Buff Thieves, make Stealth break on damage.

Buff Thieves, make Stealth break on damage.

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Posted by: Cush.4063

Cush.4063

There was a point in time last year I believe April/March where they were going to put a effective cooldown on stealth when you left it (reveal when you leave stealth regardless of attack) this would have been interesting to see implemented since it clears up some loose ends in their implementation.

They have put the revealed debuff in game. Its 4 seconds I believe.

But again I say. I wouldn’t mind a stealth nerf at all if they buffed the thief in a major way giving it more diversity with another mechanic to use. I main a D/D sPvP thief, I changed from D/P because it did feel too cheasy for me not needing a target to stealth while also laying down a blind field at the same time. But I’m tired if relying on the one move that gets me damage which is backstab. That’s all main handed dagger thieves rely on, getting that backstab. Do I think stealth is severely broken? Not really, maybe very slightly. I would agree that by missing or getting blocked or w/e it should unstealth you…….as long as we get some major changes to the class with diversity so I have more than one thing to rely on. People call me noob all the time in PvP when I go stealth and back stab them. What they don’t understand is that’s the only thing I can do to damage them until I get them under 50% health. If I had more options I would take them.

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Posted by: MIrra.3604

MIrra.3604

Title says it all. Stealth is a great mechanic in this game, but the fact that it is absolutely impossible to prevent or counter is ridiculous. Thieves rely on this skill a great lot which is fine, but in my opinion it’s a broken and cheesy mechanic. I think Thieves would be in a much better place if they didn’t rely so much on it and were compensated in other ways to make up for this.

Thoughts?

Each time I hit a necro, it prevent life force regeneration for X secs
Each time I hit a mesmer, a clone dies.
Each time I hit a warrior, it reduces adren
Each time I hit a ranger, a pet or spirit dies
Each time I hit an ele, it locks a random attunement for X secs
Each time I hit an engi, it prevents use of toolkit for X secs
and finally
Each time I hit a thief, it remove stealth

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Posted by: Swagginator.3246

Swagginator.3246

^ pure hate for thieves.

@ op . i agree on the part where stealth should be broken on blocks/evades/invuln and also makes sense. a block is felt for example…

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Posted by: ensoriki.5789

ensoriki.5789

There was a point in time last year I believe April/March where they were going to put a effective cooldown on stealth when you left it (reveal when you leave stealth regardless of attack) this would have been interesting to see implemented since it clears up some loose ends in their implementation.

They have put the revealed debuff in game. Its 4 seconds I believe.

But again I say. I wouldn’t mind a stealth nerf at all if they buffed the thief in a major way giving it more diversity with another mechanic to use. I main a D/D sPvP thief, I changed from D/P because it did feel too cheasy for me not needing a target to stealth while also laying down a blind field at the same time. But I’m tired if relying on the one move that gets me damage which is backstab. That’s all main handed dagger thieves rely on, getting that backstab. Do I think stealth is severely broken? Not really, maybe very slightly. I would agree that by missing or getting blocked or w/e it should unstealth you…….as long as we get some major changes to the class with diversity so I have more than one thing to rely on. People call me noob all the time in PvP when I go stealth and back stab them. What they don’t understand is that’s the only thing I can do to damage them until I get them under 50% health. If I had more options I would take them.

Reveal was originally 3s, they increased it to 4 instead of implementing reveal on leaving stealth.

The great forum duppy.

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Posted by: Empathetic Fighter.2065

Empathetic Fighter.2065

tbh i doubt that in deathmatch ppl would run thieves since they drop like flies

in any game i have played that had death match mode, you usually wanted to run bruisers or high CC dmg + support… i believe necros, engis, wars and guards would be the thing

You missed the point.

He doesn’t… If you wanna complain about balance overall you’re in the false forum part.

Read It Backwards [BooN]

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Posted by: Chicago Jack.5647

Chicago Jack.5647

In other words, you use it to kill people and then take their point […]

If a home defender cant hold their own weight against a thief, then they seriously need to reconsider playing that role.

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Posted by: Paulo.8459

Paulo.8459

Title says it all. Stealth is a great mechanic in this game, but the fact that it is absolutely impossible to prevent or counter is ridiculous. Thieves rely on this skill a great lot which is fine, but in my opinion it’s a broken and cheesy mechanic. I think Thieves would be in a much better place if they didn’t rely so much on it and were compensated in other ways to make up for this.

Thoughts?

Of all the “nerf thieves” threads the last days this is by far the worst suggestion.

And again the complaints are about the d/p weaponset. Going stealth is very difficult to counter (but possible). It’s just badly designed.
Asides from this set and the blinding powder utility (wich is perfectly fine due to its cooldown), your statement that stealth is “absolutely impossible to prevent or counter” is just wrong.
The thief stealths either trough BP+HS (wich i mentioned above) or through CnD. The latter is countered by dodge, blind, block, invulnerability and out of range. Counter the CnD and cou counter stealth by preventing it completely.

Even if the thief is already stealthed, there is counterplay. No direct/hard counters, but counterplay.

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Posted by: ensoriki.5789

ensoriki.5789

If I were to modify stealth.

Leaving stealth causes .5s of reveal. Failed attacks cause you to leave stealth.
Successful attacks apply 3s of reveal. If stealth didn’t end due to a successful attack, stealth attacks are still available for 1s or until a successful attack is applied.

- Black powder becomes a dark field

Eg. Thief with 2s stealth hits a guardian who blocks so the thief is revealed. The thief hasn’t successfully attacked so he can continue to try and land his stealth attack for the next second or until he hits the guardian but the guardian can see the thief attempting this.

~ CnD chaining prevented.
~ Stealth put in a workable condition since everyone has a dodge-roll.
~ Thief in prime position to be improved if other areas fall off
~ D/P and D/D become distinct enough for D/D to find a home for itself. D/P falls in line with other /P’s but would likely require improvements to stay relevent.

The great forum duppy.

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Posted by: The Primary.6371

The Primary.6371

Title says it all. Stealth is a great mechanic in this game, but the fact that it is absolutely impossible to prevent or counter is ridiculous. Thieves rely on this skill a great lot which is fine, but in my opinion it’s a broken and cheesy mechanic. I think Thieves would be in a much better place if they didn’t rely so much on it and were compensated in other ways to make up for this.

Thoughts?

This is not wow and your always welcome to go back to wow if your not happy with the way stealth works in gw2.

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Posted by: ATMAvatar.5749

ATMAvatar.5749

Each time I hit an ele, it locks a random attunement for X secs

Does dying count as locking attunements?

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Posted by: frans.8092

frans.8092

If I were to modify stealth.

Leaving stealth causes .5s of reveal. Failed attacks cause you to leave stealth.
Successful attacks apply 3s of reveal. If stealth didn’t end due to a successful attack, stealth attacks are still available for 1s or until a successful attack is applied.

Makes blind too strong, imo, nobody would be punished as badly for the easily applied blind as D/D because there is no means to get rid of it before stealth ends. If you want to reduce spam during stealth, make stealth attacks cost x initiative, and restore x initiative when hitting with that attack. Or make reveal restore the initiative, as it is, in your suggestion, always applied on a successful attack.

You will not be able to land a backstab when visible.

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Posted by: solrik.6028

solrik.6028

The only thing I want;
Remove stealth even if missed/evaded.
If that’s not enough, remove stealth if using a skill that can deal damage.

When I evade a backstab from a thief with 10s stealth I know that I need to burn more evades because his stealth won’t disappear for 10s or until he lands backstab.

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Posted by: Auesis.7301

Auesis.7301

Title says it all. Stealth is a great mechanic in this game, but the fact that it is absolutely impossible to prevent or counter is ridiculous. Thieves rely on this skill a great lot which is fine, but in my opinion it’s a broken and cheesy mechanic. I think Thieves would be in a much better place if they didn’t rely so much on it and were compensated in other ways to make up for this.

Thoughts?

Each time I hit a necro, it prevent life force regeneration for X secs
Each time I hit a mesmer, a clone dies.
Each time I hit a warrior, it reduces adren
Each time I hit a ranger, a pet or spirit dies
Each time I hit an ele, it locks a random attunement for X secs
Each time I hit an engi, it prevents use of toolkit for X secs
and finally
Each time I hit a thief, it remove stealth

>Implying Stealth is a Thief-exclusive profession mechanic.

Remove Stealth on block or evade, sure. But just the slightest tint of stray damage in a game with AoE completely covering combat zones, and with the fairly limited ways to enter Stealth, not to mention that this would also heavily damage Mesmer survivability and Engi utility? This is absolutely ridiculous. I can’t take the majority of this thread seriously. Why argue about this at all in an sPvP context? Not a single competitive build even goes 5 in to Shadow Arts.

I hope you have an extensive series of EXTREMELY coherent and well thought-out buffs to compensate for such a drastic ruination of the mechanic.

Gnome Child [Gc]
Resident Thief

(edited by Auesis.7301)

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Posted by: frans.8092

frans.8092

Title says it all. Stealth is a great mechanic in this game, but the fact that it is absolutely impossible to prevent or counter is ridiculous. Thieves rely on this skill a great lot which is fine, but in my opinion it’s a broken and cheesy mechanic. I think Thieves would be in a much better place if they didn’t rely so much on it and were compensated in other ways to make up for this.

Thoughts?

Each time I hit a necro, it prevent life force regeneration for X secs
Each time I hit a mesmer, a clone dies.
Each time I hit a warrior, it reduces adren
Each time I hit a ranger, a pet or spirit dies
Each time I hit an ele, it locks a random attunement for X secs
Each time I hit an engi, it prevents use of toolkit for X secs
and finally
Each time I hit a thief, it remove stealth

>Implying Stealth is a Thief-exclusive profession mechanic.

I think you missed the point of that post.

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Posted by: Auesis.7301

Auesis.7301

I think you missed the point of that post.

I did not. Regardless of what you are trying to argue, it is unhealthy and incorrect to associate Stealth exclusively to Thieves as a profession mechanic.

Gnome Child [Gc]
Resident Thief

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Posted by: Black Box.9312

Black Box.9312

lol…..aoe the blind field..

While you’re aoeing the blind field like a fool, the thief is already running behind you to backstab you again.

I mean bloody hell, Its a 600 Range Leap they use to get Stealth, do you honestly think that unless you instantly AOE that field that they will be standing in it?

Heartseeker is a 450 range leap, and if you were to have played a thief you would know that most of them actually aim their camera directly downward to reduce the leap range so that they can chain leaps through the smoke field. It’s not as hard to hit them with aoe as you might think.

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Posted by: Black Box.9312

Black Box.9312

I think you missed the point of that post.

I did not. Regardless of what you are trying to argue, it is unhealthy and incorrect to associate Stealth exclusively to Thieves as a profession mechanic.

Stealth attacks are a mechanic exclusive to thief, and are the primary source of damage for the majority of dagger mainhand builds. A dagger thief without stealth will hit about as hard as a wet noodle.

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Posted by: Nuorus.8415

Nuorus.8415

uh….what? in pvp stealth is huge disadvantage as you can’t hold points while stealthed…

wvw forums this way ->

This belongs to WvW forums as much as it does to ele/warrior/guardian/ranger/mesmer/engi/necro forums.

OP, it was said by ANET when the game was just hatched from the egg and the sky shined gold(release of the game), that the stealth “weakens” when damaged, but sadly it doesn’t do it. So it was on their mind at least. Hopefully what you ask happens. Some kind of counter play would be nice. I do know CC works pretty good but it’s exactly like fighting an invisible enemy.

Feel free to argue with me. You learn something every time and it develops your personality.

People seems using word “trolling” out of context way too often…

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Posted by: Thedenofsin.7340

Thedenofsin.7340

I believe there would be a significant amount of rework required to the thief profession if you make stealth break on damage.

What if you limited it to a handful of abilities that break stealth if they hit the target? Then restrict it to abilities that have a small area of attack, but do not necessarily require a target.

For example:

The following abilities, if they hit the target, will break stealth:

Elementalist: Lava Font, Lightning Touch
Mesmer: Blurred Frenzy, Mind Stab
Ranger: Stalker’s Strike, Hornet Sting

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Posted by: ensoriki.5789

ensoriki.5789

If I were to modify stealth.

Leaving stealth causes .5s of reveal. Failed attacks cause you to leave stealth.
Successful attacks apply 3s of reveal. If stealth didn’t end due to a successful attack, stealth attacks are still available for 1s or until a successful attack is applied.

Makes blind too strong, imo, nobody would be punished as badly for the easily applied blind as D/D because there is no means to get rid of it before stealth ends. If you want to reduce spam during stealth, make stealth attacks cost x initiative, and restore x initiative when hitting with that attack. Or make reveal restore the initiative, as it is, in your suggestion, always applied on a successful attack.

You will not be able to land a backstab when visible.

The suggestion does nothing to reduce spam as reducing spam isn’t considered.
If you’ve been in stealth 2 seconds than even if you leave in those 2s you have 1s to stealth attack which is the same as if you spammed 1 for 3s. If you don’t stealth attack at all than even after 3s you still have 1s to stealth attack which is an extension of current availability. I couldn’t care less about spam which is why you retain the availability to stealth attack. Which allows you to still attack until your blind/block dissipate for a second.
Yes backstab has positional requirements for maximum damage, other stealth attacks do not and as such it matters not whether visible they just want to land the blinking attack. For Backstab however, if your issue is block or a single aegis, given the frequency a backstab can be used at when it doesn’t hit, you’ll very likely still get the back bonus unless they dodged.

Also given that most blinds will require a target and you are untargetable in stealth, it is a minor concern.

The great forum duppy.

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Posted by: Turtle Dragon.9241

Turtle Dragon.9241

To say that there is no counter play to stealth/ prevention is ridiculous.

Here is the basic scenario of a thief stealthing:

1) Black powder + heartseeker leap

2) Shadow refuge

You can prevent the first by stunning/dazing them before they leap, and you can prevent the latter by using a pull/knockback while they are sitting in it.

There are also plenty of things you can do while they are stealth to prevent a burst – AOE blinds, blocks, invulns, anticipation dodging + positioning.

I just hate when people say there is no counter to stealth…it’s a l2p issue. You cannot stealth forever, and most of it is only 3 seconds. Beating stealth is more of a mindset than a hit-this-button to beat it mechanic.

If you are talking about mesmers which have instant stealth, then yes it is a little more problematic, but if you are quick with targeting and knowing how to find the real mesmer…it’s not much of a problem.

I agree with you that there are many ways to “prevent” Stealth and that is a l2p for many players. However, the problem arises when the Thief is already in Stealth. Everything you said is to “prevent” them from getting there, nothing about if they are already there.

There are not many counters to an already Stealthed Thief, and they are coming in with Backstab. Even knowing this, you might want to defend in some ways.
By Blocking? They just Backstab again and again until you run out of Blocks. Backstab does not cost them Initiative and is highly spammable until it lands.
By Dodging? They do not come out of Stealth from a missed attack either. Moreover, it is very difficult to dodge something you cannot see unless you are lucky.
By dropping CC around you? Then the Thief just runs out of your range, wait for his Initiative to regen, and come back already Stealthed while your CC is on cooldown. Most AoE CC have 40+ recharge. Full Initiative takes about 12 seconds to recharge.

Hence “prevention” is not exactly a “counter” to Stealth, although it helps.
You can eat healthy to help “prevent” cancer, but if you already have cancer, you are not curing(countering) it just by starting to eat healthy. See the difference.
A counter is something that can get you out of the situation and make you break even, or reverse the situation in your favor.

There needs to be a hard counter to already Stealthed Thieves, not just a way to prevent them from entering Stealth. There are multiple suggestions for that:

1. Blocking removes Stealth but does not apply Revealed on the Thief. That way you can match a Thief’s skills 1 for 1(Thief can use a second skill to Stealth again but you can also use a second skill to Block again and so on). This is a situation where you break even. It does not prevent the Thief from Stealthing again, and the Thief can remain in Stealth provided they do not attempt an attack that will be blocked.

2. Dodging the Thief removes Stealth. Since you cannot see the Thief, you are gambling half of your dodge bar here. This will make Thieves more wary of when to press their attack(including making them waste Stealthed time to make sure they land the attack). Rewards good Thieves who land their attacks. Rewards good players who dodged correctly when they predict the invisible Thief will attack.

3. CC skills remove Stealth. Too often, Thieves use Stealth and starts running away to reset the fight. If the opponent predicts where the Thief is going(predicting correctly = good play), and drops Line of Warding or Static Field there to stun/knockdown the Thief successfully, that should reward the opponent by Revealing the Thief. I do not like this one as much though as skills like “Into the Void” pull everything in sight. Though I would say it is the Thief’s duty to dodge “Into the Void” correctly as well.

Any of these would be somewhat of a “counter” to Stealth.

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Posted by: Rym.1469

Rym.1469

Giving Thieves more blocks e.g. via off hand sword on respective cooldowns would be a good way. Blocks can be broken, some skills are unblockable, some abilities give unblockable attacks (e.g. Long forgotten Signet of Might for Warriors). Adding quick, 1-2 second blocks would be better than giving more evade spam.
Thief could fight classes like Warrior much better, Warriors could consider bringing SoM, Thief wouldn’t rely that much on stealth and wild porting across the map.

[rude]Antagonistka – Revenant, EU.
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144

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Posted by: Burnfall.9573

Burnfall.9573

Buffing thieves health pool and un-buffing their damages+stealths is the better solution.

Common Sense > Reality

Although re-designing thief class altogether and getting rid of all “balance” theatrics and dramas, would be much better solution, but after 1 year+7 months of constant “nerfs” , i don’t see that ever happening.

Advocate of Justice, Liberty and Truth

(edited by Burnfall.9573)

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Posted by: RyuDragnier.9476

RyuDragnier.9476

Stealth breaking damage wouldn’t work well with how the game plays.
Channeled skills, point size aoes, the after-stealth tracking, would just be very messy.
Even CC break would feel off with how GW2 plays due to all the CC that literally or practically requires a target to function.

There was a point in time last year I believe April/March where they were going to put a effective cooldown on stealth when you left it (reveal when you leave stealth regardless of attack) this would have been interesting to see implemented since it clears up some loose ends in their implementation.

Even then As far as stealth goes the situations of annoyance(?) are

- D/P’s ease of access to stealth relative to /D marginalizing D/D and /D off-hand
- Frequent application from a bunch of appliers making the tab-target gameplay of GW2 all too visible (Stealth Mesmer, Blinding powder + refuge utils thieves)
- CnD chaining with Srejuvenation.

Stealth isn’t weak in conquest but it directly goes against the primary objective so over abundance of it becomes counter-productive and lets you get capped on even when playing a more defensive thief. So Stealth does mellow out in Spvp and isn’t that big a deal.

What about WvW, where such negatives are non-existent, and the thief has more power due to being able to equip all those amazing PvE accessories and whatnot? That’s where most of the complaints about stealth come from. You know all those sPvP nerfs thieves got? None exist in WvW, which is why you see all these complaints pop up.

If I were to modify stealth.

Leaving stealth causes .5s of reveal. Failed attacks cause you to leave stealth.
Successful attacks apply 3s of reveal. If stealth didn’t end due to a successful attack, stealth attacks are still available for 1s or until a successful attack is applied.

- Black powder becomes a dark field

Eg. Thief with 2s stealth hits a guardian who blocks so the thief is revealed. The thief hasn’t successfully attacked so he can continue to try and land his stealth attack for the next second or until he hits the guardian but the guardian can see the thief attempting this.

~ CnD chaining prevented.
~ Stealth put in a workable condition since everyone has a dodge-roll.
~ Thief in prime position to be improved if other areas fall off
~ D/P and D/D become distinct enough for D/D to find a home for itself. D/P falls in line with other /P’s but would likely require improvements to stay relevent.

This idea…I partially like it.

[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald

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Posted by: Shinjo.6092

Shinjo.6092

The problem is that there is quite a bit of setup before a backstab can happen. When I see aegis up, I usually just auto attack to get rid of it first. But I can’t do that when I’m in stealth since it would reveal me. When I see people block, I usually just wait it out until the animation finishes. But I can’t do that when I’m in stealth since it only last 3 seconds. And considering the fact that backstab is more or less the only real source of damage on mainhand dagger builds, you can essentially shut down the entire dagger thief class just by having aegis up. Since aegis is so easy to come by (it’s automatically put up for guardians and PU mesmers), dagger thieves will never be able to kill those classes ever again.

If we do get revealed by blocks, perhaps it would be fair to make cnd unblockable? That would ease the requirements of setting up a stealth state, time gated, positional required single attack that mainhand dagger thieves have for damage.

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Posted by: hooma.9642

hooma.9642

…Since aegis is so easy to come by (it’s automatically put up for guardians and PU mesmers), dagger thieves will never be able to kill those classes ever again.

If we do get revealed by blocks, perhaps it would be fair to make cnd unblockable? That would ease the requirements of setting up a stealth state, time gated, positional required single attack that mainhand dagger thieves have for damage.

good joke.. aegis easy to get.. yeah u wanna tell me u can only stealth + backstab all 40 secs?

and now i want to tell u a secret.. backstab does avg less dmg then autoattack.. so no. backstab is not the only dmgsource for mainhand dagger. the combined coeff from all aa is 2.26 thats 0.14 less than backstab does if hit from back. but unless aa u can only land backstab all 3 or 4 secs if u are a machine and enemy isnt dodging. in that time u have done 2 rotations on aa. then u need to consider stealthsrc (cnd, bp+hs, …) whats also eats time and doesnt cut even remotly on the efficiency of aa. and dont forget the poison on aa and endurance.

so if u need backstab to kill a guard u should stop playing thief. since aa is much stronger against bunker. esp the poision that has double the duration than 1 rotation needs and cuts healing of bunkers by 33%.

backstab is only strong through surprise and while its negates the mainsrc of active defense (dodge) by making it a gamble and thats against the mainphilosophie of the combatsystem.

(edited by hooma.9642)

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

uh….what? in pvp stealth is huge disadvantage as you can’t hold points while stealthed…

wvw forums this way ->

This belongs to WvW forums as much as it does to ele/warrior/guardian/ranger/mesmer/engi/necro forums.

OP, it was said by ANET when the game was just hatched from the egg and the sky shined gold(release of the game), that the stealth “weakens” when damaged, but sadly it doesn’t do it. So it was on their mind at least. Hopefully what you ask happens. Some kind of counter play would be nice. I do know CC works pretty good but it’s exactly like fighting an invisible enemy.

he posted this thread on pvp forums originally fyi

there is so much crying going on about stealth yet majority of ppl play warriors….awkward

once again, if you gonna nerf steath in any way, the class will need some buffs somewhere else which will simply result in everyone playing s/x… i would rather deal with stealth thieves than perma evade

you guys don’t know what kind of horror you are asking for

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

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Posted by: frans.8092

frans.8092

Yes backstab has positional requirements for maximum damage, other stealth attacks do not and as such it matters not whether visible they just want to land the blinking attack.

Incorrect, Tactical Strike has the dame requirement as Backstab

For Backstab however, if your issue is block or a single aegis, given the frequency a backstab can be used at when it doesn’t hit, you’ll very likely still get the back bonus unless they dodged.

Thief will never hit a backstab while visible, has nothing to do with technical requirements but simply because people only have to turn towards the thief, which is pretty easy when the thief is visible.

Also given that most blinds will require a target and you are untargetable in stealth, it is a minor concern.

No, there are plenty of blinds – possibly most – that are (PB)AoE or applied without target.

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Posted by: Black Box.9312

Black Box.9312

You know all those sPvP nerfs thieves got? None exist in WvW, which is why you see all these complaints pop up.

The only recent nerfs I can think of to thief are the reduction in vigor uptime, changes to infusion of shadow, and cast time and removal of the stun break for infiltrator’s return; all of which affect WvW players just as much as sPvP players.

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Posted by: Thoth Divine.8642

Thoth Divine.8642

I haven’t replied much because this topic was moved from sPvP forum (where it was originally created) to this one and the responses have been pretty overwhelming. So far I’m quite glad to have spawned such discussion and I think there have been some great ideas so far. I stay with my original thought that making Stealth break on damage while compensating in other areas esp. for Thieves would be the best for the game. It would still keep a great use, although definitely more situational. However, I admit it’s unlikely to happen and would be difficult to implement at this stage of the game

Nevertheless, there definitely should be some kind of counter to it other than blind AoE, and blocked/missed/evaded attacks need to reveal the stealthed player.

Blessed Curse – Symbolic DH
Thoth Divine – Power Necro
I Hope You Die – Burst Berserker

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Posted by: RyuDragnier.9476

RyuDragnier.9476

You know all those sPvP nerfs thieves got? None exist in WvW, which is why you see all these complaints pop up.

The only recent nerfs I can think of to thief are the reduction in vigor uptime, changes to infusion of shadow, and cast time and removal of the stun break for infiltrator’s return; all of which affect WvW players just as much as sPvP players.

Backstab and several other moves have gotten some pretty hefty nerfs in sPvP. Not sure on the amount, but I think Backstab got nerfed by maybe 20% in sPvP some odd months back.

[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald

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Posted by: RoyalPredator.9163

RoyalPredator.9163

+1 on break stealth when taking dmg.
That would be a fair update.

Game Designer || iREVOLUTION.Design \\
“A man chooses; a slave obeys.” | “Want HardMode? Play Ranger!”

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

+1 on break stealth when taking dmg.
That would be a fair update.

basically forcing every thief to play s/x…. how about we force every class into one weapon set and delete every other? that would be fair update

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

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Posted by: Kaizer.7135

Kaizer.7135

If I were to modify stealth.

Failed attacks cause you to leave stealth.

Hell no, this would kill Thieves for a lot of people I know since we play with a constant 250+ms ping. We can literally be right behind someone and have our backstabs miss.

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Posted by: DuranArgith.1354

DuranArgith.1354

If I were to modify stealth.

Failed attacks cause you to leave stealth.

Hell no, this would kill Thieves for a lot of people I know since we play with a constant 250+ms ping. We can literally be right behind someone and have our backstabs miss.

Youre not the only people and profession that play with high ping you know.
Also, backstab does the bonus damage from the sides too.

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Posted by: Fade.7658

Fade.7658

Another thread by someone who can’t beat a thief, nor will take the time to learn.

There are literally dozens of these topics recently. Instead of starting a new thread on an old topic, try an existing one.

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Posted by: tom.7468

tom.7468

Because they shave 8% of healing signet thieves could use -8% stealth duration.

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Posted by: Thoth Divine.8642

Thoth Divine.8642

Another thread by someone who can’t beat a thief, nor will take the time to learn.

There are literally dozens of these topics recently. Instead of starting a new thread on an old topic, try an existing one.

You didn’t read the thread. I can beat Thieves 1v1 pretty often. I also seem to think you didn’t read the title since I said BUFF Thieves and change stealth. Thieves are not overpowered in my opinion – they shine in some areas and have their weak spots. Stealth, however, has no weak points nor any clear counterplay.

Blessed Curse – Symbolic DH
Thoth Divine – Power Necro
I Hope You Die – Burst Berserker

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Posted by: caveman.5840

caveman.5840

idk i think if there was much more counter play to stealth thieves would be dropping like flys like 90 % more often and u just would not want to play thief at all because in group u would get hit with sooo many counters
if u get hit with revealed now. it can basically mean your death as a thief

i do think when we get the -10% damage from ferocity it will hurt the thief the most
be nice if we got the stun breaker back on the sword. or some other survival.
with so much cc flying around

(edited by caveman.5840)

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Posted by: hackks.3687

hackks.3687

what exactly is countering Thieves at the moment?

Hackkz/Riggamaroll
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long

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Posted by: caveman.5840

caveman.5840

aoe/ large amounts of conditions
random swings /cc
the lucky revealed . a ranger can apply with (sick em) from there blah AI pets … but if they get it it can really mess u up.
skilled players/ organized teams

edit . i play to much wvw for starters!
the only thing i am asking for is some way to deal with the mass amounts of cc.

revealed is strong.
idk if u want to give it to every class.
but it would be nice if rangers had a better pet/AI .

don’t take the entire conversation off topic attacking one person
as if one persons opinion matters on here.
forum trolls r like pitbulls :P just attack because u found an opening
making people explain something in depth for almost no reason other than derail the conversation !
one persons slip up . making them explain them self on and on
these conversations go in circles .

instead of coming back with a logical reason to turn down there ideas
u attack and go for the jugular .
thats y there is so many threads on the same topic

(edited by caveman.5840)

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Posted by: hackks.3687

hackks.3687

aoe/ large amounts of conditions
random swings /cc
the lucky revealed . a ranger can apply with (sick em) from there blah AI pets … but if they get it it can really mess u up.
skilled players/ organized teams

that’s kind of like saying the sidewalk is OP because you forgot to tie your shoelaces and fell down and hit your head.

Hackkz/Riggamaroll
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long

(edited by hackks.3687)

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Posted by: Black Box.9312

Black Box.9312

Another thread by someone who can’t beat a thief, nor will take the time to learn.

There are literally dozens of these topics recently. Instead of starting a new thread on an old topic, try an existing one.

You didn’t read the thread. I can beat Thieves 1v1 pretty often. I also seem to think you didn’t read the title since I said BUFF Thieves and change stealth. Thieves are not overpowered in my opinion – they shine in some areas and have their weak spots. Stealth, however, has no weak points nor any clear counterplay.

Without a specific suggestion on how you intend for thieves to be compensated, this is basically just a cry for a nerf.

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Posted by: Chaosbroker.3860

Chaosbroker.3860

+1 on break stealth when taking dmg.
That would be a fair update.

Going to say no for a reason that’s fairly obvious when you think about it. This is the mechanic used primarily in other MMO’s where you are not able to attack without a current target, which forces the player to plan ahead and apply DoT’s before the expected re-stealth. Under the mechanics of GW2 where players can keep swinging their weapon at thin air, that would more or less render stealth a novelty rather than a tactical advantage.

Callo Merlose – Revenant
Envy – Fort Aspenwood
“Believe in yourself … because the rest of us think you’re an idiot”

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Posted by: RoyalPredator.9163

RoyalPredator.9163

Hell YES.
Brake Stealth after you take X% of your base health.
You could be still in stealth if you use it to plan ahead, not to exploit the game.

  • PvE, stealth is just an open exploit, except when the dumb AI is so smart that it still seeing you. But its just as a huge advantage as teleporting. Saves a lot of effort.
  • PvP, I don’t know, I hate spvp. Its full of happenings I can’t really explain (getting out of downeds when nearly dead but not rally, taking only 0 dmg for minutes, etc…)
  • WvW, its always a double or nothing deal with thieves. Some I just solo them with a broken ranger, or they pwn me within 2 seconds. Its so disgusting when I see my HP disappearing but no enemy visible.

Y’know, thieves not even getting out of stealth (client not loading in) because of the latencies. And how fair it is to spam with incredible criticals? Assassins was fair.
Thieves are just an OP joke for me.

To hell with their stealth finishing, how to defend that?

Game Designer || iREVOLUTION.Design \\
“A man chooses; a slave obeys.” | “Want HardMode? Play Ranger!”

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Posted by: Chaosbroker.3860

Chaosbroker.3860

To hell with their stealth finishing, how to defend that?

To start with … you don’t. Much the same with stability, blind, timed aegis, teleports and various invulnerabilities. Downed with no ally support is pretty much the same thing as dead anyway.

The problem with nerfing stealth is down to how heavily reliant a thief is on it to survive. That’s also ignoring the fact of other classes access to stealth and how they utilise it.

That’s not to say I find the current stealth system ideal, I just don’t see “reveal on damage taken” as a remotely fair method of countering it given the core mechanics of GW2 combat.

Callo Merlose – Revenant
Envy – Fort Aspenwood
“Believe in yourself … because the rest of us think you’re an idiot”

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

I’m just wondering how a player who mains a Necro/Guardian is starting a nerf thief thread.

I don’t play thief but I never have problems fighting them. In fact I find them pushovers. The REALLY OP thief builds are the evasion ones and perplex condi

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Posted by: Talek.6795

Talek.6795

i suggest to topic starter take some position in team ladder at least, or play as thief and take position as well, before he starts creating such useless topics on forums.

Talék

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Posted by: pza.8024

pza.8024

i main engi, and it’s most of the time super easy to win against thieves. i already lost hard to some thieves, but that’s due to me not beeing the best duelist.

BUT: the stealth mechanic is WAAAYYY to cheesy. like WAY WAY WAAAAY. people saying you can counter it: unless you have interrupts (and high skill to interrupt someone stealthing), there’s no counter to it. any AoE is either:
- too weak to kill the thief (or else you would use it even if he’s not stealthed)
- strong enough to kill, but then your target didn’t need stealth and you would have used the skill anyway, not altering your gameplay at all.

a real counter would be something that would work ONLY if the target is stealthed, like an attack that adds REVEALED to your target, or an attack that deals extra damage or conditions to stealthed enemies. this is the definiton of counterplay.

so whenever a thief stealthed, he should really think twice, because it may happen that someone COUNTERS this, leaving him weaker than he would be if he didn’t use stealth.

of COURSE the play without stealth should then be buffed. thieves should be able make much more use of their real class mechanic: STEAL.

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

The above post doesn’t make much sense

You say thieves are way easy to kill then go on a rant about stealth and wanting nerf it with reveal attacks

Yet offer zero ideas to buff up the free kills you just created.

Thieves are fine as is people. Leave it alone