Guild Wars 2

Who in the team thought it be fun to add another dungeon so hard its impossible to solo or near impossible to even duo, so that it force peoples to party up to max party size … again ?

Really ? I mean really ? after all those complains for past months about the last dungeon Arah, forcing a full size party to finish storyline, they are still doing it ?

Here i thought they finally changed, those in charge of Super Aventure Box, done it perfectly, give their player a chance to do it alone or with a small party. Very good job SAB Team, you guys sure know how to do stuff.

Oh well in my book Anet lost their number one team for making online game. I thought there was still some hope left, but there is none. Will sure not be looking forward to any of their future game from now on.

Might I suggest you actually try to do it with a pug group? The instance itself is very pug-friendly and extremely well done.

SAB was doable solo because it’s not really a dungeon.

Molten Facility would lose its grandness if I could just walk in and faceroll everything. I’m not exactly Solid Snake in this strange thing called a MMO.

Guild Wars 2 has done many things to make it very much ‘’Player Friendly Environement’’ But still stayed with the old system for dungeon… which is party based.

There is a system in place, that can a scale up and down system for their events mob/boss, so why is there none for their dungeon ?

Tawa.3180:

SAB was doable solo because it’s not really a dungeon.

Molten Facility would lose its grandness if I could just walk in and faceroll everything. I’m not exactly Solid Snake in this strange thing called a MMO.

Did you try SOB ? You know then it was written as joke i hope ‘’ Recommended 5 Players’’

You been missing the whole point, good for you if you like a big challenge or to party with a big group. Never thinking about those who doesnt. Selfish much ?

And stop trying to kiss Anet kitten lol like many other players that does

Please explain how I’m being selfish by helping friends and complete strangers in dungeons, that’s just so confusing.

Why should MMOs play like an offline single player game? GW2 is a very social game.

I find it strange people want to do it alone, I love going into dungeons with a full pug party, really enhances experience for me, changing skills/weapons for teamplay. The living story makes needing a party viable (cant remember the dialogue exactly), and it would be weird to have 1 hero take on an alliance of charr and dredge with fused weapons etc. Still, I guess everyone is different, would be cool to have a scaling dungeon depending on party size or something; the amount of times I have to put off a story mode dungeon because there is no one on at night is annoying! People who just prefer to play solo would benefit from it too, and would allow them to experience everything others get.

Yeah I fail to see how people who play a MMO expect single player content to be a main stage of content…

Hugo the Great.1426:

Yeah I fail to see how people who play a MMO expect single player content to be a main stage of content…

Well i fail to see how peoples who play MMO to expect it to be Always and party Only

To all future ’’replies’’ i always duo stuff with my gf, so no need to say why i want to solo lol

We gonna try again next weekend when some friend will be online. Almost did it, just needed a bit more firepower.

GW2 has done a great job so far to make everyone happy, but failed in one aspect of the game sadly. Which is Story Mode for Dungeon.

I dont mind to party, but all that frustation came from the fact that our personal story was easy solo or duo till the last part of it, where we had to party for it. While the game never make us play with other players, to make friends and the like.

The flaws in at GW2 roots, even while in a party, killing something doesnt count for everyone, so yeah everyone is ’’solo’’ killing stuff in some way, since if what your party member is killing wont count for you unless you are able to hit in time too.

Ramurak.8501:

Hugo the Great.1426:

Yeah I fail to see how people who play a MMO expect single player content to be a main stage of content…

Well i fail to see how peoples who play MMO to expect it to be Always and party Only

99% of the story is solo, 1% is not.
A HUGE amount of world content is soloable.
ALL hearts are solo (I think)

And this is an MMO. And yet somehow people find the silliest things to complain about.

Wow, I can’t imagine. The audacity of ArenaNet to make a multiplayer living story event in a MMO. How dare they! Do they know what they’re doing?

My boyfriend and I like to duo as much content as possible, so I can see where you’re coming from OP. But, if you are needing a hand completing the dungeon, hit us up in game, we can lend a hand!

MMOs are for that.To meet new people and to group up

moiraine.2753:

MMOs are for that.To meet new people and to group up

That’s really narrow. MMO’s should be for a wide range of people, not your own personal ideal.

I find it uncomfortable chatting with people I don’t know. Yet I enjoy open world (even with those pesky other players around!), I enjoy WvW. I enjoy co-op, with an actual person in the same room as me. But I don’t pug. I would have done this duo’ed, I might have hot-joined a random group – but LFG’ing for access to content? Ugh.. no thanks. Sorry if I’m not sociable enough to play an MMO.

This shouldn’t even be an issue, though. There’s no reason for ANet to be forcing dungeons into story content. They could have used the plot to introduce the dungeon, without making it a mandatory step.

It’s like ANet has two playbooks – one for creating accessible, inviting content for a more casual audience, and the other for more hardcore team players. I can respect that – GW2 needs to appeal to different types of players, but why bind the two together if you don’t have to?

I’ll save some of you the time: “Duh, it’s an MMO stupid!”

Well I for one love the dungeons, if you don;t like them then don’t do them.

It is an MMO, designed for multiplayer experiences.

If you feel uncomfortable playing with other people why are you not playing a a multiplayer coop game?

I loved this dungeon! The mobs were great, the final boss was awesome (I love a good multi-stage boss fight) and after the final boss, the rush to get out was pretty sweet… This is how most of the dungeons should be in my opinion, something I can do that doesn’t kill me but is engaging and fun.

There’s a few things that could still make it better of course, there always is as nothing is perfect and each person wants something slightly different. If there was one thing that I could add to this dungeon, or all dungeons, it would be the ability to scale as someone else suggested… but keep in mind scaling can go both ways. I would love to do this with a small group of friends (3 people.. which I think this is doable with 3, I did it with a group of 4) AND I would love to do this with everyone in my guild that’s interested… a lot of times we’ll get runs going and a few people are always left out and end up doing something else because they don’t want to lead a group.. I really wish I could just bring 16 people in a dungeon and have it scale up for us. That’d be awesome ^.^

I’m going to go with the idea that anet wants to put out content for everyone. Some people like the full party dungeons, this is for them.

However, I can see your side and it would be awesome if the dungeons scaled to match your group. That would be ideal.

I’m on the line of thinking, either they should scale the dungeon instances based on the number of people that go in OR just make the dungeon a world instance and let EVERYONE in because they want us to play together right? Not together, separately.

It is an mmo after all. :P

In the SAB, the frog boss’s health scaled perfectly with the number of players. He can be soloed within 3 stuns, but a single missed hit makes it 4. With 5 players, ALL 5 have to perform perfectly to kill him in 3 stuns – which I’ve never actually seen happen.

This caused everyone to start running solo after the first few days. I had a ton of fun exploring with the group, but once having multiple people became inconvenient (and lets not even get started on the TIME it takes to solo vs a group), everyone ran it alone.

Now, the frog boss was a pretty standard “retro” fight, with a boss that used a very small number of very predictable moves. In a more normal dungeon, scaling allows for additional fight mechanics and enemy abilities. If scaling means that single players avoid these moves, which would have undoubtedly been more difficult, we are going to end up with another SAB – with a zillion players running solo for the ‘candy’ at the end.

I don’t mind scaling, but I’d prefer if they make some incentive to at least bring some friends.

Well finally got it done this afternoon, added a few more peoples to our party and we finished it. It went very smootly, no party whip. Took about an hour or so, far from the +3 hours of trying to duo.

Was rather fun, much more easier than when we tried to duo it lol

Still wish there was a way to do it with less peoples, as i noticed, the further we are going toward May 12, less peoples will be doing it. So it will prossibly be more difficult for peoples to do it later on…

Btw it was extremely good for the monthly Veteran kill lol

Don’t listen to the hardcore kiddies, unless you are ALL max level….this is NOT easy….not even close to easy. All you heroes are declaring it easy to stroke your egos.

In fact it is way too hard for 50 somethings considering that the all the rest of this story was VERY solo and low level (late buyers) so we had the impression that the story was content that allowed for folks who joined the game late and were still leveling and just starting to get decent equipement (not alts).

Hell one or two blows and you’re down. Being brought to max level doesn’t get you the equipement and attributes you need to do this. Yes, I got through it, but spent most of the time on my back dead as the rest of the group were max levels that did the work..barely.

Hugo the Great.1426:

Yeah I fail to see how people who play a MMO expect single player content to be a main stage of content…

You mean the way nearly the entire rest of the main game (except for the very final part of the Personal Story, which is the same Design Failure problem as the LS ending) can be done by a group of 1 or more?

moiraine.2753:

MMOs are for that.To meet new people and to group up

And to discover that you can’t stand some of these new people, and end up forced to group up with them anyway because it’s the only way you’re going to be allow to complete the story, or worse, the time-limited story.
If there was an option or an alternative path to being rubber-hosed into grouping (keeping in mind that that if you don’t do that dungeon, you get no final reward for all your previous effort), that’d certainly be an improvement.

Jam.4521:

Well I for one love the dungeons, if you don;t like them then don’t do them.

It is an MMO, designed for multiplayer experiences.

If you feel uncomfortable playing with other people why are you not playing a a multiplayer coop game?

If I don’t do them, I get no reward or ending to the Personal or Living Stories.

And I do play a multiplayer coop game—it’s called Guild Wars 2. The great thing is that for 99% of the game, that’s entirely by my choice whether I drop in and help, do it on my own, or keep on going past. Except for these two and only two points in the game where I’m not allowed to progress further whatsoever without being forced into a formal grouping, despite none of the rest of the game requiring (though allowing it as an option).

I continue to be baffled by people who log into an MMO of any kind and get upset that there are things that require group content.

I dont think the issue with party size and dungeons has anything to do with anet “forcing multiplayer blah blah blah in an MMO”, I think it has to do with requiring a specific number of players to party up.

Why can’t dungeons scale for one – five (or however many) players? I can’t even tell you how often we’ve struggled with trying to find an extra person or two to round out a party or had to exclude a person or two because the dungeon had a five person limit. If the game is going to be considered a social game, then it seems ideal to me to allow for scaling like this. Of course we don’t live in an ideal world nor is it necessary fair to strive for the ideal in a system you have little or no ability to govern. Still, I have hope for the future that this will evolve.

synk.6907:

I continue to be baffled by people who log into an MMO of any kind and get upset that there are things that require group content.

do u kno what MMO stands for massive multiplayer online were does that state u must party or get out ? GW2 removed mob tagging node stealing so you could team up without the need to party >2012 gaming ftw then it forces you into a party – 2004 gaming ftw :P it needs to make up its mind is it a casual game were u run about to meet friends or a dungeon crawler as the 2nd one other games do it better…. For example WoW I can go mess about do quests farm do old raids w/e I want then pop dungeon finder found a match and I’m in a dungeon same for Rift and SWTOR from what I remember. in GW2 u need to stop what your doing go to the map and beg ppl to join.

Why couldn’t the new dungeon be made around a solo gamer like 99% of the story I managed to solo up to the fire boss but its impossible to kill to much dmg

ah… i hate PUGs.. sometimes you get that guy who do anything he wants and doesn’t listen anyone and make the dungeon experience a nightmare to everybody…

If dungeons get scaled, I want the rewards to be scaled too. A warrior or mesmer going through the new dungeon or Fractals doesn’t deserve the full amount of tokens and money that a full party gets. Group effort for a group reward.

Tawa.3180:

If dungeons get scaled, I want the rewards to be scaled too. A warrior or mesmer going through the new dungeon or Fractals doesn’t deserve the full amount of tokens and money that a full party gets. Group effort for a group reward.

You do know if dungeons scaled it would take the same effort solo as a group of 5 right ?

raiden.9024:

synk.6907:

I continue to be baffled by people who log into an MMO of any kind and get upset that there are things that require group content.

do u kno what MMO stands for massive multiplayer online were does that state u must party or get out ? GW2 removed mob tagging node stealing so you could team up without the need to party >2012 gaming ftw then it forces you into a party – 2004 gaming ftw :P it needs to make up its mind is it a casual game were u run about to meet friends or a dungeon crawler as the 2nd one other games do it better…. For example WoW I can go mess about do quests farm do old raids w/e I want then pop dungeon finder found a match and I’m in a dungeon same for Rift and SWTOR from what I remember. in GW2 u need to stop what your doing go to the map and beg ppl to join.

Why couldn’t the new dungeon be made around a solo gamer like 99% of the story I managed to solo up to the fire boss but its impossible to kill to much dmg

The massively part? The Multi-player part? the online part?

All 3 of those letters imply that you will be expected to interact with other players.

If you are having trouble getting a group try www.gw2lfg.com. i’m not sure if they’ve added the new dungeon yet or not, but unlike WoW or TOR or Rift it only takes 10-30 seconds to get a group using that tool instead of 10-30 minutes.

so running the open world with others don’t count for you ? 10-30 mins ? don’t u play a tank or healer instant queue :P. they made open world not require party play so why force it in dungeons. again the MMO seems to translate to party only content to you, while going dailies how many ppl do you interact with that’s what the MMO is not omg I need 4 other ppl now to finish what I started…. its a dated concept.

lordkrall.7241:

Might I suggest you actually try to do it with a pug group? The instance itself is very pug-friendly and extremely well done.

Yes, I love nothing more than failing a dungeon over and over until my evening is completely wasted away.

Christ, I just wish I could bring heros like in olde tymes and be done with it.

raiden.9024:

so running the open world with others don’t count for you ? 10-30 mins ? don’t u play a tank or healer instant queue :P. they made open world not require party play so why force it in dungeons. again the MMO seems to translate to party only content to you, while going dailies how many ppl do you interact with that’s what the MMO is not omg I need 4 other ppl now to finish what I started…. its a dated concept.

Yeah this… I hear all about how there’s no partying required and all this… but then oops, yeah it actually is required here, here and here.

I don’t care what anyone says. I shouldn’t have to rely on anyone to progress my story or get fancy armor.

Tawa.3180:

Please explain how I’m being selfish by helping friends and complete strangers in dungeons, that’s just so confusing.

Why should MMOs play like an offline single player game? GW2 is a very social game.

Not everyone feels like being social. I shouldn’t HAVE to be social just because a lot of people like it.

They have all kinds of scaling systems in place, and there’s NO REASON they can’t apply a scaling system to a dungeon based on how many are in the party. They do it with world events, they COULD do it with dungeons, but choose not to.

ophidic.1279:

Yes, I love nothing more than failing a dungeon over and over until my evening is completely wasted away.

Christ, I just wish I could bring heros like in olde tymes and be done with it.

As I said: Try it before you complain about it.
It is fully possible to do with a pug and without even talking to each other.

And had you actually done the dungeon you would have known that heroes would simply die again and again and again and again and again in this dungeon, since it requires things that the AI can’t really handle.

moiraine.2753:

MMOs are for that.To meet new people and to group up

No, that’s what quest party chat is for.

lordkrall.7241:

ophidic.1279:

Yes, I love nothing more than failing a dungeon over and over until my evening is completely wasted away.

Christ, I just wish I could bring heros like in olde tymes and be done with it.

As I said: Try it before you complain about it.
It is fully possible to do with a pug and without even talking to each other.

And had you actually done the dungeon you would have known that heroes would simply die again and again and again and again and again in this dungeon, since it requires things that the AI can’t really handle.

Did you ever flag your heros and remaining henchmen strategically? They get WAY better than normal dummy AI.

ophidic.1279:

Did you ever flag your heros and remaining henchmen strategically? They get WAY better than normal dummy AI.

Yep.
As I said: Do the dungeon before talking about it.

lordkrall.7241:

ophidic.1279:

Did you ever flag your heros and remaining henchmen strategically? They get WAY better than normal dummy AI.

Yep.
As I said: Do the dungeon before talking about it.

Do the dungeon and complete it? Or wipe again?

While MMO’s are multiplayer games, single player games don’t really compare.

With TES, they do extremely well in creating a world where you have freedom of choice and an impact on the world based on your actions. Some impacts are small while others are big. They also do a much better job at creating a world that actually feels alive. NPCs that pick up new rumors, have daily lives, etc. They don’t just stand in the same spot 24/7. They eat/drink, sleep, open their shops in the morning and close them for the night. Guards actually change shifts. It can be given more depth, but it’s more than what GW has.

However, the worlds are also smaller and while the single player game has better depth, the mmo has more. More quests, more places to explore. It’s shallower but there is much more of it.

Also, for rpg games in general, there is a limited amount of single player games that are of actual worth. Most are the gaming industries equivalent of ‘B’ movies.

So I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to want to play a MMO solo.

My own issue isn’t with the temp content. It’s with the personal story. If it’s my “personal story” why is it I have to party with other people to complete one of, if not the, last mission? Since it is in a dungeon. To me that defeats the purpose of it being personal. The parts outside the cinematography are as important to the story as the part in them. If in them it is just me and the npc’s then outside it should be the same.

ophidic.1279:

Do the dungeon and complete it? Or wipe again?

Well since you seems to believe that heroes would be able to help you complete it I suggest actually doing it and in that understanding why they wouldn’t.

lordkrall.7241:

ophidic.1279:

Do the dungeon and complete it? Or wipe again?

Well since you seems to believe that heroes would be able to help you complete it I suggest actually doing it and in that understanding why they wouldn’t.

They can’t be any worse than some people i’ve seen. At least heros don’t ragequit, and they don’t pull mobs unless you flag them sloppily or leave them on offensive.

ophidic.1279:

They can’t be any worse than some people i’ve seen. At least heros don’t ragequit, and they don’t pull mobs unless you flag them sloppily or leave them on offensive.

It is not a matter of being bad, it is a matter of some stuff that is most likely not possible for an AI without way too much coding.

tbh i hate doing dungeons with pugs,but all the work i done on the living story i had no choice but to team up.(thanks to wow days.thats why i hate teaming up with pugs)
I did enjoy the dungeon lucky for me i had a good pug team for a change.

I would like to have done it with hero’s,but tbh there is no way the heroes would survive the way this dungeon works.

raiden.9024:

synk.6907:

I continue to be baffled by people who log into an MMO of any kind and get upset that there are things that require group content.

do u kno what MMO stands for massive multiplayer online were does that state u must party or get out ? GW2 removed mob tagging node stealing so you could team up without the need to party >2012 gaming ftw then it forces you into a party - 2004 gaming ftw :P it needs to make up its mind is it a casual game were u run about to meet friends or a dungeon crawler as the 2nd one other games do it better.... For example WoW I can go mess about do quests farm do old raids w/e I want then pop dungeon finder found a match and I’m in a dungeon same for Rift and SWTOR from what I remember. in GW2 u need to stop what your doing go to the map and beg ppl to join.

Why couldn’t the new dungeon be made around a solo gamer like 99% of the story I managed to solo up to the fire boss but its impossible to kill to much dmg

So aside from the complaint that we don’t have an in-game LFG tool for the dungeons, your own post shows how MMORPGs have group-based content. GW2 is no different. Be it a flashpoint or dungeon or raid or whatever, some content is group content.

Also, I did not say that anyone "must party or get out". There is group content, and then there is solo content. Yes, you can level and explore by yourself, but there are also group events and bosses in the open world. Thankfully we do not have to be partied in GW2 to get a chance to loot these bosses like we would in most other MMOs, but we still need other players all the same.

Special events with some group content and some solable content isn’t different. Many holiday events in WoW, for example, have a dungeon that requires other people in addition to the various things you can do solo, and like this Living Story you cannot always get all of the achievements or whatever title without doing it.

Besides, go stand by the entrance to the facility and type "LFG" in /s or map chat. If you don’t get a group within a couple of minutes, I’d be surprised. Maybe try guesting on another server. Or joining a guild.

Perhaps it was a bad choice for the two instances with Rox and Braham to be solo instances, as that might make it seem like the dungeon should be as well.

synk.6907:

Perhaps it was a bad choice for the two instances with Rox and Braham to be solo instances, as that might make it seem like the dungeon should be as well.

Pretty much this. At least warn me that there’ll be a dungeon at the end so I don’t bother. My friends and I were hoping for another dragon or a higher level meta event of some kind, to be honest, and we’re all kinda disappointed at a dungeon.

This event was the first time I tried a dungeon. Usually I solo or play with hubby. I went through twice with PUGs. First time we were just unable to defeat the bosses because one in the party had to leave and two kept dying so that left two of us and we just wore out. Everyone tried hard to do their part as we went through. I was impressed at how everyone worked together so that we quickly plowed through to the bosses. The second run the next day (different PUG) it took us a bit to figure strategy at the start but once we got past the flame embers we started really coordinating very well. The bosses were difficult (at least for me) but now I see the strategies you need to put in play to survive better (jump, dodge and run are your best friends here). I felt it was worth the challenge of doing this and was pleasantly surprised by the helpful folk in both groups. True, you never know what you are going to end up with but it did pay off very nicely and I had a great time with both groups. Communication was the key here – have someone designated to do the targeting as you go and lay out the strategy before you start so folk, especially those new to dungeons, know what is expected of them. There were enough pause points going through to stop and coordinate before making the next charge.

First run-

“Oh this is fun, I usually hate dungeons. ::downed::downed::downed:: Ok… lets not run into the embers like goofballs.. Yay we beat them! ::Runs ahead not paying attention:: ((bam)), ::runs into wall of water/air(?) and falls on face:: Ok.. Now I’m just having too much fun :P”

why don’t they just delete threads like these?

@OP: you might wanna check out single player games my friend