Guild Wars 2

The Theory

We think that the direction the Living World is going in might result in the revisiting of old enemies. Namely, the WHITE MANTLE. Why do we think that? Now let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Let’s start by going through what has happened so far. Here’s our attempt to analyse the Living Story Season 1.

Destiny’s Edge 2.0 (B-Iconics)

Let us examine the cast of characters that have been in the spotlight for most of this Living World Season. Popularly dubbed by the community as Destiny’s Edge 2.0, this diverse group of NPCs have been the ones participating in the events as the heroes that will be remembered, an analogue for the players that can never be truly remembered in the history of Tyria.

To make things simple, let’s first follow Rox. Rox is a Gladium that’s looking for a place to belong, a warband. She has been undergoing trials in order to join Rytlock Brimstone’s warband. She’s fought the Molten Alliance, meeting Frostbite her devourer and Braham Eirsson along the way. Later she’s at the Queen’s Jubilee with Braham. After that Rytlock tells her to track and kill Tequatl to be part of the warband. She also travels to the Tower of Nightmares in Kessex Hills and meets Kasmeer and Marjory who are investigating the tower. All of them participate in the battle against the Marionette, meeting an Asuran progeny prodigy named Taimi along the way. Most recently, she’s been told by Rytlock that if she kills Scarlet, she would be let into the warband.

The most interesting part about this group is that almost all of them somehow have something to do with the members of Destiny’s Edge. Rox is becoming an avenue for Rytlock to participate tangentially in the story once more. Braham has issues regarding his mother Eir that are somehow coming to light because of the focus on him. It is mentioned that Taimi is Zojja’s apprentice. Even Logan weirdly takes part by telling Taimi she’s too young to be on the battlefield. That only leaves Caithe who actually has some history with Scarlet herself.

Now, with that said, isn’t it interesting that these new characters are trying to involve the older ones into the story? It’s as if their relationships have been tailor-made to involve the old cast even just incidentally. Now that we’re experiencing the story from the point of view of these characters, it has become apparent that they’ve become a possible avenue for the members of Destiny’s Edge to become involved once more in the bigger picture. They have after all been relegated to the side lines. So what if this is setting up a chance for them to be involved again? Only time will tell.

For now, comes the more interesting question: All the new characters including Scarlet have had a role in being the avenue to relate to older characters in order to give them fresh stories. But what about Marjory and Kasmeer? They don’t have anything to do with Destiny’s Edge. They have no old characters that relate to them to bring up like the others. From a story telling perspective, so far Marjory and Kasmeer have functioned as the sort of detective agency that pushes forward the story based on what they deduce, but is that all they have to offer?

UPDATE:
FearTheOyster has supplied us with information that connects Marjory and Kasmeer directly to Logan Thackeray. Much thanks for pointing it out! Glad to see a more substantial connection between the A-iconics and the B-iconics. This hopefully makes their supposed function, as an avenue for the A-iconics, more prevalent.

FearTheOyster.5138:

Marjory was directly hired by Logan Thackeray to investigate Theo Ashford’s assassination, and Kasmeer her assistant. That is how they get involved in the storyline, and (for a while, anyways) who they report to in regards to the storyline. Kasmeer even seems to be familiar with Logan as well, probably due to him meeting and knowing a lot of nobility.

That said, Logan’s association with Taimi is far more tenuous at best. If anything, they are just distant acquaintances.

They eventually started delivering their discoveries to Ellen Keil when things began to implicate corruption and mayhem in LA politics, of course.

The White Mantle Kerfuffle

In order to understand this theory more, one needs to remember the past. The Guild Wars 1 past to be exact. The White Mantle were a major faction of humans during the first game and were integral to the story. In Guild Wars 2, the White Mantle are mentioned every once in a while but are given no major importance for the main story.

There are lots of resources out there and forum posts that explain the White Mantle and the Mursaat so let’s just cover the relevant points briefly.

The White Mantle
The White Mantle were one of the main antagonists of Guild Wars 1. They were the human cult that were the tools of the bigger antagonists, the Mursaat. They ruled over Kryta and fooled the people into being sacrificed onto the bloodstones for the goals of their masters.

The Mursaat

One of the old races, also called the Unseen Ones. This race of invisible floating spellcasters were the big bad in Guild Wars 1. They were tasked with keeping the Door of Komalie closed and used the White Mantle to sacrifice those who were destined to wipe them out to power up the soul batteries that kept the Door closed.

The Shining Blade

An organization that still holds present day relevance in Guild Wars 2 as an elite guard to the Throne, the Shining Blade were royalists that were against the ways of the White Mantle. They sought to restore the monarchy to Kryta. While taking on this endeavour, they uncover the secrets of the Mursaat and the unjust sacrifices. They were based in the Maguuma Jungle, using guerrilla tactics to strike at the White Mantle from a distance.

The White Mantle were eventually defeated along with the Mursaat. The Shining Blade, during a mission called “The Battle for Lion’s Arch” (I SEE WHAT YOU DID THAR ANET), defeated waves upon waves of White Mantle and Mursaat.

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Battle_for_Lion%27s_Arch
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_battle_for_lion%27s_arch

Thus they managed to displace the White Mantle and restore the monarchy to General Salma of the Shining Blade, who was now Queen. The White Mantle were now in shambles and the last surviving Mursaat, Lazarus the Dire also disappeared.

Maguuma: The Next Frontier

With the events of this current living world story, “The Battle for Lion’s Arch”, the result of Scarlet Briar’s madness resulted in the awakening of Mordremoth, the Jungle Dragon. The Breachmaker succeeded in drilling down to the magical leylines in order to somehow disrupt them.

In the Cinematic, we see the stream of energy lead past the Thaumanova Reactor, across some barren plains, then into an area of lush vegetation. Mushrooms and heavy jungle set the stage for what we see next, a set of teeth that begin to open and feed off the magic. The Teeth of Mordremoth. (Kudos to those that pointed out the Crucible of Eternity’s Subject Alpha’s skill called “The Teeth of Mordremoth” way back in the day.)

So it looks like the next area of interest we might possibly be venturing to would be the Maguuma Jungle. Magus Falls to be specific according to some sources, which they say would be the probable resting place of Mordremoth.

How does this relate in any way to the White Mantle? Wouldn’t the main story be about the Dragon? How would the White Mantle even be relevant to the story in this day and age? For that we have to look into the members of interest of “Destiny’s Edge 2.0”, Marjory Delaqua and Kasmeer Meade.

Marjory Delaqua: The Last Straw

On the main site of Guild Wars 2, they publish official stories that offer a bit more flavour for the characters of their world. One of these stories, is about Marjory Delaqua and is entitled “The Last Straw”.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/marjorys-story-the-last-straw-part-1/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/marjorys-story-the-last-straw-part-2/

Marjory was originally a member of the Ministry Guard but was slowly becoming fed up with their brand of justice. She left and formed Delaqua Investigations with
Kasmeer Meade with the help of the mysterious benefactor “E”.

In the two part short story, Marjory is at ends with another member of the Ministry
Guard about the murder of a boy that she deemed unjust. The boy’s ghost appears before her and tries to explain witnessing the torture of a woman before being blasted to the Mists by a man named Kraig the Bleak. It was “E” that offered the name of the man, and eventually the funding for Delaqua Investigations.

We can glean one interesting point from this story. All is not right in the human kingdom of Kryta. The story has always mentioned that the Ministry has been at odds with the Throne. This furthers the point that there is still conflict and injustice going on in the streets of Divinity’s Reach.

There is another character that can be seen giving more hints. The ever lovable Heal-o-Tron.

Heal-o-Tron & the Seraph

Now, in the “Escape from Lion’s Arch” Heal-o-Tron is shown to have been taking up medical duties to help relieve the victims. Anyone who has stuck around the Gendarran Fields Refugee Camp have probably noticed that a couple of Seraph visit and try to apprehend Heal-o-Tron.

In the exchange, the Seraph attempt to arrest Heal-o-Tron for allegedly cooperating with Scarlet Briar. Heal-o-tron is adamant in its refusal to cooperate and mentions that the Seraph only want him for a certain reason. A reason that is abruptly cut off as Heal-o-Tron is trying to say it.

This brings about more suspicion upon the politics of Kryta. The Seraph are a separate body from the Ministry Guard. However, it is the Krytan Ministry that is in charge of the deployment of the Seraph. So we can still see a connection between them.

Was this little part of the story just added for flavour? Or is there something bigger brewing hiding under the attempted arrest of a certain little golem?

Included here is a youtube video of the said conversation:
http://youtu.be/wZZcBc_A80o?t=35s

Politics and Banditry

Now that we have established that in the current story, there have been hints of unrest within the ruling body of Kryta, specifically Divinity’s Reach. Let’s go back to the old content, what was in there about this? How do we even know this is a real thing? Here are a few pieces of key evidence from official descriptions that point to this being a consistent problem since the beginning of Guild Wars 2.

Crime and Punishment

When you create a human character, the first chapter of your personal story is called Crime and Punishment. The story focuses on the shifty politics surrounding the human capital of Divinity’s Reach. Whether you pick Commoner, Noble, or Street Rat you would have to deal with the problems of the city regarding thieves, bandits, and corruption.

This sets up the stage for the very human problem of politics and organizations fighting for power.

The Ministry

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ministry

The legal body of Krytan Government, usually at odds with the Queen for several reasons. They make a lot of the decisions when it comes to Divinity’s Reach, one particular power being the ability to decide where Seraph are deployed.

When the King died the Ministry ruled over Divinity’s Reach as Jennah was still too young to rule. When she came into proper power, the Ministry, having become accustomed to being in power was reluctant in relinquishing their power. Another act that has them at odds is Jennah’s support for the Human and Charr Peach Treaty.

Legate Minister Caudecus Beetlestone the Wise

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Minister_Caudecus

One central figure in this whole kerfuffle is one Caudecus Beetlestone. It’s described that as Legate Minister, he holds the highest office in the Krytan Ministry and has great power over the Ministry Guard. He is basically the head of the Krytan Ministry.

In the dungeon Caudecus Manor, you end up having to deal with bandits that allegedly have dealings with Caudecus. Logan tries to arrest Caudecus at the end, but Queen Jennah in an act of shrewd politicking deemed Caudecus innocent and invited him to stay at the Castle, where his movements would be more restricted and where they can probably keep a closer eye on him. Caudecus is visibly reluctant to accept, but does so anyways.

The White Bandits

Now where is the White Mantle in all of this? Whatever happened to them anyways? In a very specific part of the human personal story, this becomes apparent.

Family Reunion: Unknown Parents

In the next chapter of the human personal story, if you had picked Unknown Parents as one of your defining characteristics. You would get to experience bandits trying to assassinate you. These bandits are what the Shining Blade reveal to be the remnants of the White Mantle who are trying to wrest power in Divinity’s Reach. They try to assassinate you because your parents were apparently spies for the throne.

We can conclude from this then that the bandits, though probably with personal motives, are within the same realm as the White Mantle. Both parties share the same desire to wrest power from the throne. This establishes a connection between the bandit gangs and the remnants of the White Mantle. With that said, would it be far off from the truth to say that White Mantle remnants, working for the same goals as the said bandits, could have ties with the Ministry? Caudecus being the central figure of suspicion here, it could be a possibility that the two are connected.

Role Reversal

The Shining Blade is now the Krytan Royalty’s Personal Guard. They are in power. The White Mantle however, are now striking from the shadows, taking pot shots at the Kingdom. This is a direct reversal of their roles from Guild Wars 1.

In Guild Wars 1, the White Mantle were the ruling body and the Shining Blade could be equated to bandits striking from the shadows, employing subterfuge to slowly dent the more powerful organization. The Shining Blade made their camps in the jungle and took pot shots at the White Mantle.

Now where are the White Mantle? When they were defeated, their remnants fled to the very same jungle where the Shining Blade once hid: The Maguuma Jungle.

Mordremoth: The Coincidental Dragon

The explosion in Lion’s Arch and that caused a magical chain reaction woke it up, and the people took notice. This will probably take the story in that direction, with the involvement of the characters of our story so far.

Now the idea that we’ll be taking on another Elder Dragon very soon is a very attractive one, but would we realistically be getting there right away?

Quoting Okonomide from the Reddit Discussion:
“…But wait, what about Mordremoth? Doesn’t he seem to be the more immediate danger? Well, from what we’ve witnessed in the final cinematic, the disruption of the leylines caused Mordremoth to stir.

Does this mean he’s fully awake? Possibly. Yet there’s an equal likelihood that he might not fully surface yet. As in the case with Primordius, it might take a while for this dragon to fully rise into power. Or he could be like the rest of the dragons, who’ve fully awakened yet are relegated to the fringes of the continent: distant threats bidding their time, raising their army.

This part is mostly just my own speculation based on the behavior of the other dragons when they woke up. But it really feels like there needs to be more events first before Mordremoth becomes an immediate danger just like Zhaitan was. Again, I’m just posing this as a possibility."

Now that we know that he’s awake in Maguuma though, we would have to make our way there, just like how we made our way to Zhaitan.

This brings us to several interesting locations and possibilities.

The Thaumanova Reactor

The giant beam of light that shines outward from Lion’s Arch shares the same attributes as the one coming from the exploded Thaumanova Reactor. This might be an interesting point of interest, as they share bounds of magical energy.

Ellen Kiel was also very interested in this place, even funding research into a fractal about it. It even appears deliberately in the cinematic with the same leylines passing through it on the way to Mordremoth.

Magus Falls

The alleged resting place of Mordremoth. This place also has several points of interest. Including the much talked about Pale Tree of Malyck. Could story could take a turn there?

Brisban Wildlands: Aurora’s Remains

The most interesting area to us though, is the Brisban Wildlands. The map holds interesting locations that are present in Guild Wars 1 and a fort that seems to be an entrance into the Maguuma Wastes.

Two very noteworthy locations are The Shattered Henge and Aurora’s Remains. In Guild Wars 1, these were known as the Henge of Denravi and The Aurora Glade respectively.

Let’s focus on Aurora’s Remains here. No heart quests or personal stories would naturally lead you to Aurora’s Remains. For most people, this is one of the areas that would probably be missing from your Maguuma Explorer achievement.

If you go there however, what you’ll see is very interesting. Ghosts of the White Mantle and Shining Blade, still duking it out after all these years. You can even finish an event chain that helps out Less Longbow, a Shining Blade member from GW1, to defeat Demagogue, a White Mantle Champion from GW1. All this also happens during the mission in Aurora Glade from the first game. Very cool throwback.

What’s interesting about this area though is the foliage. The foliage bears a striking resemblance to the heavily jungled area we see in the ending cinematic. Not to say that this is the area, but being in the lower hand left corner of brisban, it seems to be at least close to the Magus Falls area.

So if we investigate Mordremoth’s awakening, could it be a possibility that we would be passing areas like this? Areas with White Mantle and Shining Blade history? Could more White Mantle remnants be hiding in the deeper portions of the Jungle? The Wastes?

EDIT: It has been brought to our attention that the italicized observations allude to a boss and it’s minions that you need to dispatch in order to gain access to the Aurora Glade mission in GW1. Credit goes to MaesterTed for pointing it out!

“One very interesting thing that struck us on our expedition there was very strange and very out of place. In a small area in Aurora’s Remains, above the fighting of the White Mantle and Shining Blade ghosts. There is a single monster there that doesn’t seem be seen anywhere else. A Veteran Root Behemoth. (attached is a picture)

This Veteran Root Behemoth looked exactly like your usual jungle wurm, but was transparent, spectral in nature you could say. Why does it have a special name as well? This seems to be the only occurrence of a Jungle Wurm with this name. Does it have anything to do with Mordremoth perhaps? Others have insinuated that the Great Jungle Wurm and the Summoned Husks in Caledon are also Mordremoth’s fault. Could the new Great Jungle Wurm terrorizing Bloodtide Coast have something to do with Mordremoth as well?"

UPDATE2:
Upon further investigation by SkeletalHorses, all the troops within the Brisban Wildlands area seem to have been dispatched there by Queen Jennah with the purpose of uncovering White Mantle rumors surrounding the area. After completing the Renown Hearts, the NPCs open up to you about their purpose there.

This is very interesting due to the nature of Belinda Delaqua’s mission to Brisban regarding black market trade. This could possibly intersect with the White Mantle interest there. To further tie everything together, Belinda’s involvement might just be the link we need for Marjory’s investigations to find their way to Brisban, and hopefully, the White Mantle.

Included are screenshots of various conversations with NPCs talking about White Mantle.

BloodStones, Druids, and Mantle, Oh My.

Maguuma is a treasure trove of lore from GW1. Passing by these areas might trigger a turn for the story to go back to previous enemies and plot devices.

Maguuma is home to one of the Bloodstones. A key point in the story between the White Mantle and the Shining Blade. The turning point in GW1 where you find out the Mantle is not completely innocent actually happens here.

The Jungles were also home to the Druids, a lost race of humans that transcended their bodies in favour of being one with nature. It’s actually said that some of the Druid Spirits remain in Brisban Wildlands.

The Mantle however, are our focus here. All the signs point to the White Mantle being a possible returning force in Tyria.

Bringing It All Together, Possibilities and Questions

Now having looked at all of that, the possibility that the story might touch upon the White Mantle becomes a bit more possible.

With all of the attention forming at Maguuma, the refuge of the White Mantle remnants, we might just bump into them. With the players venturing forth there, we would be accompanied by our heroes of the hour Destiny’s Edge 2.0, or the real Destiny’s Edge, or maybe even both!

• The sprinkling of suspicion upon the Krytan Ministry, the still unknown desire of the Seraph for Heal-o-Tron, and the continuing investigations of Marjory Delaqua still beg explanations. Could this be the answer? Could this be the next Living World Season?
• Who is E? We still have no idea. All we know is that he wishes to help Marjory in her investigations. (I know it’s a stretch but the leader of the Shining Blade in GW1 is named Evennia if that can be anything)
• Does it bother any one of you that the name of the murderer of the boy’s ghost in the story of Marjory, Kraig the Bleak, shares the same naming convention as Mursaat from Guild Wars 1?
• Whatever happened to Lazarus the Dire, the last surviving Mursaat?
• What has the White Mantle been doing in the Jungle?
• Are they still trying to usurp power within Divinity’s Reach?
• Is the title “The Battle for Lion’s Arch” really a throwback to the old mission where we fight the Mursaat and White Mantle? Is this ANET subverting the story and using it to bring the White Mantle and Mursaat back to the big stage? The parallelism is amazing.

UPDATE!
The recent patch “The Battle for Lion’s Arch – Aftermath” has recently uncovered a connection between the Brisban Wildlands and Marjory Delaqua.

Marjory’s sister has been dispatched to the Brisban Wildlands to deal with black market activities that are currently affecting the economy of Divinity’s Reach.

Could this be a possible plot point that will connect to Marjory’s unresolved story “The Last Straw”? Could this be possible avenue for White Mantle banditry to finally see the light of day clearly? Only time will tell!

Summary:
So as far as theories go, to sum it all up, we might just be headed to Maguuma to bring the smackdown upon the White Mantle once again by way of Marjory Delaqua’s continuing investigations regarding the ministry and the recent allusion to suspicious politics with the Seraph and Krytan Ministry

In Closing

Now I would like to thank ANYONE who actually sat down and read through this inane rambling. If you guys have anything to contribute to the discussion, that would be amazing. Share your own theories and play nice! Speculation is great fun.

Much Love to all of you and to ArenaNet as well,

Xenocomplex & SkeletalHorses
Salt Factory (Fort Aspenwood)

Much thanks to Blurk & Dunan Atreides for the suggestion to move to lore and story!

And thanks to Blurkmasterjay of reddit for suggesting to put this in Lore & Story in the First place!

This is interesting speculation. I think Marjory would would point it out as just that though, and say we need to gather more evidence.

I haven’t seen any tid-bits about the mantle in the Gw2 lore until you just pointed it out, so thank you. I’ll keep an eye out for references to it in the future.

Shockwave.1230:

This is interesting speculation. I think Marjory would would point it out as just that though, and say we need to gather more evidence.

Either that, or once the story comes into play, there will already be a significant amount of information amassed. I recently completed Brisban Wildlands and earlier, I was sifting through my inbox and noticed that one of the NPC letters (the one from completing the renowned heart that involves infiltrating Seanan’s Bandit Camp in the Brisban Wildlands) mentions that they’re investigating for White Mantle activity on the orders of Queen Jennah. They’ve been onto this thing for a while now.

• Edit * Here’s the letter in question: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrate_and_disrupt_Seanan%27s_bandits

Also, the White Mantle and Bandit emblems look fairly similar. And considering the high bandit density in Brisban, I can definitely see the connection there.

Cenex.4089:

Also, the White Mantle and Bandit emblems look fairly similar. And considering the high bandit density in Brisban, I can definitely see the connection there.

Oh wow, I didn’t even notice that. It does look interestingly similar. The top arch from the White Mantle emblem shares similarities with the lower arch from the bandit’s, as if it just fell down or something.

And yeah, totally tons of bandits in Brisban. That Fort in Vandal’s Claim really seems like an entrance to more of Maguuma. I really hope that’s the case.

Wow. This post was huge! :P
But it was a good read: well written and many interesting pieces of information! So hats off. My first thought when I saw the subject was “Well, my God Abaddon, this seems a little bit far-fetched”. But what (positively) surprised me is that you’re not necessarily putting them up as the main antagonists of the next LS season.
Instead, you’re just pointing out that it doesn’t seems unlikely that we will run into them. And that certainly peaks my interest!

I think it would be very interesting to learn more about their downfall, and their current presence in the world. I do not find much interest in having them return as the main antagonists though. That would just be milking an old cow for me. “It’s a closed chapter, they’re defeated. Been there, done that. Played that story, don’t wanna do it again”.

But having them kinda on the sideline would be very interesting to me. Hopefully, we can learn a little bit of their history, and maybe having them bridge us over to a new and/or greater goal.

Just popped into my head: say we stumble upon an abondoned WM camp/town. Except, it’s empty. Literally no one or nothing there, except tattered banners and flags. A total ghost town, but without the ghosts.

All there is, are a few broken journals, books and clues scattered around. They give us some background story + clues as to why they disappeared and what happened here (e.g. Mordremoth corruption). I think it would be really interesting and smart if ANet took a couple of small “pauses”. If they took some small breakes to add some purely lore-building patches to the LS; just introducing more depth and building solid foundations for their story (which was what they did not do in LS s1: where the events rushed ahead a bit too quickly, and the plot was left limping behind).

Anyways, was a good read! Thanks

Oh my god that… im stunned. This is a theory i was waiting for. I might think u nailed it.
My only concern is that u guys are better theorycrafters/storytellers then Anet

Highly doubt. Seems like most of GW1 lore has been already forgotten or thrown away, because they’re making “a new game”.
When you liked the story of first game, seeing Staff of the Mists to buy on TP or some random backpack “Tome of Rubicon” , such things make you tremble.

Anyway, back to the point. My “speculation” is that it’s mostly Plant People story going on because it wasn’t enough already and staff seems fascinated about making more and more lore regarding to them.

For White Mantle etc. – Story here is pretty complicated, involving politics, and from what we’ve seen till now, I can guess we will see maybe some sidequest or random tomb, if anything.

Don’t ruin those.

The white mantle has never been gone.

If you done the human personal story line with “unknown parents” choice at the char making screens. You’d encounter the white mantle who killed your parents, and try to kill you. But instead you get to kill the white mantle yourself with logan. According to Anet, they are clearly not just hiding in maguuma jungles, but also infiltrated within kryta.

Maybe the next expansion or living story arc will show us more about the white mantle, who knows.

Very interesting. It’s possible we could see a White Mantle/Mordremoth Hybrid appear in the future (Similiar to Svanir). We have to see how the corruption influences it’s victims.

As of late the only thing we have to look at was Scarlet, and we killed her before finding out what exactly motivated her, though it definitely was hinted that Mordremoth was the source of her madness.

Maybe the White Mantle will try to become a stronger force with the use of Mordremoth to overthrow Kryta, only to later be consumed by the dragon.

One thing to note though, In past events, the Mursaat never were the type to stick around during the dragons, and were noted to flee into the mists during the previous awakening. With the White Mantle faithfully following the Unseen Ones, I wonder how this would play out with a dragon in the mix.

This is what wiki tell when searching for bandits.

copypaste: Bandits have been seen throughout Kryta and the Brisban Wildlands, where they are in surprisingly large numbers. They are in an alliance with centaurs in the war, supplying the centaurs with both materials and enslaved villagers. They are also attempting alliances with the Inquest and Nightmare Court.

Rumors indicate that many bandit organisations are tied to the White Mantle. Several ministers and parts of the Ministry Guard are secretly supporting them. There is strong evidence of support by Julius Zamon and Caudecus Beetlestone.

Rym.1469:

Highly doubt. Seems like most of GW1 lore has been already forgotten or thrown away, because they’re making “a new game”.
When you liked the story of first game, seeing Staff of the Mists to buy on TP or some random backpack “Tome of Rubicon” , such things make you tremble.

Anyway, back to the point. My “speculation” is that it’s mostly Plant People story going on because it wasn’t enough already and staff seems fascinated about making more and more lore regarding to them.

For White Mantle etc. – Story here is pretty complicated, involving politics, and from what we’ve seen till now, I can guess we will see maybe some sidequest or random tomb, if anything.

Don’t ruin those.

Ah…Personally, I wouldn’t want to completely give up on the old lore just yet. If ANet doesn’t want to touch upon GW1 lore anymore (the White Mantle and the Mursaat, for example) why are there still signs their activity sprinkled here and there? If the Mursaat and the White Mantle are trully gone, they could’ve opt to just mention them in historical texts as old curiosities instead of having these allusions and shifty organizations operating in the background. They could’ve just said that they’re dead and gone. That’s it. But it’s not the case. There are still a lot of loose ends regarding that part of the lore. Lazarus is probably still out there, still harboring his hatred for “countless generations”. Whatever happened to Saul D’ Alessio? What happened to Livia and the Scepter of Orr? Why are there still ghosts of the old factions lingering in key areas throughout Tyria?

Dragons and plant people are cool and all, but I think it’s the complicated politics that makes the lore of this game truly interesting. Adds more flavor to the standard “big bad dragons out to get us all” formula that is found in fantasy. Plus we have been getting sidequests related to the White Mantle. In Harathi Hinterlands, the Ruins of Holy Dementra houses the alleged “tomb” of Saul D’ Alessio and you get to fight the ghost of a loyal follower of Alessio there. It even employs an old mechanic in GW1: if you kneel in front of the statue, an emissary of Dwayna will appear and tell you about the tomb and the ghost that haunts there. And as mentioned by Xeno in his post, you can trigger an event in Aurora’s Remains that reenacts the conflict between the Demagogue and some members of the Shining Blade. If you pay close attention to some of the letters in bandit-related heart quests, the White Mantle are mentioned once in a while. But the point is, why allude to all these present-day activities if they’re not gonna touch upon it anymore?

Good job making those connections.

My thoughts on Heal-o-Tron are that they possibly want him to repair/enhance the Watchworks? They’re machines that were based on something beyond human engineering, so perhaps they want to use the golem to help build their mechanical army again.

Cenex.4089:

Also, the White Mantle and Bandit emblems look fairly similar. And considering the high bandit density in Brisban, I can definitely see the connection there.

Just so you know, In one of the human Personal Story lines you'll find that (at least some) bandits are being guided by the White Mantle. To quote the wiki: 'In modern times, they are behind many of the bandit attacks in attempts to bring down Queen Jennah and the Krytan government. Most are unaware that they are still operating, considering them a myth told on Mad King's Day.'

I really like this theory and hope this is the case, because as you guys said, the political intrigues and all make it so much more interesting.

But do keep in mind that ArenaNet leaves a LOT of these kinds of hints in the game for further use and possible expansion content. SO the links laid down may not provide enough closure for this to be 100 per cent true. But the connections to the Living World are there as you pointed out! We can still hope for it

The original Guild Wars elements hasn’t been completely abandoned, so it’s not extremely super far fetched. Like others have said, there are minor ties to some lore from the original game. The question is whether or not ANet will expand on those tiny references to something more main focused. The issue of the White Mantle is that it’s a bit more human centered. With the living story, we’ve covered grounds for almost every major race in Tyria.

Though don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see it explored regardless of that fact. As a person who didn’t play much of the original, they’re largely mysterious to me. And I’d still love to kick Caudecus (cause we know he’s definitely up to no good) from his high horse.

This post just made me think about how there are so many loose ends in the (personal (dungeons included) and living) story that I’d love to see explored more. ANet has so much they can pursue story wise, but whether or not we’ll get to see all of it remains unanswered.

Anet is no stranger to sprinkling a bunch of red herrings everywhere in their story. I really like that they keep these options open actually. Plus it gives the world even more flavor.

But, one of the things that give us hope is the fact that they didn’t kill off Marjory.) plus during the marionette patch she brought up “E” which means she’s still invested in the events of “The Last Straw”. So here’s to hoping we touch on it in the near future and that it intersects with one of the many opportunities for White Mantle interaction.

I’d be surprised if the White Mantle was brought up anytime soon to be honest. Arena.net has made it clear they’re hesitant to embrace Human Stories because the original game was all human story. The Living World is a good example of this, as we see a lot of the other races and their stories and villains getting screentime. The only human story element touched on was the Queen’s Jubilee which was ultimately a passing thing that didn’t have much impact on the story itself. Kasmeer and Marjory are major characters who are humans, but being human doesn’t actually add to the story for them.

I mean, you could substitute them for two of any other race and the story would progress the same way. Considering the next Living Story Season seems poised to delve into Mordremoth, we’ll likely see more of the Sylvari and the Asura, as they’ll be in direct danger from it.

Yeah, devs have said to leave plenty of hooks for future devs to develop further on, that’s why it’s so hard to predict which way they’re going.

Has nobody played the human adopted storyline? You deal with the remnants of the white mantle during it. Also possibly one of the best parts of the PS.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

Has nobody played the human adopted storyline? You deal with the remnants of the white mantle during it. Also possibly one of the best parts of the PS.

I’m sure a lot of people have.
I, myself, chose the Noble/Unknown Parents background for my main which resulted in a lot of throwbacks during the first part of my Personal Storyline (prior to playing, I had no clue it would be touching on that). Come to think of it, even the later parts (Priory and the Pact) had some form of throwback to GW1 by way of pure luck that I picked the ‘right’ choices.

Uhm. That is like, literally what he said in his post.

Xenophanes.8360:

Politics and Banditry

The White Bandits

Now where is the White Mantle in all of this? Whatever happened to them anyways? In a very specific part of the human personal story, this becomes apparent.

Family Reunion: Unknown Parents

In the next chapter of the human personal story, if you had picked Unknown Parents as one of your defining characteristics. You would get to experience bandits trying to assassinate you. These bandits are what the Shining Blade reveal to be the remnants of the White Mantle who are trying to wrest power in Divinity’s Reach. They try to assassinate you because your parents were apparently spies for the throne.

We can conclude from this then that the bandits, though probably with personal motives, are within the same realm as the White Mantle. Both parties share the same desire to wrest power from the throne. This establishes a connection between the bandit gangs and the remnants of the White Mantle. With that said, would it be far off from the truth to say that White Mantle remnants, working for the same goals as the said bandits, could have ties with the Ministry? Caudecus being the central figure of suspicion here, it could be a possibility that the two are connected.

Vexander.9850:

I’d be surprised if the White Mantle was brought up anytime soon to be honest. Arena.net has made it clear they’re hesitant to embrace Human Stories because the original game was all human story. The Living World is a good example of this, as we see a lot of the other races and their stories and villains getting screentime. The only human story element touched on was the Queen’s Jubilee which was ultimately a passing thing that didn’t have much impact on the story itself. Kasmeer and Marjory are major characters who are humans, but being human doesn’t actually add to the story for them.

I mean, you could substitute them for two of any other race and the story would progress the same way. Considering the next Living Story Season seems poised to delve into Mordremoth, we’ll likely see more of the Sylvari and the Asura, as they’ll be in direct danger from it.

(Honestly curious) May I know when/where the devs explicitly mentioned that they’re holding back on the human stories? As for Marjory and Kasmeer, it’s really less about them being human but more the fact that they’re conveniently running a Detective Agency during the time the LS events were happening, as well as having the benefactor, E, who is implied to be looking out for everyone.

And Mordremoth, I think right now, it’s still too early to conclude that it really is him that we’re gonna be fighting next LS. Sure, we got to glimpse him stirring, but that’s it. No other implications of characters in-game being aware that another dragon is beginning to wake up. There are NPCs who are implied to be aware of its existence, but this doesn’t necessarily mean they are aware of it awakening already. And even if he does wake up, a full-on fight seems unlikely. Sure, we might get another rescue/evacuation mission from another central area but that’s only if we do get a fully awakened Mordremoth. With so many loose ends and possible red herrings, it’s really hard to pin down at the moment. I’m really looking forward to the epilogue that’s gonna be released next week, as I think that’ll at least narrow down the possible paths the Living Story is gonna be taking.

Jelle.4623:

Yeah, devs have said to leave plenty of hooks for future devs to develop further on, that’s why it’s so hard to predict which way they’re going.

And I think that’s the very reason why it’s so much fun speculating about the direction of this game’s story. :)

SkeletalHorses.2108:

I’m really looking forward to the epilogue that’s gonna be released next week, as I think that’ll at least narrow down the possible paths the Living Story is gonna be taking.

I have been hoping this for about a year now.

Added a more concise summary to the top of the first post in favor of people who might not have enough time to read through the entire post but would still like to engage in the discussion.

I wouldn’t mind plant-zombie-white mantle bandits. I wonder how that would work. That and charr, asura, norn, centaur and a few other races. Maybe even plant-zombie mursaat , that would be awesome!!! Maybe we could finally discover some mursaat ruins in Southsun Cove that lead to the unexplored parts of the Maguumas .

It’s too bad we had to kill Zhaitan. A plants v. Zombie mini game might be kind of fun!

Is it bad that I’m only checking this thread (and most others) just to see how Konig will blow it to smithereens?

Gnat.9405:

Is it bad that I’m only checking this thread (and most others) just to see how Konig will blow it to smithereens?

Not bad really. I’m sure everyone has their own way of enjoying the forums. Our way is discussion and speculation.

We would totally enjoy Konig’s input actually!

It’s been recently brought to our attention that Konig had a theory about the White Mantle on guildwars2guru back in 2012.

SkeletalHorses actually stumbled upon it while looking for more White Mantle information, and it interestingly intersects with a bunch of our supporting ideas. It’s amazingly called return of the white mantle. 8D

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/37501-return-of-the-white-mantle-a-detailed-analysis-of-the-white-mantle-in-gw2/

So we’d really like to know his thoughts on our theory.

Antara.3189:

Very interesting. It’s possible we could see a White Mantle/Mordremoth Hybrid appear in the future (Similiar to Svanir). We have to see how the corruption influences it’s victims.

As of late the only thing we have to look at was Scarlet, and we killed her before finding out what exactly motivated her, though it definitely was hinted that Mordremoth was the source of her madness.

Maybe the White Mantle will try to become a stronger force with the use of Mordremoth to overthrow Kryta, only to later be consumed by the dragon.

One thing to note though, In past events, the Mursaat never were the type to stick around during the dragons, and were noted to flee into the mists during the previous awakening. With the White Mantle faithfully following the Unseen Ones, I wonder how this would play out with a dragon in the mix.

Indeed, we’ve yet to see how Mordremoth’s corruption truly works to be able to make a few more good guesses. But, I think it’s highly unlikely for the Mordremoth and Mursaat storylines to intersect to that extent. As you’ve said, the Mursaat tend to be very evasive when it comes to the elder dragons—especially considering their numbers have been significantly reduced (unless, of course, they’ve somehow figured a way to reproduce again). A more plausible timeline, I think would be something like the White Mantle insidiously seizing power again in the Government (by way of the Ministry/bandit activity/moles), eventual return of the Mursaat, another battle with them, and then Mordremoth fully awakening afterwards (due to the amount of magic involved and such). Of course, this is all just speculation as, I’ve said previously, we still don’t know the full effect of Scarlet’s actions regarding the leylines.

It’s also rather interesting to note another “hook” regarding the politics in Kryta. If you take the time to walk around Divinity’s Reach (as well as the surrounding villages) and listen to various NPC dialogues, you’ll start noticing the increasing amount of resentment among the common people for the Queen, and the praise for Caudecus. Add to that the amount of bandit activity in the countryside except for Beetletun, and you’ll get a population that’s largely unhappy with the current rule. If Caudecus seizes power, then that gives the White Mantle a good foothold for their eventual return.

Also (and I warn you, this is crossing conspiracy nut territory. Please remember that this part is purely speculation now.),
I find it extremely suspicious how Countess Anise and the rest of the Shining Blade are being overly protective of the Queen Jennah. (ref: when you speak with Logan in “A Moment’s Peace” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Origins_of_Madness:_A_Moment's_Peace )

Add to the fact that she was a suspect for the murder of Minister Brios (see: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Line_of_Duty_%E2%80%93_The_Three_Military_Orders_of_Kryta) as well as the attitude she exhibited during the Queen’s Jubilee, it’s quite easy to see the villainous potential of her character. Of course, at this point, we can only speculate. On one hand, she’s probably aware of the connections of the Ministry to the White Mantle and she’s doing her job as the Master Exemplar to stop them, whatever the means may be.
Yet, on the other hand, she could be a mole, and that removing a ‘good’ member of the Ministry (remember that not all of them are with the White Mantle) could pave the way for more WM members to enter, or prolly Brios knows something that cost him his life. Xeno and I even joked about how maybe the woman being tortured by a minister in “The Last Straw” is the real queen and they’re just maintaining a clone/fake queen by means of Anise’s magic. But yeah, this part is all just speculating fun.

In many of the bandit camps, evidence of White Mantle involvement is openly displayed.

The pictures that are posted some posts ago.
The bandit sign is also very often slightly covered on the summit peak in fields of ruins.

Wiki exerpt…“The White Mantle retreated to the Maguuma Jungle, where they have thrived in secret, even without the guidance of their false gods, hoping to one day return.” We see a few of them hiding on the outskirts of Brisban, so if any new content leads deeper into Maguuma (maybe Magus Falls) looking for Mordremoth I wouldn’t be surprised to see more of the White Mantle.

Unknownhero.6745:

Wiki exerpt…“The White Mantle retreated to the Maguuma Jungle, where they have thrived in secret, even without the guidance of their false gods, hoping to one day return.” We see a few of them hiding on the outskirts of Brisban, so if any new content leads deeper into Maguuma (maybe Magus Falls) looking for Mordremoth I wouldn’t be surprised to see more of the White Mantle.

Haven’t check on the forum for a while.

Really happy to see all your thoughts on this. Really hoping on this as a possibility. So many little facts that are fun to put together into a speculative theory.

Here’s to hoping Marjory’s Investigations really do tangentially touch on the White Mantle. XD

Read it onthe train last night. I’ve got a character obsessed with the White Mantle. My belief is that Caudecus IS DEFINITELY White Mantle, and the bandits are funded and supported by the White Mantle to weaken, undermine, harass and just generally distract the throne.

Caudecus’s Mansion backs onto a rocky hilly range. In the Harathi Hinterlands you can access a system of caves which backs onto the mansion, called kittenattler Caverns (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/8/84/Harathi_Hinterlands_map.jpg) Those caves are RIFE with bandit activity and it contains a bandit lair. Then go a little further north, and you have the Ruins of Holy Demetra. And what’s contained in those ruins? The empty tomb of Saul D’Alessio, founder of the White Mantle. All backing onto Caudecus’ mansion.

Hmmm.

We also have a known White Mantle hideout in the hunting lodge in the Queen’s Forest, near Beetletun. The White Mantle ARE active, and have infiltrated the ministry via Caudecus. Could Caudecus be the offspring of Saul D’Alessio? Or … somehow has Saul achieved immortality (his tomb is empty) and IS minister Caudecus?

We know this about Saul:

“After defeating the Charr, the Unseen Ones turned on those who had moments earlier worshiped them as their gods and murdered them then disappeared. They took Saul, in whom they had imbued their most powerful magic, with them. Only a handful survived. Those who remained, who had been deemed most devoted, told the Krytans that Saul was killed by Charr during their retreat back over the Shiverpeak Mountains.

Saul has not been seen since. " (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Saul_D%27Alessio)

So where is he? And where are the Mursaat?

I can’t elaborate too much right now, as I’m on a smartphone, but I don’t think anyone mentioned this yet. The ghostly looking Root Behemoth has positively nothing to do with Mordremoth. It is a nod to the boss (and his minions) you needed to beat in GW Prophecies to gain access to Aurora Glade, and appeared in the same mission the other ghostly characters (the ghostly White Mantle and Shining Blade) are constantly recreating.

wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Henge_Guardian

MaesterTed.6571:

I can’t elaborate too much right now, as I’m on a smartphone, but I don’t think anyone mentioned this yet. The ghostly looking Root Behemoth has positively nothing to do with Mordremoth. It is a nod to the boss (and his minions) you needed to beat in GW Prophecies to gain access to Aurora Glade, and appeared in the same mission the other ghostly characters (the ghostly White Mantle and Shining Blade) are constantly recreating.

wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Henge_Guardian

I see. Very interesting. Thanks for clearing that up!

@MooCube:
It’s kinda amusing how even an in-game place name is censored here. But back to the topic. I’ve never done Caudecus’ Manor before so it’s interesting to see the connection of the place to the Caverns (I don’t know why I never bothered to check that part of the map before). It’s also a very strategic positioning because the normal entrances are in the Hinterlands, which makes it difficult for investigation. And it’s also interesting to note how Caudecus is the only minister who lives outside Divinity’s Reach (as far as I know). Though, right now, we can only speculate about Caudecus’ identity, as well as the whereabouts of Saul and Lazarus.

MaesterTed.6571:

I can’t elaborate too much right now, as I’m on a smartphone, but I don’t think anyone mentioned this yet. The ghostly looking Root Behemoth has positively nothing to do with Mordremoth. It is a nod to the boss (and his minions) you needed to beat in GW Prophecies to gain access to Aurora Glade, and appeared in the same mission the other ghostly characters (the ghostly White Mantle and Shining Blade) are constantly recreating.

wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Henge_Guardian

Awesome, thanks for clearing that up! 8D I can’t believe I didn’t think of that possibility. Really too bad though, but I’m glad that weird thing has a purpose.

SPOILERS FOR TODAY’S PATCH
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SPOILERS FOR TODAY’S PATCH
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While patching my Guild Wars 2 client tonight, SkeletalHorses brought a Reddit discussion to my attention!

This one in particular:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/20q90p/ohh_spoilers/

Can’t wait to log in myself and experience the conversation first hand!

Included is a picture of part of the conversation! Credit goes to Gragx of Reddit:

Yeah, this is one of the first times they mentioned human bandits in the Living Story, right? Since it’s black market, I’m thinking it could lead down two paths, possibly both being interrelated -

White Mantle supporting bandits and possibly this black-market, as per your theory,

or Consortium is back in the picture, or maybe even both organizations are connected?

IMO this was actually a very smooth tie-in that connects human interests, Destiny’s Edge 2.0, and possible dragon locations. I thought the interaction with Belinda also provided a very good grounding that the Delaqua family is indeed working-class, and that class divisions are still a dominating force in human culture – after all that lore-bending molten-nightmare-alliance stuff, it’s good to see the laws, dogmas, and group dynamics of the world are still informing the story.