Guild Wars 2

I’ve been looking over the theories of the ending cut-scene when I had a sudden spark of realization. The first part of the cutscene(the part with the pale tree) was for this living story, while the other part was hinting at a later threat(season 3 probably)

I’ll try to bold the important parts

The reasoning because of this is the theory the orbs surrounding the center is the Elder Dragons(6 orbs 6 dragons). In the video we see each orb activate one after another.

Red>blue>White>Green>Purple>Light green

Biased on profiles of the dragons we can tell immediately red is Primordus, and purple is Kralkotorrik. Green and light green is Zhaitan or Mordremoth. White and Blue is Jormag or Bubbles. With these established one can theorize that the order they start up in is the order they awake.

Primordus>Jormag>Deep Sea Dragon(bubbles)>Zhaitan>Kralkotorrik>Mordremoth

The only x factor is bubbles. Nothing is known about him. Now here’s first step in my theory. Each orb represents the magic each dragon has If this is true the white orb would belong to Jormag. Leaving the blue one to bubbles or the deep sea dragon This leaves Green to Zhaitan and Light Green to Mordremoth

With this established we can take on the biggest part of my theory.

We saw the green orb being smashed into the center It would have been when Zhaitan was defeated.

It’s been repeated time and time again.
“Dragons have long been thought to be as much a part of Tyria as the sun, moon, land, and seas. " ~The Nature of Dragons" by Ogden Stonehealer

This would have been the first time an elder dragon was killed

My theory is this.
The dragons where destructive forces of nature that balanced out each other. However with zhaitan dead, the magic of zhaitan is now bleeding out into the mists. and if not stopped it will destabilize all of existence.

The major sign of this is Tequatl gaining strength. Arena Net has said themselves has a lore reason for it. I believe as a champion of Zhaitan he has had “first dibs” on the magic that came out when Zhaitan died.

Compare the orb colors to the six Zones in the Infinite Coil Reactor…

Bonus points for Zone Blue still being under construction. If that ever changes…

I still can’t break the feeling that the “Eternal Alchemy” is connected to the Realm of Torment.

Civilis.2547:

Compare the orb colors to the six Zones in the Infinite Coil Reactor…

Bonus points for Zone Blue still being under construction. If that ever changes…

There’s a problem with that since there is no “black orb”

I did my guessing biased on the color of the magic the elder dragons or their minions emitted.

destroyers glow red
Icebrood have white frost
Zhaitan magic is dark green.
bubbles is unknown.
Branded bleed purple energy.
Mordremoth is unknown. (since we haven’t seen any “magic” used by his minions yet)

Sors Immani.8429:

I still can’t break the feeling that the “Eternal Alchemy” is connected to the Realm of Torment.

I thought the same thing when i saw the drawing in S2E1. It’s not the same design though. I suspect that the Realm of torment map we saw in GW1 was a map of how it looks From a whole. The one we saw in Gw2 was tyria’s map on the same scale.

zerorogue.9410:

There’s a problem with that since there is no “black orb”

I did my guessing biased on the color of the magic the elder dragons or their minions emitted.

destroyers glow red
Icebrood have white frost
Zhaitan magic is dark green.
bubbles is unknown.
Branded bleed purple energy.
Mordremoth is unknown. (since we haven’t seen any “magic” used by his minions yet)

Actual “black” black is hard to do properly, so assume the “dark green” is supposed to represent black. Zone Black is undead themed, and Zone Green is definitely plant themed, all in an Inquest base that investigates exploiting the powers of the Elder Dragons.

Given that the Inquest beat us into Dry Top, how much do they know?

Jew Mochalke will read it backwards. Point invalid.

Hmm. I’m heartened by your reading of that green orb’s smashing being Zhaitan’s death. I had a much more pessimistic interpretation, that it was Mordremoth attacking the Pale Tree and sending his destruction out through everything.

I hope you’re right and I’m wrong.

Sors Immani.8429:

I still can’t break the feeling that the “Eternal Alchemy” is connected to the Realm of Torment.

I belive Gods of Tyria designed Realm of Torment after Eternal Alchemy structure

zerorogue.9410:

The dragons were destructive forces of nature that balanced out each other. However with zhaitan dead, the magic of zhaitan is now bleeding out into the mists. and if not stopped it will destabilize all of existence.

So Trahearne will pull a Kormir and take over Zhaitan’s spot, and we get to kill him.

Donari.5237:

Hmm. I’m heartened by your reading of that green orb’s smashing being Zhaitan’s death. I had a much more pessimistic interpretation, that it was Mordremoth attacking the Pale Tree and sending his destruction out through everything.

I hope you’re right and I’m wrong.

I’ve been trying to find a copy of the cutscene online to take a closer look at the orbs.

My original take was the same as yours; Mordremoth’s after the Tree. We go to Concordia. Concordia get attacked. We go to Selma. Selma gets attacked. Now we’re told to go talk to the Pale Tree…

Although killing one of the primordial forces of nature also strikes me as potentially really, really bad. I never really considered the effects of Zhaitan actually dying until now.

Other question, one of the artifacts at Fort Concordia was noted to be a heirloom locket which displays an image of the heir to the throne of Kryta, whoever it is. It’s an oddly specific mention when compared to the generic “Krait Obelisk Shards” at Kessex hills. Anyone know who the current heir is?

There’s another interesting “Six” parallel that’s been running.
We have:
Red (fire) – Primordus
Black (death) – Zhaitan
Green (earth/plants) – Mordremoth
Purple (corruption/crystal) – Kralkatorrik
White (Ice) – Jormag
Blue (Water?) – “Bubbles”

We also have
Red (Fire/war) – Balthazar
Black (Death) – Grenth
Green (Nature) – Melandru
Purple (Chaos/Beauty) – Lyssa
White (Air/Healing) – Dwayna
???? – Abbadon or Kormir

Civilis.2547:

There’s another interesting “Six” parallel that’s been running.
We have:
Red (fire) – Primordus
Black (death) – Zhaitan
Green (earth/plants) – Mordremoth
Purple (corruption/crystal) – Kralkatorrik
White (Ice) – Jormag
Blue (Water?) – “Bubbles”

We also have
Red (Fire/war) – Balthazar
Black (Death) – Grenth
Green (Nature) – Melandru
Purple (Chaos/Beauty) – Lyssa
White (Air/Healing) – Dwayna
???? – Abbadon or Kormir

And the original Bloodstone, was supposedly broken into 5 pieces and scattered through the world. How easy would it be to have forgotten another “God of Secrets” shard existed?

My personal wild theory is that Tyrians had created the Bloodstone in order to defeat the Elder Dragons long before. The Bloodstones are similar in that they absorb huge quantities of magical energy. The Bloodstone sucked the Dragons dry and they all went into a hibernation state while they waited for food to become plentiful again.

This stones power could be redirected to other purposes, which gave it’s keepers enormous power. They forget the original purpose and begin to war on each other, and then split the stone into pieces. These keepers become the first gods of Tyria, through power stolen from the dragons. The “mantle of the gods” such as transferred between Grenth/Dhuum or Abbadon/Kormir is essentially primary control over the stones power.

As the gods use the power, it remained ambient in the world. Eventually it reached a critical mass where magic returned to the people of Tyria. The gods create helper races such as the Mursaat to attempt to replenish the stones.

Eventually, heroes appear in Tyria that start directly meddling with the Bloodstones power, which hastens the original binding spell on the Dragons to eventually end. The gods vanish from the world, their power expended, and then the Dragons awake from hibernation as they reabsorb the magical energy.

How about this:

The Pale Tree is the physical manifestation of and/or our only direct connection to the Dream of Dreams, which seems identical theologically to the Eternal Alchemy, which the dragons are connected to. I’d wager they feed in to it as much as they take from it (in the form of devouring magic).

The dragons, like was brought up by the OP, kept one another in check while they were alive — they are, after all, related but opposed pairs:

Primordus (fire, chaos) | Kralkatorrik (basalt [volcanic stone], structure)
Bubbles (water, fluidity) | Jormag (ice, stasis)
Zhaitan (death, destruction) | Mordremoth (life, creation)

Stone (volcanic stone in particular) contains fire and is in turn consumed by it.
Ice is water locked in sold form until it melts.
All that lives dies, so that new life can be born.

With Zhaitan’s defeat (or death), Mordremoth has been given an opportunity to seize more than his fair share of the power and that is what we’re seeing in the vision. Zhaitan falls and Mordremoth rushes in to subsume the entire Dream. (Which, by the way, no one has connected something called the Dream of Dreams to primordial slumbering dragons?)

This also touches on the Sylvari being children of the Dream and its defenders against the dragons, and why various Sylvari have been at the center of this struggle for and against them. Still, the part of my brain that loves intrigue and conspiracies wonders if Mordremoth didn’t create the seeds from which the Pale Tree was born in order to gain a physical tool to leverage the dragons’ driving force (the Dream, the Eternal Alchemy, magic, quaggan kisses, whatever).

Civilis.2547:

There’s another interesting “Six” parallel that’s been running.
We have:
Red (fire) – Primordus
Black (death) – Zhaitan
Green (earth/plants) – Mordremoth
Purple (corruption/crystal) – Kralkatorrik
White (Ice) – Jormag
Blue (Water?) – “Bubbles”

We also have
Red (Fire/war) – Balthazar
Black (Death) – Grenth
Green (Nature) – Melandru
Purple (Chaos/Beauty) – Lyssa
White (Air/Healing) – Dwayna
???? – Abbadon or Kormir

And here’s another use of the Six taken directly from the Guild Wars wiki:

Observed Facets

Prophecies
Facet of Chaos
Facet of Darkness
Facet of Elements
Facet of Light
Facet of Nature
Facet of Strength

Eye of the North
Facet of Creation
Facet of Death
Facet of Destruction
Facet of Existence
Facet of Illusions
Facet of Spirit

We can easily link these to the Gods of Humanity and the Elder Dragons.

The overarching theme that dragons are a natural phenomina is the one that the recent information has been driving at.

Problematically, we killed one of them, and thus, fundamentally broke the natural balance of the world.

There are two possibilities here:

1. The dragons serve to naturally counterbalance each other, and after they rise and suck up magic they fight each other to a standstill and go back to sleep.

2. The dragons are tyria’s natural response to the intrusion of foreign beings, the human “gods” who, as we know, are not native to tyria but come from elsewhere in the mists.

In situation one, we’ve killed zhaitan, and thus unwittingly empowered the dragon he counterbalanced (possibly mordremoth) This could be problematic, but it’s a contained problem, as we’ve already proven capable of dealing with threats of this magnitude the peoples of tyria can step in the place of zhaitan and preserve that natural order.

Situation two is fundamentally more dire. If the dragons exist as a natural immune response to the human gods (which would explain their absence, as they’ve been driven away by the rise of said dragons) then we have effectively unshackled one of those gods.

Despite being worshipped by humanity for generations, history shows us that the gods are not by nature benevolent. Rather, their spheres act as a reflection of their personalities. If Zhaitan counterbalanced, say, melandru or grenth, we might have instigated a chain of events allowing one of these beings to effectively wrest power from another, and once that happens, a domino effect of increasing power would allow this being to usurp the spheres of all other gods.

Remember, the human gods aren’t “gods” as much as they are phenominally powerful extraplanar entities, subject to the same moral flaws as mortals. One of these beings, allowed an unchecked rise in power could effectively end the natural order of tyria and be a far worse threat than all dragons combined.

I was with the idea of balance of the eternal alchemy and the elder dragons but something just came to mind. If the pale tree knows of this balance and how critical it is to the world, why would Sylvari be fighting the elder dragons? Why would any Sylvari’s mission in life (like Caithe and the PC if Sylvari) be to kill Zhaitan.

Xukavi.4320:

I was with the idea of balance of the eternal alchemy and the elder dragons but something just came to mind. If the pale tree knows of this balance and how critical it is to the world, why would Sylvari be fighting the elder dragons? Why would any Sylvari’s mission in life (like Caithe and the PC if Sylvari) be to kill Zhaitan.

inb4 pale tree is mordremoths lieutenant and the next big world boss

Civilis.2547:

Given that the Inquest beat us into Dry Top, how much do they know?

Know enough to have zone green on CE running for a while and subject alpha with some Mordremoth “powers” when zone blue is still under construction because they are clueless about the deep sea dragon.

My own theory is this.
- Primordious opposite is Jormag. (fire vs ice)
- Kralkatorrik opposite is “Bubbles”. (desert vs sea)
- Zhaitan opposite is Mordremoth. (death vs life)

The death of Zhaitan throws everything out of natural order, thus it became necessary to wake up Mordremoth ahead of schedule. Only Mordremoth can naturally absorb the power and essence of Zhaitan, perhaps even restoring Orr in the process. Then filled with magical power, Mordremoth goes back to hibernation.

However, the corruption seems to be overwhelming Mordremoth and nothing is going as expected. So who knows what will happen next. I believe that the vines are the result of the clash of Mordremoth’s and Zhaitan’s power battling for domination.

My own theory is this.
- Primordious opposite is Jormag. (fire vs ice)
- Kralkatorrik opposite is “Bubbles”. (desert vs sea)
- Zhaitan opposite is Mordremoth. (death vs life)
The death of Zhaitan throws everything out of natural order, thus it became necessary to wake up Mordremoth ahead of schedule. Only Mordremoth can naturally absorb the power and essence of Zhaitan, perhaps even restoring Orr in the process. Then filled with magical power, Mordremoth goes back to hibernation.
However, the corruption seems to be overwhelming Mordremoth and nothing is going as expected. So who knows what will happen next. I believe that the vines are the result of the clash of Mordremoth’s and Zhaitan’s power battling for domination.

I didn’t realize this. I really like this theory.

zerorogue.9410:

My theory is this.
The dragons where destructive forces of nature that balanced out each other. However with zhaitan dead, the magic of zhaitan is now bleeding out into the mists. and if not stopped it will destabilize all of existence.

I just came to the same conclusion myself rewatching the scene. It also fits with Nochtli’s story about the monster drinking all the water from a stream. We are the warrior who slew the monster (Zhaitan), and now the waters (magic) in its belly are spilling forth to flood the world.

Dielots.5938:

zerorogue.9410:

My theory is this.
The dragons where destructive forces of nature that balanced out each other. However with zhaitan dead, the magic of zhaitan is now bleeding out into the mists. and if not stopped it will destabilize all of existence.

I just came to the same conclusion myself rewatching the scene. It also fits with Nochtli’s story about the monster drinking all the water from a stream. We are the warrior who slew the monster (Zhaitan), and now the waters (magic) in its belly are spilling forth to flood the world.

Well the lore up until this point didn’t paint the EDs as being in balance, they would literally cause massive destruction and mass extinction while they’re awake and then fall asleep when they’ve gobbled up all the magic. In terms of balancing out magic… well we don’t know if having too much magic is a bad thing. We know that races tend to kill each other in mass when there’s a lot of magic to go around, but that doesn’t really have much to do with the magic.

Of course it all really depends on where ANet goes with the plot, our (player) knowledge of EDs, Magic and the Eternal Alchemy are all rather limited.

Lethe.1640:

Facet of Chaos
Facet of Darkness
Facet of Elements
Facet of Light
Facet of Nature
Facet of Strength

That doesn’t really map to the dragons at all. It does map to the original six professions.

Facet of Creation
Facet of Death
Facet of Destruction
Facet of Existence
Facet of Illusions
Facet of Spirit

Those map well to the gods, but not to the dragons, which are all pretty much destruction.

Xukavi.4320:

I was with the idea of balance of the eternal alchemy and the elder dragons but something just came to mind. If the pale tree knows of this balance and how critical it is to the world, why would Sylvari be fighting the elder dragons? Why would any Sylvari’s mission in life (like Caithe and the PC if Sylvari) be to kill Zhaitan.

Well, if all the dragons are dead, where does all their power go? There might be a very good (evil) reason why the Pale Tree wants them destroyed. Maybe Scarlet woke Mordy up early so he could defend himself.

Sors Immani.8429:

I still can’t break the feeling that the “Eternal Alchemy” is connected to the Realm of Torment.

I think the Realm of Torment theory is the closest.

You’ve got Undead yelling “kitten your eyes” (Abbadon)
We had the Eye and the Mouth of Zhaitan both at the sunken shrine (Abbadon)
This eternal alchemy looks like the Realm of Torment (Abbadon again)

I seriously don’t think we killed Abbadon and who ever said that we’re being trolled by Abbadon in Kormir’s body is probably right.

Leallax.1482:

My own theory is this.
- Primordious opposite is Jormag. (fire vs ice)
- Kralkatorrik opposite is “Bubbles”. (desert vs sea)
- Zhaitan opposite is Mordremoth. (death vs life)
The death of Zhaitan throws everything out of natural order, thus it became necessary to wake up Mordremoth ahead of schedule. Only Mordremoth can naturally absorb the power and essence of Zhaitan, perhaps even restoring Orr in the process. Then filled with magical power, Mordremoth goes back to hibernation.
However, the corruption seems to be overwhelming Mordremoth and nothing is going as expected. So who knows what will happen next. I believe that the vines are the result of the clash of Mordremoth’s and Zhaitan’s power battling for domination.

I didn’t realize this. I really like this theory.

Mordremoth doesn’t seem so much a dragon of life as he is a dragon of plants, Just as Zhaitan doesn’t seem like the dragon of death as much as he seems like a dragon of undeath.

Plants do not equal life and Undead does not equal dead.

Also, Bubbles only awoke deep in the ocean, but that doesn’t automatically mean that he is a water dragon. The world of Guild Wars 2 normally doesn’t distinguish water and ice as separate elements, so its kind of weird that there would be both a water and an ice dragon with water and ice powers.

And Kralkatorric isn’t a desert dragon just because he’s in a desert.

Chrispy.5641:

Mordremoth doesn’t seem so much a dragon of life as he is a dragon of plants, Just as Zhaitan doesn’t seem like the dragon of death as much as he seems like a dragon of undeath.

Plants do not equal life and Undead does not equal dead.

Also, Bubbles only awoke deep in the ocean, but that doesn’t automatically mean that he is a water dragon. The world of Guild Wars 2 normally doesn’t distinguish water and ice as separate elements, so its kind of weird that there would be both a water and an ice dragon with water and ice powers.

And Kralkatorric isn’t a desert dragon just because he’s in a desert.

Imo Kralk is more “earth” or embodying hardness and inflexibility, than desert.

Still, if I labeled these dragons correctly (and if I’m right they represent dragons) they are paired off opposite each other in that fashion.

… That said, this thread is food for thought. I wanna re-examine the whole “dots as gods” thing.

EDIT: I guess if you actually follow the LINES drawn then they’re not opposite. Hmm.

Civilis.2547:

Bonus points for Zone Blue still being under construction. If that ever changes…

It wont because Crucible Of Eternity self destructs. But yes, they also spoke of having a specimen for Blue-Zone which was deemed very “large” and Inquest weren’t sure if they had enough space for it. Considering Kudu’s Monster and the Jotun in EXP, it would have to be fairly big if they weren’t confident in containing it for long.

What if the light green orb is Zhaitan and his death broke the balance of the Eternal Alchemy?

Xukavi.4320:

I was with the idea of balance of the eternal alchemy and the elder dragons but something just came to mind. If the pale tree knows of this balance and how critical it is to the world, why would Sylvari be fighting the elder dragons? Why would any Sylvari’s mission in life (like Caithe and the PC if Sylvari) be to kill Zhaitan.

It’s entirely possible that the tree didn’t actually KNOW this information, but rather that the dragons are a threat to her personally (being a thing full of magic)

Episode 3 should shine some light on the subject, assuming we get that audience and get to ask her about it.

Hmm.. interesting ideas here. What I DO like is that Scarlet pretty much told us that one day we would thank her for what she had done…

Maybe Mordremoth needed to be woken up either to absorb/correct for Zhaitan’s death, or she knew that the only way to re-balance the Eternal Alchemy was if both were destroyed; she needed to make Mordremoth an immediate threat so that things didn’t have even more time to become jarringly off-kilter.

Sors Immani.8429:

I still can’t break the feeling that the “Eternal Alchemy” is connected to the Realm of Torment.

I think that’s just a representation of a world seen by the eyes of someone who can see the Eternal Alchemy.

6 domains around a a central ‘core’ or ‘heart’.

PopeUrban.2578:

Xukavi.4320:

I was with the idea of balance of the eternal alchemy and the elder dragons but something just came to mind. If the pale tree knows of this balance and how critical it is to the world, why would Sylvari be fighting the elder dragons? Why would any Sylvari’s mission in life (like Caithe and the PC if Sylvari) be to kill Zhaitan.

It’s entirely possible that the tree didn’t actually KNOW this information, but rather that the dragons are a threat to her personally (being a thing full of magic)

Episode 3 should shine some light on the subject, assuming we get that audience and get to ask her about it.

Eh, I don’t like that. I’m much more confident and ok with the Pale Tree(s) being seeds of Mordremoth who simply didn’t answer the call than to find out that the Sylvari are center of Tyria as a whole. It sounds redundant and way more mary sue-ish than the cliche theory being that the Pale Tree(s) are champions and Mord’s children.

But we’re likely to gather quite a bit of information come Episode 3 surely. I just really hope that’s not the case. The Sylvari are the poster child for ANet, they wanted something different than the typical elves, trolls, and gnomes so they came up with the Asura, Charr, and Sylvari. I just don’t want to see the Sylvari constantly center stage at every single Season plot. Part of the reason why I’m rooting for the Champion theory is that hopefully when we go off to fight Prim, Jorm, Kral, and Bubb that we wont have to deal with Sylvari taking the ultimate hero.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Sors Immani.8429:

I still can’t break the feeling that the “Eternal Alchemy” is connected to the Realm of Torment.

I think that’s just a representation of a world seen by the eyes of someone who can see the Eternal Alchemy.

6 domains around a a central ‘core’ or ‘heart’.

That and we’ve only mapped out RoT in totality. It could just as easily be assumed that every single realm has the same structure thus, the Eternal Alchemy represents the design as being the mists in its infinite glory. Copying the same map scheme to represent all levels of realms. Onions have layers….

I don’t advocate to Realm of Torment playing much of a part in GW2 lore, at least not regarding Mord. This is just grasping at straws at this point.

Ronin.7381:

PopeUrban.2578:

Xukavi.4320:

I was with the idea of balance of the eternal alchemy and the elder dragons but something just came to mind. If the pale tree knows of this balance and how critical it is to the world, why would Sylvari be fighting the elder dragons? Why would any Sylvari’s mission in life (like Caithe and the PC if Sylvari) be to kill Zhaitan.

It’s entirely possible that the tree didn’t actually KNOW this information, but rather that the dragons are a threat to her personally (being a thing full of magic)

Episode 3 should shine some light on the subject, assuming we get that audience and get to ask her about it.

Eh, I don’t like that. I’m much more confident and ok with the Pale Tree(s) being seeds of Mordremoth who simply didn’t answer the call than to find out that the Sylvari are center of Tyria as a whole. It sounds redundant and way more mary sue-ish than the cliche theory being that the Pale Tree(s) are champions and Mord’s children.

But we’re likely to gather quite a bit of information come Episode 3 surely. I just really hope that’s not the case. The Sylvari are the poster child for ANet, they wanted something different than the typical elves, trolls, and gnomes so they came up with the Asura, Charr, and Sylvari. I just don’t want to see the Sylvari constantly center stage at every single Season plot. Part of the reason why I’m rooting for the Champion theory is that hopefully when we go off to fight Prim, Jorm, Kral, and Bubb that we wont have to deal with Sylvari taking the ultimate hero.

Can we never use the term “Mary Sue” again? There is nothing Mary Sue about the Pale Tree(s) being Mord’s minions… is it particularly creative? No. But it’s not “Mary Sue.”

But yes, I’d really like to see some of the other races get more involved with the story. But personally, I do think the trees were meant to create Corruptable Vessels for Mord’s magic. Ventari’s teaching actually caused the Pale Tree’s children to become immune to said corruption. This is why the Soundless and Scarlet (who turned her back on the Dream) have both fallen prey to Mord. Addtionally, it’s an awfully convenient way to explain why the PC sylvari won’t be corrupted.

Honestly, I’m of the opinion that the trees, and sylvari, aren’t as fundamentally connected to the dragons as that, but rather that they were engineered as weapons, specifically by those who may have revered mord or an enlightened champion of mord in the same way that the zephyrites revere glint.

Think about it, why would an entity that can crush its enemies from the very earth bother with such a convoluted scheme? He’s obviously more than capable of conjuring all manner of perfectly good minions without a secondary 20-year gestation vector.

In short, the terrible secret of the sylvari isn’t that they’re supposed to be dragon minions, but that they are tyria’s equivalent of a chemical weapon. A thing designed only for violence. The pale tree we know, thanks to ventari’s teachings, found this an abhorrent destiny, and sought to change it before she birthed her own litter of carpet bombs.

soakman.7539:

Can we never use the term “Mary Sue” again? There is nothing Mary Sue about the Pale Tree(s) being Mord’s minions… is it particularly creative? No. But it’s not “Mary Sue.”

What I said was that the Sylvari being “the center of it all as the embodiment of Tyria.” is “Mary Sue”. While being minions of Mord is cliche but still works comfortably. It’d be really stupid to see Sylvari helping Jormag, Primordus, Kral, and Bubb down the road – I’d rather investigate the cultures that these dragons are attacking.

Zhaitan was a unique experience because he was the only Elder Dragon we fought so of course the Sylvari needed some ploy to get them involved. But Prim is supposedly hitting Dominion of The Winds the hardest – you have a giant tooth in Hoelbrak which if broken means Jormag’s end is imminent by the one who broke it. Kral could see the Zephyrites recovering from the Meguumas and uniting to stop him, and there’s no telling where Bubbles is at right now.

This is why the Soundless and Scarlet (who turned her back on the Dream) have both fallen prey to Mord. Addtionally, it’s an awfully convenient way to explain why the PC sylvari won’t be corrupted.

The Soundless are non-violent by nature. All that the disconnect of the Dream means is that they are susceptible to corruption. Until we see additional clans or groups of Soundless that are suddenly running around and creating havoc, we can’t say with certainty that the Soundless are agents. Aerin was an isolated case, we don’t know what happened on that ship.

PopeUrban.2578:

Think about it, why would an entity that can crush its enemies from the very earth bother with such a convoluted scheme? He’s obviously more than capable of conjuring all manner of perfectly good minions without a secondary 20-year gestation vector.

Maybe Mord had to resort to creating new forces because the Pale Tree(s) were not answering his call when they should have.

If Zhaitan could shift land and create a tidal wave just by waking up, how come he didn’t just step on us instead of sending his stupid minions?

Seriously though, couldn’t the Elder Dragons simply step on us?

If Mordremoth is after the Pale Tree he needs a map, because he’s going in totally the wrong direction.

soakman.7539:

But yes, I’d really like to see some of the other races get more involved with the story. But personally, I do think the trees were meant to create Corruptable Vessels for Mord’s magic.

They don’t need to be. We’ve seen plenty of plant creatures in the world without people speculating they were related to a plant dragon. Sylvari being particularly susceptible to corruption by a plant dragon doesn’t need to mean that there’s any prior connection between them and the dragon whatsoever – just that they’re members of the flora kingdom and thus, without protection, are more vulnerable to effects that work on plants than members of the animal kingdom would be.

Now, Mordremoth wasn’t known at all when the theory was first made, but the theory was made to explain things that have since turned out to be false or to have other explanations.

In one of the topics I did say that I thought the reason Mordy attacked Concordia was because how they were excavating important artifacts and guess what info we get when we’re at Concordia? An amulet that shows the current heir of Kryta. What about Fort Salma?

From the final cutscene basically we’re told that the Eternal Alchemy has pieces that work and are in motion. Everything we know so far says that pretty much everything is linked to he Eternal Alchemy and they all serve a purpose. By this I’m talking about the Pale Tree, Nightmare, PC, human gods, dragons Scarlet, Caithe, Faolain. All of those are like pieces in a huge machine. One thing that really is getting on my mind lately is how i the Master of Peace connected to this all?