As a main ranger, i find really frustrating that cloak and dagger works on pets… its like a free stealth mechanism on top of the already OP F1 they get when stealing from ranger.
Work’s vs Mesmers and Necros too. Not sure why you’d have issue with it, in order for a thief to backstab you they’ll have to use a teleport, otherwise they are just wasting time taking damage from your bleeds and using some of their initiative up.
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
It’s much more of an issue for mesmers (and to lesser extent engineers with supply crate/turrets). With that being said, d/d isn’t very good compared to d/p so there aren’t many d/d thieves these days and s/d does not use CnD so often as all that. Where do you find thieves that use CnD so often?
Also, the F1 they steal from ranger is far from OP..xD it is decent, but if you want something that is very strong look at what they steal from guardians or elementalists.
It’s much more of an issue for mesmers (and to lesser extent engineers with supply crate/turrets). With that being said, d/d isn’t very good compared to d/p so there aren’t many d/d thieves these days and s/d does not use CnD so often as all that. Where do you find thieves that use CnD so often?
Also, the F1 they steal from ranger is far from OP..xD it is decent, but if you want something that is very strong look at what they steal from guardians or elementalists.
CnD is widely used by P/D thieves too.
The steal from ranger is a free complete heal for a thief, I fail to see how it can be useless.
It’s much more of an issue for mesmers (and to lesser extent engineers with supply crate/turrets). With that being said, d/d isn’t very good compared to d/p so there aren’t many d/d thieves these days and s/d does not use CnD so often as all that. Where do you find thieves that use CnD so often?
Also, the F1 they steal from ranger is far from OP..xD it is decent, but if you want something that is very strong look at what they steal from guardians or elementalists.
CnD is widely used by P/D thieves too.
The steal from ranger is a free complete heal for a thief, I fail to see how it can be useless.
This said, I think CnD-ing on AIs is fine.
It removes conditions and grants regen. It doesn’t full heal thief.
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
It’s much more of an issue for mesmers (and to lesser extent engineers with supply crate/turrets). With that being said, d/d isn’t very good compared to d/p so there aren’t many d/d thieves these days and s/d does not use CnD so often as all that. Where do you find thieves that use CnD so often?
Also, the F1 they steal from ranger is far from OP..xD it is decent, but if you want something that is very strong look at what they steal from guardians or elementalists.
CnD is widely used by P/D thieves too.
The steal from ranger is a free complete heal for a thief, I fail to see how it can be useless.
This said, I think CnD-ing on AIs is fine.
Yes, P/D thieves..do you see many of these? I do not. I never claimed the steal from ranger was useless, I said it was far from OP. It’s a complete heal if he swaps to shortbow and uses all his ini on it, that’s not exactly free.
On F1 you can heartseeker in it to have leap finisher (if they shadow refuge + HS spam it, its annoying since they have the time to get their initiative back) and condition removal on 1 skill every 35 sec -______________-. And for the pet QQ, i am facing more and more thief that perma stealth on my pet and i cant do nothing about it. And, blind on stealth cripples me since the pet is always near me when no target in sight. For a ranger, blind is a bane since ranged weapon already have bug if you dont face the target. Therefore with the thief mobility, your LB knock back have high chance to never go off and they can add the blind on that its 60% miss chance…For the mesmer, i dont really see a problem since the dmg the clone/phantasm are so high AND ranged while the pet dmg is mediocre at best, even traited… cause of the blind on stealth. Finally, necro doesnt need their pet and are the best condition damage class…. so they dont need to target a thief to deals the majority of their damage.
It’s much more of an issue for mesmers (and to lesser extent engineers with supply crate/turrets). With that being said, d/d isn’t very good compared to d/p so there aren’t many d/d thieves these days and s/d does not use CnD so often as all that. Where do you find thieves that use CnD so often?
Also, the F1 they steal from ranger is far from OP..xD it is decent, but if you want something that is very strong look at what they steal from guardians or elementalists.
CnD is widely used by P/D thieves too.
The steal from ranger is a free complete heal for a thief, I fail to see how it can be useless.
This said, I think CnD-ing on AIs is fine.
Yes, P/D thieves..do you see many of these? I do not. I never claimed the steal from ranger was useless, I said it was far from OP. It’s a complete heal if he swaps to shortbow and uses all his ini on it, that’s not exactly free.
I assume the OP is talking about WvW, as there would be no point addressing this issue from a s/tPvP point of view.
That said, PD thieves are really common, and after the Ferocity Nerf they will be even more common in a few days. Seeing PD thieves perma trolling people by costantly CnDing on AIs is quite common, at least in EU Silver League. I usually don’t bother with them or just place a Stealth Trap to troll them even more, but still, they are one of the top3 common classes in the WvW roaming meta (top 1 being PU mesmers and top2 being DP thief).
As for the stolen skill, you can either blast it with SB or Leap into it with Heartseeker. And even if it is not “completely” free, I’d still say that it is very useful in most situations. Especially after using a Shadow Refuge, since you can basically wait the duration of the stealth to let your Ini go back to full after you’ve blasted/leapt the field a few times.
Woah. There is so much that is wrong that I don’t know where to start.
Blind on stealth is annoying for everyone. Especially mesmers, they can’t summon clones or phantasms if they are blinded.
The mesmer has 3 clones, so all the more possibilities to use CnD. I like how unbiased you are when you say “clone/phantasm dmg are so high”. Are you high? clones don’t deal damage. And neither clones nor phantasms deal damage if the target if stealthed.
The pet damage is mediocre? have you ever used a bird with a build to get 25 stacks of might on the pet? you might wanna try that…
Necro doesn’t need their minions? That’s a new one, go tell that to minion masters “Sorry that thief is using CnD on your main source of damage, you should just not summon them, problem solved !”. Are you aware that there are MM necros playing with direct damage? and yeah you kinda need a target to deal condition damage…
Woah. There is so much that is wrong that I don’t know where to start.
The pet damage is mediocre? have you ever used a bird with a build to get 25 stacks of might on the pet? you might wanna try that…
Have you ever actually used a bird against a target that never stops moving, or any pet against a target that constantly stealths, like say a thief? You might wanna try that…
Seems you guys might want to improve your reading skills. He said pet damage is mediocre, which I denied.
I didn’t deny that the pet can be killed and kited. A good ranger will know how to use his F2 at the right time and with 25 stacks of might, a bird is very dangerous.
It’s not dangerous if you use it like LostProphet though, and just send it in WvW zergs.
Glad I could help. Btw, this is CnD QQ, not “oh my poor pet” QQ. Wrong thread guys !
It’s much more of an issue for mesmers (and to lesser extent engineers with supply crate/turrets). With that being said, d/d isn’t very good compared to d/p so there aren’t many d/d thieves these days and s/d does not use CnD so often as all that. Where do you find thieves that use CnD so often?
Also, the F1 they steal from ranger is far from OP..xD it is decent, but if you want something that is very strong look at what they steal from guardians or elementalists.
CnD is widely used by P/D thieves too.
The steal from ranger is a free complete heal for a thief, I fail to see how it can be useless.
This said, I think CnD-ing on AIs is fine.
It removes conditions and grants regen. It doesn’t full heal thief.
Step 1: Drop it on the enemy
Step 2: Heartseeker spam
Step 3: Profit
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
CnD shouldn’t work on pets, period. Pets already have too many drawbacks, part of the reason why nobody wants them on WvW or PvE.
But since Anet balances profession meaningfully (and not just a couple of tweaks every four to five months) every other decade, use a spider.
Using a spider makes it harder for the thief to cnd, as the ranged nature of the spider makes them waste time walking to it instead of having a pet come to them for the easy cnd.
It’s much more of an issue for mesmers (and to lesser extent engineers with supply crate/turrets). With that being said, d/d isn’t very good compared to d/p so there aren’t many d/d thieves these days and s/d does not use CnD so often as all that. Where do you find thieves that use CnD so often?
Also, the F1 they steal from ranger is far from OP..xD it is decent, but if you want something that is very strong look at what they steal from guardians or elementalists.
CnD is widely used by P/D thieves too.
The steal from ranger is a free complete heal for a thief, I fail to see how it can be useless.
This said, I think CnD-ing on AIs is fine.
It removes conditions and grants regen. It doesn’t full heal thief.
Step 1: Drop it on the enemy
Step 2: Heartseeker spam
Step 3: Profit
Oh dear kitten yes please do this. I would love more free kills.
Also try fighting a mes with a dagger oh without using the clones to stealth… as they stealth constantly and come out with prot + block + regen. Yeeeeeaaaaaaa…
It’s much more of an issue for mesmers (and to lesser extent engineers with supply crate/turrets). With that being said, d/d isn’t very good compared to d/p so there aren’t many d/d thieves these days and s/d does not use CnD so often as all that. Where do you find thieves that use CnD so often?
Also, the F1 they steal from ranger is far from OP..xD it is decent, but if you want something that is very strong look at what they steal from guardians or elementalists.
CnD is widely used by P/D thieves too.
The steal from ranger is a free complete heal for a thief, I fail to see how it can be useless.
This said, I think CnD-ing on AIs is fine.
It removes conditions and grants regen. It doesn’t full heal thief.
Step 1: Drop it on the enemy
Step 2: Heartseeker spam
Step 3: Profit
Oh dear kitten yes please do this. I would love more free kills.
Also try fighting a mes with a dagger oh without using the clones to stealth… as they stealth constantly and come out with prot + block + regen. Yeeeeeaaaaaaa…
Ironically the method I mentioned is how I get most Rangers to back off or into downed state. No sane person expects you to heartseeker spam. With a 2K burst heal from the finisher, and if the Ranger is foolish enough to stay IN the healing field (you’d be surprised how many I see who do, or at least their pet does), I can do a lot of damage to you in a little time while full healing. Just stealth immediately after with Blinding Powder or Steal (Hidden Thief, I don’t go anywhere without 30 points in SA) to gain some initiative back before a backstab. Rangers are too easy when you’re playing a thief, unless it’s the legendary regen build, at which point it’s only going to end in a stalemate.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
As a main thief, I find really frustrating that pets shields against backstab… its like a free mitigation mechanism on top of the already OP regen, semi-invulnerability, dmg reduction and evasion they get from various traits and utilities.
As a main ranger, i find really frustrating that cloak and dagger works on pets… its like a free stealth mechanism on top of the already OP F1 they get when stealing from ranger.
Is it only me or it is a problem for everyone?
and I find it really annoying that spirit rangers and minions can attack me. I don’t have minions or spirits, so no one should.
That’s basically the logic that you are following.
Using CnD on a pet is fine, it happens to every class with summoned AI. What DOES need to change is the absurd amount of stealth thieves AND mesmers can have. The thief class needs to be revamped. They should up the revealed time to prevent perma stealth for thief, and then compensate for their loss in stealth.
Perhaps we shouldn’t be able to hit your pets, minions and shatters at all.
No more random backstabs to minions and other crap that blocks the way to your target.
and you don’t have a problem with pets following your enemy 2000 across the map damaging them without any need for input from you and also reattacking them the moment they come out of stealth?
if stealth caused pets to reset then yes CnD might be an issue, but until then i feel that there are more problems with the unshakable pets than 2 seconds of stealth.
and you don’t have a problem with pets following your enemy 2000 across the map damaging them without any need for input from you and also reattacking them the moment they come out of stealth?
if stealth caused pets to reset then yes CnD might be an issue, but until then i feel that there are more problems with the unshakable pets than 2 seconds of stealth.
You mean 3 seconds of stealth, 4 with 15pts in SA. which would be fine with me as long as it wasn’t being spammed so often. Heck, maybe even up the stealth duration if it means less constant stealthing.
Mesmers who think its bad due to 3 clones, try having 6 pets, 1 more that can spawn when you kill something and Ogre runes.
A possibility of 7-8 pets at once plus myself. They could just press C&D at any point and go into stealth. XD
(no comment on C&D nor MM, I say all is fair game) just saying, it’s worse on Mm. :P
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
It isn’t unbalanced given it is a short stealth. Rangers (I main one with my engineer and the thief is my third toon) has any number of ways to counter a thief in general especially with such high evades.
In fact, as a thief I really hate playing against rangers and engineers.
I would more agree if you limited it TO pets and avoided things like walls or turrets.
That seems odd to say the least.
It isn’t unbalanced given it is a short stealth. Rangers (I main one with my engineer and the thief is my third toon) has any number of ways to counter a thief in general especially with such high evades.
In fact, as a thief I really hate playing against rangers and engineers.
I would more agree if you limited it TO pets and avoided things like walls or turrets.
That seems odd to say the least.
Unless you’re fighting a regen ranger, running full glass, or are just bad, you should NEVER have problems with a Ranger as a thief, EVER.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Well, I play SoS too mostly as an Engineer and Ranger. Given that, I made a thief that is d/d and d/p which is full glass just because that is such a different playstyle. Yep, it is the regen ones when full glass that use lots of evades that mess me up so far.
I wouldn’t mind this so much if they made it so that a stealthed character (not just thieves) is always revealed when stealth wears off, even if they don’t attack anything. That way you can’t just chain stealth endlessly off NPCs that don’t avoid or structures (i.e. SM keep walls) without anyone having any reasonable way to counter you.
It isn’t unbalanced given it is a short stealth. Rangers (I main one with my engineer and the thief is my third toon) has any number of ways to counter a thief in general especially with such high evades.
In fact, as a thief I really hate playing against rangers and engineers.
I would more agree if you limited it TO pets and avoided things like walls or turrets.
That seems odd to say the least.
Unless you’re fighting a regen ranger, running full glass, or are just bad, you should NEVER have problems with a Ranger as a thief, EVER.
Not a PvP player then? Rangers can be quite annoying for thieves when trying to play competitively.
As a main ranger, i find really frustrating that cloak and dagger works on pets… its like a free stealth mechanism on top of the already OP F1 they get when stealing from ranger.
Is it only me or it is a problem for everyone?
Yeah, good thieves are kitten hard for me, because they just stealth on my Illusions. But I find that okay. Illusions (and other pets) can be really annoying for the opponent and they should have some kind of draw backs. And what do you think my feelings as Mesmer are about thief F1 skill on us? But it is like it is and I learned to deal with it. Keep at it and you’ll be able to deal with it yourself.
[ROSE] – Fissure of Woe
Chronomancy works, I am proof of it. Now stop asking me questions. Time must be preserved!
As a main ranger, i find really frustrating that cloak and dagger works on pets… its like a free stealth mechanism on top of the already OP F1 they get when stealing from ranger.
Is it only me or it is a problem for everyone?
You can’t be serious right. Why the kitten shouldn’t we be able to CnD your pet. This whole thread is absurd.
If your pets able to attack me and be targeted I should be able to use any skill I want on it. This thread HAS to be a troll. No one can possibly be this kittened.
Oh…yeah
Your pet shouldn’t be able to keep attacking me after I stealth.
As a main ranger, i find really frustrating that cloak and dagger works on pets… its like a free stealth mechanism on top of the already OP F1 they get when stealing from ranger.
Is it only me or it is a problem for everyone?
You can’t be serious right. Why the kitten shouldn’t we be able to CnD your pet. This whole thread is absurd.
If your pets able to attack me and be targeted I should be able to use any skill I want on it. This thread HAS to be a troll. No one can possibly be this kittened.
Oh…yeah
Your pet shouldn’t be able to keep attacking me after I stealth.
You are serious right? Why shouldn’t pets be able to attack you after you stealth? A well-trained war hound can detect your stinky butt in stealth
As a main ranger, i find really frustrating that cloak and dagger works on pets… its like a free stealth mechanism on top of the already OP F1 they get when stealing from ranger.
Is it only me or it is a problem for everyone?
You can’t be serious right. Why the kitten shouldn’t we be able to CnD your pet. This whole thread is absurd.
If your pets able to attack me and be targeted I should be able to use any skill I want on it. This thread HAS to be a troll. No one can possibly be this kittened.
Oh…yeah
Your pet shouldn’t be able to keep attacking me after I stealth.
You are serious right? Why shouldn’t pets be able to attack you after you stealth? A well-trained war hound can detect your stinky butt in stealth
Oh yeah… troll/defensive response from Thief #420
Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of stealth entirely?
It isn’t unbalanced given it is a short stealth. Rangers (I main one with my engineer and the thief is my third toon) has any number of ways to counter a thief in general especially with such high evades.
In fact, as a thief I really hate playing against rangers and engineers.
I would more agree if you limited it TO pets and avoided things like walls or turrets.
That seems odd to say the least.
Unless you’re fighting a regen ranger, running full glass, or are just bad, you should NEVER have problems with a Ranger as a thief, EVER.
Not a PvP player then? Rangers can be quite annoying for thieves when trying to play competitively.
That’s only if you try making a build to hold points. Either go for ganking people going after capture points, or make the lives of the ones currently defending a living hell.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
And for the pet QQ, i am facing more and more thief that perma stealth on my pet and i cant do nothing about it.
Yes, you can, you can swap to a ranged pet – since this is such a prevalent problem having a ranged pet on swap should be considered – or set it on passive. Though personally I think it should be possible for Ranger to completely stow their pets. And pets on passive should avoid getting hit better.
Blind is a counter to almost everything, at least we don’t have traits that trigger blind every other incoming melee attack.
Not a problem, IMO. There needs to be some drawbacks to having AI and other passive mechanics, or else passivity become vastly better by virtue of reliability.
Someone posted the idea off a shared healthpool. That would be the biggest nerf in the history of nerfs, considering how terrible AI is at avoiding damage. You could literally just drop some AoE/condis on the pet and walk away, and there would be nothing the Ranger could do about it.
