target is why this skill is imbalanced. The projectile can’t be blocked, it can’t be reflected, and it can’t even be destroyed.

Once again, you’re missing the point of these skill changes. These thief skill changes related to [Infiltrator’s Strike] and [Shadow Shot] aren’t necessarily about raw damage, but rather addressing the issue of free, uncounterable movement to a target (that is often followed up by free hits on said target either via immobilize or blind).

There was a reason that shadowsteps in GW1 were given a 3/4-second after-cast. Also, those shadowsteps never had any immediate damage tied to them. Shadowstep mechanics are incredibly strong—borderline broken—and adding anything on top of that simple free direct-to-target movement is asking for balance troubles.

I think I’ve already addressed in this post and previous posts most of the issues with these statements.

Forsaker.9213:

from necro point of view. I like most of the changes , it would be nice to balance thid game but u are focusing only on dmg on necro what about our defnsive ability witch atm is pretty bad , only thing that makes necro still vaible is the dmg witch was nerfed a lost past weeks , so without reworking our defensive skills we wont achive anything. So when u want to balance necro dont focus only on one aspect of this class.

I’m actually hoping to address some of that with the long-term ideas. The only issue with those is that they’re actual skill additions instead of skill reworkings. I really do feel that Necromancer is poorly designed in that it’s one of the most spam-centric classes in this game. It has very poor support capabilities. It’s typical function is just pressing all of the buttons to vomit out as many conditions as possible on a target, and I don’t believe that that’s even in line with the “attrition model” that ANet actually had intended for it.

Necromancer needs more long cast-times and support abilities. This could better define its battle position. By battle position, I often look to DPS Staff Elementalist. A DPS Staff Elementalist knows that he/she is probably toast if he/she attempts to go head-long into a fray on a point and only does so as a desperation move when other options aren’t working. A DPS Staff Elementalist is cemented off point and in the backline of his/her allies. You know where to find this player. Necromancers don’t have this. They just sort of scoot about while pressing buttons, never really suffering from range swapping. By better defining the location/distance from which most of a Necromancer’s powerful skills are effective, this class can come back into its own as a well defined class with a role in any given encounter.

Arganthium.5638:

Care to elaborate? This is the part I’m really interested in here.

You’ve never negated an [Eviscerate] or something of its level before with a quick blind? It’s not difficult and it ruins a lot of burst for an enemy. Furthermore, AoE-dependent players are often wrecked by blind because AoEs tick so slowly.

Arganthium.5638:

Spending four initiative for a blind and a teleport, by themselves, is rarely a winning situation for a D/P thief, unless your opponent was already low on health and you’re simply planning on HS’ing him or her to death.

Thieves do the most damage in melee range. Getting into melee range while also blinding a target is nothing but good for a thief.

Arganthium.5638:

The counterplay is very simple- just evade the shot. It’s extremely obvious, particularly with its coloring.

It has no cool-down. Fighting [Shadow Shot] with dodges is unwise since the Thief could still have [Steal] or maybe even [Infiltrator’s Signet] since that signet pretty meta.

Arganthium.5638:

Free movement to a player isn’t necessarily a winning situation for a thief either, especially when the thief moves into an Eviscerate, CC, 100 Blades, or some kind of burst.

Why are you moving into those things?

Arganthium.5638:

Putting the skill into a two-part chain will not fix it. It’ll still allow you to get the blind, and you’ll be able to get the damage as soon as your opponent stops blocking (in a blocking situation). If anything, it’ll make the skill “more” OP.

By moving it into a two-part skill chain, it will be a projectile that players can block, destroy and/or reflect. It gives the instant movement and blind counter-playability. That’s the goal with the change.

Arganthium.5638:

I think I’ve already addressed in this post and previous posts most of the issues with these statements.

I have no reason to not say that my points remain valid.

Swagg.9236:

Forsaker.9213:

from necro point of view. I like most of the changes , it would be nice to balance thid game but u are focusing only on dmg on necro what about our defnsive ability witch atm is pretty bad , only thing that makes necro still vaible is the dmg witch was nerfed a lost past weeks , so without reworking our defensive skills we wont achive anything. So when u want to balance necro dont focus only on one aspect of this class.

I’m actually hoping to address some of that with the long-term ideas. The only issue with those is that they’re actual skill additions instead of skill reworkings. I really do feel that Necromancer is poorly designed in that it’s one of the most spam-centric classes in this game. It has very poor support capabilities. It’s typical function is just pressing all of the buttons to vomit out as many conditions as possible on a target, and I don’t believe that that’s even in line with the “attrition model” that ANet actually had intended for it.

Necromancer needs more long cast-times and support abilities. This could better define its battle position. By battle position, I often look to DPS Staff Elementalist. A DPS Staff Elementalist knows that he/she is probably toast if he/she attempts to go head-long into a fray on a point and only does so as a desperation move when other options aren’t working. A DPS Staff Elementalist is cemented off point and in the backline of his/her allies. You know where to find this player. Necromancers don’t have this. They just sort of scoot about while pressing buttons, never really suffering from range swapping. By better defining the location/distance from which most of a Necromancer’s powerful skills are effective, this class can come back into its own as a well defined class with a role in any given encounter.

Thats why your sugestions will never work.1st necro is the easiest profesion to focus and kill , 2nd necro is the profession with longest cast times in game , 3rd necro is the only class without defensive abilitys.DS? Plague? nope it wont never help u when u are focused. To balance necro dmg/condi spam etc u need to start from reworking defensive aspect of thiss class.

Man, I feel bad for the OP…so much effort put into this, and all for naught.
(Anet don’t read walls of text)

Swagg.9236:

Geff.1930:

Have you played for any professional teams in any other games besides GW2?

You’re complaining to a McDonald’s frycook that he’s not making your burger like the guy at Burger King makes it. We’re talking about GW2 here. Other games (aside from maybe GW1) have little relevance.

If someone makes a suggestion or a critique it is important for that person to have some credibility. Continuing with your terrible analogy, which kind complaint is more credible? A complaint from a person who has never eaten a burger outside of McDonalds or a complaint from burger connoisseur who has traveled across the planet eating a variety of burgers and has gained an expertise on what a good burger should taste like?

I’m not saying GW2 should copy some other game. I’m just saying that if a person has played a balanced e-sport game on a competitive level he naturally picks up an understanding on what “balanced” is supposed to be and what qualities cause or inhibit balance.

If your resume consists of only GW2 or other mmorpgs you do not have a frame of reference in regards to balance because you have never played a game that is balanced enough to foster a competitive e-sport audience.

From the Engineer point of view the changes would remove grenades from our game. Biggest nerf in the history of engineers

so much wrong, in so many ways…i don’t even know where to start….

from the pov of the class i play the most: ini + CD is sooo bad, go to other class forums and ask them if they would like to have mana bars/costs + CDs on spells… trust me, they will send you to hell

but then again we are probably biting a cake here, looking at OP name heh

Swagg.9236:

Arganthium.5638:

The counterplay is very simple- just evade the shot. It’s extremely obvious, particularly with its coloring.

It has no cool-down. Fighting [Shadow Shot] with dodges is unwise since the Thief could still have [Steal] or maybe even [Infiltrator’s Signet] since that signet pretty meta.

So countering with dodges is unwise, but using a block is not? I don’t get this.
According to your logic, blocking it would also be unwise since the thief could still use steal/infiltrators signet.

Btw: teef skills have no cooldown! xD