Speculation: Religon connection.

Speculation: Religon connection.

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Posted by: Phoenix Fire.6203

Phoenix Fire.6203

This is pure speculation with not much evidence but I need to share it. This ties in almost all of the religions of Tyria. It starts with the mist taking Physical form as Koda and Koda creates the spirits of the wild. Alternatively, the Mist takes the form of all the Spirits of the Wild. The Human Gods are a bit different. Dwayna and Balthzar were humans who gained celestiel powers from the Mist. Abbadon was one of the Demons spawned from the Mist that gained intelligence. Duhm and Melandru are manifestations of the Mist, Duhm being the keeper of Death and Melandru the keeper of Natural life. Lyssa is the twin enbodiment of Chaos and Magic. Mellagen of the Quaggen religion is of course Melandru or possible the twin/countepart of Melandru, she is just given power over the sea, not the land. The Eternal Alchemy is an extension of the Mist, as is the Dream. The Great Dwarf is the collected mind of all Dwarves (this is fact I think). The Luxon demi-goddesses are elightend humans. I think thats about it. Now I want your speculations, thoughts, corrections, ect.

Plays on Fort Ranik.
Ceara Bramble 80 sylvari engineer.
Freyr Treewalker 80 sylvari ranger.

(edited by Phoenix Fire.6203)

Speculation: Religon connection.

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Posted by: Equinox.4968

Equinox.4968

I don’t see how any of this is groundbreaking, and a lot of it is based in speculation and not fact.

Ultimately, everything comes from the Mists, which is the GW term for the multiverse.

The spirits of the wild have pretty much already been around. They are known to exist, we have proof of their existence.

Koda is the deity of the kodan, but there is no known connection to the spirits of the wild. There is no evidence I’m aware of that would indicate one is the creator of the other, or even that they are related.

The origin of the human gods is definitely mysterious, but it’s too much of a blind leap to say that they were humans who gained powers from the Mists. The six gods came to Tyria alongside the humans, and simply because they are associated with humanity doesn’t mean that they are/were mere humans. All we know is that their powers can be transferred to humans/half-gods, as was the case with Kormir and Grenth; it doesn’t explain where their powers originally came from. There is no information available in GW1 or GW2 that explains where they came from, why they arrived in Tyria, or what caused them to leave (i.e. the Exodus). The six gods are no more “manifestations of the Mists” than the elder dragons or the spirits of the wild, or, for that matter, humans or norn.

The Eternal Alchemy is closer to Buddhism or the worship of physics and natural order than a religion. It has nothing to do with gods, demons, spirits, or anything like that, other than those entities’ relationship to the universe/multiverse as a whole. The asura simply believe that everything is interconnected, and that even the greatest and most powerful beings are merely facets of existence, since nothing is all-powerful and the relationships between different entities is what defines reality. Chaos theory is the closest comparison I can think of—if you break everything down into mathematical equations, you can calculate exactly what’s going to happen and what influences what.

The Dream is not a religion either. The devs have stated somewhere or other that the sylavari are agnostics, as they are new to the world and don’t have any religious beliefs because they have barely begun to explore their surroundings. The Dream is an empathic/mental/emotional link shared by all sylvari, and the Tree is a guiding figure but definitely not a deity.

The Luxon demigoddesses are an instance of hero-worship and shouldn’t be construed as actual deities. It’s in the vein of ancient Greeks paying homage to Theseus, Hercules, and other figures like that.

Please explain what you’re trying to demonstrate here, because I don’t see what you’re getting at, and some of your assertions directly contradict well-established lore or make logically unsound assumptions.

(edited by Equinox.4968)

Speculation: Religon connection.

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Posted by: Phoenix Fire.6203

Phoenix Fire.6203

I was just posting a speculation. One that I have been dying to get out. Thinking about you are right, it sounds slightly dumb and there is no fact, but thats the point of speculation and I jst wanted to get other peoples input. This was mainly me trying to make sense of the multiple religions. I think there was something somewhere about Balthazar’s family (or at least father) being human, wich is why I sais he and Dwayna were human.

Plays on Fort Ranik.
Ceara Bramble 80 sylvari engineer.
Freyr Treewalker 80 sylvari ranger.

Speculation: Religon connection.

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Posted by: Equinox.4968

Equinox.4968

This was mainly me trying to make sense of the multiple religions.

Thing is, this world works very differently from Tyria. In this world, we can point to certain beliefs spreading and changing over time, the common origins of certain branches of religions, and common themes in religion. For example, the flood myth found in Genesis is found in many if not most religions across the world. In Tyria, you have multiple pantheons and deities that can generally be objectively proven to actually exist, and the religions based on them can definitely be said not to come from the same source(s). To put it into perspective, religions in the real world are like humans themselves—ultimately, we’re all genetically the same, though there are minor variations. Religions in Tyria are like comparing bears to lizards to humans—we’re all completely different from one another, yet we all coexist.

I think there was something somewhere about Balthazar’s family (or at least father) being human, wich is why I sais he and Dwayna were human.

Balthazar has a half-brother, Menzies, who is also a god. His forces are contained in the Fissure of Woe. Grenth is Dwayna’s son, though his origins are unclear. There are some conflicting reports in the game, and we can’t be sure one way or the other.

Speculation: Religon connection.

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Posted by: Phoenix Fire.6203

Phoenix Fire.6203

I know about Menzies and Grenth, wich is why I never said anything about Grenth but instead talked about Duhm, and a correction to my previous statement about Balthazar be powered by the mist is corrected to he could possibly be half god like Grenth, father being human and mother being goddess.

About the mutiple religions, I guess what I’m saying is I am trying to make sense about the begining of the different deities, because the bear, the lizard, and the human all had a begging, they didnt just pop into existence someday. Something had to happen for them to be made, be it evolution or God, whatever you believe. So I guess I am kinda of comparing the Mist to God or the big bang.

Plays on Fort Ranik.
Ceara Bramble 80 sylvari engineer.
Freyr Treewalker 80 sylvari ranger.

Speculation: Religon connection.

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Posted by: Wanderer.3248

Wanderer.3248

Any of these theories are probably as good as any other because I doubt that even the GW2 writers have come up with origins for all these things yet.

It’s not that unusual for authors to have elements of their stories that are not fully fleshed out, or for the authors to not even know how their stories will end (Steven King’s Dark Tower books are a good example).

And even if they do have an idea of where the gods came from, they might change their mind in the course of developing the game. And authors in a game can come and go, which can mean revisions and ret-conning.

Take the speculation on whether Scarlet is or isn’t a servant of Mordremoth. I wouldn’t be all that surprised if the LS writers haven’t actually decided that for themselves.

Speculation: Religon connection.

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Posted by: Equinox.4968

Equinox.4968

Any of these theories are probably as good as any other because I doubt that even the GW2 writers have come up with origins for all these things yet.

There’s plenty of as-yet-uncontradicted lore from GW1. I think that it’s pretty unhelpful to assume that everything is in a basically permanent state of limbo; we ought to assume that whatever was stated in GW1 or the core game of GW2 and hasn’t been changed or negated yet is canon.

Take the speculation on whether Scarlet is or isn’t a servant of Mordremoth. I wouldn’t be all that surprised if the LS writers haven’t actually decided that for themselves.

It’s virutally incontrovertible that she WAS a servant of Mordremoth. Between the dragon glyph in her hideout, the fact that she’s a sylvari who was being taken over by a hostile entity, and the cinematic after she was killed, I don’t see any way she couldn’t be a dragon minion.

This seems to me to be the same issue as when people speculated that Kasmeer was going to die because of one tiny prick on her finger that wasn’t even really called out as significant in the Living Story. GW2’s writers are trying to be subtle, but only very rarely do they create justifiable controversy. It’s just that we’re grasping at straws, assuming that the story is more complex than it actually is (out of desperation maybe). In reality, I don’t think we have much of a reason to doubt that what’s being shown to us is true and that there aren’t three or four extra hidden layers of depth to the story.

Speculation: Religon connection.

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Posted by: Wanderer.3248

Wanderer.3248

Any of these theories are probably as good as any other because I doubt that even the GW2 writers have come up with origins for all these things yet.

There’s plenty of as-yet-uncontradicted lore from GW1. I think that it’s pretty unhelpful to assume that everything is in a basically permanent state of limbo; we ought to assume that whatever was stated in GW1 or the core game of GW2 and hasn’t been changed or negated yet is canon.

Take the speculation on whether Scarlet is or isn’t a servant of Mordremoth. I wouldn’t be all that surprised if the LS writers haven’t actually decided that for themselves.

It’s virutally incontrovertible that she WAS a servant of Mordremoth. Between the dragon glyph in her hideout, the fact that she’s a sylvari who was being taken over by a hostile entity, and the cinematic after she was killed, I don’t see any way she couldn’t be a dragon minion.

This seems to me to be the same issue as when people speculated that Kasmeer was going to die because of one tiny prick on her finger that wasn’t even really called out as significant in the Living Story. GW2’s writers are trying to be subtle, but only very rarely do they create justifiable controversy. It’s just that we’re grasping at straws, assuming that the story is more complex than it actually is (out of desperation maybe). In reality, I don’t think we have much of a reason to doubt that what’s being shown to us is true and that there aren’t three or four extra hidden layers of depth to the story.

Except they haven’t shown Scarlet to be a servant of Mordremoth. There have been plenty of opportunities for her to say so, but the writers have deliberately not revealed who her master was, or even that she was working for a dragon. The writers clearly do want things to be ambiguous.

We only know that waking the remaining dragon(s) was her goal, which was implied by the dragon mural, and then pretty much explicitly stated after the end of the LS.

Speculation: Religon connection.

in Lore

Posted by: Equinox.4968

Equinox.4968

Any of these theories are probably as good as any other because I doubt that even the GW2 writers have come up with origins for all these things yet.

There’s plenty of as-yet-uncontradicted lore from GW1. I think that it’s pretty unhelpful to assume that everything is in a basically permanent state of limbo; we ought to assume that whatever was stated in GW1 or the core game of GW2 and hasn’t been changed or negated yet is canon.

Take the speculation on whether Scarlet is or isn’t a servant of Mordremoth. I wouldn’t be all that surprised if the LS writers haven’t actually decided that for themselves.

It’s virutally incontrovertible that she WAS a servant of Mordremoth. Between the dragon glyph in her hideout, the fact that she’s a sylvari who was being taken over by a hostile entity, and the cinematic after she was killed, I don’t see any way she couldn’t be a dragon minion.

This seems to me to be the same issue as when people speculated that Kasmeer was going to die because of one tiny prick on her finger that wasn’t even really called out as significant in the Living Story. GW2’s writers are trying to be subtle, but only very rarely do they create justifiable controversy. It’s just that we’re grasping at straws, assuming that the story is more complex than it actually is (out of desperation maybe). In reality, I don’t think we have much of a reason to doubt that what’s being shown to us is true and that there aren’t three or four extra hidden layers of depth to the story.

Except they haven’t shown Scarlet to be a servant of Mordremoth. There have been plenty of opportunities for her to say so, but the writers have deliberately not revealed who her master was, or even that she was working for a dragon. The writers clearly do want things to be ambiguous.

We only know that waking the remaining dragon(s) was her goal, which was implied by the dragon mural, and then pretty much explicitly stated after the end of the LS.

They essentially have said so. Granted, the writers reveal important details like this really clumsily, but if you piece everything together that we’ve been told so far, that’s what you get.

Speculation: Religon connection.

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Posted by: Wanderer.3248

Wanderer.3248

Having Scarlet cut-off before she could say what her plans were wasn’t clumsiness, it was deliberate. It would have been easy for Scarlet to say “Mordremoth” or “a dragon” instead of “a new master”.

The writers were being intentionally vague. And possibly they were leaving themselves an out, in case they changed their mind.

Speculation: Religon connection.

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Posted by: Equinox.4968

Equinox.4968

Having Scarlet cut-off before she could say what her plans were wasn’t clumsiness, it was deliberate. It would have been easy for Scarlet to say “Mordremoth” or “a dragon” instead of “a new master”.

The writers were being intentionally vague. And possibly they were leaving themselves an out, in case they changed their mind.

If you say so…but believe me, this is how they work. They expect it’s going to be some huge reveal when everyone knows exactly what’s going to happen ahead of time. We don’t know all the details yet, but based on the lore hand-holding that we’ve come to expect, it’s virtually certain that it’s Mordremoth.

Speculation: Religon connection.

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Posted by: Wanderer.3248

Wanderer.3248

Having Scarlet cut-off before she could say what her plans were wasn’t clumsiness, it was deliberate. It would have been easy for Scarlet to say “Mordremoth” or “a dragon” instead of “a new master”.

The writers were being intentionally vague. And possibly they were leaving themselves an out, in case they changed their mind.

If you say so…but believe me, this is how they work. They expect it’s going to be some huge reveal when everyone knows exactly what’s going to happen ahead of time. We don’t know all the details yet, but based on the lore hand-holding that we’ve come to expect, it’s virtually certain that it’s Mordremoth.

If I was a writer, I’d make the big reveal contradict everyone’s expectations, just to mess with them.

Speculation: Religon connection.

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Posted by: Equinox.4968

Equinox.4968

If I was a writer, I’d make the big reveal contradict everyone’s expectations, just to mess with them.

I wish the writers could actually make something like this work…but Season 1 more or less proved that they can’t. Here’s hoping Season 2 will be better.