Guild Wars 2

I got bored so I made a formula. I think this is right.

d is direct damage
p is crit chance
P is crit damage
t is trait line crit damage

d=1+p(P+.5+t)

I fished out the numbers for a 0/30/0/0/0 Elementalist in full Celestial and it gave me
p=37.24%
P=63% (assuming that the crit damage from trait lines isn’t being reduced)
t=30%

So a current elementalist’s damage is

d=1+.3724(.63+.5+.3)=1.532532

Now we need to figure out how much Ferocity it takes to make 1% crit. It’s pretty difficult to be certain of what exactly this is, but let’s assume that it’s 21, just to be neat with Precision.

42+42+21+16+47+16+31+16+54+22+43+43+38+38=469 of each stat on a full set of Celestial Ascended gear (give or take a few, that 22 is the back piece, and I can’t remember offhand how much a celestial backpiece gives). Thus, we have 469 Ferocity.

469/21=22.3 recurring. There’s our P. Let’s run that through and compare

d=1+.3724(.223+.5+.3)=1.3809652

1.3809652/1.532532=0.90110040116

Conclusion: You lose about 10% of your direct damage in full Celestial gear.

Let’s run a Berserker through the formula, with the same build.

p=53.76%
P=71%
t=30%

d=1+.5376(.71+.5+.3)=1.811776

How much precision is on their gear, so we know how much Ferocity they have?

67+67+34+25+76+25+50+25+85+35+68+68+60+60=745

745/21=35.47

d=1+.5376(.3547+.5+.3)=1.62076672

1.62076672/1.811776=0.8945734572

Conclusion: You lose about 10.5% of your direct damage in full Berserker’s gear.

Super Conclusion: Because ANet said that Berserker DPS will drop by 10%, I am clearly completely correct. However I am probably wrong because I do not know how to math very good. If I made any mistakes, please feel free to let me know.

Your math is probably correct. Now ask yourself: is celestial in a state where a 10% damage reduction should be applied?

I’d say: no.

ThiBash.5634:

Your math is probably correct. Now ask yourself: is celestial in a state where a 10% damage reduction should be applied?

I’d say: no.

10% direct damage reduction. There is no change to condition damage in the build, which Celestial builds accomodate comfortably.

Past that, I can’t really say. I don’t particularly care one way or the other. However, I don’t think that Celestial’s numbers as they are at the moment are healthy; some Celestial pieces have more Critical Damage than their Berserker’s counterparts, which is… Not very intuitive, to say the least.

Sarrs.4831:

ThiBash.5634:

Your math is probably correct. Now ask yourself: is celestial in a state where a 10% damage reduction should be applied?

I’d say: no.

10% direct damage reduction. There is no change to condition damage in the build, which Celestial builds accomodate comfortably.

Past that, I can’t really say. I don’t particularly care one way or the other. However, I don’t think that Celestial’s numbers as they are at the moment are healthy; some Celestial pieces have more Critical Damage than their Berserker’s counterparts, which is… Not very intuitive, to say the least.

changed with wupwup to match zzojia..(armors and weapons if i remember well)

I still can t understand how your calculatin works i ll check them

Sarrs.4831:

ThiBash.5634:

Your math is probably correct. Now ask yourself: is celestial in a state where a 10% damage reduction should be applied?

I’d say: no.

10% direct damage reduction. There is no change to condition damage in the build, which Celestial builds accomodate comfortably.

Past that, I can’t really say. I don’t particularly care one way or the other. However, I don’t think that Celestial’s numbers as they are at the moment are healthy; some Celestial pieces have more Critical Damage than their Berserker’s counterparts, which is… Not very intuitive, to say the least.

Higher Crit damage, but overall less damage at a piece of armor for that slot.

Sarrs.4831:

10% direct damage reduction. There is no change to condition damage in the build, which Celestial builds accomodate comfortably.

The amount of critical damage per piece is reduced by more than berserker.

What part of that is so hard to understand? It’s not that we get a damage nerf. I’m fine with that. The problem is that the critical damage from celestial gets nerfed relatively more than berserker’s critical damage.

For example, take accesories. Berserker gets 60 Ferocity for 7% critical damage. Celestial gets 38 Ferocity for 5% critical damage.

60/7=8.57 points per 1% critical damage.
38/5=7.6 points per 1% critical damage.

Also, it seems that we now have still a week or two to convince Anet to take a look at this. Let’s make it count people.

ThiBash.5634:

The amount of critical damage per piece is reduced by more than berserker.

Yeah. Because Celestial gear has an utterly huge amount of crit damage- It has more than berserker in some places.

What part of that is so hard to understand? It’s not that we get a damage nerf. I’m fine with that. The problem is that the critical damage from celestial gets nerfed relatively more than berserker’s critical damage.

Yeah, and your overall damage doesn’t get nerfed more than a Zerker. It only gets nerfed nearly as much as a Zerker if you’re not using conditions at all- In which case you bought the wrong armor set.

Also, it seems that we now have still a week or two to convince Anet to take a look at this. Let’s make it count people.

Why do you think ANet needs to be convinced to look at it? It’s a 154 (155 now) reply thread. They know the problem’s there.

^It does have more than zerker in some locations, but it has far less than zerker where it counts – trinkets. Overall, a full set of Celestial has considerably less crit damage than a full set of zerker – which it shouldn’t.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

^It does have more than zerker in some locations, but it has far less than zerker where it counts – trinkets. Overall, a full set of Celestial has considerably less crit damage than a full set of zerker – which it shouldn’t.

Why should Celestial have identical crit damage to Zerker? It’s not the ‘crit damage’ set. It’s the ‘little bit of everything’ set.

Sarrs.4831:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

^It does have more than zerker in some locations, but it has far less than zerker where it counts – trinkets. Overall, a full set of Celestial has considerably less crit damage than a full set of zerker – which it shouldn’t.

Why should Celestial have identical crit damage to Zerker? It’s not the ‘crit damage’ set. It’s the ‘little bit of everything’ set.

For balance reasons. The set is already of questionable use at best and you honestly want to give players even less of a reason to use it?

If it’s getting a crit damage nerf, it had best come with a stat spread buff.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

For balance reasons. The set is already of questionable use at best and you honestly want to give players even less of a reason to use it?

If it’s getting a crit damage nerf, it had best come with a stat spread buff.

“Even less of a reason to use it”? There are two reasons to use it now:

1. Because you’re a class/spec that can benefit from the entire lineup of stats (ele/engi), in which case, it won’t change for you. You will still get the benefits of having more base stats than any other spread in the game. The crit damage nerf accounts for 10% of your direct damage, if you’re in full Ascended Celestial. You still have unnerfed conditions to support your damage and you still have outlast that freshly-nerfed direct-damage builds don’t have.

2. You’re putting Celestial pieces into specific slots to push your crit damage higher, and because the itemisation budget is out of whack in these slots, losing the other stats doesn’t really bother you. If you did this, you’re getting balanced, because exploiting the crit damage was never intended and you’re kind of insane if you expected to be able to ride that gravy train forever.

Also, something I wonder; Valkyrie and Assassin’s are both fairly unpopular compared to Berserker’s, yet they get hit harder by the Ferocity change. Why isn’t anyone coming to ask that they get changed?

Sarrs.4831:

ThiBash.5634:

The amount of critical damage per piece is reduced by more than berserker.

Yeah. Because Celestial gear has an utterly huge amount of crit damage- It has more than berserker in some places.

What part of that is so hard to understand? It’s not that we get a damage nerf. I’m fine with that. The problem is that the critical damage from celestial gets nerfed relatively more than berserker’s critical damage.

Yeah, and your overall damage doesn’t get nerfed more than a Zerker. It only gets nerfed nearly as much as a Zerker if you’re not using conditions at all- In which case you bought the wrong armor set.

Also, it seems that we now have still a week or two to convince Anet to take a look at this. Let’s make it count people.

Why do you think ANet needs to be convinced to look at it? It’s a 154 (155 now) reply thread. They know the problem’s there.

Although some Celestial has higher amount of crit-damage, but it provides a lot less power comparing to berserker gear. Crit-damge only provide good damage when power and percison are high enough. Full berserker ascended set provide 1087 power and 745 percision but celestial only provide 469 power and percision. It means the damage ouptut is actually is very low compare to berserker. If Anet nerf our crit-dmg, our low damage become much more worse. Below is some of my calculation.

My calculation is done to elementalist d/d.

According to GW2W,
Base Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

Dagger Weapon Strength range from 970-1030. The average is 1000.
A 80 lv character has 916 power
For simplicity, assume skill-specific coefficient = 1, target’s armor = 2500 and no traits.

Berserker & Solider Base Dmg = 1000 * (916+1087)/2500 = 801
Celestial Base Dmg = 1000 * (916+469)/2500 = 554
Knight Base Dmg = 1000 * (1661)/2500 = 664.4

d is Average damage
p is crit chance
P is crit damage
d= BaseDmg*[1+p(P+0.5)]

Beserker Avg damage = 801 [1+0.39(0.71+0.5)] = 1179
Celestial Avg damage = 554[1+0.26(0.61+0.5)] = 714
Knight Avg damage = 664.4*[1+0.39(0.5)] = 794
Solider Avg damage = 801*[1+0.04(0.5)] = 817

Assume 1% Crit dmg = 21 Ferocity
Celestial Crit dmg = 469/21=22.3%
Beserker Crit dmg = 745/21=35.47%

New Beserker Avg damage = 801 [1+0.39(0.355+0.5)] = 1068.1
New Celestial Avg damage = 554[1+0.26(0.223+0.5)] = 658.1

Beserker Percentage loss = 1 – (1068.1/1179) = 9.41%
Celestial Percentage loss = 1 – (658.1/714) = 7.84%

The Celestial Average damage is already the lowest, if crit dmg is also nerfed in celestial, Celestial is just a joke. If i don’t do the calculation, i can’t beleive solider gear even do more damage than Celestial gear.

At last, this is my first post in this forum. I am so worried about how they will nerf celestial. I spend around 1k gold to get the ascended armor, including t3 cultural skin and divinity rune. And Anet just punish the wrong person

Anet, please say something about this issue.

Anthonysko.5204:

Although some Celestial has higher amount of crit-damage, but it provides a lot less power comparing to berserker gear. Crit-damge only provide good damage when power and percison are high enough. Full berserker ascended set provide 1087 power and 745 percision but celestial only provide 469 power and percision. It means the damage ouptut is actually is very low compare to berserker. If Anet nerf our crit-dmg, our low damage become much more worse.

We have something of a logical inconsistency here. You assert that;
A. A celestial player’s benefit from crit damage is not high because of low power and precision.
B. A celestial player’s damage becomes “much much worse” because of the Ferocity change.

These two positions are contradictory. You don’t have enough power and precision to benefit from critical damage, but you do become “much much worse” when your critical damage is reduced?

According to GW2W,
Base Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

…

The Celestial Average damage is already the lowest, if crit dmg is also nerfed in celestial, Celestial is just a joke. If i don’t do the calculation, i can’t beleive solider gear even do more damage than Celestial gear.

My main concern here is assuming no traits. You note that you don’t have much Power or Precision with Celestial gear, that’s true, but the difference that those lines provide is not negligible.

Also these calculations measure direct damage. Celestial’s losses are softened by their secondary dependence on condition damage.

Sarrs.4831:

We have something of a logical inconsistency here. You assert that;
A. A celestial player’s benefit from crit damage is not high because of low power and precision.
B. A celestial player’s damage becomes “much much worse” because of the Ferocity change.

These two positions are contradictory. You don’t have enough power and precision to benefit from critical damage, but you do become “much much worse” when your critical damage is reduced?

The thing is, celestial’s dps is roughly equal to soldiers when taking everything into account, including condition damage. Seeing as how they’re both average stats (someone recently claimed celestial was the more offensive minded of the 2) it’d make sense they deal the same amount of damage. However that’s only due to celestial’s damage being compensated by a relatively high critical damage. Without it, it falls behind fairly quickly. So while it is true that the total damage difference won’t be as much, it does mean celestial will fall from ‘avarage dps’ to ‘bunker dps’. The tiny amount of extra condition damage it gets pales in comparison, even if ArenaNet does go forth with the armor/health change on PvE bosses. And that still doesn’t do anything for celestial in WvW, where enemy players have no such change.

So overall, wheter you agree or not, it’s a nerf. And it doesn’t need one.

ThiBash.5634:

You don’t get the issue, do you? The issue is not the nerf of critical damage. The issue is that if the stats scale linear, celestial will be nerfed harder than berserker. The reason for this is that if celestial gets ferocity equal to their other stats it gets less ferocity per point critical damage than beserker does. This means that it gets double nerfed.

It surprises me when in a MMO, people get an ability or item stated to do X, but it does Y instead. Later it gets changed to do X, and people cry rivers of tears. It’s both the most fascinating and the most disgusting element of MMO development that you have to wade through that.

“But I invested so much time!!1!!eleven!”. Well, good for you. You enjoyed playing the game, apparently. And? How is that point anyhow relevant?
“But my build no longer works QQ”. Congratulations on making it to your first MMO patch.
“But this is totally UNFAIR!”. Well, so is that you can currently “cheat” stat-weights by slotting Celestial for crit damage, when it was intended to be a “bit of everything, master of nothing”-gear. How many of you cried about that imbalance? Thought so.

(edit)
Also ThiBash, the way you talk about Celestial gear shows exactly why it needs a change to actually be all-stat gear. It’s not intended to be “bunker DPS” or so. If you can categorize it, it’s not working.

Now, maybe after this change it’ll be too weak, even for Engineers. Sure. I still think that before class-balance makes a celestial-setup a viable choice for every class that’s a bit early to judge, but fair enough.
In that case, buff it! Currently it’s +20% stats, make it +25%. Done.

But don’t keep it hanging on a nail which relies on the weird rounding of crit damage.

ThiBash.5634:

So overall, wheter you agree or not, it’s a nerf. And it doesn’t need one.

This statement is phrased very weirdly. It’s not a matter of agreement whether it’s a nerf. It’s basic maths that it’s a nerf. You lose between 7 and 10% of your direct damage, depending on whose math you use.

I’m not particularly bothered whether Celestial gets a bit of a beef up in the stats department to compensate for the crit loss. I don’t have a horse in this race. But…

Carighan.6758:

But don’t keep it hanging on a nail which relies on the weird rounding of crit damage.

This is the number one problem with Celestial gear at the moment, and it needs to be addressed one way or the other. Fair enough if they decide to beef up the rest of the stats on Celestial gear, but I don’t think the spread will die if it’s left as-is.

It seems to me like watching again the flamekissed armor thread and the fractal reset thread.

I can’t think of a valid reason for a mature player to enjoy another to have his stuff deleted or become useless, yet there are many even losing time to promote that…..

LordByron.8369:

I can’t think of a valid reason for a mature player to enjoy another to have his stuff deleted or become useless, yet there are many even losing time to promote that…..

Because plenty of us are more interested in a well-designed or well-balanced game than just personal power. We’re not playing in conflict with one another. Even the people I fight against in PvP, I hardly see as “enemies”. I don’t hate them or anything.

For the same reason as when I supported the removal of the old Flametongue and especially Windfury totems back in the days in WoW (being a Shaman myself), I support Celestial gear actually being celestial gear despite using it myself.
It makes more sense this way.

(edit)
Also, please stop it with the /wrist-ing.
Your stuff isn’t being deleted or becoming useless. You’re losing a tiny fraction of your total character power.

Carighan i don t think people will be trolled by wall of texts.

Its so easy you can t pretend you are demanding balance:

NERF is addressed to TOP used and TOP efficient DPS sets aka zerker and for PVE

Celestial is across the lowest direct damage sets used almost only for WWW

You are not fooling anyone…
Its quite evident balance is not involved here.

I won t even comment the part on buff/nerfs…..i ll just write that GW2 is not supposed to be a BETA.

Now i think is time to ignore you since its clear wich your purpose is

LordByron.8369:

It seems to me like watching again the flamekissed armor thread and the fractal reset thread.

This will always happen forever. It is the eternal cycle of MMO changes.

LordByron.8369:

I can’t think of a valid reason for a mature player to enjoy another to have his stuff deleted or become useless, yet there are many even losing time to promote that…..

I am an old, bitter person who revels in the misery of other people.

I just wish that ANet would devalue defensive stats in attribute cost per piece as much as they have done in their game design.

As I stated before, the 5/8 to every defensive stat in the game doesn’t make up for the missing 3/8 of every offensive stats in the game in application. It was only through the higher crit damage on the armor that the 30 day investment to create celestial armor was worth it. I could have bought Berserker or whatever else I wanted within a day or two from an AH / dungeon gear merchant.

The Celestial Armor set has 19% Critical Damage on it and if they do as they propose (and assuming 16 = 1%) it will only have 8.75% after. That is over half our critical damage removed because Berserker was too powerful in PvE.

Carighan.6758:

Also ThiBash, the way you talk about Celestial gear shows exactly why it needs a change to actually be all-stat gear. It’s not intended to be “bunker DPS” or so. If you can categorize it, it’s not working.

Which is exactly my point. The dps on this set, provided the build can make use of all stats, should be exactly midway between ultimate tank and ultimate glass cannon. The extra critical damage allowed it do just that (confirmed by many, many hours of buildcrafting with many different boon and trait setups). If the extra critical damage is just plain removed, it’ll fall short of the centerline and thus, in essence, be unable to perform it’s role: being a perfect midway choice.

The reason I’m concerned about this is because of the throwable turret trait fiasco with the Engineer. Normal turrets got buffed, but when taking Throwable Turrets, the replacement skills do not benefit from other traits like increased range. This essentially made the whole turret buff pointless. Now, it’s clearly an oversight and not poor intent on ArenaNet’s part. However, I want to help them take in all the variables and think of everything that will be affected by this change. I’m not saying they cannot do it by themselves, but millions of players will likely outthink 300 or so developers. If Anet posted that their internal testing/calculations showed that the damage remained relatively the same then I’d stop posting.

So I ask you: is it so wrong for players to want this issue adressed, or at least want to know whether it’ll be an issue at all?

Hrm, no.
You’re right, needs a dev comment. It might very well be unintentional. Like renaming Prowess to Ferocity, because I sure as hell hope that’s unintentional and someone just forgot that crit damage used to have a proper name already.

Not to be a snot, but a red really should just nip this in the bud or make a formal feedback thread.

Celestial gear is already very low on damage, I can’t believe Anet would go to the point of breaking their game and nerfing the celestial set more than berserker’s.

digitalruse.9085:

Not to be a snot, but a red really should just nip this in the bud or make a formal feedback thread.

Please +1 this post …
This is one of the cases where CDI should really be used…..

Xillllix.3485:

Celestial gear is already very low on damage, I can’t believe Anet would go to the point of breaking their game and nerfing the celestial set more than berserker’s.

to be honest i dont think anet is even aware of how badly the celestial attire is getting hit.

they seem to have tunnel vision on zerker sets, that they refuse to see the fallout from it on the other gear.

It really would be nice to get a response from this. If they’re nerfing celestial to complete uselessness with this stupid change, I want the option to swap stats on all my ascended celestial gear. I never would have made a whole set of it if i had known this was happening. I’d be better off with a mixture of knight’s, soldier’s, and clerics. I’m also curious what happens to cavalier and valkyrie gear now. It will be just as useless as celestial.

i needed some time to understand that data shown before doesn t take in account:

1) Fury
2) Food
3) sigils
4) potential precision equip added.
5) TRAITS

Once again theorycrafting led to wrong assumptions.
In the case of celestial is expecially used in conjunction with precision buffs/sigils/food

That will make REAL dps lower of 15-20% since even fury double the times you crit, making celestial the most nerfed set and putting it behind ANY other possible set.

Do your theorycrafting with this:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJAoYhImObzR5wjDAEFuYiQxDWUekzM2A-jkCBYfBkEBkIAIRtIaslhBp6KslXRTVTqWXDT9KISBwkwI-w

Tell me how much of a loss this build will have…..
P.S. consider the 3 traits giving access to permafury and +200 precision +20% crit damage.

P.P.S if you really want to go on and make celestial unviable give us a switch so i get knight -.- wasting 1000 gold ain t fun.
At least for armors/weapons that are the most grindy.

i’m hoping they buff celestial stats to compensate for the massive loss in overall damage, but i wouldn’t hold my breath. It’s been nerfed once already with the removal of magic find with no compensation. I just can’t understand why they would make the most grindy, time gated, annoying to obtain set so much weaker than everything else. Given the massive amount of time and money required for it, it SHOULD be superior to other sets, not exponentially inferior in every way. If these changes go through, mixing different pieces of armor will be vastly superior to taking celestial at all. They said before to the people who complained about ascended gear in wvw wanting it to be nerfed down to exotic level that they wouldn’t do that because it completely invalidated the time/effort people spent in getting their ascended gear. Doesn’t this completely invalidate all the time we spent getting our celestial gear as well? I certainly feel totally cheated.

Hrm, that build seems to lose ~16-20% crit damage from the change. That’s not too bad, tbh. I mean given the total of stats, should be ~3%-4% damage? That’s less than the original Ascended gain for most specs, and hey, you see to be ok with that one, Byron. :P

LordByron.8369:

i needed some time to understand that data shown before doesn t take in account:

1) Fury
2) Food
3) sigils
4) potential precision equip added.
5) TRAITS

Once again theorycrafting led to wrong assumptions.
In the case of celestial is expecially used in conjunction with precision buffs/sigils/food

That will make REAL dps lower of 15-20% since even fury double the times you crit, making celestial the most nerfed set and putting it behind ANY other possible set.

Do your theorycrafting with this:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJAoYhImObzR5wjDAEFuYiQxDWUekzM2A-jkCBYfBkEBkIAIRtIaslhBp6KslXRTVTqWXDT9KISBwkwI-w

Tell me how much of a loss this build will have…..
P.S. consider the 3 traits giving access to permafury and +200 precision +20% crit damage.

P.P.S if you really want to go on and make celestial unviable give us a switch so i get knight -.- wasting 1000 gold ain t fun.
At least for armors/weapons that are the most grindy.

You will lose about 12,85% of your damage -calculated with fury + 25 stacks of might + 25 stacks of bloodlust + applied strength (I,m using my spreadsheet for WWW builds ;p)

You will have 583 points of ferocity after patch (1% critc damage = 15 points of ferocity) which gives you 38% critical damage – your are losing 35% on nerf.

Will Full celestial gear you would lose 15% of your damage.

This were fast calculations so i could made a mistake, but numbers seems to be right.

If the current (disproportional) high amount of critical damage on celestial is the result of compensation for the loss of Magic Find it would seem reasonable to compensate that original loss with a general increase of the stats on celestial gear.

LordByron.8369:

i needed some time to understand that data shown before doesn t take in account:

1) Fury

You’re right, my calculations did not include Fury. Here is the new set of calculations with Fury in mind.

d=1+.5724(.63+.5+.3)=1.818532

d=1+.5724(.223+.5+.3)=1.5855652

1.5855652/1.818532=0.87189293342

Therefore, 100% fury uptime, full Celestial build suffers 13% overall direct damage drop, using the assumptions I cited.

2) Food

If you want to run a test using my algorithms with an adjustment in the precision or critical damage values for food, feel free. I don’t know which food exactly you use.

3) sigils

There are only three sigils which affect your precision or critical chance, to the best of my knowledge. Again, I don’t know which runes you use.

If you are using Perception/Accuracy, that’s kind of the problem with Celestial gear.

4) potential precision equip added.

Not sure what this means. Are you saying that you’re not using full Celestial gear? That’s a big part of the problem with Celestial gear as it stands; as I’ve said, it has huge crit damage, and on some pieces more crit damage than Zerks. You are not using it for generalist builds; it is used to pump crit damage and not care about anything else.

5) TRAITS

My calculations took into account bonuses from traits. I assumed 300/30%.

Once again theorycrafting led to wrong assumptions.
In the case of celestial is expecially used in conjunction with precision buffs/sigils/food

If you have more accurate numbers to put into my equations, then please, give them to me. You’re currently describing behavior which is used to exploit the current outlier that is Celestial’s critical damage.

That will make REAL dps lower of 15-20% since even fury double the times you crit, making celestial the most nerfed set and putting it behind ANY other possible set.

Except Fury doesn’t double the times you crit. With the build you cite just here, it’s less than a 1/3 increase in your crit chance.

Do your theorycrafting with this:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJAoYhImObzR5wjDAEFuYiQxDWUekzM2A-jkCBYfBkEBkIAIRtIaslhBp6KslXRTVTqWXDT9KISBwkwI-w

Tell me how much of a loss this build will have…..
P.S. consider the 3 traits giving access to permafury and +200 precision +20% crit damage.

d is direct damage
p is crit chance = .67 (with perma fury)
P is crit damage = .53 currently, about .23 after Ferocity (not going to work it out exactly if you’re not going to use purely Celestial)
t is trait line crit damage = .2
d=1+p(P+.5+t)
d=1+.67(.53+.5+.2)=1.8241
d=1+.67(.23+.5+.2)=1.6231
1.6231/1.8241=0.88980867277

Therefore about an 11% drop in direct damage, assuming the Ferocity change is accurate. Difficult to tell, as we don’t know what’s happening to Traveler/Divinity runes and you use the wrong weapons and a few wrong trinkets for the discussion.

P.P.S if you really want to go on and make celestial unviable give us a switch so i get knight -.- wasting 1000 gold ain t fun.
At least for armors/weapons that are the most grindy.

The distinction between Celestial and non-Celestial, when it comes to how grindy the set is, is trivial. Stop trying to defend your position with this.

Just one thing about your calculation – Trait, it will change for sure from 30% crit damage to 300 ferocity, so it will probably give 20% crit damage after nerf.

Holden.9273:

Just one thing about your calculation – Trait, it will change for sure from 30% crit damage to 300 ferocity, so it will probably give 20% crit damage after nerf.

I do not believe this will be the case as it will directly affect critical damage in spvp which they said they did not want to touch.

Sarrs.4831:

Holden.9273:

Just one thing about your calculation – Trait, it will change for sure from 30% crit damage to 300 ferocity, so it will probably give 20% crit damage after nerf.

I do not believe this will be the case as it will directly affect critical damage in spvp which they said they did not want to touch.

They also said that small amounts of critical damage will be more beneficial, so they can nerf the trait and make up the lose in formula, anyway it must give 300 like every other trait.

I’d really like a dev answer on this one…it’s not so much about the actual numbers, as it is about the ‘hey devs, did you consider this yet?’

or just maybe – 1% critic = 10 ferocity, so trait will not be nerfed hmm

Holden.9273:

They also said that small amounts of critical damage will be more beneficial, so they can nerf the trait and make up the lose in formula, anyway it must give 300 like every other trait.

I don’t remember them saying this, though it’s possible. If this is the case, they may have a non-linear model for critical damage in mind.

Holden.9273:

or just maybe – 1% critic = 10 ferocity, so trait will not be nerfed hmm

This would actually be a buff for Berserker’s gear.

Yep you are right, anyway difference between 20% critic damage and 30% critic damage form the trait is about 3,7% damage – this is not much and remember – they will change amulets/jevels to ferocity also, so they can make up loses in them.

It is now 4 pages. How about Anet throw us a bone and say something, anything?

Guys, just realize the fact that celestial gear was intended to be a joke. It was destined to be garbage, created by garbage ideas. It also takes a full month to create a set, which is another slap in the face. Salvaging the mats on it has more value. This is anet’s answer. Move on.

Trust me, I have consider my face slapped many times by Anet. This is my final straw. Moving on means moving on from this game, and any future product from this team.

As I said if it was just exotics, the consequence is not so bad. I just buy another set and move on. However with the huge grind on Ascended, Anet basically just wasted huge amount of my time by making these stat changes. These stat changes need to be done before they introduce Ascended items. If not they need to allow us to reelect stats on the set.

Sarrs.4831:

Why should Celestial have identical crit damage to Zerker? It’s not the ‘crit damage’ set. It’s the ‘little bit of everything’ set.

I’d like to see the ‘little bit of everything’ played up a little more. Replace the lost crit damage with Boon/Condition duration and I’ll definitely go and put a set together. Both Ele and Guard could make good use of it.

The only logical things to do is increases all celestial stats to compensate for the “lost” ferocity, to make ferocity the primary stat, or to add some boon/condition duration%.

+1% boon duration does sound like a good alternative.

I have no hope left about whole celestial/critical damage issue. Just look what anet is doing – they are bringing the balance from pvp to www/pve, because they realize that is much easier to make changes to the game, when you have only one meta. They are talking about ‘10% nerf on max dps builds", but in reality they are taking away about 35% critical damage from the game, so you will have max 70% critic in pve / 62 % max critic in pvp = that’s basically one meta, and if you add to it some adjustment to pvp items (they will also change to ferocity) numbers will probably get very close. What in means to us?

- in pure pve dungeon zerker meta, that’s basically 10% damage less, nothing to worry about.
- in www critical damage builds will probably not pay off anymore, why? Because you will be able to run a tanky build and have only 10-12% damage less than max critical damage build, or run conditions and have much bigger dps. There will be almost no difference between www and pvp.

If you don’t like being a bunker or to play condition damage, gw2 will no longer be a game for you.

Because of this meta change, there is no place for celestial anymore – it will be nerfed to the ground. They basically said it on live stream – ‘celestial will have all stats equal’ and this means nerf.

If you have any hope for a refund / possible stat change – you won’t get it, because they want you to grind again or leave the game, they don’t want players who will discredit their decisions, they want people who will fallow their vision.

I hope I’m wrong…

Ultimately they want players who will spend money. Players will only spend money if 1. they continue playing and 2 they are confident that their investment (whether money or time) doesn’t go to waste easily.

In case of Blizzard, the usefulness of gear or player possession doesn’t usually go to waste because of developer decisions. This is what’s good about Blizzard, they seems to care about their customers.

So far this seems less true about Anet. They seems to ban players easily even if the fault is originated by the dev team. This is why I am less hopeful if anything will be done to compensate for this pointless nerf. But if they want their future project to succeed they really need to work on repairing their image.

To fix this problem is actually really easy. They just have to allow us to reelect gear one time for all the soul + account bond celestial gear or possibly other crit dam gears out there.

bigmonto.4215:

In case of Blizzard, the usefulness of gear or player possession doesn’t usually go to waste because of developer decisions. This is what’s good about Blizzard, they seems to care about their customers.

Wait, what?
Have you ever been to EJ? Seen the constantly changing best-stats setups whenever a hotfix changes a number, and then went and got new optimal trinkets and reforged everything a-new?