To start off, I’d like to say that I really do appreciate this update. Zones felt like an awesome battlefield and I enjoyed the story cutscenes. A lot of things were done well and I do feel that some parts of the living story have improved over time.
However there are also a lot of problems that this update has brought. My main problem is the issue of zerging champions during invaSions and ignoring the entire goal of the event. While participating in map chat, I was disappointed to see how the community reacted to calls to actually doing the event. Instead, people were opening telling people to just ignore the event and farm. It has really brought out what is to me the worst of the community in this game.
As this is the internet, it is only natural that there are hordes of people that aim only to zerg and get the most profit out of an event rather than playing it how it was intended. This means that the only solution is to develop content in a way that discourages or prevents such behavior. The invasions and champion loots together, while both good ideas, combine to make farming zergfests. As someone who wants to actually play the game and finish events, I feel that such zergfarming behavior being at the core of a huge game update is a step backwards for this game.
While I doubt that much will change as devs are already working on the next living story release, I hope that future releases will find ways to prevent and avoid the behavior that is occurring right now.
I think a lot of people genuinely don’t understand what they need to do here.
We just had a discussion about exactly this in a map I was in and a lot of people were insisting that as long as you’re killing Scarlet’s minions rather than the normal enemies you’re helping and it doesn’t matter whether there’s an event icon on that part of the map or not.
Danielle Aurorel, Dear Dragon We Got Your Cookies [Nom], Desolation (EU).
I think there’s only one single problem about the event chain and that’s that at the end of the mini events it appears to spawn a champion. Given people want for loot they stay and defeat the champion. If these bosses spawned at the start or in the middle it would remove this farming of champions. As people would continue on to the next event/champ and therefore also be completing the meta event. On a secondary note, removing the event spawns that no longer count towards the meta event and are not being interacted with might help also.
I agree with the TC. This just happened in Frostgorge Sound. The only people with commander titles were farming champions (except a friend of mine). We still didn’t make it because people were deliberately either ignoring the event or letting it stall for more farming.
“Retired” characters: Fruit Salad (Warrior), Blingerton (Engineer), Shixard (Ranger).
Current characters: Mistress Viridi (Elementalist), Pigeon Opener (Engineer).
3DS Friend Code: 0903-2770-3378. Mail me in-game if you add me!
To start off, I’d like to say that I really do appreciate this update. Zones felt like an awesome battlefield and I enjoyed the story cutscenes. A lot of things were done well and I do feel that some parts of the living story have improved over time.
However there are also a lot of problems that this update has brought. My main problem is the issue of zerging champions during invaSions and ignoring the entire goal of the event. While participating in map chat, I was disappointed to see how the community reacted to calls to actually doing the event. Instead, people were opening telling people to just ignore the event and farm. It has really brought out what is to me the worst of the community in this game.
As this is the internet, it is only natural that there are hordes of people that aim only to zerg and get the most profit out of an event rather than playing it how it was intended. This means that the only solution is to develop content in a way that discourages or prevents such behavior. The invasions and champion loots together, while both good ideas, combine to make farming zergfests. As someone who wants to actually play the game and finish events, I feel that such zergfarming behavior being at the core of a huge game update is a step backwards for this game.
While I doubt that much will change as devs are already working on the next living story release, I hope that future releases will find ways to prevent and avoid the behavior that is occurring right now.
You seem to be implying that zerging isn’t playing the game as intended. I disagree given that that the last 3-4 updates have significantly increased the benefit of zerging. If they didn’t like zerging they would introduce updates that discourage it.
HAHAHA they just really don’t want people to make gold in this game do they, first Dead Eye now this. The only way to make gold where they can’t nerf you is the trading post.
To start off, I’d like to say that I really do appreciate this update. Zones felt like an awesome battlefield and I enjoyed the story cutscenes. A lot of things were done well and I do feel that some parts of the living story have improved over time.
However there are also a lot of problems that this update has brought. My main problem is the issue of zerging champions during invaSions and ignoring the entire goal of the event. While participating in map chat, I was disappointed to see how the community reacted to calls to actually doing the event. Instead, people were opening telling people to just ignore the event and farm. It has really brought out what is to me the worst of the community in this game.
As this is the internet, it is only natural that there are hordes of people that aim only to zerg and get the most profit out of an event rather than playing it how it was intended. This means that the only solution is to develop content in a way that discourages or prevents such behavior. The invasions and champion loots together, while both good ideas, combine to make farming zergfests. As someone who wants to actually play the game and finish events, I feel that such zergfarming behavior being at the core of a huge game update is a step backwards for this game.
While I doubt that much will change as devs are already working on the next living story release, I hope that future releases will find ways to prevent and avoid the behavior that is occurring right now.
You seem to be implying that zerging isn’t playing the game as intended. I disagree given that that the last 3-4 updates have significantly increased the benefit of zerging. If they didn’t like zerging they would introduce updates that discourage it.
Hmm. Yeah, I do see your point.
In any case, I still do stand by my desire to have less zerging. Perhaps Anet does want zerging mechanics, and I don’t want to say that all zerging is bad since I do it at times too when I feel like just following a group, like in WvW. But what I don’t want to see is it becoming the main focus and center of content and gameplay as it has been in the last two releases.
And yes, I’m happy they’ve done something to solve the champion farming problem
HAHAHA they just really don’t want people to make gold in this game do they, first Dead Eye now this. The only way to make gold where they can’t nerf you is the trading post.
They could nerf it by turning it into something along the lines of Runescape’s Grand Exchange. Basically hiding all information except for general item price averages.
First off I think this could be GW2 best Living story yet. Its like world war 3 Guild wars style. It is very exciting watching multiple aetherblade dropships comming in across the horizon. And the battles are very long and fun.
And there is a level of risk vs reward and people either work together and win the event or they dont and get money. When u got 1000+ people of course you are going to have diffrence of opinion on what the horde should do. I dont think there IS a wrong way of doing it. Just because your prioritys are diffrent then someone elses and you cant FORCE everyone else to play it YOUR way doesnt mean there is something wrong.
Some times everyone works together and sometimes they dont, sometimes you win a the events and sometimes you dont.
And since you cant observe all 1000+ players at once don’t come on these forums making it sound like you know for a fact the majority is not working together to win just because you are seeing a group in front of you not doing what YOU want them to do. And dont come on here pretending like every map battle is like this, I have been playing almost 10 hours straight and its 50/50 right now if people finish the event sucessfully.
Sorry you can’t make everyone play your way bub. But some people like me enjoy it the way it is. Win some Lose some.
Besides were people not just complaining that events were too easy and all you need to do is zerg to win? Now you still zerg and have a possibility to lose if you cant work together which is perfect in my eyes.
I believe that posting an explanation to make people understand how the events and achievements actually work, so they wouldn’t insist that farmers are preventing them to get to the dungeon, would be more effective than nerfing the farm. I feel like nobody listens, they just want to complain and to fight each other.
Again: You will still get the achievements and good rewards even if the event fails, so it is no big deal.
Tarnished Coast
Astrid Strongheart, Norn Ranger.
“I wish juvenile wolves were bigger”
It’s not going to work. ArenaNet should remove the champion drops and add them as rewards for event completition (plus ban all the exploiters, of course – it’s rather obvious that intentionally failing an event in order to kill more champions is not playing the game as intended). Otherwise, they will just keep removing champions from events until the entire point behind the champion drops is rendered moot.
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
It’s obvious really. Remember how Anet wants to get rid of farming? Theyre just making events scale in such a way that people who try to farm them will get shouted at and hated, eventually getting ousted from the community. Bam, no more farming.
Over a year and the forum search is still broken = /
no, now people will just spam CHAMP HERE [location] and half the players will run there for a box breaking the event even more, its not the event that is the issue, its the people, greedy people are greedy, they care about the gold, not finishing the event as it is intended
The problem with this event are all the people that whine about it instead of playing the game. Good luck getting the achievements now, when the farmers are gone and the people get their 13 maps.
Good luck getting the achievements now, when the farmers are gone and the people get their 13 maps.
I would rather fail the event because there are few players in the map than fail the event because exploiters are becoming rich by farming the event I’m trying to complete.
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
I got to play this for the first time last night. I had no idea what I was meant to do. I was in LA and got the message that some area was being attacked, so off I went. I found a ton of people fighting the bad guys so I joined in. Once the circle was gone from the mini map, I searched for a new one and found a lot of people there too.
Is there another part I missed? Eventually Scarlet showed up but took no damage then disappeared, so on to the next circle on the mini map.
Rinse and repeat. What more is there to do there? Was there a part I missed? I eventually got a reward where I could pick either 40 something’s or 4 boxes of something else plus a few bits and pieces. Is that not the aim? Not trolling, genuinely confused if people are saying that, doing what I thought had to be done was ruining things for someone else.
Like so many people pointed out already, you get nothing better for completing the event. Killing the champs is not an exploit, it advances the event, if you get rich in the process, awesome. You can’t force people to play the way you want to. What if you are doing the Frostgorge invasion and half the people decide to go do Jormag. Are you going to blame them for not helping you because all are hoping to maybe get a nice drop from his chest?
Honestly, how is it an exploit to kill a Champ? People keep saying “exploit this” or" exploit that". It’s like saying the Liadri fight is based on luck. All we’re doing is playing a game. Where does it say that we’re forced to follow dynamic events as they occur? If my personal goal is to kill a Champion class enemy, that’s called a “choice”, not an “exploit”. If in the course of killing a Champion while the invasion is going on, players should be thanking us for helping them get rid of an enemy, not yelling and calling us names.
It’s not an exploit. People are trying very, very hard to complete the event. But it’s too difficult.
…Because it shows exactly what we are dealing with.
People are not killing champions to advance the event. In fact, one very easy way to farm is by not killing the event champions – in the “Kill the Aether Captain” event, ignoring the captain but killing everyone around him will assure a continuous stream of champions, as they would only stop spawning if the captain were killed. This stalls the invasion, and does absolutely nothing to help the players who are actually trying to complete the event.
The snowflake exploiters used very similar arguments, eight months ago.
ArenaNet intended for players to try to complete the dynamic events. Intentionally failing or stalling an event in order to farm, while being detrimental to other players, is playing the game in a way that has not been intended. Ergo, exploit.
I haven’t seen a single exploiter actually admiting he/she was exploiting. I do love some of the excuses they bring up, though.
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
It’s not going to work. ArenaNet should remove the champion drops and add them as rewards for event completition (plus ban all the exploiters, of course – it’s rather obvious that intentionally failing an event in order to kill more champions is not playing the game as intended). Otherwise, they will just keep removing champions from events until the entire point behind the champion drops is rendered moot.
I said a similar thing in another thread. They could also make champions spawns as events with increased rewards compared to, for example, and escort event.
It’s not going to work. ArenaNet should remove the champion drops and add them as rewards for event completition (plus ban all the exploiters, of course – it’s rather obvious that intentionally failing an event in order to kill more champions is not playing the game as intended). Otherwise, they will just keep removing champions from events until the entire point behind the champion drops is rendered moot.
If I do 1 event then afk, will you tell me I am an exploiter as well and call for a ban as well?
I give it Monday next week. Events will never get complete and they wil downscale them. This Nerf will make it harder.
I don’t know where you have been playing, but on my overflows only 1 out of 4 Invasions has been failing. I can live with those numbers and not all tries are meant to be succesful. You cannot tell people how to play just because a certain way suits you. How I spend the 45 minutes on the map is my own choice, and if i want to kill 5 champions before the captain I will do so. I look forward to what new ways people will come up with tomorrow, now that the champ spawn rate has been “slightly” reduced.
You cannot tell people how to play just because a certain way suits you.
True. I can, however, tell people that playing the game in the opposite way of how ArenaNet intended people to play is an exploit. And intentionally failing or stalling an event in order to farm is the opposite of how ArenaNet intended people to play. Ergo…
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
no, now people will just spam CHAMP HERE [location] and half the players will run there for a box breaking the event even more, its not the event that is the issue, its the people, greedy people are greedy, they care about the gold, not finishing the event as it is intended
You cannot tell people how to play just because a certain way suits you.
True. I can, however, tell people that playing the game in the opposite way of how ArenaNet intended people to play is an exploit. And intentionally failing or stalling an event in order to farm is the opposite of how ArenaNet intended people to play. Ergo…
If it wasn’t intended, it wouldn’t be possible. Something like a low threshold for credit isnt added by accident. You don’t design events for weeks on end and forget limits.
If you do, you have terrible designers/testers and it would be smarter to open up a public test server…
I’m sorry the farmers hurt your e-feelings because they didn’t care about a trivial event with 0 consequences to the game world if you failed. (And you’re actually rewarded for failing.)
The snowflake exploiters used very similar arguments, eight months ago.
ArenaNet intended for players to try to complete the dynamic events. Intentionally failing or stalling an event in order to farm, while being detrimental to other players, is playing the game in a way that has not been intended. Ergo, exploit.
I haven’t seen a single exploiter actually admiting he/she was exploiting. I do love some of the excuses they bring up, though.
Please don’t compare apples to jalapenos.
For the snowflake exploit, Anet didn’t intend on an item being able to produce more than what it should have, when it was salvaged. By using BL kits, you have a 100% chance to get back your material, plus a chance at bonus. It’s like taking a hot dog (1 hot dog + 1 bun), smashing it with a hammer, and getting two full hot dogs plus your bun back. THAT is an exploit.
For the Invasion maps, this is PvE. You have a choice to do it, or not. If I want to do the Claw of Jormag while the invasion is going on around me, I can. Might not be successful soloing it, but the point is that is my choice. If I want to do a Jumping Puzzle instead of fighting mobs, and by doing so I’m taking up a map slot, that’s my choice. I can’t be banned for playing the game as it was intended.
So there you have it. Hopefully this will help people who insist on throwing around misused terms.
ArenaNet is not the allmighty master that will force the players to complete events just so persons like you will be satisfied. This game requires a lot of gold if you want to have nice things, and this is the newest way to obtain it. If i am to be forced to spend 45 minutes each hour, doing mindless fights. It better be rewarding. The final reward after killing Scarlet is a joke, that’s why we look for other ways to make money. If you want to get rich, join in, if not – don’t, but stop trying to control people and call them exploiters. During all the invasions I have done (over 20 by now), the farmers have been minding their own business, joined by lost souls that do not know what the event is about. And there are always a few kittenes that feel the need to insult them and create a hostile environment in map chat.
This game requires a lot of gold if you want to have nice things, and this is the newest way to obtain it.
It’s not the only way to obtain it (you could farm champions in Frostgourge Sound, just to give one example – there you don’t ruin any event). It’s simply the easiest and fastest; the fact it requires people to play the game in the opposite of how ArenaNet intended people to play the game is meaningless for the exploiters, as is the fact that they are actually being detrimental to the players who want to do the event.
I can’t be banned for playing the game as it was intended.
And joining an event doing everything in your power to fail it or stall it is the opposite of playing the game as it was intended. Saying otherwise is the same as the Snowflake exploiters claiming they weren’t exploiting because they were just salvaging items, or the Cultural weapon exploiters trying to defend themselves claiming they were just buying stuff from a random merchant.
It’s not an exploit. People are trying very, very hard to complete the event. But it’s too difficult.
… I can’t even say what that is.
I don’t expect exploiters to post here saying, “I know I was exploiting and I don’t mind admitting it”. It would be nice if they didn’t try insulting our or ArenaNet’s intelligence.
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
I can’t be banned for playing the game as it was intended.
And joining an event doing everything in your power to fail it or stall it is the opposite of playing the game as it was intended. Saying otherwise is the same as the Snowflake exploiters claiming they weren’t exploiting because they were just salvaging items, or the Cultural weapon exploiters trying to defend themselves claiming they were just buying stuff from a random merchant.
All of those are excuses. And poor ones at that.
Again, apples and jalapenos. You keep trying to show examples of an exploit, when they are completely different examples. I’ll repost my reply to you, since you skipped to only the part you wanted to read:
For the snowflake exploit, Anet didn’t intend on an item being able to produce more than what it should have, when it was salvaged. By using BL kits, you have a 100% chance to get back your material, plus a chance at bonus. It’s like taking a hot dog (1 hot dog + 1 bun), smashing it with a hammer, and getting two full hot dogs plus your bun back. THAT is an exploit.
For the Invasion maps, this is PvE. You have a choice to do it, or not. If I want to do the Claw of Jormag while the invasion is going on around me, I can. Might not be successful soloing it, but the point is that is my choice. If I want to do a Jumping Puzzle instead of fighting mobs, and by doing so I’m taking up a map slot, that’s my choice. I can’t be banned for playing the game as it was intended.
So there you have it. Hopefully this will help people who insist on throwing around misused terms.
So today I’m going to do a bunch of Jumping Puzzles while the invasion is going on. Show me what rules I’ll be breaking, and I’ll stop.
So today I’m going to do a bunch of Jumping Puzzles while the invasion is going on. Show me what rules I’ll be breaking, and I’ll stop.
Do you want to see something interesting? Take a look at the rules of the game. Show me which rule were the Snowflake exploiters breaking, and which rule were the Cultural weapon exploiters breaking.
And comparing jumping puzzles to intentionally stalling an event: well, using a somewhat poor metaphor I have read recently, “apples and jalapenos.”
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
So today I’m going to do a bunch of Jumping Puzzles while the invasion is going on. Show me what rules I’ll be breaking, and I’ll stop.
Do you want to see something interesting? Take a look at the rules of the game. Show me which rule were the Snowflake exploiters breaking, and which rule were the Cultural weapon exploiters breaking.
And comparing jumping puzzles to intentionally stalling an event: well, using a somewhat poor metaphor I have read recently, “apples and jalapenos.”
You have yet to explain how my doing of Jumping Puzzles on Invasion maps is an exploit. I’m still waiting.
So today I’m going to do a bunch of Jumping Puzzles while the invasion is going on. Show me what rules I’ll be breaking, and I’ll stop.
Do you want to see something interesting? Take a look at the rules of the game. Show me which rule were the Snowflake exploiters breaking, and which rule were the Cultural weapon exploiters breaking.
And comparing jumping puzzles to intentionally stalling an event: well, using a somewhat poor metaphor I have read recently, “apples and jalapenos.”
You have yet to explain how my doing of Jumping Puzzles on Invasion maps is an exploit. I’m still waiting.
Sure, answer my previous post. I’m greatly amused at the kind of excuses you people like to use thinking you will get away with them.
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
So today I’m going to do a bunch of Jumping Puzzles while the invasion is going on. Show me what rules I’ll be breaking, and I’ll stop.
Do you want to see something interesting? Take a look at the rules of the game. Show me which rule were the Snowflake exploiters breaking, and which rule were the Cultural weapon exploiters breaking.
And comparing jumping puzzles to intentionally stalling an event: well, using a somewhat poor metaphor I have read recently, “apples and jalapenos.”
You have yet to explain how my doing of Jumping Puzzles on Invasion maps is an exploit. I’m still waiting.
Sure, answer my previous post. I’m greatly amused at the kind of excuses you people like to use thinking you will get away with them.
Actually, I already did. You just skipped my entire rebuttal because I made sense. Now you’re avoiding my follow up question because you know for a fact that you’re misusing the term “exploiter” to label people like me who don’t play the game your way.
This whole exercise has been to just inform you that using a negative word in the wrong way doesn’t help your case. You can flame and troll me all you want. The fact will remain that I’m not “exploiting” the game by not doing the quest you’re doing.
Now that this is settled, I’ll be skipping the JPs, and rejoining the zerg where I belong.
HAHAHA they just really don’t want people to make gold in this game do they, first Dead Eye now this. The only way to make gold where they can’t nerf you is the trading post.
They do, otherwise they wouldn’t make gold the number one method to acquire almost every new item in the game. If they didn’t want players to acquire gold, they’d use karma to acquire more skins, or tokens or soulbound item drops etc. But they use gold. Every single time, if you want Entropy, farm the gold for it. If you want Cobalt, farm gold for it. You don’t have to play specific content, hell it’s a disadvantage if you do anything but the most efficient gold farms.
Actually, I already did. You just skipped my entire rebuttal because I made sense. Now you’re avoiding my follow up question because you know for a fact that you’re misusing the term “exploiter” to label people like me who don’t play the game your way.
In other words, you avoided answering every single of my questions because you know they prove you wrong, and are using the “I already did” as a poor dodge. I can counter your arguments easily without having to hide behind excuses. Want one more example? Here:
You have yet to explain how my doing of Jumping Puzzles on Invasion maps is an exploit. I’m still waiting.
Show me the quote where I say that you doing a jumping puzzle is an exploit.
… Oh, you can’t? My, what a surprise!
The worst aspect of this update isn’t only how it creates a toxic community, but how it empowers the most toxic aspect of the community – ArenaNet is telling people that yes, they are exploiters, but they are not going to be punished for it. There’s little surprise in seeing how many of the Anchorage event exploiters are exploiting this now, as nothing bad happened to them after the first exploit, so it’s only logical that they would exploit more.
Ultimatelly, ArenaNet will realize that the champion boxes will have to go, or the exploiters will have to go. The game can’t work with both of those.
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
Removing the Champion loot boxes will just revert us back to the days when no one ever fought them. I’ll admit, they did have some..unexpected side effects, but the game is better with champions actually dropping good loot.
Also, I feel that Queen’s Gauntlet actually brought out the worst in all of us.
Why bother worrying about the event when the only reward for beating it is two rares?
Thats the problem. The incentive for finishing is pathetically low.
EDIT:
And the update didn’t make the community toxic. Its always been toxic. It just made it more noticeable. This is what happens when the only end game is “GET MORE GOLD!”
Better big zergs and tons of farm evens on a large mal than more gauntlet/pavillion style events (even though I like the idea very much) that just bring out the technical shortcomings of GW2 itself.
Why bother worrying about the event when the only reward for beating it is two rares?
Thats the problem. The incentive for finishing is pathetically low.
EDIT:
And the update didn’t make the community toxic. Its always been toxic. It just made it more noticeable. This is what happens when the only end game is “GET MORE GOLD!”
You only need to finish it once for achievement or whatever.
Otherwise let us farm and make our gold.
You’ll make way more money/loot doing the champ farm.
People are not killing champions to advance the event. In fact, one very easy way to farm is by not killing the event champions – in the “Kill the Aether Captain” event, ignoring the captain but killing everyone around him will assure a continuous stream of champions, as they would only stop spawning if the captain were killed. This stalls the invasion, and does absolutely nothing to help the players who are actually trying to complete the event.
You’ve stumbled onto the answer on how to fix this. Get rid of the constantly spawning champion enemies in those fights. Bam, you’ve nerfed the farming and gotten it to where people have to kill the boss to actually get the champion loot.
By the way, to those complaining about not being able to make gold, remember, the more people that have a lot of money, the more the prices of everything have to skyrocket to accomodate it. It’s not possible for all players to be rich and buy everything they want easily, you know.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
